Gates and fences - wood or metal posts?

[paddlenbike]

I need to build a new fence and double gate. So here is the age-old question, do I use wood or metal posts?

HERE (http://www.huckleberryfence.com/pics2/orange7a.jpg) is what I have in mind--a "picture frame fence gate" with 1x5 redwood boards top and bottom. The gate looks exactly the same on both sides.

The gate will be semi-decorative, so if metal posts were used, they would need to be boxed in wood to hide the posts. Beyond appearance, the second goal is a sturdy gate that doesn't sag.

Would redwood 4x4 posts support the weight without deflecting? I could use 4x6 posts but they would have to be turned sideways because I need every inch between gate posts for vehicle entry. And if I used steel posts, is it even possible to build this style fence? It seems most of the metal post adapters are meant to hold one 2x4 stringer, not sandwich pickets between two 1x5s top and bottom.

[Seanz0rz]

anything is going to deflect to some degree unless you support the gate mid span.

i built a 17 foot wide bi folding gate out of a couple of heavy duty pre fabbed wrought iron fence panels. if i was to do what you plan on doing, i would build it the same way but attach the wood fence boards on either side.

for a metal post, i used a piece of scrap 2" square, .250 wall tubing i had. sunk it into a big hole about 3 feet deep and poured several bags of concrete around it. this post holds up the entire gate from blowing over in the wind, and it is secured using two cane bolts. on the far side another 4 foot gate latches to it.

[DHC6twinotter]

The fence/gate that Sean built is way cool. Definitely the way I would go if I had a larger span.

[paddlenbike]

Sean, what do you mean by prefabbed iron fence panels?

[4x4mike]

Probably something like this: http://www.homedepot.com/buy/first-alert-39-in-x-70-in-steel-fence-black-standard-grade-single-walk-through-gate-g22ghds39x70.html#.ULkcQmfV7k0

In my experience the posts don't sag, or cause the gate to sag. It's the gate itself. If you were building "doors" that were really big I would start with at least with a metal frame and attach wood to it. Depending on the wood you attach to it you might be able to attach hinges to the wood as well. The hinges themselves as well as the box that makes up the doors are what add up to sagging.

I've got two different double door openings into my backyard. Both openings have gates that somewhat sag and it's because of the weight. When they get wet they are even heavier. They don't get used much at all so I've never cared to make them not sag. They have the very large "L" pins that hold them shut. The "L's" get pushed into a pressure treated 2x4 that is in the ground.

[Robinhood4x4]

A coworker used some 4x4 square steel tubing for the gate attachment points, but it was fairly thin wall and it sagged enough that the gate wasn't square where they met up.

I'd say use adjustable hinges to compensate for any sag or misalignment in the gate.

[paddlenbike]

Wood seems like an easy choice, but now there are piers you can sink in the ground and attach a wooden post, there's steel posts and then the newer metal z-posts...too many options, haha. A z-post won't support a gate though.

[CJM]

Id say the best idea is to sink a metal post. You can put wood around it if you wish afterwards. Then get some beefy hinges and make a metal frame with an X or perhaps just a \ across for support. This way you prevent sag. You could always put a wheel on the bottom of it too, thats why people do that-prevent sag.

[paddlenbike]

The holidays gave me the time I needed to finish up some badly-needed gate and fence upgrades around my home. I will let the pictures show how ugly and decrepit my old fences were. When opening the gate you would have to lift it off the gate latch then push it left so the gate pin wouldn't dig into the stucco of the house. It was pathetic.

Old gate:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-OG4n4sv9oTE/UNSZUZQORGI/AAAAAAAAI-Y/UN8cZznKIpk/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

New gate:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-F7-fmCXlJK0/ULguYOIkVgI/AAAAAAAAHjA/GfPDf2lOY_E/s400/gate.jpg

The fence was worse. Think "privacy fence" minus the "privacy." When the wind came up the pickets would flap and the fence would lean a little more after each storm. It had fallen over once already and there were some nice cut-outs in several of the pickets where it came to rest against the two trees. This feature proved handy for observing what was going on in the adjacent street.

Old fence (via Google streetview):
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-mI3Zd3jAU28/UOSls9emOGI/AAAAAAAAJJU/egKgPRr6nXQ/s640/old_fence.jpg

New fence:
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-aK54kQtUHHk/UORVgFXbctI/AAAAAAAAJIs/_d62pGmja7w/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

The new fence will be stained early next summer once the moisture content of the redwood has dropped. I was able to build the fence 2' closer to the street, thereby making my backyard slightly larger and reducing the amount of yard outside my fence (that is also my property) that I have to maintain.

This style fence is extremely time-consuming to build. Everything has to be dead-level, each kickboard and stringer has to be drilled for pocketscrews and each picket has to be cut down from 6' to meet fence height restrictions. Then each nailer plate has to be screwed in place to cover the fasteners for the pickets. I was quoted $75 per foot to have this built. It was more labor intensive for me but the only additional cost for DIY was the cost of 4 1x2s per fence section ($1.79 each) and a pressure treated 2x6 kick/rot board at $7.92/ea. I think it makes a nicer looking and sturdier fence. I still have a new double gate to build at the end of the new fence line as well as a new fence across the back of the property; so plenty of work remaining.

[Seanz0rz]

Looks great! I will post up some pics of my bifold gate, you could potentially use a similar design and cover with wood.

[Robinhood4x4]

That does look like a lot of work. Good job.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Looks really Good! Congrats on the hard work, and nice fence!



Looks great! I will post up some pics of my bifold gate, you could potentially use a similar design and cover with wood.


Sean, I would also be interested in this. I'm trying to redesign a VERY flawed double wide drive thru gate in my back fence.

[paddlenbike]

Thanks guys. And Sean, I would be interested in seeing your gate too, that's the next thing I have to build. It's a 10' span, so including the width of a 4x4 post, each portion of the gate will be under 5' in width. I was considering going with a 1/8" walled 4x4 boxed steel posts, but it seems like that would be way overkill for such a small double gate. Perhaps I would be better off with just redwood 4x6 posts to match the rest of the fence?

This is along the lines of what I'm thinking for a double gate:
http://s3-media4.ak.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/8QIe9rKpp6vJ6JlplTkeqg/l.jpg

[Bob98SR5]

Good job, Ken! Having done that in my backyard with THREE sets of neighbors, I can tell you its more difficult than it looks. I'm sure you experienced that yourself. It'll look so much nicer stained. Hire some day laborers to do the staining. Trust me on this.

[Crinale]

Looks good Ken - ah the joys of home ownership...

[paddlenbike]

20' of 3/16" 4x4 boxed steel followed me home today. They're set more than 3' in the ground stuck in 200# of concrete each. These should out-last my house. ;)
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uEiYDU5TYj4/UOeffBAJciI/AAAAAAAAJJw/rvPnmEazSFU/s640/IMAG0418.jpg

[Bob98SR5]

do you have a metal cutting chop saw?

[4x4mike]

I've got a chop saw if you need it. If Stuart is helping I know he's got one as well.

[paddlenbike]

Thanks. And Stuart was at play here, which is partly why this is way overbuilt.

[Robinhood4x4]

I'm glad you went with 3/16". 1/8" seemed kinda flimsy to me.

[paddlenbike]

When you pick up 1/8th inch it seems substantial and its hard to imagine a gate tweaking it, but it happens. The 3/16ths was just to be sure.

[Bob98SR5]

Mike,

I may need to borrow that chop saw or maybe i just bring all the metal and have the pieces cut while I'm up there (better plan i think). I'm planning to make a cargo box. I'll be up there Jan 26th weekend.

[Seanz0rz]

Bob, I have one you can borrow any time. just give me a day to de-bury it from the shed.

[Bob98SR5]

Oh cool, that would be great. thanks, Sean. Been meaning to do this project forever.

[paddlenbike]

I'm planning to make a cargo box. I'll be up there Jan 26th weekend.


What size tubing are you making it from?

[4x4mike]

I assume it's small square tube. Let me know if you need it when you're up.

[Crinale]

I need to buy a chop saw to go with my new welder. Probably just gonna get a Harbor Freight one for now...

[paddlenbike]

I had a few hours Sunday to get started on the double gate. I started with a basic dog-eared framed gate design:
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-T2_gaNNNj_c/UPRFqybd0iI/AAAAAAAAJUU/fNEAHVZ5ZfM/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

And used the "lipstick on a pig approach" to dress it up a little.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-9TNCgdgUCLY/UPRFsbAxehI/AAAAAAAAJUc/BRbNcq-MaiA/s640/%255BUNSET%255D.jpg

I bought some wrought iron black strap hinges and decorative door handles to dress it up a bit. Glad I used steel posts, these things are heavy.

[Bob98SR5]

looks good ken