3rd gen love, 5th gen junk?

[paddlenbike]

I have read some really awful things about the 5th gen 4Runners, but one thing is clear, even 16 years after the 3rd gen started production, people are still raving about what a good truck it is. So read these 3rd gen reviews:
http://www.cars.com/toyota/4runner/1999/consumer-reviews/

and now read what people are saying about their brand-spankin' new 5th gen 4Runners:
http://www.edmunds.com/toyota/4runner/2012/consumer-reviews.html

Usually people's automotive satisfaction drops as cars age and start to show signs of mechanical trouble or general neglect, but in this case, it's the new ones getting the poor reviews.

[Seanz0rz]

They really don't make them like they used to!

[YotaFun]

I love my 3rd gen, it has its quirks and needs its repairs but I still love it.
I love the 5th gens, plan on buying one sometime in the future.

To each their own, I am not going to rant an rave, thats for a few friends and a few beers, but its amazing how nit picky people today are, but honestly I don't feel your going to find anything from any manufactured made the way the used to...

[paddlenbike]

^^ That last statement is true. We had a really difficult time trying to find a brand new car that didn't have a stream of customer complaints. It appeared to us that new Ford and Honda owners were happiest.

[DHC6twinotter]

I kind of like the 5th gen, but only the trail edition. The 5th gen has those massive, cheap looking bumpers, but the black trim on the trail edition helps break that up. I also don't like the rear end design...none of the body lines seem to flow together, but I figured a tire carrier would help cover that up.

I think Toyota is still capable of offering great vehicles, it's just that they don't offer very many of them in the States. I'm in the Philippines right now, and there are tons of Hilux and Fortuners running around. In my mind, the Fortuner should have been sold in the United States as the successor to the 3rd gen. It's not much larger, has a body on frame construction with solid rear axle and IFS, 2.5 or 3.0 D4D diesel engine (on most...there are a few 2.7 gas ones as well), plus they look really nice! The front end looks to be very similar to the Hilux.

I love my 3rd gen as well, but I'd consider a 4th or 5th gen, or maybe a Taco or 100 series for my next vehicle.

[Crinale]

Just looked up the Fortuner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_Fortuner

Looks like an interesting vehicle, kinda like a 3rd gen 4runner sized Sequoia with a Hilux front.

Have you had a chance to check out the suspension? I'd be curious if it used a rear 5 link setup like the 4runner and front coils, or since it was made for ultra low cost if it used leafs in the rear and torsions in the front (or other combination thereof.

[Crinale]

Nevermind, just looked it up, looks like they use a coilover front semi similar (but not interchangeable) to the Tacoma/4runner, and they use an even more compact 4-link rear suspension than the 4runners.

[DHC6twinotter]

Yeah, they use a 4-link. The rear overhang seems a bit shorter than a 3rd gen, but they still managed to fit a spare tire under there. I'm not sure how they did that, but maybe they relocated the panhard bar or something.

I just noticed this on the wiki link you posted:

"In Japan, the Fortuner is badged as the Toyota Fortuner Sport or Lexus FX460. The Fortuner has a 4.6 L twin turbocharged with intercooler engine, producing a 418 kW (560 bhp) and 718 N?m (530 lbf?ft). It accelerates 0?100 km/h (0?62 mph) in 4.6 seconds through an 8 speed transmission. It has 8 airbags, park assist and cruise control. The car has brembo 16.4 inch brake discs front and rear with a five Pirelli Pezero Tires, light weight black coated rims and air suspension. The audio system has 15 speakers for 3D surround sound. The video system has a single 13.2 inch LCD at the front and two 15.5 inch LCDs mounted in the headrests for the rear passengers. The four seats have a massage feature and auto adjustment. The rear seat can be adjusted backwards to a curve angle of 160?."

:yikes:

Factory twin turbo 4.6!? I wonder how accurate that article is. Would be awesome if true.

[paddlenbike]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Toyota_Fortuner_%28first_generation%29_%28rear%29% 2C_Serdang.jpg/800px-Toyota_Fortuner_%28first_generation%29_%28rear%29% 2C_Serdang.jpg

It sort of looks like an RX300 on steroids. This is WAY closer to something I would be interested in than anything I have seen in the States. The D4D diesel would be cool too. Sign me up for one of these.

[YotaFun]

It sort of looks like an RX300 on steroids.


I was thinking the same thing when I saw it

[Crinale]

Because of its resemblance to the rx300 it looks kinda funny lifted :P http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/4x4-vehicles/219942d1257158366-took-fortuner-offroading-through-outback-fortuner-mod.jpg

[YotaFun]

Because of its resemblance to the rx300 it looks kinda funny lifted :P http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachments/4x4-vehicles/219942d1257158366-took-fortuner-offroading-through-outback-fortuner-mod.jpg


That looks sexy!
Manual hubs too, Sweet!!!

[Seanz0rz]

i want one so bad now...

[Crinale]

i want one so bad now...

I wouldn't mind them importing here.. It is a good looking vehicle.

[CJM]

Ive found any car these days isnt quite built as well, but toyota imho isnt as good as it once was at all.

235k and very few problems that I didnt create (lol) and my T100 still chugs along. If I wanted to buy an suv a 2nd or 3rd gen 4Runner is what I would want.

[KZN185W]

true.. the current model playdo 150 series is having body cracks. I just hope the 5th gen 4Runners (N285 series) won't have the same issues:
http://www.pradopoint.com/showthread.php?23174-Is-the-150-showing-any-signs-of-cracked-inner-guards/page2

quote author=CJM link=topic=10270.msg104597#msg104597 date=1352416265]
Ive found any car these days isnt quite built as well, but toyota imho isnt as good as it once was at all.

235k and very few problems that I didnt create (lol) and my T100 still chugs along. If I wanted to buy an suv a 2nd or 3rd gen 4Runner is what I would want.
[/quote]

[Robinhood4x4]

One thing I've noticed about the 5th gen is that it seems like they have better ground clearance than my 4th gen. My 4th gen is really low.

[paddlenbike]

It is a problem on both the 120 (4th gen) and 150 (Prado/4Runner) chassis.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj-cruiser/273310-who-has-famous-inner-fender-crack.html

[4x4mike]

I believe it is a problem on the FJ's as well. They showed up first and IIRC Toyota turned their head. There isn't much FJ traffic on Pirate but more than a year ago it was talked about at length.

Think about the pismo trips and the fender problems the FJ's have. This year was that maroon one and a couple of years ago it was that blue All Pro one. Jumping doesn't help but they don't hold up. My inner fenders make a lot of noise and I'm sure it's from jumping, I'm just lucky and haven't found any cracks.

[4x4mike]

I guess it starts as a bulge.

I thought this was funny. It's from 2008.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-fj-cruiser/671955-toyota-issues-recall-fj-cruiser-inner-fender-bulges.html

http://www.fjcruiserforums.com/forums/problems-dealer-service/33440-engine-bay-body-rips.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-fj-cruiser/1045562-buying-advice.html

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-fj-cruiser/780766-so-dont-buy-fj.html

[KZN185W]

so the 5th gen 4Runners (N285 Series) also have the cracks despite the frame reinforcement made by Toyota? not looking good Toyota :shake:



It is a problem on both the 120 (4th gen) and 150 (Prado/4Runner) chassis.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/fj-cruiser/273310-who-has-famous-inner-fender-crack.html

[Crinale]

Just wheel it til it cracks, then build an engine cage and wheel it til something else breaks.. haha.

[paddlenbike]

Saw this online and almost fell out of my chair laughing.
http://i.imgur.com/Ic61EDKl.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

I saw one in blue, it is amazing looking! I actually don't mind the new front end in person.

I saw a dark grey one and it was meh.

And I like Domo. He chases kittens!

[paddlenbike]

I saw some SEMA pics, companies are trying to fix that front end but it's not easy!
http://www.autoguide.com/gallery/d/843965-3/toyota-2013-sema-ultimate-dream-ski-4runner-11.jpg

In general, covering that mug is probably best.

[Seanz0rz]

UGH! no thanks...

[Robinhood4x4]

Wow, how timely. I was just going to post about this.

I finally saw one of those on the road yesterday. At first I only saw it from the back and the first thing I thought was "Oh, a lifted 5th gen...looks good". Then I saw the front and had to take a double take. It took me a while to realize what it was because, holy cow was it ugly. I usually reserve judgement on new looks because every new generation looks bad to the old generation, but no, it really is ugly.

[Marc P]

I see them everyday at work...I like them, but it took a while. It was the same for me with the 4th gens. I still think the 2nd and 3rd gens are the best looking, but the 3.0 sucks and the 3.4 is not a lot better. At this point I think the 4th gens are the best...they have a way better motor, more room, and tons of aftermarket support.

[paddlenbike]

I see them everyday at work...I like them, but it took a while.

Would you date/marry a girl that took you a while to get used to her looks? I wouldn't.


Now, let's forget for a minute that I just bought an ugly Nissan Leaf; we're talking about SUVs here. :-)

[Kryptoroxx]

Would you date/marry a girl that took you a while to get used to her looks? I wouldn't.


Now, let's forget for a minute that I just bought an ugly Nissan Leaf; we're talking about SUVs here. :-)

That would depend on whether the SUV was dependable or not.

But you're not going to see me in a gremlin just because someone transplanted a 22r under the hood either.

I think Toyota is making their jobs a lot harder than it has to be. Too many new engines and drivetrains out there. Toyota is in a developmental stage in their designs. They have for the first time really started making big vehicles. We can take the 3rd gen 4runner vs the 5th gen just for a quick comparison but Toyota only needs a gen or two with a new engine design to create another 22re/3rz/2tr line up where perfection is the name of the game.

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[DHC6twinotter]

The 5th gen has grown on me immensely since they first came out, and I've gotten to the point where I would really like to own one. I'd probably buy a 2011 or 2012 TE.

I hate the front bumper on the 2014 TE and SR5 models, but the interior refresh is really nice. I love the seats with the red stitching, and the rims on the TE model are nice.

I don't mind the front bumper on the Limited models, and I actually kinda like the 2014 Limited models. The two-tone rims are kinda sweet. I wish Toyota would have put the Limited bumper on the TE.

If I ever buy a 2014 TE, I'd ditch the front bumper asap.

And why Toyota did not put the A760 6spd auto in the 4Runner is beyond me.

[fenrisx]

The 5th gen has grown on me immensely since they first came out, and I've gotten to the point where I would really like to own one. I'd probably buy a 2011 or 2012 TE.

I hate the front bumper on the 2014 TE and SR5 models, but the interior refresh is really nice. I love the seats with the red stitching, and the rims on the TE model are nice.

I don't mind the front bumper on the Limited models, and I actually kinda like the 2014 Limited models. The two-tone rims are kinda sweet. I wish Toyota would have put the Limited bumper on the TE.

If I ever buy a 2014 TE, I'd ditch the front bumper asap.

And why Toyota did not put the A760 6spd auto in the 4Runner is beyond me.

The pre-mid-gen refresh TE's are my fav, but I don't mind the new bumper. We are opposites in that regards, I actually think the '14 limited is ugly because of the front bumper.

[CJM]

I cant stand any of the new stuff, everythings plastic-I want a damn steel bumper!

[YotaFun]

Stemming from a completely new topic:
http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Leisure/2009/toyota-pro-4runner-660.jpg (http://global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Leisure/2009/toyota-pro-4runner-660.jpg)

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE the new 4Runner and the latest, except for the limited bumper with that ugly ass chrome bar that goes across it.

However I will now take a new 2015 TRD Pro 4Runner, where do I sign?

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/61845626+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2015-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro-with-Tacoma.jpg (http://image.automobilemag.com/f/61845626+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2015-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro-with-Tacoma.jpg)

http://image.automobilemag.com/f/66546688+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2015-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro-side-profile.jpg (http://image.automobilemag.com/f/66546688+w1280+h853+q100+re0+cr1+ar0/2015-Toyota-4Runner-TRD-Pro-side-profile.jpg)

I personally loved the 1st, 3rd, and now 5th gen 4Runners the most.

[Seanz0rz]

Wish I was in a position to buy one. I really want the new TRD pro. I love that orange color.

[YotaFun]

That would depend on whether the SUV was dependable or not.
I think Toyota is making their jobs a lot harder than it has to be. Too many new engines and drivetrains out there.

The 4.0l in the 4th gen up has been a good engine (after the first few years of it with head gasket issues) and they just have been tweaking it.
they still have the 2.7l but its just not enough for the larger 4Runner now.

The 4.6l available in the Tundra is just a re-stroked 5.7l and they both are really good engines and have been very reliable.
I'd like to see a 4.6l in a 5th gen 4Runner.

Also with this new TRD Pro editions, I would have liked to see a supercharger add to the 4.0l and the 5.7l as part of the package.
That would really make the new TRD Pro editions Raptor Killers.

Dan why are you surprised about the trans selection on the 4Runner?

[YotaFun]

Wish I was in a position to buy one. I really want the new TRD pro. I love that orange color.

Its called "Inferno"
I'm in love, I was thinking of getting a diesel truck as my next vehicle to tow my 4Runner with, thats gone out the window I want this now.

[Seanz0rz]

My guess about the 6spd auto is the gain in MPG (and CAFE numbers) wasn't enough to warrant full dev costs.

[Seanz0rz]

Did you also see this?

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/06/nissan-frontier-diesel-runner-cummins-concept-chicago-2014/

I hope that forces Toyota's hand and makes them bring the D4D to the US.

[Kryptoroxx]

The 4.0l in the 4th gen up has been a good engine (after the first few years of it with head gasket issues) and they just have been tweaking it.
they still have the 2.7l but its just not enough for the larger 4Runner now.


I was just using the engines that I am most familiar with. It seems like Toyota has got a solid engine for each of the categories from your info....why doesn't it stick to those engines and simplify things?

Maybe its my love of KISS that makes me think that would work.

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[DHC6twinotter]

I would love to see a D4D 4Runner and Tacoma offered here. I think with GM and maybe Nissan offering a diesel, it may make Toyota re-think offering a diesel. It would be some nice competition against the Duramax Canyon/Colorado.

I would think the A760 6spd would offer better fuel mileage, and since it is already offered behind the 4.6L V8, it seem like a no brainer to offer it behind the V6. Supposedly, the case isn't much bigger (if at all) than the A750, and making a new bellhousing doesn't seem that difficult. Maybe the gear ratios aren't ideal for the V6….I dunno.

That TRD Pro Edition looks pretty good, except for the ugly front bumper. I really hate that bumper…lol.

I think it's pretty cool that Toyota is using the spelled out Toyota emblem rather than the logo emblem on the TRD Pro Editions. Looks a bit old-school.

[paddlenbike]

I agree that Toyota needs a game-changer, not status quo. If you really do your research on the 5th gens, you'll find that the quality just isn't there. Read consumer reviews, from KBB and Edmunds, to see what people that own them think of them. So the "it's ugly but it will last forever because it's a Toyota," unfortunately just doesn't hold. Given that, they need something, like a high efficiency diesel engine, to keep people excited about the brand.

We've already seen the Pathfinder turn into basically a Highlander, and now there's even a 28mpg Hybrid Pathfinder. It's selling like hotcakes in my area. We're losing the FJ. And if Toyota doesn't do a game-changer on the 4Runner, we'll lose it too due to low sales. I think a high efficiency diesel is the answer. Then you'll capture those people that want the fuel economy of the Hybrid Pathfinder, along with those that want offroad adventure and the ability to tow their pop-up or ski boat to the lake. Adding the word "Pro" after "TRD" and throwing in a skid plate, black emblems and nice wheels isn't enough, IMHO.

[Seanz0rz]

My worry has always been that the 4Runner will get canceled because of the Highlander. Now, with the FJ on it's last model year, and all but the Jeep Wrangler going soft-roader, the 4Runner has a chance to steal some thunder from the Wrangler. (I guess the nearest competitor to the 4Runner is actually the Grand Cherokee, but those now have IRS and I think marketed to a different crowd). If they can bring us a better 4Runner, with stuff enthusiasts want (and I credit them for doing so on the 5th gen, like the Trail Edition), in a package that is possibly a bit smaller, with less sticky-out-lenses, and an attractive exterior, I think they will win big. Offer a TON of TRD parts for it. They will be over priced vs. aftermarket, but it will still be beneficial.

Also, with the rumored cancellation of the GX (or moving it to an entirely different platform), it opens up the room for Toyota to bring the Prado over, tweak some sheet metal, and slap a 4Runner badge on it, I think it would do really well, as long as the next Prado isn't too ugly or too upmarket. Especially if it came with a turbo diesel engine.

Marc, you will never again get something with metal bumpers like we had. They just don't do well in crash standards. Best we can hope for is designs like the 3rd gen that made it relatively easy to match an aftermarket bumper to the bottom of the grill.

[paddlenbike]

Also, with the rumored cancellation of the GX (or moving it to an entirely different platform), it opens up the room for Toyota to bring the Prado over, tweak some sheet metal, and slap a 4Runner badge on it, I think it would do really well, as long as the next Prado isn't too ugly or too upmarket. Especially if it came with a turbo diesel engine.



In essence, yes, that's what we need. And don't bundle offroad things like KDSS with a requirement to buy leather and Nav.

[Kryptoroxx]

^ Well said. I would transplant a d4d into my runner or I would ditch my 3rd gen in favor of a new one that has it.

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[YotaFun]

Did you also see this?

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/06/nissan-frontier-diesel-runner-cummins-concept-chicago-2014/

I hope that forces Toyota's hand and makes them bring the D4D to the US.

Yes I did see that, and it will most likely stay a concept till Nissan see's how well the Cummins does in the Titan.
But the idea is great.


I was just using the engines that I am most familiar with. It seems like Toyota has got a solid engine for each of the categories from your info....why doesn't it stick to those engines and simplify things?

You can thank the EPA for the options in any manufacture anymore, or your options for what engine and trans are available.
Each configuration has to be tested and meet EPA standards, it ends up costing to much time and money in R&D to get everything set up, thats why the Big three have ditched even offering a manual trans and a manual shift transfer case in there options, it is either their V6 with an auto trans and t-case, v8 with another trans and transfer case, and diesel with and trans and transfer case (transfer case all usually being the same throughout the lines)


I would love to see a D4D 4Runner and Tacoma offered here. I think with GM and maybe Nissan offering a diesel, it may make Toyota re-think offering a diesel. It would be some nice competition against the Duramax Canyon/Colorado.

I would think the A760 6spd would offer better fuel mileage, and since it is already offered behind the 4.6L V8, it seem like a no brainer to offer it behind the V6. Supposedly, the case isn't much bigger (if at all) than the A750, and making a new bellhousing doesn't seem that difficult. Maybe the gear ratios aren't ideal for the V6….I dunno.

That TRD Pro Edition looks pretty good, except for the ugly front bumper. I really hate that bumper…lol.

I think it's pretty cool that Toyota is using the spelled out Toyota emblem rather than the logo emblem on the TRD Pro Editions. Looks a bit old-school.

Dan, it is the gearing and the power and torque specs of the 4.0L. the A750 is enough for it, I feel changing it to a 6spd, we wont get the nice lower first gear in the trans to begin with.

Toyota needs to do a diesel in the Tundra first before it offers it in the 4Runner and Tacoma, and we really have to see if the general public is going to go with it and how sales go for GM and Nissan, it could be great or a great flop. Toyota is still playing it somewhat safe in my mind and trying to get a customer base back after loosing so many from the previous issues.


I agree that Toyota needs a game-changer, not status quo. If you really do your research on the 5th gens, you'll find that the quality just isn't there. Read consumer reviews, from KBB and Edmunds, to see what people that own them think of them. So the "it's ugly but it will last forever because it's a Toyota," unfortunately just doesn't hold. Given that, they need something, like a high efficiency diesel engine, to keep people excited about the brand.

I have to give you a different thought on this one as far as the reviews of KBB and Edmunds. Honestly I wouldn't trust any of them, because to tell you the truth the general public has gotten LAZY, and have lost a complete lack of sense.
How much of the general public when they buy a new car actually read the owners manual when they buy a new car?
How many actually learn each feature of their new car and how each feature works?

When I was at the dealer, when a customer had an issue with the vehicle, it was because they didn't know how to use it!
I had numerous complaints of the customers front speakers stopped working, but they were perfectly fine, if they had read in their owners manual that when put into party mode the front speakers are disabled and the output to the rear and tailgate speakers gets bumped up so your can enjoy your party.

This is just a little example but I think it gets my point across.
The engine is good, the trans is good, the drive-train is good. The interior is good.


We've already seen the Pathfinder turn into basically a Highlander, and now there's even a 28mpg Hybrid Pathfinder. It's selling like hotcakes in my area. We're losing the FJ. And if Toyota doesn't do a game-changer on the 4Runner, we'll lose it too due to low sales. I think a high efficiency diesel is the answer. Then you'll capture those people that want the fuel economy of the Hybrid Pathfinder, along with those that want offroad adventure and the ability to tow their pop-up or ski boat to the lake. Adding the word "Pro" after "TRD" and throwing in a skid plate, black emblems and nice wheels isn't enough, IMHO.

If people want a fuel efficient SUV then yes go get a pathfinder or highlander. But its something that I still wouldn't take for that random off-road trip, or to tow with, or anything recreational for that matter. The pathfinder and highlander are just bloated oversized AWD station wagons. Also they threw in new suspension from springs to shocks with some added travel and lift, not just an appearance package.

The sales on the 4Runner are still up there and are pretty much the only one now on the market in its category, still body on frame, with a selective transfer case. Yes a diesel would be awesome, and a little more mileage great, but compromise might start having to be made to meet US emissions standards.

And even if they could get a diesel to work, most diesels these days in the larger vehicles, are getting worse then there previous year predecessors due to the Urea additive.
So take that into account, you're looking at putting R&D into an addition drive line, with a new trans to test that would put out similar mileage to the gas equivalent that we have now, is it really worth it in the end?

If Toyota can get a efficient diesel that meets the Emissions regulations with out the Urea great, other then that, that could be the reason that they still haven't done it.


My worry has always been that the 4Runner will get canceled because of the Highlander. Now, with the FJ on it's last model year, and all but the Jeep Wrangler going soft-roader, the 4Runner has a chance to steal some thunder from the Wrangler. (I guess the nearest competitor to the 4Runner is actually the Grand Cherokee, but those now have IRS and I think marketed to a different crowd). If they can bring us a better 4Runner, with stuff enthusiasts want (and I credit them for doing so on the 5th gen, like the Trail Edition), in a package that is possibly a bit smaller, with less sticky-out-lenses, and an attractive exterior, I think they will win big. Offer a TON of TRD parts for it. They will be over priced vs. aftermarket, but it will still be beneficial.

Thank god that FJ is gone! Toyota didn't really do a good job with that cause for the fact of the matter it was just a even more ugly 4Runner! If they had made it a two door with removable top option to go against the Wrangler, it would probably still be around and selling like hot cakes, but why by and FJ when you can do all the same to a 4Runner? Just for the look?

I don't see different versions coming out anymore, its just not cost effective for any company to do anymore.
I remember when the Rav4 first came out and there was a 2 or 4 door option and a manual or auto option in both, that was great, but its just not cost effective anymore. However I think TRD is starting to finally do more, its still gonna take a while to see as much from them as the aftermarket world.


Also, with the rumored cancellation of the GX (or moving it to an entirely different platform), it opens up the room for Toyota to bring the Prado over, tweak some sheet metal, and slap a 4Runner badge on it, I think it would do really well, as long as the next Prado isn't too ugly or too upmarket. Especially if it came with a turbo diesel

I'm lost here, isn't the current Prado the Lexus GX 470 just with some different options of sheet metal? Why flood the the Toyota line more? now if the ditch the frame all together with the current 4Runner and Transfer the GX/Prado body over to Toyota with less luxury options and more of what the 4Runner offers then that makes sense.

Also the 1KD-FTV is reported to have similar mileage as the 4.0l gas engine? Can someone confirm this. Would it really be effective then to be offered?





Sorry I don't mean to be an ass. I'm just trying to offer a different point of view and constructive criticism, if I came off as crude I am really sorry I did not mean too.

[Seanz0rz]

Currently, the Prado (overseas) is sold in the US as the GX460. There have been rumors that the GX is getting canceled after this generation (came out along side the 5th gen 4Runner, and shares much of the underpinnings) due to what I imagine is a "lack of refinement" that comes with having a separate frame and solid rear axle. The rumor has been that we will see something, maybe Highlander derived, replace it. I have a feeling the LX will die soon as well, but just a hunch.

As for the diesel, not so much about MPG but about torque. And, with Nissan and GM doing small diesel trucks, and Ram doing a diesel in the 1500, Toyota will have to do something just to match option for option. Whether this is a hybrid system that is awesome, a turbo gas engine, or a diesel, they need some sort of Gee Wiz power train to compete.

[DHC6twinotter]

I agree. If the GX moves to a unibody platform, I think there is a good chance the next 4Runner will be nothing more than a Prado with a 4Runner badge. And, I'm all for that, so long as the next Prado looks better than the current one.

I'm all for diesel powered 4Runners, but I'm not sure how much more cost effective owning a diesel engine will be. I noticed a few places in CA where diesel was about the same as mid-grade gas. That is worth it, but here in NC, diesel runs about 40-50 cents/gallon more than regular unleaded. If you factor in the initial price of purchasing a diesel, the diesel engine would have to offer a substantial fuel milage increase to make owning one cost effective. If the diesel 4Runner got 26-27mpg, I think it would be about a wash. 30+ would make it an attractive option. (this is all rough math on my part) On the other hand, who cares about all that? Diesels are just plain cool.

[fenrisx]

I dunno... I agree a diesel would be cool just to have diesel, but at the same time I probably wouldn't buy one. Like stated above, diesel is a nice chunk of change higher per gallon than regular unleaded most of the time (around here). Plus, the current turbo diesel offering in the Prado is at about a 100hp disadvantage to the 4 liter V6. Yes, I realize the torque is probably substantially higher..but unless that equals a noticeably faster 0-60 type times I don't care. I don't tow anything.. I don't have tons of armor and big tires... as I'm sure is the case with the majority of new 4Runner buyers.

I personally wouldn't like to see the 4Runner turn into a rebadged Prado. It wouldn't be a deal breaker, but I think the current gen 4Runner looks better (in trail and sr5 trim), and I would imagine the rebadged Prado would cost more. They're already expensive enough. :| Then again if the next Prado looked better.. read: more like 4Runner styling... then I might not care if the 4Runner turned into a rebadged Prado.

The only cool thing is if they brought over the 2-door variant as well... with diesel options of course.

Just give me the current gen 4Runner Trail with quality comparable to that of the 3rd gen. Throw in a diesel option for you guys.. :)

P.S. Toyota, the 4Runners don't need to keep growing in size and weight.

[CJM]

I think it was a mistake the enlarge the tacoma and 4runner, the sequoia was (99-06) the same size as the 4runner is now-now it and the tundra are massive. Im not sure how well they are selling, but around here no one really drives large SUVs or trucks anymore of any make unless they need them. Compare that to about 10 years ago when gas was cheap and everyone had something the size of a 4runner or explorer at least.

As for a diesel: Id very much like one,b ut with the new diesels needing all kinds of additives and stuff and diesel stations few and far inbetween around here I dont think Id buy one. Id honestly shell out the coin for a rebuilt 95-03 PSD F250/350 over a newer diesel

[YotaFun]

The only think I don't like about the idea of a re-badge Prado is the loss of the one iconic item to the 4Runner and the Toyota line, the roll down rear window.

I utilize mine often and would hate to see it go.
Plus I feel its what makes the 4Runner a 4Runner, also it interesting, I have talked to a few jeep guys at work when considering an SUV (most of them drive tuners and have the jeep for 'bad weather') say that they love the feature of the roll down rear window but couldn't afford a 4Runner, whcih around here the 3rd gens in decent condition with tons of miles still go for 3-5k while most of them picked up a cheap cherokee for 500-1k.

[paddlenbike]

Dogs love the roll down rear window, and so do humans that go to Home Depot a lot.

[Seanz0rz]

I think that would be one of the many carryover features. Even if it remains with a swing out door, the window will likely still roll down.

[YotaFun]

Dogs love the roll down rear window, and so do humans that go to Home Depot a lot.

But I don't have a dog, and I don't go to Home Depot :-P


I think that would be one of the many carryover features. Even if it remains with a swing out door, the window will likely still roll down.

That would be awesome, or a tail gate again, I would really like that

[Seanz0rz]

My issue with the 2nd gen tail gate is the requirement to roll down the window to open the rear.

[paddlenbike]

I like having the hatch with the roll down window. I have cooked dinner under the hatch a couple of times while raining and it was nice to have the coverage. I'm not a fan of the swing-out gates and the 2nd gen is a little bit of a pain rolling down the window to get the gate open. But the FJ100s like Lance's have the best of everything--it still has the power window and combines a 1/3rd tailgate with a 2/3rds hatch. It's perfect.

[Seanz0rz]

Lc doesn't have a roll down rear, does it? I like that setup.

Our Honda has the lift glass and the swing out tailgate. Makes getting to the back hard when parallel parked. That's why I chose barn door swingouts instead of one long one.

[paddlenbike]

Lc doesn't have a roll down rear, does it? I like that setup.



Hmm, maybe you're right, maybe it just hinges open like a Pathfinder. Lance would know.

I saw a post over the weekend on one of the forums from a guy that has a 3rd and 4th gen and decided to add a 5th gen to his collection--he had a laundry list of things he hated about it. His conclusion was he wished he never bought the 5th gen. For the life of me I can't find the thread, but for some reason I had saved the driveway photo.
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e311/code2medic/20140205_165920.jpg

[Good Times]

The 100 series rear hatch is a fixed window with a drop down tailgate. Sometimes I wish the rear window did go down but honestly I haven't had the need to open have that rear window open/down/missing so it's not a biggie. Even when I was driving the 4runner (those rare times) I never opened that rear window so go figure.

I do love the tailgate though. It's perfect to sit down and chill, prep, clean work bench whatever you want to use it for. :) Wished all runners came w/ a tailgate (bummer it got lost when the 3rd gens rolled into action).

As for the new TRD 5th gen... umm yeah I'll just take a regular SR5 and mod everything myself and save a few bucks (and the funky rust paint).

[fenrisx]

I would trade my 3rd gen to the 5th gen guy who hated it. :D

[paddlenbike]

I would trade my 3rd gen to the 5th gen guy who hated it. :D

Would you really?
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/161877-2010-4r-4-0-v6-multiple-significant-oil-leaks.html

[fenrisx]

Would you really?
http://www.toyota-4runner.org/5th-gen-t4rs/161877-2010-4r-4-0-v6-multiple-significant-oil-leaks.html

Well I meant a straight up, even trade... so, yes. :)

If I could afford it, I would get a new 4Runner (although I'd probably be just as tempted to get either a new Tacoma or Subaru STI instead.)

[I would keep my 3rd gen too though.]

[Kryptoroxx]

I can't say that I would do that. I would get an auto limited 4x4 for the wife though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[YotaFun]

I'd still get a new one.

In my time at Toyota (the 5th gen just came out when I started), I had never seen one with an oil leak issue like that gentleman is describing for his, not saying it isn't possible, before I left were were just starting to see some of the older style 4.0l start showing valve cover seepage issues.

This still sounds like one isolated case to me, which can happen among any line.
Heck, a friend of mine just threw a rod on his 99 4Runner with 109k that was meticulously taken car of, flukes will happen.

The labor time that the dealer is stating sounds about accurate to me if they want to take the engine out, apart, clean it, then reseal it.

We had an incident where a customer brought in there 4Runner that had roughly 40k miles on it customer was explaining it was running 'sluggish'. Well after reviewing the history of the truck on Toyota's national network and talking to the customer, it was determined the truck hadn't had an oil change yet! The tech did an oil change and it was determined the engine was done.
New short block, rebuilt head and all new gaskets.
Yes I realize this is due to customer stupidity but here is my point:
To get the torque converter bolts out alone you have to remove the exhaust manifold to access the starter to remove that so you can access the torque converter bolts. Its the steps you have to take to do the job that make the process much longer now then older days.

[DHC6twinotter]

You have to take the exhaust manifold off to access the starter on the 4.0? Sounds like a pain.

[YotaFun]

Yes Dan, the 4.0l, 5.7l, and 4.6l are all that way.
Since there is no access port on the bell housing to access the torque converter bolts the starter has to come out.

[4x4mike]

Did you also see this?

http://www.autoblog.com/2014/02/06/nissan-frontier-diesel-runner-cummins-concept-chicago-2014/

I hope that forces Toyota's hand and makes them bring the D4D to the US.

No D4D but it's a diesel. 4.0 in the Frontier and a 5.0 in the Titan and Tundra.
http://www.imotortimes.com/2016-toyota-tundra-share-its-50l-cummins-diesel-next-nissan-titan-report-24638

[paddlenbike]

No D4D but it's a diesel. 4.0 in the Frontier and a 5.0 in the Titan and Tundra.
http://www.imotortimes.com/2016-toyota-tundra-share-its-50l-cummins-diesel-next-nissan-titan-report-24638

That should be a hot seller.

[Kryptoroxx]

I gotta say that Toyota is making the right choice when it comes to diesel engines. Toyota makes a good diesel and all of us that love and follow toyota know this well....but the rest of America doesn't. Cummins is a pretty good diesel engine imo and probably the best of the light/medium duty trucks. CAT makes an amazing diesel but they do the heavy truck market pretty exclusively. I don't know of a CAT engine that would fit in a Tundra off the top of my head.

[Seanz0rz]

I really hope that actually happens. It will force Ford's hand with the new F150, too, and make them shove that inline 5 from the new Transit into the F150.

For me, I'm not sure I could justify the extra cost of diesel, both upfront cost and lifetime of fuel and service. BUT! it is incredibly important to have options. The more options for the public, the better.

I think most have forgotten about the Oldsmobile Diesel Debacle (or ODD for short) of the 80's, and I think there are some rose tinted memories of diesel Rabbits and Vanagon (even if they were slow).

[YotaFun]

No D4D but it's a diesel. 4.0 in the Frontier and a 5.0 in the Titan and Tundra.
http://www.imotortimes.com/2016-toyota-tundra-share-its-50l-cummins-diesel-next-nissan-titan-report-24638

I hope to god they change the frame design of the Tundra if they plan to add a diesel to it.


I gotta say that Toyota is making the right choice when it comes to diesel engines. Toyota makes a good diesel and all of us that love and follow toyota know this well....but the rest of America doesn't. Cummins is a pretty good diesel engine imo and probably the best of the light/medium duty trucks. CAT makes an amazing diesel but they do the heavy truck market pretty exclusively. I don't know of a CAT engine that would fit in a Tundra off the top of my head.

I love the Cummins engines, don't get me wrong, but I am curious to see how this V model will do.
The inline 5.9l motor was bullet proof practically (except for one block series).
Also the idea of that they are going to run with this diesel and then possibly change over to there own kinda strikes me as odd and in my mind not a very good idea.
If they are going to run with a diesel do it with there own and make it so they give a different option then everyone else.

Why is ever company now going to bed with each other to make a product, I know they have done this before but it just seems now more then ever its happening more often....


I really hope that actually happens. It will force Ford's hand with the new F150, too, and make them shove that inline 5 from the new Transit into the F150.

For me, I'm not sure I could justify the extra cost of diesel, both upfront cost and lifetime of fuel and service. BUT! it is incredibly important to have options. The more options for the public, the better.

I think most have forgotten about the Oldsmobile Diesel Debacle (or ODD for short) of the 80's, and I think there are some rose tinted memories of diesel Rabbits and Vanagon (even if they were slow).

I would love to see that diesel put into the F-150, that would be awesome!

I agree with you on the cost Sean, Options are great, but hopefully it doesn't kill the company....

and wait, hold the phone, Oldsmobile had a Diesel? How the hell did I not know about this! lol

[Seanz0rz]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldsmobile_Diesel_engine

Infamous describes it well. It spoiled diesel engines in cars for an entire generation of shoppers.

Made the list of worst auto engines of all time:
http://www.popularhotrodding.com/features/0408phr_worst_automobile_engines/

[YotaFun]

Interesting to know.
that sucks but I think it would still be cool to have one.
I thought I was a huge Oldsmobile fan, but I guess I wasn't the biggest fan.....

[Seanz0rz]

Strange bit of history indeed. In all reality, it wasn't entirely Olds' fault for the engine being so bad. But, it gets the blame. People who had one, or knew someone who did, thought diesel engines were junk and only good for tractors. It ruined the perception of diesel powered cars, especially small cars. People are coming around now, but it won't be until Honda, Toyota, and Ford bring small, diesel cars to the US for people to really think they are amazing. You need companies allied with quality and innovation to bring them here to sell them to Americans. VW tries, but their quality record is not as high as they wish it was.

[CJM]

They basically converted a gas engine to run on diesel in many cases (4.3L and 350 as well as others) a VERY stupid move by GM. They also had such horrible power you might be able to ride a bike faster off the line.

Course GM is known to do such stupid things all the time its not even funny. About all they can reliably build is trucks.

[Kryptoroxx]

Call me an ignoramus on diesel engines but isn't the power stroke basically the same thing?? Or did they bore the cylinders out

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[Seanz0rz]

For this discussion, the only change between gas and diesel engines is compression ratio. Gas engines are right around 10, Diesel engines are about 16.

Commonly, to increase compression ratio, the stroke is lengthened and also combustion chamber size is decreased. Since there is no spark plug, the combustion chamber can be made very small.

The Olds Diesel wasn't exactly a converted gas engine, but it was very close. The blocks will actually last a long time, but a combination of poor fuel filtering and the ability of water to enter the fuel more easily than other designs, coupled with badly designed and installed heads, head gaskets, studs, etc. were the downfall of the engine. Also, the early 80's found worse processing of the fuel which caused further failures in an already susceptible engine.

Also, for the record, it is a HORRIBLE IDEA to put a diesel in a Caddy. WTF were you thinking GM?

[DHC6twinotter]

I wish Toyota would just put the 4.5L twin turbo diesel from the 200 series LC in the Tundra.

Cummins in a Toyota sounds kinda funny, imho.

[CJM]

GM like I said makes alot of stupid decisions. IE wtf were they thinking when they made the caddy allante... Those old chevy diesels were so poor that the basically couldnt give them away after awhile, I dont think I have ever seen one on the road my entire life. Actually there arent many 80's chevys running around at all, or early 90's round here. Plenty of fords tho and of course many imports lol.

Course the caddy northstar engines are horrible too..

[DHC6twinotter]

I think most of GM's pushrod engines are pretty good. My dad's '94 Buick Regal with the 3.8 V6 has 300k on it, and it still runs pretty good. The overhead cam engines all seem to be junk though.

[CJM]

I think most of GM's pushrod engines are pretty good. My dad's '94 Buick Regal with the 3.8 V6 has 300k on it, and it still runs pretty good. The overhead cam engines all seem to be junk though.
Brother had same car, got it with 40k on it and it literally fell apart. He did have the 3.1L engine and blew 3 head gaskets (2nd time we went with a new head and 3rd time we junked it). Junked it at 160k, all sorts of things kept failing. The best was the passlock key system where you can start the car b/c it doesnt recognize the chip. Dad had a 97 and that fell apart too, aunt had a 98, same deal.

Im not a fan of GM cars, IDK how they build their trucks but somehow they hold up and drive nicer than the fords and dodges. We have an entire fleet of chevy/GMC 3/4 ton vans and trucks at work and no real issues.

[YotaFun]

I wish Toyota would just put the 4.5L twin turbo diesel from the 200 series LC in the Tundra.

Cummins in a Toyota sounds kinda funny, imho.

I would love to see a Toyota Diesel Engine option before they partner with another company to put an engine in.
Especially since this is a newer designed engine by Cummins and iirc the first "V" engine instead of an inline engine.
It will be interesting to see how it will do, hopefully it won't be a flop like the ford 6.0 and 6.4...


And as far as GM is concerned I like a lot of the olds line.
My stepdad grew up with the muscle car era of the Olds Cutlass, while he never had a 442 (which I would like to restore one for him as a retirement present) they were awesome.
My experience with olds was the 95 Cutlass Supreme we had. It had the 3.1l V6. Which wasn't the greatest but it wasn't completely horrible.
It bent a push rod at around 121k and blew the head gasket at 151k, other then that the car ran really strong, interior wise all it needed was a driver window switch and that was it. I miss that car lol

[DHC6twinotter]

CJM, the "x engines" were all pretty bad, and those are the main exceptions to my thought that the GM pushrod engines are pretty good. My sister had a Oldsmobile with a 3.1, and she had a lot of trouble with it. The 2.8 in the S-10, etc, were notoriously bad as well. The 3.4s had common intake manifold gasket issues as well. We sold a lot of those gaskets when I worked at a Chevy dealership. Those gaskets, and the tail light circuit boards for the Silverados were what we sold the most of.

I wouldn't buy a new GM car (or Chrysler) either, but the new GMC trucks are pretty sweet.

Sorry, I'm going off topic here...

[CJM]

Yea the old pushrod 350 and 4.3L are actually dang good engines. At work we have all 2500 chevys with the 6.0L and besides oil consumption on the 11, 12 and 13 we have (which is a known problem) nothing really has busted. the old pos 03 and 06 vans wont die lol. I still like the 350 better. Been looking for a clean 03-07 silverado mostly b/c I need a larger truck and the v8, but if I could find a clean older tundra Id be happy.

Is it worth holding out for the 05-06 tundras with the 5 speed and higher powered engine? I could live with the 4 speed but the extra 40+ hp is sweet.

[Seanz0rz]

I saw a limited drive by today. I am not a fan of the chrome bar across the front. Looks weird.

[DHC6twinotter]

I must be the only one that likes the Limited models…lol. Actually, what I think would look pretty good is to use the limited bumper on a trail edition. Paint the chrome part black and trim up the bottom of the bumper a bit (limited bumper is much lower than SR5 and TE).



Is it worth holding out for the 05-06 tundras with the 5 speed and higher powered engine? I could live with the 4 speed but the extra 40+ hp is sweet.

I'd go with the '05 or '06.

[Seanz0rz]

I would agree on the blacked out chrome on the limited bumper.

I don't think I would worry all that much about the front bumper though, I would rip it off and put on something made of steel.

05 or 06 Tundras are nice! I specifically like the double cab with the drop down rear window.

[CJM]

05 or 06 Tundras are nice! I specifically like the double cab with the drop down rear window.
I liked the dbl cabs, but heard some bad stories about problems with the back window. Plus I dont need 4 doors-I dont want to take people with me lol. Although I do wish the bed height of the x-cab was the same as the dbl cab.

[YotaFun]

I saw a limited drive by today. I am not a fan of the chrome bar across the front. Looks weird.

I am with you on this Sean, I can not stand that chrome bar!

[paddlenbike]

It's funny, I hated the front end on the 2010 when it came out, but in comparison to the horrendous 2014 front end, the 2010 is starting to look okay, haha.

[paddlenbike]

I am with you on this Sean, I can not stand that chrome bar!

This is just for you Avy! lol

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachments/5th-gen-t4rs/108085d1389984396-2014-satoshi-grille-possible-2014-toyota-4runner-limited-front-grille.jpg

yuck.

[YotaFun]

Oww! My eyes! They burn!!!!!

Ugh I seriously just can't get into that bumper -_-

[DHC6twinotter]

LOL

Every time I see a SR5 or TE, I think of this:
http://www.fly-fishing-discounters.com/images/Largemouth600x530.jpg

[YotaFun]

It's funny you say that dan, I usually associate that image with the newest Avalon lol

[paddlenbike]

http://www.fly-fishing-discounters.com/images/Largemouth600x530.jpg
I think the satoshi mod for the 2014 might actually look worse than what Toyota came up with.
http://i778.photobucket.com/albums/yy69/nikesb3x/stuff/satoshi2014_zpsb56de476.jpg
You could remove the grill entirely on a 3rd gen and it would look better than that.

Shrockworks is working hard to come up with something, but the entire front end except the headlights will be replaced with steel. And it won't be cheap.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/fuller_405/WORK/image4_zps48bee02d.jpeg

[DHC6twinotter]

It's funny you say that dan, I usually associate that image with the newest Avalon lol

lol…I actually really like the new Avalon. I think it's one of the nicest sedans out, along with the new ES and GS.


I think the satoshi mod for the 2014 might actually look worse than what Toyota came up with.
Shrockworks is working hard to come up with something, but the entire front end except the headlights will be replaced with steel. And it won't be cheap.
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn259/fuller_405/WORK/image4_zps48bee02d.jpeg

It'll be interesting to see how that looks when finished. Lots of bends and cuts there. If they paint the pieces below the headlight the same color as the body, like they do on the earlier 5th gen bumpers, that might look pretty good.

[Seanz0rz]

I though you would all enjoy seeing its face getting ruined:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q70jNH-FnVY

Full story here:
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/04/08/chevy-equinox-gmc-terrain-honda-pilot-iihs-crash-video/

On the topic of the crash tests, most vehicles are getting pretty bad marks on this small overlap test, but it should really do well to spur the manufacturers to beef up the structure, especially immediately aft of the front wheel.

[paddlenbike]

Ouch, that is a brutal test.

[YotaFun]

Ouch! That is a brutal test! The latest Rav4 was the first to participate in that test I believe (or at least one of the first) and it failed as well.

Looking at the spot in most cars, all that is there is the part that the fender and light bolt to which is a little flap in most cases that comes off the main brace of the body...

The 4Runner looked to do a little better but not much, I keep my foot in that general area a lot on what ever vehicle I drive, when I feel I might be in an accident I usually bring my foot over.

I will def be interested to see what comes of these test results...

[Seanz0rz]

That's a different frontal crash test though. The small overlap simulates a pole or hitting a car headlight to headlight.

Here is the Equinox which did well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjKS5EX_ZB8

[paddlenbike]

I realized right after I posted, but you beat me to the posting Sean.

[Seanz0rz]

The Equinox was good, the 4Runner marginal, this Pilot, well...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8SPBd108Sfc



POOR

[Seanz0rz]

3rd gen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=STj2tOWY7rI
4th gen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls2lerm4R5k

[garrett]

Wow, I'll take back seat middle (feet on the hump) in the pilot.

I love how the 4th gen just bounces off and gets airborn. Although I thought they had side curtain air bags...

[Seanz0rz]

Side curtain only deploys when deemed necessary by the computer.

The small overlap (5th gen and Pilot I posted) cause a pretty large rotation in the vehicle, setting off the side air bags. When my father was rear ended a couple of years ago, he got caught on the right rear corner, much like these small offset crashes. His right side curtain deployed (actually what ended up totalling the car was the price of the airbags).

I personally think they should always deploy because if you watch these small offset crashes, most injury is caused by the dummy missing the front airbag and contacting the A pillar or door. Even a significant gap between the bags will allow the head to enter that space. They really should meet to contain the body within the seat area.

[paddlenbike]

The 3rd and 4th gens appeared to have held-up well.

I went to Toyota yesterday to order some random trim parts for the 4Runner and had about 45 minutes of time to kill. I didn't see anything on Toyota's lot that even interested me enough to walk over to it, with the exception of a gray 2014 Tacoma double cab that was fitted with all kinds of TRD accessories. Price reflected such, it was $38,000. I looked at the 5th gen but no part of it was appealing at all to me. I'm not in the market for anything anyway.

[garrett]

This is just for you Avy! lol

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/attachments/5th-gen-t4rs/108085d1389984396-2014-satoshi-grille-possible-2014-toyota-4runner-limited-front-grille.jpg

yuck.

One of these was parked down my street the other day. Makes me thankful for my stock chrome bumper on my '98... Seriously ugly.

[Kryptoroxx]

I just saw a couple of these on base and they are truly......bleh. It looks ok from the quarter panels back but it looks like a 4runner got in a fight with an AMC gremlin in the front. The Toyota dealer constantly annoys me every time I roll on the lot with the 3rd Gen. Not sure this will happen if someome gets a 5th gen.

stamped and snail mailed

[paddlenbike]

Today Yahoo had an article called "8 Good Designs Gone Bad." I wasn't surprised at all to see the 5th gen as one of the eight.

"Not to say that the previous generation (4th Gen) Toyota 4Runner was a looker, but it was at least it was a little more subtle than this. A new face and edgy new panels can’t make this aging off-roader any more appealing in the looks department. We can attest to its off-road capabilities first hand, but we can’t ignore those ghastly looks."

BEFORE:
https://s1.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/zQ1.Z3.3oncu5saqOZ0dlw--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://listings.zenfs.com/en-US/cms/autos/Boldride/Toyota-4Runner-Before.jpg

AFTER:
https://s3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/mOTMw81_IAGQBwrG4Gw9og--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/http://listings.zenfs.com/en-US/cms/autos/Boldride/Toyota-4Runner-After.jpg

I wonder what they would say about the 2014+, which is far more hideous than what is pictured.

Source: https://autos.yahoo.com/news/8-good-car-designs-gone-bad-120008873.html

[Kryptoroxx]

After seeing the crash tests I might look into getting rid of the Scion xb for the family rig and step into a 4th gen 4runner. The gas mileage isn't that much worse and it looks safer too.

[paddlenbike]

After seeing the crash tests I might look into getting rid of the Scion xb for the family rig and step into a 4th gen 4runner. The gas mileage isn't that much worse and it looks safer too.

I don't think the gas mileage of any 4Runner will come close to an xB. 17/21 versus 22/28.

[Kryptoroxx]

I don't think the gas mileage of any 4Runner will come close to an xB. 17/21 versus 22/28.

This is true but the space advantage of the runner is nice.

[paddlenbike]

The 5th gen now gets the distinguished award of being in the Top 10 of UGLIEST CARS OF 2014.
https://autos.yahoo.com/news/ugliest-car-2014-191700455.html

Well earned Toyota, well earned.

[YotaFun]

I think there is something else that could take its place, like the new Jeep Renegade I mean rugged fiat 500L (which did make the list)

[paddlenbike]

I am offended that my DD did not make the list.

[fenrisx]

Well boys, I might end up getting a TE in the next 3-4 months. I'm not sure I'll miss the 3rd gen given how much I've disliked it lately. :)

[YotaFun]

Fenrisx, I'll race you lol!
I'm do for a promotion soon and a nice pay raise, and there is a TRDPro sitting on the local dealer lot that I at least see twice a week when I go to lunch thats just screaming my name lol!

[ttora4runner]

I just bought a 2010 Trail Edition last week. The 2010-13 look a lot better than the newer ones.

My 02 4runner will be up for sale soon.

[Kryptoroxx]

I just bought a 2010 Trail Edition last week. The 2010-13 look a lot better than the newer ones.

My 02 4runner will be up for sale soon.
I would love to get into one of those but I don't think u could part with my 3rd gen on top of it. I dd mine and I never get tired of driving it....except maybe traffic jams in LA.

[YotaFun]

I feel you there Krypto!
Could never part with my 3rd gen...

Now my 5th Gen Camry is another story lol!

[ttora4runner]

I would love to get into one of those but I don't think u could part with my 3rd gen on top of it. I dd mine and I never get tired of driving it....except maybe traffic jams in LA.

Ya, that's going to be the hard part for me (this is my 3rd one and my favorite) but what I had planned for it I figured it be better to put my money towards something a little newer.

[fenrisx]

Fenrisx, I'll race you lol!
I'm do for a promotion soon and a nice pay raise, and there is a TRDPro sitting on the local dealer lot that I at least see twice a week when I go to lunch thats just screaming my name lol!

Haha... you'll probably win! Once I've got my down payment together I will still have to find the one I want! Looking for a low-miles '10-'13 black Trail might take some time. I might just end up going the new route though, but the price tag on those TRDPro's are a bit steep for my wallet! A new Trail is pushing it.


I just bought a 2010 Trail Edition last week. The 2010-13 look a lot better than the newer ones.

My 02 4runner will be up for sale soon.

I agree! I like the old style a bit better, but just barely. I think long term I may end up liking the updated front better though. I wonder what interior updates were made in the '14+ that may make it more desirable than the '13-. (edit: I think I may actually like the '14+ a little more now)


I would love to get into one of those but I don't think u could part with my 3rd gen on top of it. I dd mine and I never get tired of driving it....except maybe traffic jams in LA.


I feel you there Krypto!
Could never part with my 3rd gen...

Now my 5th Gen Camry is another story lol!

If I always thought the same thing, but I really haven't enjoyed driving mine lately. It's also starting to need a lot of things done to it...

[YotaFun]

I wish though, I really want a new vehicle but we need a house first, and I really need something with a bed.
First will be the house and then next will probably be an FX4 Ford F150 (year and drive-train yet to be determined).

New route would probably be best due to better warrenty coverage, also shoot to get the Toyota Extra Care extends factory warranty to 10 years 100k.

I didn't know there was a change in the interior from 13' to 14' what was the difference?

I feel your pain on the needing a lot done to it, at 222K mine is in the same way, My front bearings finally gave up the ghost (time for manual hub swap lol), and driving a modified truck everyday gets tiring in my mind.

But the phrase "distance makes the heart grow fonder", the less I drive it, the more I fall in love with driving it all over again when I do get in it lol

[fenrisx]

I wish though, I really want a new vehicle but we need a house first, and I really need something with a bed.
First will be the house and then next will probably be an FX4 Ford F150 (year and drive-train yet to be determined).

New route would probably be best due to better warrenty coverage, also shoot to get the Toyota Extra Care extends factory warranty to 10 years 100k.

I didn't know there was a change in the interior from 13' to 14' what was the difference?

I feel your pain on the needing a lot done to it, at 222K mine is in the same way, My front bearings finally gave up the ghost (time for manual hub swap lol), and driving a modified truck everyday gets tiring in my mind.

But the phrase "distance makes the heart grow fonder", the less I drive it, the more I fall in love with driving it all over again when I do get in it lol

Oh, I'm not sure if there was an interior change or not.. I just assume as much. They usually tweak things inside when they do the mid-gen refresh. Buying new would definitely be the way to go, but I'm not sure I want a payment that big. :) We'll see. I was planning to get a house first as well, but still undecided on what school district my girls are going to so I'm going to wait until that's decided before buying a house.

[YotaFun]

Oh, I'm not sure if there was an interior change or not.. I just assume as much. They usually tweak things inside when they do the mid-gen refresh. Buying new would definitely be the way to go, but I'm not sure I want a payment that big. :) We'll see. I was planning to get a house first as well, but still undecided on what school district my girls are going to so I'm going to wait until that's decided before buying a house.

Gotcha.
I think they changed a few things like the steering wheel and way the gauges look.
I feel you on the payments, I guess with me not being at a dealer anymore, what ever I plan on buying if its not normal wear and tear I don't want to have to touch it, I guess that makes me lazy but with apartment living and not being able to work on my own vehicles at the new job I am at I want to keep any repair cost I can down to a minimum.

Looking for a house in two years with a garage big enough to put a lift in so I can start doing my own work, even started watching craigslist for a used tire machine and balance machine and brake lathe, that would at least give me the bare essentials to do some side work, eventually get a press and learn to weld and maybe I can make some cash to afford that new 4Runner lol!

[Seanz0rz]

I am sick of working on a vehicle every weekend (not including rebuilding the 4runner). 3 or 4 old cars in the fleet and you start to spend every free moment fixing every minor issue that pops up.

[YotaFun]

I am sick of working on a vehicle every weekend (not including rebuilding the 4runner). 3 or 4 old cars in the fleet and you start to spend every free moment fixing every minor issue that pops up.

I feel your pain, it sucks, its tiring, thats why a new car would be awesome, especially with a lot of car companies offering free service for the first 25k miles

[Kryptoroxx]

I am sick of working on a vehicle every weekend (not including rebuilding the 4runner). 3 or 4 old cars in the fleet and you start to spend every free moment fixing every minor issue that pops up.

That's why I keep my family/wife car much newer than my own. I don't have a lot of work maintenance wise on the 4runner since the po kept up the maintenance nicely. There's a small seep on the oil pan but it hasn't gotten to the point where dropping the diff and pan would be worth it. I will probably take care of it at the next oil change though. I will admit though my upper and lower ball joints are coming soon and my steering rack will be shortly after I think. None of them are bad by any means but I think I can expect them in the next 12-18 months. Good thing I just throw a little in an account just for that stuff. Steering racks aren't cheap.

[paddlenbike]

When my wife and I both had older Volvos, all I did was work on cars. I got so sick of working on them that we decided to dump both Volvos and get two new cars. Neither my wife nor I had ever bought anything new before. My wife's 1992 Volvo 940 turbo held really well and while it had a lot of things starting to go on it, that car was built like a tank and was one of those rare vehicles that was actually worth throwing parts at (kind of like a 3rd gen). I had heard that the rear-drive 240/740/940 Volvos were the "last of the good ones" and that held true. My 850 Turbo (front wheel drive) was a POS and no matter how much I spent fixing things, other things would just break, creating a constant cycle. I couldn't take it anymore.

Our 3rd gen went from being our newest vehicle to our oldest, but I haven't done any work on it the past 8 years aside from replacing a transfer case output seal about 6 years ago. We bought a 100,000 mile warranty on the Acura and the LEAF has nothing to maintain. I can handle having one old vehicle to work on, but no more.