Injectors removed and on the way to Witch Hunter

[Bob98SR5]

Hey guys,

Well instead of taking the el cheapo route that has plagued me all year, I decided to remove the intake and plenum to remove all 6 injectors. This is in reference to the PO303 and PO304 code that has been causing my 4runner to misfire and stumble. As reference, I used this most excellent pictorial from one of the guys I knew from YT (DuB):

http://www.yotatech.com/f2/fuel-injector-removal-pictures-how-109389/

I believe his 97 has a lot more hoses than my 98. I ended up removing and pushing aside the throttle body because it was a lot easier to remove it and get to the other stuff than to leave it on. The most difficult thing to remove was the two coolant hoses that are right underneath the throttle body. You need a right angled tipped plier to pinch those hose clamps and then a screw driver to push the hoses off the nipple.

Most of the bolts are 12 or 14mm. Take a lot of pics for reference and reattach the bolts and nuts to their respective places because you will not touch this for at least a week before you get the injectors back.

I will post pics and more details after the ND vs U$C(heaters) game

Overall, this was a pretty easy job to do, but hell, after the LCA job, anything is easy.

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8205/8214717517_19f0834fb0_c.jpg

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8481/8214719303_d7421149cf_c.jpg

I am gonna bite the bullet and send all 6.

[CJM]

At $20 its worth it imho. I wish they had designed the plenum another way so you dont have to remove it to do jobs like this, but alas thats not the case.

You gonna bother with a new gasket?

[Bob98SR5]

CJM,

Gaskets were replaced bout 6 months ago, so no.

[paddlenbike]

Nice, that should do the trick.

[Bob98SR5]

i hope so ken. i am at my wit's end w/ my truck this year.

[CJM]

CJM,

Gaskets were replaced bout 6 months ago, so no.



Then Id say your good to go.. :)

[Bob98SR5]

Fedex'd this morning at 8am. Lets see what the turn around time is like. I hope this solves the problem.

Anyone have a source for a used but good condition steering wheel?

[Stevo3]

Hope this fix's your issue Bob, it isn't fun taking that plenum off.

I'd be interested in a good condition steering wheel too, mine is getting torn up.

[04 Rocko Taco]

+3 on steering wheel, and I am interested in turn around from witch hunter. Hope this fixes your issues Bob!

Any gain in doing an injector clean if you are NOT having issues? Just as a preventive at XXX,XXX of miles?

[CJM]

The leather drys out on the steering wheels and begins to flake off in bits n pieces. I think I might recover mine one day.

[corax]

Any gain in doing an injector clean if you are NOT having issues? Just as a preventive at XXX,XXX of miles?


Supposedly, yes. Every time you shut the engine off tiny droplets of gas can dry on the tip, leaving deposits. Or the gas remaining in the tip "boils" a little bit from the heat soak. These deposits can change the individual flow rates of each injector. The ECU has no way to "tune" for variations from one cylinder to another, so it averages between all cylinders. This leads to power variations from cylinder to cylinder. This can result in a slightly rough idle, or, on later/more accurate engine management systems, the ECU can see it as a misfire. Either way, balancing the flow so it's even across all cylinders is a good thing.

[YotaFun]

Keith would it affect fuel mileage if lets say they are all firing but at different rates but not enough to cause the engine to detect a mis?

[paddlenbike]

Bob, check ebay for a steering wheel, there are a few on there.

I saw some 4th gen with steering wheel audio controls on there, which got me to thinking...

[Seanz0rz]

Don't think Ken. It will drive you insane thinking about the possibilities.

[paddlenbike]

Sean, if you only knew the kind of projects that keep me awake at night.

[Bob98SR5]

i am curious to see if i can get 21mpg like some of you when you drive on the highway! i have always avg'd about 17.8mpg on the highway

ken: I did check ebay, but not sure if 4th gen will work for me. i'll check again.

[YotaFun]

Gentlemen just to tell you there was an option out there for the 99 up 4Runners for steering wheel controls...

I am still looking, I think it might have been a overseas option but I remember seeing one here in the US once...

[Bob98SR5]

yota,

wow, never seen it. i really dont need the controls though but still would be interesting to see.

[Crinale]

Sean, if you only knew the kind of projects that keep me awake at night.

I would be very surprised if the projects that kept you up at night were any crazier than the stuff Sean has floating around in his brain... Or me for that matter. Most of us on this forum have vivid imaginations for our trucks. :chair:

[Bob98SR5]

Injectors delivered to Witchhunter today. 4 business days. I have a feeling I won't be getting the injectors until week of Dec 10th.

[Bob98SR5]

Gordon (owner) from Witch hunter called me today and let me know that 1 of the 6 had a coil that was starting to come apart. So he said he bought an engine and had 1 injector I could by from him (serviced, of course) for $31. I asked for two if the 2nd one that was causing the misfire was borderline condition. Very nice guy, very chatty in a good way, etc. He's going to send them out tomorrow and I should hopefully get them by Thurs or Friday.

[paddlenbike]

At least you know that was the problem. congrats.

[Bob98SR5]

Yes, it was a relief to know that one was already headed south. Hopefully this solves the problem.

There are two places you can send your injectors to, WA or KS. I would say its better to send your injectors to the owner's shop in WA.

[CJM]

Glad it worked out for ya Bob!

[fenrisx]

Woohoo

[Bob98SR5]

Glad it worked out for ya Bob!


Well, we'll see if this fixes the problem. Sounds like this is a step in the right direction. I hope they will arrive by Friday so I can have the truck ready for the weekend.

[4x4mike]

Most of us on this forum have vivid imaginations for our trucks. :chair:


I'd say some of our ideas are better than others.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-atQoTingk_c/T9YR-h_QYiI/AAAAAAAAu6Q/VInLqlFq5Cc/s800/538306_10150880476384630_766319629_9572127_8795226 59_n.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-cs8tbEOawKA/T9YR--0-uzI/AAAAAAAAu6Y/tKWMyV2Ha9s/s800/576793_10150880474399630_766319629_9572123_1326329 529_n.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N889qwfv_RM/S5XdWu-6m0I/AAAAAAAAQgE/FhLDG3hxynM/s800/090509_133816.jpg

[Bob98SR5]

Just saw the email from USPS. Injector arrive on Wed. Woot! :clap:

[YotaFun]

Most of us on this forum have vivid imaginations for our trucks. :chair:

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-N889qwfv_RM/S5XdWu-6m0I/AAAAAAAAQgE/FhLDG3hxynM/s800/090509_133816.jpg


That poor truck




Just saw the email from USPS. Injector arrive on Wed. Woot! :clap:


Awesome!!!

[Bob98SR5]

(oh shit, i see my thread is going down the tubes...)

[CJM]

Well, we'll see if this fixes the problem. Sounds like this is a step in the right direction. I hope they will arrive by Friday so I can have the truck ready for the weekend.


I hope so. I hate it when you fix what you think it is but thats not the issue.

[4x4mike]

(oh shizzle, i see my thread is going down the tubes...)


Only because we're all waiting for your injectors...and pictures (of injectors I guess). I'm excited by all the new posts and updates lately on UY. I'm just doing my part. Sorry it's in your thread.

[paddlenbike]

I like my threads with a good mix of 1) tech and 2) pictures of Toyota pickups-converted-to-2-story-4Runners-with-rounded-pulpits.

[Crinale]

I like my threads with a good mix of 1) tech and 2) pictures of Toyota pickups-converted-to-2-story-4Runners-with-rounded-pulpits.
:lol: :rofl:

[Bob98SR5]

salad tossers, all of you!!!!

man, so bummed i didn't get the injectors today. says "reached sorting facility" in the hood. hopefully they'll come tomorrow.

my f'g cat left me a shitty kitty present on the carpet when i got home though. son of a bitch, i get a steam cleaner vac to clean my truck and bmw, and all i've used it now twice on his ass dragging shit-capades.

[Crinale]

salad tossers, all of you!!!!

man, so bummed i didn't get the injectors today. says "reached sorting facility" in the hood. hopefully they'll come tomorrow.

my f'g cat left me a shitty kitty present on the carpet when i got home though. son of a bitch, i get a steam cleaner vac to clean my truck and bmw, and all i've used it now twice on his ass dragging shit-capades.
sounds like my parents' cats... >.< I woke up this morning with a present outside my door

[paddlenbike]

< I woke up this morning with a present outside my door


It's the gift that keeps giving...

[Bob98SR5]

Well gents, the injectors arrived on Thurs but I just picked them up from the apt office today. most interesting is the report. as you can see, #4 injector was the bad one, showing high resistance 110 vs the other ones at 13.4. #7 is the replacement. they did clean the injectors. they even returned the #4 injector and a bag full of the old seals and other misc parts. NICE.

tomorrow ill spend sometime very carefully cleaning the area where the injectors sit. there's a lot of caked on stuff. then I'll put everything back together and go for a drive and see if we're back in business

[4x4mike]

Party on Garth. It looks like quite a value for the work done.

[Bob98SR5]

yah do tell. its like $150 or something per new injector if you can find them.

[Bob98SR5]

Update:

Runs like a f'g champ :thumbup: :clap:

Haaaaaawwwkkkkk pppptttuuuuuu (sound of me spitting in triumph)!!!

So far, no codes. Throttle response seems very crisp.

So before I forget, some tips:

There's definitely a lot of bolts, nuts, hoses, etc to keep track of. Best bet is to just secure them all in place on their respective parts since there will be about a 1.5 week lag until you get the injectors back. I missed the PCV hose and there was a hiss like nobody's business. I removed the throttle body, make things easier and it was easy to remove and move out of the way. On the bottom half of the plenum, I did not remove the brake boosterhose. instead, I just propped the whole thing up against the back side of the engine cover.

In order to push the fuel rail up, you will have to slightly bend back the engine cover.. Don't worry, just do it.

This is less daunting than it looks. It's actually quite easy. The hard part is again keeping track of all the nuts n bolts. Take a lot of pics and keep them on your camera or phone

My fuel rail (driver's side) plastic cover that covers the wire bundle was fragile and broke off into little pieces. After you remove the lower plenum and if the rail cover is brittle, I would either protect it some more or just be done with it. It broke up on me and i removed it all together

[CJM]

Glad everythings working great Bob! So happy I steered you to witch hunter!

[Bob98SR5]

CJM,

Yes, should have done the proper thing and thanked you for steering me in the right direction.

Front suspension completed, now injectors cleaned and running smooth. Now I can drive it w/ peace of mind.

Bob

[CJM]

No worries at all Bob! :)

[Seanz0rz]

Bob, now that the 4Runner is working well, ditch work and come play in the desert with us on Thursday!

[Bob98SR5]

I'll be heading to Mammoth on Friday, so Thurs would be cutting it too close. Plus, i have to work! :p

[paddlenbike]

After riding in your truck I was 95% sure it was the injectors, so congrats on finding the problem and fixing it. I am amazed how closely the other five injectors balanced. Within 2.5% after 200,000 miles is absolutely remarkable.

[Bob98SR5]

ken,

yeah he said that the one failing was sort of an anomaly given all the others were co close to spec and not a huge variance from each other. it's still running well.

[YotaFun]

It all depends on how a vehicle is taken care of and what kind of fuel is being put into the tank.

My stepdads 4Runner at 248k still running with all original injectors.
He usually does a can of fuel treatment once a year, and he always uses premium fuel from sunocco or shell when he takes long trips with the truck.

I am sure all factors play a strong part in making the fuel system last so long

[Bob98SR5]

yota,

isn't premium overkill when the recommended fuel grade is regular?

[paddlenbike]

I have to run premium, but I was not aware it had additional additives. I also have never done a fuel treatment, perhaps that should be on my list.

Bob, glad she's purring like a kitty. (And not a sh*tty kitty, btw.) :)

[YotaFun]

It's not overkill, but its not necessarily.
Its more like a piece of mind.
I run premium everytime I take long trips or hit the trails.

[04 Rocko Taco]

I have 220XXX on my '04 Taco, no fuel additives, no premium ever, its been rode hard and put up wet, and tows my '84 and 20' car hauler EVERYWHERE. Original injectors.

Only thing it has EVER had in 220K is a water pump and timing belt. :)

Might be time for plugs and wires. haha.

[Crinale]

In my understanding - the extra "additives" in Premium fuel is only to reduce knock and ping, usually required in performance, high compression, or forced induction engines. There aren't any extra cleaning additives in Premium vs regular as long as its from a top tier station ( http://www.toptiergas.com/retailers.html )



I have 220XXX on my '04 Taco, no fuel additives, no premium ever, its been rode hard and put up wet, and tows my '84 and 20' car hauler EVERYWHERE. Original injectors.

Only thing it has EVER had in 220K is a water pump and timing belt. :)

Might be time for plugs and wires. haha.
That sounds about right, haha.

[jrallan26]

I also only regular unleaded. Here in Iowa we have ethanol. I avoid ethanol like the plague.... As for fuel treatsments, I use Techron every 5K miles.

[Crinale]

Out here in Cali I don't think stations can legally sell anything but e10... >.< so I do tend to run some Lucas Fuel System Cleaner when I think about it in all my vehicles.

[04 Rocko Taco]

most stations here in southeast are 10% ethanol gas, we do still have a few though selling 100% gas, and my mileage tells me which is which in a big way. lol.

+2 or 3 mpg with 100% gas over Ethanol.

[Crinale]

Yea I've heard that too... I wish I could get it out here in Cali

[paddlenbike]

Our 2012 Acura says to use no more than 10% ethanol by volume. Any higher and the fuel system is no longer covered under warranty. I know that's the case with other manufacturers. Luckily the EPA just approved 15% ethanol.
EPA approves E15 fuel label despite engine risk (http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2011/06/e15-e10-ethanol-alcohol-pollution-engine-damage-labels-gas-station-pump-epa/1#.UNDGaGcgzRQ)

[Seanz0rz]

NO! E15 is horrible! basically it means our older vehicles will suffer due to the higher ethanol content. not to mention the move from food to fuel utilization of crops, etc, etc.

[Crinale]

NO! E15 is horrible! basically it means our older vehicles will suffer due to the higher ethanol content. not to mention the move from food to fuel utilization of crops, etc, etc.
Exactly! It's even harder on motorcycles! Especially the carbureted ones that have been made as recently as 2006. Ethanol destroys the seals inside of the carbs, as it makes the fuel really dry.

[4x4mike]

A motorcycle has a small enough tank you can treat it. I treat the fuel I use in my chain saw, mower, blower and string trimmer with some Ethenol stuff. I just started with the tank I got and figured it couldn't hurt. I've been using straight premium for years with zero problems, even leave fuel in the tanks, but figured I'd give it a whirl.