Stiff clutch

[slomatt]

The clutch on my 2000 5spd seems to be getting progressively stiffer as time goes on, to the point where it's becoming a hassle to drive. The truck has 105k on it and as far as I know its the stock clutch. As with most 5spds the bushings for the clutch spring wore out long ago so I removed the factory spring and replaced it with a low-pull linear spring. A few weeks ago I bled and replaced the clutch fluid but that didn't seem to help. Both the master and slave cylinders show no leaks.

Do other people find the clutch on their 3rd gen to be significantly heaver than most manual transmission vehicles?

Any ideas on what else to look at? It's possible that these trucks just have heavy clutches, but I'm starting to wonder if my master cylinder is not working at 100% or if there is friction when sliding the clutch on the output shaft.

Thanks.

- Matt

[paddlenbike]

Mine was exceptionally heavy when the clutch pedal bushing was bad, but I replaced it and put it back together like it was when it was stock. Now it's not any heavier than a Mazda 3.

[4x4mike]

Matt I have the exact problems as you've mentioned. I've got more miles and I have no idea about the age of the clutch. I've had my 4Runner for 5 years now and it's very stiff. I can't say it's stiffer than it was 5 years ago but like you said it's a pain to drive.

Recently I pulled the stock spring and installed the Ace #70 spring that everyone says to use. The spring made no difference but made it obvious the problem is the pushing down of the pedal. FWIW my stock bushings on the spring and pedal were all in operable condition.

Ken did a little searching for me and came up with this link:
http://www.yotatech.com/f2/3rd-gen-5-speed-very-hard-shift-52619/

I've done little to fix things as I don't have the time and commute by other means. I have peeked around and everything looks in good repair. Nothing is leaking and the fluid levels are fine. One day when this thing blows out my knee and forces me to walk with a cane I'll dig into it deeper.

[paddlenbike]

I would start by bleeding the clutch hydraulic system at the slave cylinder. You will need two people.

[Seanz0rz]

come sit in my squareback and then we can talk about a stiff clutch...

my left leg is going to look like a Sequoia tree someday...

[slomatt]

Thanks for the replies. I had already tried bleeding it using a MightyVac, there were some bubbles still in the hose but I think they were air being pulled through the threads on the bleeder screw.

The stock clutch spring appears to provide assistance when you first start pushing the pedal, I removed mine because the bushings were gone and the holes are worn badly. Can't help but wondering if I put the spring back in if it would help out. The problem is the metal that has worn away on the fork as shown in the following picture, so I'd have to replace it or get it welded.

http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/albums/t4r_clutch_bushings/IMG_0118.jpg

The big gotcha is that last month I moved into an apartment while we look for a house to purchase, so I don't have a garage to use at the moment.

- Matt




Mike, have you driven Ken's truck? Is his clutch any lighter than yours? The clutch on my 4runner is so heavy that it hurts my leg after a while. My other car is a 2002 WRX which by no means has a light clutch, and it seems at least 50% lighter than the 4runner.

[slomatt]

Here's an interesting article by a guy who replaced the plastic bushing with a bronze one.

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/1st-gen-tacomas/76599-clutch-pedal-squeak-new-bushing-design.html

- Matt

[4x4mike]

I know that the spring will not help my case. My pedal was annoying the hell out of me so I was paying it a lot of attention. Then pulled the spring and tried the pedal with and without the new spring and there was no difference.

I'm thinking something is gunked up in mine and needs some maintenance or parts replaced.

[paddlenbike]

Replacing the torsion spring with the linear spring will increase pedal effort. My fork looked like yours Matt, maybe worse, so I just filled that void with JB Weld, reinstalled the bushing and all has been well since. My maintenance records show I did that January 14, 2010, so it has been over three years with no problems.

Mike has driven my truck but I think he missed your question at the bottom of your post.

[4x4mike]

Ken's pedal is very easy to depress. While on a trip I had to fart a bunch so we switched vehicles. While in his, taking care of business, it was like driving a barbie car. With no effort his pedal hit the floor. Mine wouldn't do that with three legs pushing on it.

Without any spring I stuffed myself into the footwell and pressed the pedal with my hand/arm to see what was going on as it traveled. Nothing seems to be binding but there was also no spring for me to over power. It's just tough. I probably need a bleed and inspection/

[slomatt]

Mike,

It sounds like you and I are experiencing the same issue (the stiff clutch, not the farting, that sounds like a personal problem). It is very informative to know that Ken's pedal is noticeably lighter, that gives me hope that I can improve mine.

Here are the culprits I can think of in order of power transfer, not in order of likeliness.

- Bushings in the clutch pedal assembly (pin connecting to the master cylinder, side bushings for the spring, bushings on the pedal pivot bar, bushing where the spring applies force). These are about $20 total so I'll probably just replace them all and add grease. I don't think it's highly likely these are binding enough to cause the problem.

- Replaced factory coil spring with a linear spring. From what I can remember this only made things slightly stiffer, though since the bushing was destroyed perhaps that wasn't a fair comparison. I'm going to push the stock spring back in and use JB weld like Ken did. Or... might try to make a bronze bushing to replace the plastic one.

- Problem with the master or slave cylinder. I don't see any leaks or obvious damage, but I guess a seal could be leaking internally resulting in loss of pressure.

- Air in the clutch fluid. I just flushed mine a few weeks ago and it didn't help, but strangely I kept getting bubbles which I though were just coming through the threads of the bleeder nipple. If there were a leak I would expect to see fluid somewhere.

- Friction between the slave cylinder plunger and the clutch fork. This would squeak, but I can't see how it would make the clutch stuff.

- Lack of grease in the transmission, either on the clutch fork pivot or the throw out bearing. This could be the case, which would suck because you have to drop the trans to repair.

- Problem with the pressure plate. Also requires the transmission to be removed. I read one post where someones clutch got heavy and they later had a failure of the pressure plate. My clutch has 105k miles on it but is not slipping, I'm tempted to drop in a new clutch.

Can anybody think of something I missed?

- Matt

[paddlenbike]

Now I know why my truck stinks.

If I were to do it all over again I would definitely go the bronze bushing route. It sounds like 50,000-60,000 miles is how long that plastic bushing lasts, and I have probably only put 30,000 miles on my truck in the past 3 years since I've done the repair. The link you included above looks just as easy and should last forever.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if the spring fingers in the pressure plate were failing, the clutch pedal effort would go down, not up, right? If you put an upgraded clutch in a sports car you have higher pedal effort.

If you suspect the TOB needs lube, you can peel back the rubber of the shift fork (right at the bellhousing and the clutch slave cylinder) and carefully spray white lithium grease. Be sure to tape the red straw nozzle on the grease so it doesn't fly into the bellhousing and stay there.

[garrett]

Matt, did you make any progress on this? I've driven my 5 speed for ~8 years, 100k miles now and the clutch pedal has been as stiff as you describe ever since I got it. I just figured it was by design. I had no idea it could be as easy as Ken's is described.

Fwiw, I removed my torsion spring way back when that original bushing thread was started on YT but didn't replace it with anything. Have never had a problem with the pedal returning all the way. Spring or no spring never felt any different on mine, regardless of spring type.

Also don't think either clutch MC or SC have ever been replaced on mine (~200k miles now...).

[Seanz0rz]

I think a MC and SC replacement might fix your problem. Bob replaced his recently and I seem to remember it helping quite a bit.

http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?10499-Clutch-Master-Cylinder-Slave-Cylinder-replacement-and-bleeding&highlight=clutch+master+cylinder

Not sure if it will solve your problem, but at that mileage, it might be worth it.

[slomatt]

Garrett,

I put the torsion spring back into the clutch pedal along with new bushings, but the clutch is still very stiff. My guess is that either the clutch fork needs lubrication or the MC/SC need replacement. Both are somewhat expensive repairs and I don't need a clutch yet so I'm holding off for now.

- Matt

[paddlenbike]

Was the clutch fork pitted from running a bad bushing? Mine was terrible. If the fork is in good shape, you have the torsion spring reinstalled and it's all lubed, I would follow Bob's advice and do the Aisin MS/SC at the same time. They are $56 and $26, respectively, on Amazon.

[slomatt]

The clutch fork was badly pitted, but I installed a brass bushing so it wasn't a real problem. The brass doesn't deform like the plastic bushing does and it keeps the pivot point in the same place. I replaced the rest of the bushings at the same time.

I think I'm going to go ahead and buy the MC/SC and see if that helps. Also, I read on a Taco board that an improperly adjusted clutch pedal might increase the required effort, so that is something to look into as well.

- Matt

[garrett]

excuse the ignorance, but are yall talking about the fork connected to the clutch pedal (the part that plunges through the firewall into the MC)? or the fork inside the clutch housing that the SC pushes to disengage the clutch? i thought you could only inspect that part if you drop the trans...

[slomatt]

We were talking about the clutch fork inside the transmission, the part that moves the throwout bearing. Interestingly some people have had issues with the pivot punching through the fork, which is a common problem with diesel Land Rovers since they have a stamped steel fork.

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193199

- Matt

[paddlenbike]

Ew, that's ugly. Reminds me of the Chevy 350s when the pushrod pushes right through the lifter.

[garrett]

We were talking about the clutch fork inside the transmission, the part that moves the throwout bearing. Interestingly some people have had issues with the pivot punching through the fork, which is a common problem with diesel Land Rovers since they have a stamped steel fork.

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=193199

- Matt

wow, that's not encouraging.... i guess the only way to see this is to drop the transmission?? probably not happening for me unless it stops working all together or clutch needs replacement, which may be a while...

i am jealous of his 'light as a feather' comment however...

[slomatt]

I borrowed a borescope from a friend and plan to inspect the inside of the 4Runner's bell housing to see what there is to see. My Land Rover has much more serious transmission problems so have to debug that also.

- Matt

[slomatt]

VICTORY!

The heavy clutch in the 4Runner has been causing issues with my left knee, so I decided to take the plunge and try to get it fixed. I was going to replace the clutch myself but I haven't had time, so I ended up taking it to a shop.

Here's what was installed.

Marlin Crawler HD 1200lb-ft pressure plate, clutch, throwout bearing, and pilot bearing.
https://www.marlincrawler.com/clutch/heavy-duty/clutch-tacoma/1995-04-6cyl-1200-lb-clutch-kit

New flywheel.

Aisin CMT-093 Clutch Master Cylinder
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EEY2WQ?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01

Aisin CRT-014 Clutch Slave Cylinder
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JZDAW6?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01

Originally I was just going to change the clutch, but the new master and slave cylinders are not that expensive so I decided to replace them as insurance. I also previously made sure that my clutch pedal bushings are in good shape, see http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?10698-Grumble-grumble-stupid-clutch-bushing-grumble-%28pictures%29&highlight=heavy+clutch.


Ever since I bought the truck the clutch pedal has been very stiff and there is a groaning noise when you depress it. There was also some shudder in the morning when first engaging the clutch, and the throwout bearing whined a bit when the clutch was out in neutral.


I'm happy to report that all of this has been fixed! The clutch is now amazingly light, to the point where when I first depressed it I thought they had forgotten to hook up the hydraulics. It's like driving a completely different truck. My clutch was definitely worn (114k miles), and there was play in the pilot bearing. They did not see any scoring on the input shaft or issues with the throwout bearing clips or the clutch fork.

Coincidentally, I had just washed the truck (only happens about once a year), and the mechanic said "You know how you feel when your friend has a super hot girlfriend? That's how I feel about your truck." :) I'm just happy that the clutch issue is resolved, and I'm interested to see how the HD pressure plate performs on the trail.

- Matt

[4x4mike]

Great to hear. On start up yesterday I heard what sounds like a slight chirp. It might actually be belts but I too have the heavy pedal. I'm about 10K miles from putting 100K on my 4Runner so I assume it's a factory clutch. Thanks for the parts list as this may be something I do soon.