Lower control arm install coming soon

[Bob98SR5]

Hi guys,

After asking a few members like SeanOrz and GlenYoshida on the pains of changing out the Lower control arms and bushings as well as doing several looks at cost analysis, I've decided on purchasing OEM control arms and doing the install itself. So in rough numbers, this is how I arrived at my decision. This does not include alignment.

Scenario 1: Mechanic installed OEM LCAs
$780 for parts and labor. I am assuming he probably got his parts for cheaper than me, so I guesstimate that parts was about $300 and $480 for labor

Scenario 2: Bob installed OEM LCAs
Toyota of Newnan, GA had the lowest cost for parts + shipping. $165 x 2 = $330 + $30 shipping. $360 in parts. Taking this approach, I will be saving $420 on labor

Scenario 3: Bob installed OEM LCA Bushings
Most places are selling the Toyota OEM bushings for $40 each and require a press to push them into the LCAs. The press is needed and this was confirmed by both Sean and Glen. Well, this isn't the only hard part. Rust may prevent an easy removal of the eccentric bolt (My Mercedes was the same but not bad); removing the LCAs themselves require that you loosen the steering rack to allow for LCA removal, removing the bushings require a little heat and persuasion says Glen (doable), etc, etc. So taking this route would be about $40 x 4 = $160 + $10 shipping = $170. This is definitely labor intensive and requires a press, so while I'd be saving $610 over my mechanic's price and $190 over my self-installed LCA bushing, that $190 in parts savings is not significant enough to go through the trouble performing the bushing swap work.

Let me tell you first hand what happens when your LCAs go to hell: your steering becomes wobbly, the wheel will shake rapidly back and forth, and alignment is next to impossible. So impossible that your dealership will crank those adjustment bolts to the far reaches of what is normal. So I have put on a few thousand miles on tires I bought maybe 6 months ago (Coopers) and they look half worn as compared to the rear tires. Yes, so what I'm saying is that in my "Oh its no big deal" cheapness, I may have killed half the useful life of my tires :shake: :shake: :chair: :chair:
:shake: :shake: Only another $300 to replace those two front tires---its just f'g money right?!? :confused:

Oh by the way, the Cooper Aventurerrerereerrrr tires are the cat's meow. I really like them, they are quiet and did well in Pismo.

[Seanz0rz]

good choice bob.

I don't remember having to loosen the rack for the lca bolts to come out, but I think I did my rack bushings at the same time so I had it loose anyway.

[Bob98SR5]

yah thats what i read in a few threads on other forums and glen confirmed that the eccentric bolt or sleeve (maybe im confusing bolts here---know when I get there) that one is too long to remove without swinging the rack out of the way.

on another note: i did the poly bushing steering rack bolts a looooong time ago, still haven't finished that writeup. jeez, years behind!

once done swapping, I'll take out the old bushings and sell the bare nekkid LCAs. maybe we can keep it all in the UY community and the next person would get a set of LCAs sans bushings.

[Crinale]

I may be interested in your LCA's once you do this Bob.

[Bob98SR5]

I may be interested in your LCA's once you do this Bob.


Crinale,

Ok, cool. I'll keep you in mind.

[troyboy162]

how bad are your arms? If you can wait you can pick up some used OEM on TTORA for $30ish off a tacoma or 4runner that has been sased. Or try some junk yard arms.

Edit: I think tacoma might have bigger LBJ

[Bob98SR5]

Troy:

I've had 2 mechanics say "you should replace your LCAs". I've shaken them too, bushings are worn. Like I said above, the alignment dudes maxed out the alignment and my tires are about 1/2 worn after only 2-3 months. you can imagine how pissed i get when i get into my 4runner these days for being a dumb cheap ass

I'll check to see if the LCA part numbers are the same. I'll check out TTORA for spare LCAs. good thought, thank you.

[fenrisx]

Edit: I think tacoma might have bigger LBJ


Taco's do have a larger LBJ, but will fit a 4Runner as long as you also use the Tacoma outer TRE. This will cause a decrease in turning radius. You can get some of that back if you trim the mount for the sway bar end links. Or chop 'em off if you don't run them anyways... might get all your turning radius back then. [Note: I'm running Taco LBJ and outer TRE.]

[Bob98SR5]

Fenrisx,

Ok good info, I had no idea. I'll pass on the the Taco LCAs then based on your info.

[Seanz0rz]

Interesting, I didn't know that! Thanks for confirming that Cody!

[Crinale]

Is the LCA different? or just the LBJ? to me it sounds like the LCA's are still the same, just what's attached is different.

[YotaFun]

The lower control arms are same in design except for one part, the mounting point for the sway bar endlink.

I have a fresh set sitting under my box now waiting for me to get some new eccentrics and install them on my donor frame.

[Bob98SR5]

sonofabeeeeeeach. truck pulls three codes today:

PO300
PO303
PO304

Which basically means cylinder misfire. P0300 means you have more than one misfiring. The last number means which one is misfiring, so I have 2 (cyls 3 and 4). Just ordered and will be changing out the old wires and OEM plugs with new ones. Fawk, I changed the plugs about 4 months ago, fyi. I hope this doesn't mean injectors are fouled.

[Bob98SR5]

On another updated note, I've changed tack slightly. Found these poly bushings from the Toytec website:

http://www.toyteclifts.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=58944&category_id=130&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=72

$60 total with shipping. So talked w/ Sean and now convinced this could be a hydraulic lift-less job. So if I can swing this for $60 total vs the quotes/costs above, I will be a happy clam.

That said, my truck pulled some misfire codes today. FAWK!

[Obi..]

Bob, you're not gonna like what I'm about to type, but once you swap parts out, if the issue remains, consider pulling your heads. It's across both banks based on the codes. You're gonna want to look for those tell tale hairline cracks in the dome area between the spark plug hole and valve guide holes.

[Bob98SR5]

Obi,

Good or bad news, thanks for the advice!

[YotaFun]

Whoa Whoa Whoa, Hold up before even considering pulling heads!

Cyl 3 and cyl 4 iirc are linked through the coil pack (don't have my runner with me right now but will confirm tomorrow for you)
Before you do anything, swap out the coil packs and see if the miss moves, if it does your looking at a coil pack.
If not, then it is something else, I know you said that you changed them 4 months ago but how many miles, iirc the plugs in the 3.4l are to be changed every 30k, I know the 4.0 is that way.

Run some seafoam through the tank, could possibly be a stuck injector?
What kind of gas are you running getting? how many miles are on your truck now?

Doing an injector is easier then pulling the heads!

It is RARE that anything in the 3.4l heads go, gasket maybe on the 96 early 97, but last I thought Bob you have a 99+ Runner?

Just my .02, and the Bushings for the Control arms are not a bad Idea, but here is another, option, find someone parting out from a SAS build, get those arms cheap and put the new bushings in them and then this way the down time on your truck is minimal.

[Bob98SR5]

Yota,

Thanks, I'll check too. I have a 98, used to have a 99. Miles since last spark plug change= probably no more than 4 thousand, i have a short commute.

I'm running regular as recommended.

If it were more convenient to find and obtain a pair from a SAS build, I would. Not worried about down time because I have 2 cars

[Bob98SR5]

Got the bushings in on Friday, have not had time to work on this as spark plugs and wires will be today. I just changed out the old wires out last night to see if will have any effect. Time to take a drive with the OBDII sensor (Lance you butt pirate, you can keep the one I lent you now!) and see if it picks up the P0300, PO303, and PO304 code again.

[Bob98SR5]

Ok, time to look at the coil packs...

[YotaFun]

Switch coil pack two (middle pack) with coil pack 1 (front coil pack, miss should move to cy 1 and 6

[Bob98SR5]

Coil packs switched (front most and middle). Drove it around the block w/ code reader attached, no codes pulled. However, the stumble is still slightly there. If it doesn't pull a code while driving this week, I'll probably let it go for a few weeks more. Need to start on the LCA job

[Bob98SR5]

drove again today, still an occasional stumble here and there but no codes. I'm going to change out the plugs and see what happens.

I will also soak the LCA parts with PB Blaster. Tomorrow the work will begin.

[mastacox]

Your misfire issue sounds like mine! I'm starting to lean towards getting my injectors cleaned, I've already tried all of the "easy" stuff like plugs (2 different sets now), wires, TPS, MAF clean, ohmed coils, seafoam, etc.

[Bob98SR5]

brian,

oh man, that's not good news. the injectors aren't cheap, right?

[mastacox]

It's worse, they aren't made any more. :tapedshut: It's a real PITA to diagnose because one day it runs great, the next it's misfiring all the way to work regardless of throttle input and idling lean... I'd like to think it could be my fuel pump which isn't terribly expensive to replace, but that would be causing misfires on several cylinders rather than a specific two (or one).

I talked to Gadget today (he was kind of a dick) and he said that he's never seen one of these injectors get plugged or fail; I'm dubious. If one of them is bad he said he might have an extra or two lying around, but wasn't exactly motivated to find out for me. Other than that my options are try and find a used set of the 318's, supra 305 injectors (probably used since they're $125 ea. new), or go back to stock and get 7th injector kit ($$$, plus I have to re-modify my injector plugs back to OEM then).

I need to do a compression test this weekend but I'm really hoping that ain't the problem :loser: I might take a spray bottle to the wires any way just to be sure I don't have arcing anywhere, listen to the injectors with a mechanic stethoscope, check and re-check the connections to the coil and igniter, and do a free-air calibration on my O2 sensor.

Money pit! :hillbill:

[CJM]

witchhunter performance if I recall can rebuild your injectors for about 20 a pop.

[Bob98SR5]

cjm,thanks great info!

[CJM]

Welcome bob.

heres the site btw www.witchhunter.com/ (http://www.witchhunter.com/)

[Bob98SR5]

thanks, CJM.

[Bob98SR5]

Soooommmmbeeaaatch. Went to the gym today, took the 4runner. As mentioned up above, changed out the plug wires and switched the coil packs. No code but running a little rough w/ stumbling. Today, fargin' code. Guess which one? Yup P303 and P304 again. So again, this is after I switched the coil packs. So it is safe to say that we can rule out the plug wires and the coil packs as the culprits. So I am even thinking that replacing the plug might not even be worth the effort or the cause of the problem.

Injector problem? Chit, this really pisses me off b/c now i have two maintenance issues to fix.

[KZN185W]

Does this mean that if installed on a 3rd gen 4Runner, the wheels will be moved outwards?
[/quote]

Taco's do have a larger LBJ, but will fit a 4Runner as long as you also use the Tacoma outer TRE. This will cause a decrease in turning radius. You can get some of that back if you trim the mount for the sway bar end links. Or chop 'em off if you don't run them anyways... might get all your turning radius back then. [Note: I'm running Taco LBJ and outer TRE.]
[/quote]

[YotaFun]

So I am even thinking that replacing the plug might not even be worth the effort or the cause of the problem.


Not necessarily, Brian mentioned in his other thread that when he changed the plugs the truck started to run better, if you have them throw them in, its worth a shot.

Have you run a can of seafoam or any sort of fuel system cleaner in a tank yet?

Also how often does the 4Runner sit?
maybe your getting some sludge on those valves and they are sticking a little, just another option.

[Bob98SR5]

Yotafun,

Last ditch is plugs. I'll give it a go---again. Remember, I changed the plugs out not 4-5 months ago. I'll try the Seafoam though.

It gets driven alot when the weather is warm/hot. Lately its being driven about every other day.

[Bob98SR5]

ok time to get work done. plugs n seafoam (i think i have a can somewhere). then the LCAs. took a big shit, time to get shit done.

[Bob98SR5]

plugs done, jacked up car, pb blaster'd key hardware to remove...gonna have dinner w/ kafene and cooldry (they are brothers if you guys dont know). brian, i'll post up some links of others who did this job after i eat. later tonight

[fenrisx]

Since you're doing all this work... do you want your old PP springs back? :)

[Bob98SR5]

fenrisx,

nope! happy w/ the taller 99 springs

[Bob98SR5]

this s##t is for the birds.

Ok, i almost got the A arms off. I dont have a puller or pickle fork (dont trust pickle forks), so i gotta get one to get the damn steering rack end link off. damnit! time to the store. aside from that, the arms are almost off. but i did totally strip the threads off of the strut bolt. dont know why but it was fastened in such a way that it came off REALLY hard. time for a toyota parts store visit tomrrow. of course they wont have it in stock

[fenrisx]

Good luck, Bob.

[Bob98SR5]

So couple of updates i'll give along the way, step by step stuff:

Steering Rack
- loosen all the bolts or nuts, leave them barely on the ends or just pull them off. From left to right, there are 4. One is 22mm, the top one is 19mm, and the right ones (top and bottom) are 19mm as well. Use an extension or two with the far right 19mm bolts. The top 19mm nut is challenging b/c of space. What I did was fully loosen it w/ a rachet wrench until it was just getting loose. then i removed it and used a regular combo wrench.

- The end links on the steering rack need to have the cotter pin straightened and removed, so have some needle nose pliers on hand. Castle nut is 17mm. Here's where you use the puller to break the bolt from the A-arm


Ball Joint Bolts
- 14mm is what you need. Use an extension here too

Strut bolts
- Use 19mm both sides and use an extension on one end


Sway Bar End link
- I believe this was the odd ball one: 17mm. Easy to remove. Use a punch to break it free from the A-arm hole


Now I'm getting to understand why people say this job is a pain. My 1 bay garage is so f'g tight, I'm dying. I have to do my best imitation of Golum from Lord of the Rings to work in this tiny ass garage of mine. Well at least I should be thankful to have a garage!

[Bob98SR5]

run into my first big problem and i know others have had the same problem (other forum threads). its' removing the rear eccentric bolt. you can't just push this bolt out like you can with the front. its a real bitch, I've been banging with a punch and hammer and it did get the eccentric dial thing off, but not the bolt. see pic re what i'm talking about.

Anyways, its bashed now, gotta replace it. Anyone have some tips besides bashing the hell out of it?

[Bob98SR5]

I decided I am going to cut them out. I bought two of these bolts (they are officially known as "Cam adjustment bolts". I officially declared these as public enemy #1 part of this job. Let this be THE official warning to you all. Ive read other posts from others in more inclement environments stating that "these are the devil." What happens is that the exterior of the tube body freezes (rust) to the inner part of the bushing. Even if I cut the ends off, I still need to punch that damn thing out while the CA is on the bench vice.

[YotaFun]

Ive read other posts from others in more inclement environments stating that "these are the devil."


And thats why I am putting new arms and eccentrics on my next 4Runner.
I am not going to fight those, just cut them out and put new arms and eccentrics in, with some aluminum paste to hopefully prevent some rusting.

[Seanz0rz]

i would thoroughly coat them in anti-seize. I wish they were made of steel, so you wouldn't have the reaction between the aluminum and steel causing corrosion.

[YotaFun]

Yeah all that build up and the rust it just makes it insane, I hate driving my truck right now because the bushing in the left rear is so stressed to keep the camber in...

[mastacox]

I wish they were made of steel, so you wouldn't have the reaction between the aluminum and steel causing corrosion.


Aluminum and mild steels aren't a very reactive pairing from a galvanic corrsion standpoint; my guess is it's just standard oxidation from moisture getting trapped in there. Cromolly steels are actually more likely to cause galvanic corrsion on mild steel than aluminum is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galvanic_corrosion

[Bob98SR5]

ok guys, new update:

So I took the evening to annoy the neighbors and put the dremel to use. As usual, got dirty as all heck and my back is sore. Ok enough bitching. But wait, here's some more bitching: The bushings on the passenger's side are FINE. to illustrate how a bad control arm bushing looks, check out glen yoshida's video:

bad bushings on the lower A arm of my 2001 4Runner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZPJNstirPM#)

mine don't even budge. I stuck a 1/2" thick x 12" threaded rod in each bushing: no movement above whatsoever. :shake:

I spend f'g 2 hrs grinding away the tube that wouldn't come out. literally i ground down the tube flush w/ the ends of the bushing housing so the arm would just fall through. yes, its a PITA. now I have to find a way to hammer out the remnants. that is going to be a nightmare but at least its off the truck. I'm NOT going to change the bushings. I'd be insane at this point to do so.

Now I'm wondering two things:

1) How bad (or good) is the other side?
2) Why the F would two mechanics say I need to change out the bottom control arm bushings if nothing is wrong with them? Is that a mechanic's stand by excuse for not being able to align a vehicle?

I am really really REALLY irritated right now.

[Bob98SR5]

Heres a pic of what I ground down flush to the bushing's metal ends. Imagine there used to be a tube of metal there. Yes, PITA

[Bob98SR5]

Ok heres a vid of my bushings (one side). As you can see, theyre solid

Good control arm bushings on Toyota 4runner (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BCobkLzneQA&feature=youtu.be#ws)

[Bob98SR5]

I have renewed my faith in God. Three things happened in the last 24 hours:

1) In Pac 5 SS CIF playoff action, Sherman Oaks Notre Dame survives and beats Oaks Christian when OC's PAT kicker misses the tying PAT with seconds left in the 4th qtr (Final score: 28 to 27)

2) Down 24 to 31 with 18 seconds left, Devon Gardner QB of the Michigan Wolverines tosses a 50-sumthin yard pass that the Northwestern safety tips but miraculously, Roy Roundtree turns around and grabs the tipped pass, setting up the tying field goal. Michigan scores their TD in OT and then stops NW's RB butt cold on 4th and 2, thus preserving one of the most miraculous wins in recent memory

3) The eccentric cam bolt on the driver's side mercifully sliiiiides out! Contrary to other people who have done this work, I actually had to jack up the steering rack out of the way. I've read some write ups where people simply wrote "Oh yeah...just loosely unbolt the SRack and slide the cam bolt out of the way" F'G bullshit. Not on the driver's side at least. Even if you go the extra step and remove the sway bar like I did. there's no way you can pivot, lift up, pull down, etc the attached steering rack without jacking it up a little. So be aware.

So after removing it, there's only 1 bushing that is slightly loose. And do I mean slight. The other one is ROCK SOLID. Boy am I pissed. Anyways, now that they're both off (C-Arms), I'm just gonna have a shop remove the bushings and install the new ones.

On another note, the c-arm I removed above w/ the frozen in cam bot, I tried a trick where you hack saw the inner sleeve in multiple places in the hopes of decreasing the total rust bond by as many parts of sleeve remain. So I cut two slits and tried hammering the two pieces out. No va, amigos. So forget it, I'm not gonna mess with this monkey anymore. I'm gonna visit a machine shop (hope its still open) and have them remove it and change out all the bushings. I'll pay the bucks.

[Seanz0rz]

1 and 2, i dont know wtf you are talking about...

3, glad it is sort of cooperating with you!

[Obi..]

:lol: Watch more football bro.

Bob, pics or it didn't happen (the repairs). How about the Ducks@Trojans Game, boss had to pay me $5 on that. What's up w/ the VA-Tech player (MikeCole) that got carted off, is he OK or not?

*Also, it's PAC 12 ya old fart!

[Bob98SR5]

:lol: Watch more football bro.

Bob, pics or it didn't happen (the repairs). How about the Ducks@Trojans Game, boss had to pay me $5 on that. What's up w/ the VA-Tech player (MikeCole) that got carted off, is he OK or not?

*Also, it's PAC 12 ya old fart!


Obi,

Haha, I'm a big fan of HS and college, not pros so much. 1st game I mentioned is my high school (NDHS) and the division we play in is the most competitive one in So Cal, the Pac 5.

Yah, pics are a challenge. It's so freaking greasy down there its insane. I'm going to start degreasing everything now that all the parts are off. Time to get a few cans of grease remover and brake cleaner.

[Bob98SR5]

Ok, some pics to help explain how things go together and a good pic of what gets stuck. in the top most pic are two cam bolts. for whatever reason, the passenger side was the most affected by rust. even the bolts securing the sway bar was rusted. any guesses why?

The second pic is how the parts go together.

The third pic shows the eccentrics on the front end of each of the 4 control arms. As you can see, the inner part is slightly rusted. I decided to take Navel Jelly to it and inert the rust. I'll spray over with rust spray paint to at least keep it painted and sealed.

The fourth pic is of the replacement cam bolt. I seriously doubt I'll do this job again, but I want to make sure that I have fresh bolts that won't get stuck inside the bushing again.

I will be taking the control arms to a machine shop and have them remove the bushings and resinstall the new ones.

Bob

[YotaFun]

Bob,
The reason why is going to make you laugh.
The A/C evaporator drain is on the passenger side of the truck,
and it drains out right over the frame of the Runner right where the sway bar mount is.
Maybe it makes its way all the way down to the a-arms I am not sure thats really possible but I know that is the explanation for the swaybar bracket, every-time we have one come in needing new bushing we always have those brackets ordered as well

[4x4mike]

I was thinking the same thing. On mine it tends to run down the frame for a short bit then down behind the front passenger tire.I don't think mine gets to the suspension but it does get on the frame. I hate rust so it's always bugged me. I also clean and paint my frame so I'm able to sleep at night.

[Crinale]

:lol: Watch more football bro.

Bob, pics or it didn't happen (the repairs). How about the Ducks@Trojans Game, boss had to pay me $5 on that. What's up w/ the VA-Tech player (MikeCole) that got carted off, is he OK or not?

*Also, it's PAC 12 ya old fart!


Pac 12 is college! Pac 5 and Pac 7 are High School (My high school used to play in Pac 5 but as the division grew too large they split the Pac 7 off and that's where my HS plays now)

Oh and Shane - Your boss actually thought USC could beat the Ducks? HAHAHA :rofl: :lol: The only teams that have been able to beat them in the last few years are SEC teams, and that's only because the tough defenses they have down there beat up on the Ducks powerful offense.

[Seanz0rz]

I rather work on Bob's cams all day before watching football.

interesting note about the AC condensation. maybe it would be wise to extend that tube down and away from the frame?

[Bob98SR5]

Bob,
The reason why is going to make you laugh.
The A/C evaporator drain is on the passenger side of the truck,
and it drains out right over the frame of the Runner right where the sway bar mount is.
Maybe it makes its way all the way down to the a-arms I am not sure thats really possible but I know that is the explanation for the swaybar bracket, every-time we have one come in needing new bushing we always have those brackets ordered as well


Seems then that tube should be extended all the way past and/or away from the frame. yah esp the sway bar bolts were both rusted to all hell

[4x4mike]

I rather work on Bob's cams all day before watching football.

interesting note about the AC condensation. maybe it would be wise to extend that tube down and away from the frame?


I should do that. I've never looked to see where it's coming from. I know it's from the condensation but now I'm interested.

[YotaFun]

2) Why the F would two mechanics say I need to change out the bottom control arm bushings if nothing is wrong with them? Is that a mechanic's stand by excuse for not being able to align a vehicle?


IF the cam bolts are rusted or the sleeve shears, so they are going to say that.
I was trying to align a freshly lifted 4th gen a few months ago, and the eccentric was rusted to the sleeve in the bushing, so I was just putting tension on the bushing to get the truck to go into spec, just like I have my 4Runner set up right now.

[Bob98SR5]

yota,

good explanation, but what i still dont understand is how they determined that they were loose (as they put it). if the eccentric cam bolt thing was seized in the bushing, and they yanked it or whatever the F they do to determine looseness, shouldnt that make any feeling of extra play nil? i would say that it would probably feel the opposite (really tight).

[YotaFun]

I must have missed where they said loose.
That I wouldn't understand either.
Really tight or unless the actual eccentric bolt and lock bolt both sheared and the arm is just kinda chillin in there.

[mastacox]

My guess- they were having trouble aligning the arms, so they automatically assumed the bushings were bad.

[Crinale]

My guess- they were having trouble aligning the arms, so they automatically assumed the bushings were bad.


Agreed - I have had techs tell me bushings were bad when they weren't, just because they couldn't get the alignment right.

[paddlenbike]

I consistently experience the highest level of incompetence from tire alignment shops. It took three trips to Big O Tire before I gave up on their alignment schnanegans. The first alignment was following my lift where they said "your lift is too big to compensate via alignment." After hearing from you all saying it certainly was possible to get a Tundra/OME lift within spec, I took it back and they got it closer, but it still wasn't right. After the third trip I realized they were only adjusting half of the adjusters--they were using the ones on the front of the front A-arm mount and the ones on the rear of the back A-arm mount, leaving the ones inbetween at stock positions.

Last time my truck went to alignment shop, they aligned my 2000 4Runner perfectly...had it been a 2007 4Runner. :shake: (i.e. they must have taken a guess what year my truck was, rather than actually looking, and aligned my 3rd gen using 4th gen specs.) I'm not sure where they got that, but it had to go back to be realigned using the 2000 model year.

[Bob98SR5]

went to a local machine shop that i used for the biodiesel benz. for those of you who live out in the IE, Graves Machine Shop (now owned by CarQuest) is the shizzle. He looked at the damage I'd done to the cam bolt, looked at me, back to the cam bolt, gave me the "you dumbass" smirk, took 5 minutes to set it up, and pressed that bushing out in seconds. He didn't charge me for the work, but assured me he'd charge me 3 times the amount if I did the same :)

Here's the rusted piece of cam nastiness. Hard to see, but it is rusted good:

Now decisions, decisions: given the bushings are still in good shape, I can go with them and reinstall everything and be done with it or put in the poly bushings. Poly bushing install would require I pop off the metal retaining caps, then heat out the bushings, and then install the greased poly bushings. More work. Decisions, decisions.

[mastacox]

All I can say is, you want new bushings in there one way or another, either poly or OE. Putting the old bushings back in with all this work is a bad idea ;)

[Bob98SR5]

Yah' we'll see about how these damn caps come off. But seriously, these bushings are rock solid w/ exception of one that i would rate about a 9.5 on a 10 scale.

[mastacox]

Even if they seem solid, they've been oxidizing in the weather and heat for what, 13 years? You'll end up blowing up your 4Runner if 2 years down the road one of them starts cracking and you have to do it all over again.

Just sayin' :thumbup:

[KZN185W]

I would go OEM. I read somewhere of having squeaky PU bushings being used there. Also, because of the hardness of the PU bushings, the vibrations from the road are directly transferred to the truck instead of being absorbed and dissipated by some movement in the rubber bushings.

[mastacox]

My feeling is OE is the way to go too, heck they last for around 10-15 years before needing replacement...

[paddlenbike]

New OE bushings.

[Bob98SR5]

$200 for all 4 shipped to me PLUS having them pressed in (probably another $50 - $60) vs $60 for all 4 (includes uppper bushings too) and I can place them in myself by hand. choice is clear

[4x4mike]

Bob, you have convinced me to get a press. As far as I know my bushings are fine and I don't feel like servicing them but if I had to I'd like to know I could. I've always wanted a press and have gotten by without one but I now long for something else to stuff in my garage and hang things off of.

[paddlenbike]

^^ A press also doubles as a nice durable hat rack.

[Seanz0rz]

I usually hang air hoses and extension cords from mine.

[Bob98SR5]

Bob, you have convinced me to get a press. As far as I know my bushings are fine and I don't feel like servicing them but if I had to I'd like to know I could. I've always wanted a press and have gotten by without one but I now long for something else to stuff in my garage and hang things off of.


20 ton seems to be the bare minimum (I've read) to do such a job. Sean, can you confirm?

[Seanz0rz]

12 for me, but buy the HF 20 ton and get the swag offroad press brake kit.

[4x4mike]

12 for me, but buy the HF 20 ton and get the swag offroad press brake kit.


Oh yes I'd kit the Swag kit. Once installed it would be a great place to store my bike water bottles as I've been told they take up too much shelf space in the kitchen.

[Bob98SR5]

f' this shit going in as is. bushings are fine

[Bob98SR5]

truly, this was one of the shittiest jobs I've ever done. if you have a seized cam, you'll understand what i mean. i can see why people pay to have this done.

alignment on Monday. let's see if those jack offs say "old bushings" again.

[Crinale]

truly, this was one of the shittiest jobs I've ever done. if you have a seized cam, you'll understand what i mean. i can see why people pay to have this done.

alignment on Monday. let's see if those jack offs say "old bushings" again.


Good luck Bob!

[Bob98SR5]

Ok, finally. So after getting all the parts back on late Sun night, I had thoughts of having it AAA towed to my favorite alignment shop in Glendora, CA. They've changed ownership and my go to guy is no longer there. So I looked at an alignment shop on Yelp in my town and (gulp) Big O Tire center had the best reviews. So I left late morning today to avoid street traffic and with my crappy "I didnt even bother to even come close to previous alignmnent specs', I weeble wobbled to Big O. Tires were barking up a storm on one corner :p

Long story short, they aligned this thing so perfectly. I haven't done the freeway test, but it feels nice and tight and drives straight on the streets. Of note, they used a Hunter something machine which my fav shop in Glendora had too. They did not use the Haweka adapter, but theirs was a machine that used lasers and photos to align the tire position. The adapter they used had these arms (5 or 6) that they used to adjust the tires. Considering Ontario Toyota used the Haweka adapter and f'd up my alignment and make it eat my tires, I have the utmost confidence in these Hunter machines now, damn the Haweka adapters!

[Seanz0rz]

Bob, can you provide the shop details? I can't find a place that is able to do a decent job on my truck.

[4x4mike]

I go to a place that uses a Hunter DSP 600.

http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=9393.0

[Bob98SR5]

I go to a place that uses a Hunter DSP 600.

http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=9393.0


Mike,

Yeah I think that's the machine. I could make out the DSP on the signage on the machine but not the #. They said they just bought it a year ago.

Sean:

Big O tires in Rancho Cucamonga. It's on Archibald Blvd, just north of the train tracks on 9th St.

[fenrisx]

Long story short, they aligned this thing so perfectly.

Nice! I need to do like you and look-up a good shop with the right stuff to do this. I trust my mechanic for most work, but the alignment they did on mine after the LBJ, inner/outer TRE's, and new tires isn't what it should be. Looks like a little too much toe in..and they don't have any special machines. Pretty much by eye.

[Bob98SR5]

fenrisx,

yeah, it was good to have found a shop w/ the right stuff and good crew to handle the alignment. best of luck on yours!

[Bob98SR5]

Before I forget too much, I should summarize the things I've learned along the way for this job. To make things easier, bite the bullet and do the following:

- remove your front mud flaps. Trust me on this, it makes things so much easier to do work at only the cost of removing 2 screws

- Remove the front sway bar. The C-mount that holds the bushings are 12mm. You will need a combo wrench and a racheting wrench w/ extension. The one on the pass side is a beotch b/c of the exhaust pipe. Have fun on that side!

- Remove the steering rack: ok here's where I disagree w/ some people who've done this: just remove the bolts and take the rack off. Its not that difficult and lotsa people seem to make a big deal about removing the bolts. There are two 19mm bolts, one 19mm nut. You will need a racheting wrench for the pass side. The left most bolt is very long and 22m. The middle bolt is more difficult b/c of the hand space at the top nut. Once you have everything unbolted, you can slide the steering rack off. No need to unbolt the steering joint, but definitely support it with a jack stand so there's no undue stress on the joint. The hard lesson learned here is that the rack gets in the way of removing the rear most control arm bolts. I dont know how some people who've written on this job removed the driver's side rear bolt. Seriously. I had to jack up the driver's side of the S-rack to remove the bolt. Trust me on this one, the little time it takes to remove the bolts and have a free swinging/pivoting rack will make your job infinitely easier. Oh, you can remove the end link bolts from the control arm now too. You will need a small pitman remover to do this

- Now is a good time as any to clean off all the accumulated grime off both the sway bar and the rack. Also the bottom cross member support and anything that's close to your body. Expectation of course is that this is a grimy job, but taking a few minutes to clean these parts makes the job so much easier when you reassemble everything.

- You do not need to remove the lower ball joint from the control arm. Just remove the 14mm bolts. Extension needed here too on your ratchet wrench.

- Remove the 19mm nut and bolt that secures the shock at the point of connection w/ the control arm

Now you can remove the control arm adjustment cam bolts. By removing the bolts allow you to remove the cam adjusters and their accompanying front adjustment plate on the other side (i am not sure what the proper names for these parts are, but look at my pics in the preceding posts) Note the following:

- the frontmost cam bolts on the front part of the arms remove towards the FRONT of the vehicle. the rearmost cam bolts on the rear part of the arms remove towards the REAR of the vehicle. They are long and thats why you need to remove and push the steering rack out of the way to remove the rear most adjustment bolts. You will need a 22mm socket and 22mm combo wrench.

When you remove the cam adjusters, I know some people advise you to take pics and match mark the position of the adjustment cam dials. It's a good idea so that you can get close to what it used to be, but don't have any grand illusions that you will get it perfectly back in alignment. you will have to go to the shop to get it aligned.

If any of these cam adjuster are frozen inside the bushings, good f'g luck. 3 out of the 4 slid right out. What I did was to take a screw driver tip and tap it out w/ a hammer. It should be VERY easy to do this. However if the inside of the cam adjuster bolt is frozen solid within the bushing, good luck. What I did was I used a dremel cutting disc (the thicker ones, not the thin ones) to shave down the bolts on both ends. You're probably saying "are you mad?" Yes, i certainly was trying to hammer the one out! So the dremel was the only thing I could think of. It took hours to shave them down. once shaved down, the arm should fall out.

I feel sorry for anyone who has four frozen cam adjusters.

Now for those (including me) who thought about removing the front smaller plate off the control arm bushings and inserting new poly bushings, I don't know how you could get these things off. Many have, but no one in any of the posts described how they removed it. I tried prying them off, chisel hammering it off, but to no avail. If anyone knows how to easily remove them, please post up. Since my bushings were still in great shape and since I couldn't remove these front plates from the bushings, I gave up and just reinstalled everything back with a new cam adjuster and got the alignment.

Note on cam adjuster: I've posted a pic and part number of the cam adjusters. They were reasonable in price so I bought two since one of mine was showing rust and the other one of course was destroyed by rust and dremel'd off.

When I put everything back together on the A-arms, I put a rather generous coat of Marine grade lubricant/protectant grease inside the control arm bushing hole, on the outside of the cam adjusters (the part that slides into the bushing hole), and also on the inside of the cam adjuster plates. I don't want anything to rust and seize again for the next owner and this was the recommendation from the shop that pressed out the seized cam adjuster. Smart advice I would say.

CarQuest / Graves Machine Shop
This place is the shit. Talk with Jody who runs the shop. Phone is 909-982-1856. If you intend to replace the bushings with brand new OEM bushings, save yourself the headache, take everything with you and have him press out and press in new bushings. On my Mercedes he only charged $50 for both arms (4 bushings) to do that. That was 2 years ago. But anyways, he charges a fair price and he's super cool