Need advice, shopping for a new/used family car

[slosurfer]

As many of you know, we have had our share of vehicle problems (at one time, all 4 of my vehicles broke down in one week), and we are needing to get ourselves a new or used family vehicle. We have been borrowing my parent's 2000 Passat, so we have discovered that we can easily get away with a small 4 door car as a family car.

I am leaning for a low mileage used car, 4 door, gets good gas mileage, possibly a wagon or hatchback, and something that is known for reliability. We still have the tacoma for camping, snow trips, etc... and the 4runner will eventually get fixed, so I don't have to worry about this being used for anything other than hauling us and maybe some luggage around. Any ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I have not paid attention to these types of vehicles in a long time.

I would also be interested in new vehicles, but we are also going to possibly start the process of looking to buy a house, so I am leary of a big car payment. If I did go new, I might lean more towards hybrids like the new big prius. Anyways, any ideas on new would be helpful too.

We are kind of on a time crunch, so I greatly appreciate any advice. We are using a rental for right now and low on browsing time. I am super busy with work, which makes this slightly less painful, but it also means that we don't have a lot of free time to be looking, not to mention, dragging two kids around car lots is not that fun. We don't have a lot of free cash to buy private party, so we are pretty much stuck with car lots and financing, so any advice on buying used from lots would help too.
Thanks guys!

[paddlenbike]

If I were in the market for a non-pricey new car I would look to the new Ford Focus. I drove it and it's surprisingly nice.
http://www.carrentingreviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/2013-Ford-Focus-SE_rear-sideline.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

If you are going midsize and new, the new accord is my vote. The new Mazda 6 and ford fusion are both very nice as well.

Compact, don't waste your time on the civic and corolla. Civic is a big box of meh and the corolla is really old, with a new model coming next year. Focus is nice, and would be my pick. Everyone loves the Chevy cruze. I don't.

Used, anything Honda or Toyota will be fine. To me, used car prices are so inflated, I would probably buy new if I could. Otherwise, the last gen civic was nice 06-11 I think. Dad liked his before it was toatled.

I like Subaru but the cvt or ancient 4spd auto is a deal breaker.

I'll keep thinking about it and post more.

[paddlenbike]

As Sean said, the new Accord is really nice and the interior was massively upgraded from previous models and now looks very much like our 2012 Acura.

[DHC6twinotter]

I'd agree with Sean and Ken. The new Accord is really nice, and it's a vehicle I would seriously consider if I was in the market. Highway EPA estimates are identical for the V6 and I4 models, although the I4 does a bit better in the city.

The Mazda 6 is supposed to be getting a diesel soon. Might be a pretty good car.

The Focus hatchback is another car I'd consider, and the new Rav4 is really nice (imo). Subaru Outbacks are nice, but like Sean mentioned, your stuck with a CVT or 4 spd auto. Some of the models have a manual tranny, and you could go with the H6 engine that comes with a 6spd auto, but then your mpg drops. The Venza might be worth looking at too.

[paddlenbike]

As far as wagons go, there isn't much to choose from. Audi dropped their A4 wagon with the same fate for the BMW 3-series wagon, the Jetta wagon has reliability issues, the Subarus aren't made super well as of recent, which pretty much leaves the Acura TSX wagon and the Dodge 300 wagon. There are a few more options above $50k like the Mercedes E-class wagon, CTS wagon and Audi All-Road. Americans aren't buying wagons, so there are very few options.

Edit--Dodge dropped the 300 wagon. "Those who were wanting a return of the Chrysler 300/Dodge Magnum wagon might have to let those dreams drop. Chrysler-Lancia CEO Saad Chehab told Autocar there will no Chrysler 300 Wagon. The reason is due to “sales in the US for estates are too slow to justify the development costs,” even though the previous 300 wagon was popular.

[Seanz0rz]

I have to add that I would stay away from the VWs. I have seen too many problems to recommend them to a family. If it was just you, and you had the ability to fix little stuff and have down time for it, maybe, but as it stands, they get a thumbs down from me.

[slosurfer]

Thanks guys! Keep it coming!

[Robinhood4x4]

the corolla is really old, with a new model coming next year.

That sounds like a good thing because that means they've got all the bugs worked out.

However, I'd look for something bigger for a family. We've got an 02 corolla which is smaller than the current version, but even for us with no kids, it's too small.

Personally, I wouldn't get anything with a CVT (other than a prius), a VW or an Audi. We'll most likely replace the corolla with a prius, someday.

[Seanz0rz]

FWIW, my dad also really loves his Kia. It is wonderful to drive, comfortable, sorta practical (not a ton of cargo room, but that's why he has his super duty). Hyundai and Kia are both on my list of cars to look at. Don't buy used, because the warranty does not come with the car. The Optima and Sonata are both very nice, and cars I would consider.

My list for midsize car in no particular order: Accord, Sonata/Optima, Fusion, Mazda6.

Compact: Elantra GT, Focus 5door, Cruze, Mazda3 (though there is a new one coming next year). I think I would ultimately have the hatchback Focus.

[paddlenbike]

This thread is way too helpful, with not nearly enough arguing over cars. Chris, I'm going to suggest you go a different direction and get a used compact wagon that actually has some style and elegance to it.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dCy9GwArX1I/UZFbqZWqFbI/AAAAAAAAKDw/r7s1AXITvFE/s640/Kcar.jpg

See how bland our new-age wagon looks compared to this fine Chrysler automobile? Acura tried to copy the Chrysler's chrome roof rack, chrome window moulding and chrome door handles, but was not willing to go the extra step to fit fine wood exterior treatments along with those classy looking whitewall tires. Such a shame.

Just do it and don't look back.

[Seanz0rz]

Notice how no one has mentioned the Camry? Hey, Toyota, are you listening? The new Camry sucks... FIX IT!

[DHC6twinotter]

Notice how no one has mentioned the Camry? Hey, Toyota, are you listening? The new Camry sucks... FIX IT!

x2 The Camry doesn't have much going for it, other than it being reliable. There are other reliable cars that are better in every other way.

Chris, you guys should get one of these:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gsEPxFLCLfM/TtPfwarpjQI/AAAAAAAAJ5s/otyN4Hc44jk/s1600/1948-woodie.jpg

Pretty cool cars, imho.

[Good Times]

Chris from the top of my head I'm thinking....

If your budget is about $10-15k:

Toyota Rav4 (used - 2006 to 2012, prices from $10-20k, 2.5l 4cyl or 3.5l 6cyl, 21-30mpg)
Honda CRV (used - 2007 to 2011, prices from $12-23k, 2.4l 4cyl, 21-28mpg)
Toyota Matrix (used - 2009 to current, prices from $12k-?, 1.8l and 2.4l 4cyl, 20-32mpg)
Scion xB (used - 2008 to current, prices from $12-?, 2.4l 4cyl, 22-28mpg)
Scion xD (used - 2008 to current, prices from $9-?, 1.8l 4cyl, 26-33mpg)

I'm kinda in a similar boat except I'm looking to replace the aging 00 Accord for something newer too but don't want to be slapped w/ the monthly car payment. It's getting an average of 22 mpg so it's not necessarily that bad but doesn't hurt to be open for a slightly newer car that gets better mpg.

[CJM]

Both my parents and my brother are firm believers in hyundai. My dad had an 04 sonata that was still going at close to 300k when my brother crashed it into a tree in the snow, my dad bought a 2012 sonata to replace it with and has had no issues, my brother bought an 06 sonata and loves it and my mom just got a 2013 santa fe. All of them ride SUPER nice, handle exceptionally well, are modestly priced and very reliable.

I used to tout the camry, but honestly I dont feel the quality is as much there as it once was. Not only imho is the hyundai nicer but cheaper!

[YotaFun]

Lance hit the nail on the head with the list of cars I would have suggested.

Try to find a certified used if you can, and attached onto it the Toyota Extra Care plan.
It extends the factory warranty for I believe up to 100k miles or so many years.

If you go with the Rav4 for the years 06-09 get the one with the 3.5l v6, the 2.4l in them is way under-powered, but if you go with a 10-12 model year the 2.5l is actually very peppy.
I can't say much about the Honda...
If you get the Matrix get the 2.4l in it, again the 1.8l is just to under-powered for the larger body, and they do have an AWD option which I really do like, not something I would recommend you take out to the dunes, but its an option non the less.

The only thing I would knock off Lances list is the Scion xD, imho its just way to small for what you need, compare it to a corolla. with a shorter rear end in a hatch form.

Now, if you want to go a little older then those options.
May I add the following
Toyota Highlander (used - 2005-2007, prices from $10-20k, 2.4l 2cyl, 3.0l 6cyl, 3.3l 6cyl or 3.3l 6cyl/hybrid 19-26mpg)

As much as Kia and Hyundai have come up in styling, I see too many still coming in on the hook to warrant them being a 'reliable' vehicle.

[Good Times]

Avy funny you should say the xD is out cuz I was almost about to throw in the Yaris into the mix! I saw one a few days ago and literally was like hey this could work for me!! Besides the 06-12 Rav4 v6 AWD in white/grey that I'm hunting the Yaris is actually a wildcard option for me.

[Seanz0rz]

if you think you can live with a car that small, the yaris and fit are nice vehicles. I'd also recommend the fiesta, if you can deal with the dual clutch being kinda weird (same for the focus)

[slosurfer]

Help me compare these two...

Honda Accord Sedan LX
http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/specifications.aspx

Kia Optima LX
http://www.kia.com/us/#/optima/specifications

Locally the Optima is a few hundred more than the Accord, but seems (on paper at least) to have a bit more power, better styling, and better warranty. I actually can't find what the standard Accord warranty is, but the Kia has the 100,000 powertrain warranty

[Seanz0rz]

I assume the accord is 5 year/50k miles.
EDIT: http://automobiles.honda.com/accord-sedan/warranty.aspx


use this: http://automobiles.honda.com/tools/compare/results.aspx#hondatrim=35040

and this: http://www.kia.com/us/#/compare

each manufacturer will spin it in their favor.

[slosurfer]

LOL, I was just using both those pages you just listed Sean.

[slosurfer]

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-dCy9GwArX1I/UZFbqZWqFbI/AAAAAAAAKDw/r7s1AXITvFE/s640/Kcar.jpg
Just do it and don't look back.

I could slap some hardiboard on that wood and tile the heck out of it. :)




http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-gsEPxFLCLfM/TtPfwarpjQI/AAAAAAAAJ5s/otyN4Hc44jk/s1600/1948-woodie.jpg

Pretty cool cars, imho.

Dan, that's funny, because that picture was taken here in Morro Bay. :)

[DHC6twinotter]

The Accord LX has either a 6spd manual or CVT. Optima LX has a 6spd auto.

If it were me, I'd try to avoid the CVT. I would go with a manual tranny and I4, or pay the extra for the V6 and get the 6spd auto. Or just get the Optima with a 6spd auto and I4.

The Accord LX with CVT gets 27/36 mpg, and the Optima LX with 6spd auto gets 24/35.

[Seanz0rz]

FWIW, I'd pick the Optima. I really like the new Accord, but the CVT is a deal breaker...

[slosurfer]

What's the deal with CVT and why is it so bad?

This will be April's car, so it will have to be automatic. I like the Optima better too so far

[Seanz0rz]

Questionable durability, weird driving dynamics, and the feeling by long time drivers that "something is wrong"

Basically, think of this as an infinitely variable transmission. The engine is kept at the same RPM (its optimal operating speed for torque demand and fuel economy, usually biased to the latter) while the trans varies the ratio to the wheels. People describe it as a "rubber band feel" and I tend to agree with that. They feel VERY strange, and you feel like it is not working right because you are accustomed to a finite speed trans with individual gears.

The biggest worry for me is durability. These haven't been around all that long, and there are many wear items.

http://www.howstuffworks.com/cvt.htm

[slosurfer]

Ah, makes sense! Yeah, that doesn't sound like something I would like

[DHC6twinotter]

The Ford Fusion might be worth checking out as well. Price is comparable to the Accord or Optima. The base "S" model comes with a 170hp 2.5 I4 and 6spd auto. If you bump up to the "SE" model, there is also a 1.6 EcoBoost with about the same hp (but more torque at much lower RPM), and there is a 2.0 EcoBoost with 240hp.

The base 2.5 motor gets 34mpg on the highway, and the 1.6 EcoBoost 36 on the highway. I'm not completely sold on the long-term reliability of Ford's turbo motors, but so far, I haven't heard of any complaints.

[Seanz0rz]

They feel less strange in a tiny car. Nissan makes the best ones, but they are still a CVT.


I think the bottom line is, you will not be disappointed by any of the options we've given you. It is totally a buyer's market for midsize cars. Literally everything is good. I personally think the best are the accord, optima, and fusion. It would come down to which features interest you more and which tickles your fancy.

[slosurfer]

Thanks, checking out the Fusion now. I forgot about those

[4x4mike]

With the possibility of buying a house I would not buy a new car. High insurance and a car payment can be more stressful when shopping or paying for a house. This is just my opinion but if you're not dead set on a new car avoid the instant depreciation and get some thing relatively new. There are a lot of options out there and used can put you in a better place for whats to come.

With the potential of buying something with good gas mileage get something with enough room. 4 people traveling in a small car can get old quick. Heck, anything over a few hours in the 4Runner make me wish I was driving a motor home with a minibar and TV.

[slosurfer]

Mike, I tend to agree with you. I might have to rent this car another week, until I can find something :(

[slosurfer]

Going to try to cut out of work early today and walk some lots. I am going to need a stick though, I hate talking to sales people until I am ready to talk to them. I am hoping I can find a good used low mileage vehicle in the next two days. If I have to, I will rent a car a few more days to find the right deal, I guess it will be worth it in the long run, and the Dodge Charger is kind of fun to drive :)

[Good Times]

Mike does have a valid point here. Additionally, any purchase which requires payments right before a large purchase is definitely going to put a big dent in your purchasing power especially a house. Therefore maybe we need to shift the search parameters to limit to cash purchase option vehicles only?

Found this: http://slo.craigslist.org/cto/3727125824.html

08 Civic, similar to the 06 Civic we have at home. It's small but works for our needs. You guys are beyond the stroller requirement so I would think any 4 door vehicle would suffice right?

Have you looked into used Nissan Altima's?
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/3783281930.html

[slosurfer]

Yeah, just about any 4 door will work. We have been using my parents 2000 Passat for months, which is what made us realize that we could easily do with a small 4 door car. A small wagon, would make it a little easier when April has to take the dog to the vet, but it is still doable in the small car, especially now that the older kid is out of a booster seat and can sit in the front if need be.

[Seanz0rz]

Altima has trans issues and other quality issues.

2011+ Focus, the earlier ones are not worth buying.
2010+ Fusion, the 06+ models are ok but a bit ugly.

if you can stand the ugly (I personally want one) the Accord Crosstour is nice, and you should be able to pick one up pretty cheap seeing how it is so ugly.

[YotaFun]

If your alright with a midsized car as well, may I offer this option.

2005-2006 Toyota Camry LE or SE with the 2.4l 4Cyl.
Don't flame! Its the last of the good camrys and the reliable 2.4l.
I daily drive one of these (LE model) my only gripe, it doesn't have a sunroof (SE models usually do)

Also a 2005-06 Matrix with the 1.8l is not to shabby of a car, my boyfriend Chris has one and he loves it, just try to shoot for a fwd only model, the AWD (which we have) eats through tires to quickly.

Also 2005 Rav4, just before they resigned it for the 06-12 model, it was the last year and had the 2.4l in it an every kink worked out of it, I wish i could have picked up one of the these for Chris, but I could never find an 05, or one that wasn't 2wd only.

[Good Times]

Here's a Toyota Matrix
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/3781264028.html

03-08 Matrix ranges from $6-12k

[Good Times]

If you find something local to me I can check it out for ya! :)

[Seanz0rz]

If you go matrix, get the 1st gen. It is bigger with more cargo room. My almost son-in-law had one until a drunk driver took out the left rear while it was parked. Nice car.

I also agree with the -06 Camry. Even the 07+ is OK. You can't go wrong with one, I just think there are probably better options out there.

the last gen Mazda 6 is pretty nice, but reliability might be suspect. you'd have to weigh the price/car vs expected long term repair costs.

[4x4mike]

Mike does have a valid point here.

I just wanted to quote this because it's been a long time since I've heard this.



Have you looked into used Nissan Altima's?
http://orangecounty.craigslist.org/cto/3783281930.html

My Dad has an '05 or '06 Altima and it's been a great car for him. I never noticed them before he got his and now I see them everywhere. He had had a company car for 25 years and bought this when he changed jobs. He wanted simple and reliable. I'd say that 95% of the ones I see are the 4 cylinder 2.5 liter and he can get 35 mpg with his without even trying. He does a lot of freeway driving down the valley and it's a comfortable car with a lot of space (interior and trunk).

[YotaFun]

I personally would avoid the 07+ Camry, just don't feel as solid, if you do, get and SE with the V6, but the mileage isn't that great then...

[Seanz0rz]

http://www.businessinsider.com/figuring-out-the-price-of-a-car-2013-5

alot of common sense in that article, but it may help.

Friend had a 05 2.5L Altima and had massive transmission failure at about 95k. Alexus had a 04 3.5L Maxima and the trans was completely cooked by 140k. It seems like it was driven really hard, but either way, it was a failure. That 3.5L motor was FAST though!


Honda Element. Those are SO cool!

[Good Times]

o mean I totally forgot the Honda Element!!!

1st Gen: 2003-2008 $5-15k (19-24mpg)
2nd Gen: 2009-2010 $13-20k

Note that it does come in 2WD/AWD options.

Here's one near me:
http://losangeles.craigslist.org/lac/cto/3802739533.html

[slosurfer]

Just found out that April would be fine with a manual. Does that open me up to some used subarus now?

[DHC6twinotter]

If your willing to go used...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_qSUL3dIwKIo/TIi2mt3nEKI/AAAAAAAAEkU/lmvyQBKba4g/s1600/Pontiac+aztek+breaking+bad2.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

Yeah, a 5spd subie wagon would be awesome!

manual transmissions will be cheaper, more reliable (especially in used vehicles) and easier/cheaper to maintain.

[DHC6twinotter]

Also, if you end up looking at the Toyota Matrix, I would also look at the Pontiac Vibe. They are the same vehicle, but you may be able to pick up a Vibe cheaper.

The Lexus IS300 would also be a good used car, if you can find a low mileage one. Their fuel efficiency isn't as good as a newer car, but IMHO, they are one of the best vehicles ever built.

[YotaFun]

Keep a look out on the subies though.
Try to find a lower mileage one, a few guys at work have been picking up subies with higher mileage but with head gasket issues.
Since your already going through that issue on the 4Runner it might be something you want to avoid...

[slosurfer]

Dan, is that the one from Breaking Bad?

[DHC6twinotter]

Yes it is.

[Seanz0rz]

Good call on the Vibe. should be less $ than a Matrix and are identical.

[slosurfer]

This is probably a little more than I want to spend, but what are your thoughts on Volkswagen TDI
2010 Golf TDI (http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=115766773&listingRecNum=21&criteria=sf1Dir%3DDESC%26stkTyp%3DU%26rd%3D100%26c rSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-transTypeId%26zc%3D93442%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D0-0-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dmode lYear%26sf2Nm%3Dprice%26isDealerGrouping%3Dfalse%2 6transTypeId%3D28112%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D2870 5&aff=national&listType=1)

[Good Times]

bob was looking into one of these. I have zero knowledge on the vw tdi's reputation so I can't comment but it looks sexy! :)

[Seanz0rz]

My friend bought an 06 gulf TDI a few years ago. The first 6 months I think he had it a grand total of 3 weeks. The turbo would fail (or waste gate, or something else related) and he would take it back to carmax to have it fixed. They offered to buy it back minus the transport cost he paid, so he said no. They furnished him with a rental the whole time it was in the shop. They finally figured it out, and it has been somewhat trouble free since.

buying used, I think I would avoid it. If I was to buy a new one, I might consider it.

Diesel is a tough decision as well. here it is usually at least the price of mid grade unleaded, sometimes significantly more (.50 or more /gallon) and the fuel economy gains might not be enough to justify it, not to mention the higher cost of the car, and the other "downsides" to a TDI such as sounding like a tractor

[slosurfer]

I could be wrong but I think the 2010 is a different motor than the 06, I will have to check it out.

Fuel wise, I think it is worth the extra $ per gallon since these are getting mid 30's in town and high 40s highway.

I will have to research them some more. Its a lot of money, but at least someone already took the depreciation hit for me.

[slosurfer]

Looked at the Golf today briefly on my way home from work, just to see if it was even big enough. I didn't get to test drive it, but I did start it and sit in it while it idled, the diesel was much quieter than I expected. Honestly, with 2 kids in the car, engine noise is not one of my big concerns. LOL! April is going to go look at it tomorrow, to see if she even thinks it will work, and possibly test drive it. The trunk space is obviously smaller than a midsized, but the hatchback would allow us to put the dog in the back if we needed to run him to the vet. Backseat will fit 3 kids just fine.

Researching them tonight, most people absolutely love them, but there can be an issue with catostrophic failure of the fuel pump. Right now, most are being covered, even if out of warranty by Volkswagen (unless it was due to human error of filling with gas instead of diesel).

[Robinhood4x4]

Looks like there's a recall for those to replace an injector because a vibration resonance could cause an injector to crack and spill fuel all over the place.

Also it looks like when the fuel pump goes, it sends metal flakes throughout the whole system and everything needs to be replaced which costs about $5000 if not covered under warranty.

Seems like they also like to stall on the freeway or in the middle of intersections, which may or may not be related to the fuel pump and injectors.

I always do a search for known defects at nhtsa.gov
http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/owners/SearchVehicles

Back in ought 2 (that's '02 for you youngins), I was looking for a car for the wife and looked into VW's. They had a whole bunch of problems, mostly with the transmissions. VW's and Audis have never been that reliable.

[L33T35T Tacoma]

Chris,
If I'm not too late, let me make a recommendation.

2007-2011 Honda CRV. My dad has one (2009) and it's a really nice riding car. I took it to Vegas last year (220 miles) and I got 30+ mpg! We have had ZERO issues with it. It only comes in automatic in the US market, though. 2001-2006 are nice also; we've owned a 2005. The newest generations are ugly. I'd HIGHLY recommend one of these for the family. Tons of room in the back and a good size cargo space.

[slosurfer]

Thanks for all the advice people! Definitely helped us out! We decided against the used 2010 Golf TDI with 53,000 miles that was listed at Blue book of almost $21000 and then another $2300 for a warranty out to 120000 miles. Discovered that April wasn't ready to get a manual transmission, hehe :) , but that she loved the car. I was bummed, but glad because I really didn't want to spend that much on a used vehicle. Decided to just check and see how much a new one was, figured they were upwards of $28000 (actually the lowest model is $27,100), and discovered that the local dealership had just listed two (a white and black one) at $3,101 off the MSRP, putting it at $23999 for a Golf TDI auto! I was the first on the lot in the morning and the salesman thought it was listed at $25000 and I had to show him the new price. Anyways, I drove it and then later April came and drove it, and then he helped us hide it from all the people coming in looking for it, while we haggled. We ended up getting the white one, and I think the black one sold last night as well. First 36,000 miles all maintenance and bumper to bumper is covered (I will only pay for tires and brake pads), powertrain is out to 60000 miles. I extended the bumper and bumper out to 7 years 75000 miles and got them to give me more service and maintenance out to 60,000 miles. I really was just shooting for past 40,000 because the auto has a filter and fluid change at 40,000 that cost about $400, but was stoked that I got it out to $60,000. I don't have to work on this thing at all if I don't want to.

[slosurfer]

Need to get the rear windows tinted for sure!
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/2013-05-18_08-25-05_727_zpsfcd39e00.jpg (http://s38.photobucket.com/user/slosurfer27/media/2013-05-18_08-25-05_727_zpsfcd39e00.jpg.html)

[Robinhood4x4]

Awesome Chris! Good color. How many miles do you put on each year?

[Seanz0rz]

Very nice! Congrats! I do love me some Golf!

[slosurfer]

Thanks! It's a fun car to drive and I haven't even played with the paddle shifters yet :)

Steve, before I took over the Tacoma as a work vehicle, when it was the family car, we did about 10,000 miles a year.

[Good Times]

sexy! Chris you really should be driving that 200 in the back ;) hehe

[YotaFun]

Cool! Congrats on the new car! yeah def get those back windows tinted lol!

[paddlenbike]

Sean, I know you had expressed interest in the Ford Focus a while back. It got the Aston Martin treatment, and I think it looks really good.
http://o.aolcdn.com/hss/storage/midas/fe5f73c9898adfbcec0347c76896ad8b/200016805/2015-ford-focus-sedan-628.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

Yep! I'd be looking at the 5 door, since it needs to be as practical as possible. If they sold the fusion wagon here I'd buy one of those.

[Kryptoroxx]

Yep! I'd be looking at the 5 door, since it needs to be as practical as possible. If they sold the fusion wagon here I'd buy one of those.
Hate to go toyota on ya but I was looking at the venza if we end up having 3 kids

[YotaFun]

Hate to go toyota on ya but I was looking at the venza if we end up having 3 kids

NOOOOO, I am begging you as a Toyota lover do not get the Venza.....

[Bob98SR5]

With the possibility of buying a house I would not buy a new car. High insurance and a car payment can be more stressful when shopping or paying for a house. This is just my opinion but if you're not dead set on a new car avoid the instant depreciation and get some thing relatively new. There are a lot of options out there and used can put you in a better place for whats to come.

I would have to agree with Mike here. I have a cautionary tale about buying things around the same time as financing a home purchase: the townhouse that I used to own was in a bidding war which we won. However, the reason it was up for sale again was that the person who won the bidding war before foolishly started to buy furniture, tvs, etc. She took out those store credit cards to buy them. That changed her credit profile during the escrow period and something went awry and the sale fell through. My loan agent said that you want things to appear as stable as possible during the pre-approval, finance, and especially during escrow. Even more so when you're borderline. Financing of an automobile in my opinion would not only lower your credit score but also the available credit that would be available to you as determined by their loan financing/credit profile algorithms.

Skip the car purchase for now is what I'd do.

[Kryptoroxx]

NOOOOO, I am begging you as a Toyota lover do not get the Venza.....
I only pointed it out as it is a wagon type thing. What's wrong with the venza?

[YotaFun]

Just for what it is you would get better room in a rav4 (before the redesign) or a highlander, and the price of one it just blah, and the 4cyl version is very underpowered

[Kryptoroxx]

Just for what it is you would get better room in a rav4 (before the redesign) or a highlander, and the price of one it just blah, and the 4cyl version is very underpowered
I have seen them on the road but I really hate going into dealerships. They're always asking if I will trade the 4runner in.

[YotaFun]

I have seen them on the road but I really hate going into dealerships. They're always asking if I will trade the 4runner in.

Yeah, cause a lot of salesman want a 4runner for there own and will low ball you for it...
I hated working on the Venza, just so odd to me, i feel there are just better options out there but thats me...

[Kryptoroxx]

Yeah, cause a lot of salesman want a 4runner for there own and will low ball you for it...
I hated working on the Venza, just so odd to me, i feel there are just better options out there but thats me...
Yeah they love me in Palm Springs lol. I saw 3 of them walking down the sidewalk last time I was there. I get great service though ha ha.


That's solid advice. It does kinda stick out in the yota lineup. I think if we get lucky (crossing fingers) and I can get stationed OCONUS again we will store the 4runner and just simply sell the scion to buy a new or used 4runner when we get back to the states. Gives us plenty of time to save cashola.

[paddlenbike]

It always surprises me how few companies sell mid-size 'sporty' wagons. When we were shopping for one we found our choices included really small cross-over type vehicles, premium cars like the Mercedes and BMW 5 series wagons that cost way more than we were willing to spend, or Subaru, who's reliability has suffered and now are plagued by CVT transmissions.

If something like this were available in the U.S., we would have bought it in a heartbeat:
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/275/831/1/S2758311/slug/l/01-2014-hyundai-i40-tourer-qs-1.jpg

You all know that after owning a full electric car, my wife and I wouldn't even think of buying a car that doesn't at least have a plug. The new Hyundai Sonata plug-in hybrid will do 22 miles on electricity before the gas engine fires up, enough for trips around town or 1-way to work on electricity alone. The electric motor gives the plug-in a 50 hp boost over what the standard gas car makes for power, making it more fun to drive. $2.25/gal fuel means we probably won't see anything like this in America for a while, at least in wagon form.

[Kryptoroxx]

It always surprises me how few companies sell mid-size 'sporty' wagons. When we were shopping for one we found our choices included really small cross-over type vehicles, premium cars like the Mercedes and BMW 5 series wagons that cost way more than we were willing to spend, or Subaru, who's reliability has suffered and now are plagued by CVT transmissions.

If something like this were available in the U.S., we would have bought it in a heartbeat:
http://o.aolcdn.com/dims-shared/dims3/GLOB/legacy_thumbnail/750x422/quality/95/http://www.blogcdn.com/slideshows/images/slides/275/831/1/S2758311/slug/l/01-2014-hyundai-i40-tourer-qs-1.jpg

You all know that after owning a full electric car, my wife and I wouldn't even think of buying a car that doesn't at least have a plug. The new Hyundai Sonata plug-in hybrid will do 22 miles on electricity before the gas engine fires up, enough for trips around town or 1-way to work on electricity alone. The electric motor gives the plug-in a 50 hp boost over what the standard gas car makes for power, making it more fun to drive. $2.25/gal fuel means we probably won't see anything like this in America for a while, at least in wagon form.
That concept is kinda cool. I could dig that really well. Better economy than a hybrid because of the fewer batteries but not limited on range because of the electric only option.

Probably won't be allowed in America because the government couldn't figure out what the mpg would be lol.

[paddlenbike]

In addition to not buying a car with direct injection (save for a few Toyota/Lexus models that use DI & port injection), you'll want to pass on the 9-speed auto gearboxes too. Quite a few manufacturers are using ZF's 9-speed, including Jeep/Chrysler/Fiat and foreign manufacturers like Honda/Acura, Land Rover and BMW. This article does a good job explaining how these transmissions work: http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2014/02/zfs-9-speed-9hp-transmission-puts-dog-clutches-on-the-leash/

Some info copied and pasted from elsewhere:
"Link: ZF 9-speed Automatic Problems Mount, Chrysler Releases Third Update for Cherokee (http://blog.caranddriver.com/holy-shift-zf-9-speed-automatic-problems-mount-chrysler-releases-third-software-update-for-jeep-cherokee/)

""Problems with the ZF-designed nine-speed automatic transmission are continuing to pile up, with customer complaints continuing to roll in regarding new Jeep, Chrysler, and Acura models.

As of today, we counted a total of 145 unique owner complaints posted to the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, 126 of which explicitly named the 2014 Cherokee’s transmission. Another 10 transmission complaints were lodged for the new 200, and eight have been posted to the TLX’s log file.

Cherokee, 200, and TLX owners have each reported conditions such as sudden lunges from unexpected downshifts, a lack of kickdown upon entering highways, front-axle vibration in low gears, and complete failures in which the transmission shifts into neutral while driving and lights up the dash with warning lights.

Other owners have reported rollaways in which the vehicle indicated it had engaged park when it was actually in neutral.

While NHTSA has not launched an investigation, Jeep dealers are replacing between 12 to 15 transmissions a week, according to AN. Aside from Honda, there have been no recalls for this transmission, only lots of frustrated owners from these first-year vehicles.

“We have had to do an inordinate amount of intervention on that transmission, surely beyond what any of us had forecast,” FCA CEO Sergio Marchionne said at the Detroit auto show last month."

[Kryptoroxx]

Seems like we are going to have some growing pains with 9 and 10 speed transmissions. They are pretty slick but like all improvements methods will change over time.

[paddlenbike]

More Toyota front-end ugliness coming your way.
https://s.yimg.com/cd/resizer/2.0/FIT_TO_WIDTH-w568/ba16372666ad868a707d00194d2e2b566fbf04f4.jpg

And we have already discussed the Toyota Mirai, right?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/cars/images/toyota/mirai/Toyota-Mirai-front-large.jpg

I just read a press release that the new Prius is coming soon and will feature "aggressive front end styling." Oh gee, I can't wait to see that.

[Seanz0rz]

Wtf is that thing on top?

I just bought a Fusion and it is VERY nice. MyFord Touch is starting to grate on my nerves already though.

[paddlenbike]

Wtf is that thing on top?

Scion iA


I just bought a Fusion and it is VERY nice. MyFord Touch is starting to grate on my nerves already though.

What, really? Nice! What year...we need details!

[paddlenbike]

Sean, what year Fusion did you get? Ecoboost?

[Seanz0rz]

I'll toss some pictures up tonight if I get a chance, working late today.

2016 Ford Fusion SE w/ 1.5L Ecoboost, nav, sunroof, some other options. Got a great deal and 1.9% apr.

[paddlenbike]

I'll toss some pictures up tonight if I get a chance, working late today.

2016 Ford Fusion SE w/ 1.5L Ecoboost, nav, sunroof, some other options. Got a great deal and 1.9% apr.

First new car? Congratulations! The wife and I absolutely loved the Fusion, and came really close to getting one. The main thing that held us back was the Microsoft infotainment system that was used in 2013 models. I've been so frustrated by Microsoft products lately that my wife and I threw all of our MS stuff away and started over again with a combination of Mac and Chromebooks. But I understand Ford broke their contract with Microsoft in 2015 and is now using a different (Blackberry QNX, and much better, I've heard!) operating system. Yours should have it.

Alexis has to be so happy. I remember that Chrysler 300 she had; those weren't known to be good cars.

[Seanz0rz]

So far the infotainment system is OK. Having a touch screen for the climate controls is dumb but most of the features, if not all, have a button right below.

[paddlenbike]

Now you need an aftermarket blow off valve to make the ricers jealous.
https://youtu.be/VX0616tD_YQ?t=39

[Seanz0rz]

Pics tomorrow after the tint goes in.

[Seanz0rz]

As promised:

This area could use a few dozen more LEDs!
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/293/18536835188_1bb25797e4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf38hG)

Least favorite part of the car. When I have some extra cash I will search CreepsList for some better rims.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/443/18698304326_ccebd7f08a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uuiGrm)

https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8874/18536826598_858edb3c1d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf35JA)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8854/18103937553_36c3816b36_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tzMpUn)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8854/18536827648_c762358a1e_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf363G)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8874/18536826598_858edb3c1d_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf35JA)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/446/18719748992_62f9a51433_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uwcBbY)

Here are some pictures of the interior gadgets:
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8861/18719745412_0140a70df4_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uwcA8f)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8849/18698288436_56cdd91d14_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uuiBHo)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8833/18101962624_be23115f5a_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tzBhPS)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/432/18103921793_dbdd1e4770_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tzMkdD)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8875/18538395779_5e25bb4450_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/ufb8cr)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8840/18101959584_1329bb5483_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/tzBgVs)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8831/18536815928_43e8d20792_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uf32yC)
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8866/18724591085_9677ff5650_b.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/uwCqzk)

[Seanz0rz]

I will have to get some pictures of the engine bay with and without the engine cover.

Impressions of the car are extremely positive. It is quiet, very powerful but not harsh or overbearing. It is just the right amount of power. The infotainment is extremely nice. I thought it was still M$ based and couldn't figure out why people were complaining about the earlier versions. This one works very well, but the touch sensitivity is a bit lower than I would like; you have to press a little harder than I would expect.

The gauges are extremely well thought out. On the steering wheel, there are directional pads on each side that control their respective screens on the IP. The center stack is well thought out and the duplicate physical controls are very welcome for the HVAC system.

There are no physical door lock knobs, just red LEDs. They also have the capacitive keypad on the B pillar window trim. I will probably never use it, and actually have forgotten the code already.

Trunk is huge and needs some more LED lights.

Dash cam goes in Sunday.

We ordered these floor mats: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00IBOQI3A?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00

They are amazing and I highly recommend them. They are sadly not available for the 3rd Gen. Company is down the street from where I work too!

[paddlenbike]

Nice Sean, that is the same color we were looking at. Hanna really wanted red but the car we bought was only available in a wine-red, which we didn't like as much.

It's amazing to think a 1.5L engine is pushing a car that size around, and it does it well. I think you got one of the best sedans made, congratulations.

19" Ford H-spoke wheels are super nice.
http://carphotos.cardomain.com/images/0016/17/09/16007190_large.jpg

[paddlenbike]

Holy crap, the Toyota front end design department is off the hook...I think the team was given two weeks to put the alien face on all their cars. Here's the new Prius.

http://2-photos4.ebizautos.com/new-2015-toyota-prius_v-5drwagonthree-11805-13187341-6-400.jpg

What do you think? Gorgeous? Time-less? Sophisticated? Elegant?

[Seanz0rz]

Oof. Wtf is up with the reverse gills? Makes it look like a whale shark. That's not a compliment.

[Kryptoroxx]

Call me a loyalist or whatever but I never plan on leaving Toyota.

I guess it would be wise to shop around though whenever I do get in the market.

We would take a swing at like an 08 Camry or something similar just because of the trunk and the kiddos but I think we will probably end up with a sequoia or 4th gen runner with 3 rows of seating. I don't think we are done having kids yet. A Camry would be bursting at the seams with 3 seats across.

I would love a Camry wagon.

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[Seanz0rz]

Please shop around. I don't think you can buy a bad car today (except for some FCA products), but some are seriously better than others.

[Kryptoroxx]

We might have found something too. There's an 09 highlander with the 2.7l for sale with 53k on the engine. Pretty reasonable price at 18 and it has a lot more space.

Wasn't looking for Toyota specifically but I did like the ride in a highlander and the mpg is decent too. 25-27 hwy is just fine.

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[Seanz0rz]

Is that the first gen highlander? I like those. Not wild about the current one.

[YotaFun]

Congrats on the new Fusion Sean! Love the color! Been looking at the F-150 and that color or the Bright Blue.

09' is the 2nd Gen Highlander, which are decent, but the newest Highlanders are god awful.

I agree with everyone here, if you are going to buy new, Toyota is really not the way to go.
They still hold there reliability in some aspects but the looks have suffered, and the technology is falling behind.

From being where I am at now, and being able to work on and look at a variety of different makes and models and packages I have a good Idea of what I would buy.

From the american auto makers, I would stick with Ford for sure, there are a few models I wouldn't buy (Fiesta, Focus, Edge) but the rest of the line is really nice, great features, great power options, and reliability is still on the rise.
Chevy, while looks have definitely improved, and the technology offered in there line is definitely nice, but they still have to work on there reliability, I just feel they still need to much work for having low mileage and its not even wear and tear items.
Chrysler, I think is just a given, they just feel cheap, they haven't had a variety of different engine options in a long time, depending on the model or package you have to control the HVAC through the touch screen unit which is just horrible to use.

When it comes to the Japanese market is Honda. Honda side of things, the Civic and 4cyl Accord are great and probably will never give you any problems, the CR-V is a good small SUV as well, anything else is meh, my main concern is Honda's inability to make a better transmission for there V6 models. There interiors hold up very well though.
Subaru is awesome but then as for mentioned the CVT transmission is just bleh. And now stuck on every model, at least up to 2010ish, you had an option of the CVT, Normal Auto, or a Manual...
Nissan has some okay looking vehicles, but again plagued with CVT transmissions which even the Nissan techs attest to are junk, and they still have timing chain issues, something you would think would be resolved by now. I like some things they offer, example on the rouge it has 360 camera feature.
Toyota, needs to get there head back in the game, and not just put out the cool stuff on the Lexus line (i.e the new 2.ot in the NX) and start doing something, they have stalled and there design is suffering. The only thing on the Toyota line I would consider is a 5th gen trail edition and that's about it. The Camry is still blah, the yaris is ok for what it is, the corolla has a too much technology motor in it (more parts can break), the Avalon is just a ES350, the Rav4 has gotten smaller and more ugly, The Venza just makes no sense, the Highlander is too Big, the 4Runner is on its way to falling off the market, the Sequoia is a joke (but soccer moms love it) and the LC is too tardded up for its own good, the Tacoma is still out dated, and the Tundra need a better frame and a diesel option. They are still reliable because its all old technology but they need to get back in the game.

The Germans, it is a really close toss up cause they still all have to make strides, but you can't beat what VW is doing with there diesel tech, mate that to a hybrid system and that would be a pretty bad ass car. Mercedes has been putting out some sleek stuff and honestly whats been put out in the last 5 years is really holding up well from what Mercedes use to be like.
However I would still avoid BMW, who is starting to get away from the I6 models in favor of 4Cyls and Turbos but they still have a long way to go....

I know I skipped a few in there but thats majority of what I have put my hands on lately.

[Kryptoroxx]

Is that the first gen highlander? I like those. Not wild about the current one.
Its not the very first but its not current either. I stole the picture

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/14/921dcfdef6234fe0c7dfa7ebec0acbb3.jpg

Honestly we need space. The 4runner has it but since its a stick its only for trips or camping type stuff. Wife can't drive it. Stuffing 2 kids into this http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/06/14/5bdfae0ced842ba0a55e7881f7285b33.jpg along with all the stuff that goes with it is not the easiest thing in the world. Now if we end up having a third we can at least squeeze into the highlander for the next rank or so till I can afford to get into a bloody mom tank.
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[4x4mike]

We too have been looking at getting a larger vehicle. With an active family of 4 we need the space. In some instances it's for cargo, in others it's for people. As such we're looking at vehicles with a third row seat. We have many friends with vans and sure they are nice but I don't really want a van. After driving a few around my wife thinks they are too big, thank goodness, and we've focused on crossover type vehicles.

We've driven a bunch and looked at more. I kind of had a mental list going in. Some stayed on the list while others didn't. There were a few that also got added to the list. I'm really liking the Honda Pilot. Like a lot of 3rd gens they keep their value. One that is 1-3 years old isn't that far off from new, so we might go that route.

We have a friend with the newest Pathfinder. It's pretty big and far from the Pathfinder I liked growing up. In the end it will be the car my wife drives and if it's anything like now I'll only drive it to the gas station and maybe on the weekends. She's coming from a 5 speed turbo Subaru so she wants something with some pep. Pretty much everything we've driven is bigger than my 3rd gen but surprisingly they don't seem like dogs.

The Pathfinder, Mazda CX9 and the Highlander are ones that are still on the to drive list. My wife doesn't care much for the Highlander, especially for it's new price and we both have yet to even sit in a Mazda. Thankfully both our vehicles are working well and we like them. That's better than being forced into a new car without having time to research.

[ThorInc]

Call me a loyalist or whatever but I never plan on leaving Toyota.

I guess it would be wise to shop around though whenever I do get in the market.

We would take a swing at like an 08 Camry or something similar just because of the trunk and the kiddos but I think we will probably end up with a sequoia or 4th gen runner with 3 rows of seating. I don't think we are done having kids yet. A Camry would be bursting at the seams with 3 seats across.

I would love a Camry wagon.

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Owned a Corolla Wagon with the 1.8L engine and made in Japan; probably , next to my 1997 4Runner, the best Toyota I even owned. Solid vehicle and always problem free......

[Kryptoroxx]

I was reminded why I hate dealers and why I hate having a military haircut while shopping for anything negotiable.

Called and did most of the arrangements on the phone since the dealer is an hour and a half away. Got there and they low ball me by 2k on my trade all while telling me about all the service members or "young kids" that they sell too. Then to top it off they try to bully me into the buy now. Another family came in conveniently right as we were getting back to the dealership.

I wonder if I had a dick on my forehead or stupid stamped there. Last time I go to that dealership.....well correction. Last time I go there without a couple of buddies. Take a mechanic and a lawyer and have all kinds of fun watching them sweat while you nitpick the car to death and explain the lemon law in excruciating detail.

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[paddlenbike]

I think we can probably all tell stories about sleezy car salesmen that will do or say anything to get you to buy a car. Tesla direct sales is where it's at. Almost as good, I bought the Acura through Costco (no haggling with salesmen) and the BMW i3 can be bought on Amazon in some countries. (I wonder if I could get free super saver shipping on that.)

People are tired of the current sales model and it is in the process of unraveling.

[Seanz0rz]

Our experience at Ford was OK. They were pushy as hell but I've seen worse. Next time I will probably go through Costco or AAA or go through truecar.

I could have got a better deal, but not by much, maybe a couple hundred at the most.

[paddlenbike]

We had the most unusual experience with Costco. First off, we went to Ford to look at the Fusion, but had to park at the Acura dealership because the Ford lot was packed. We walked by an Acura TSX Sportswagon and my wife immediately fell in love with it, but they started at $31,985 which was out of our price range. (We wanted to stay around $26k.) So we did not drive it, and in fact we barely did more than say "this is nice but we can't afford it," and we walked away. We did our Ford test drive and over the coming weeks tried other cars. When we heard about the Costco auto buy program Hanna threw the Acura into their website (just because she was curious) and it came back with a price that I thought for sure was in error. It was somewhere around $27,000. We had not even driven the car because of its price, but suddenly we were interested because at that price we were only stretching our budget about $500-$1,000 over the cost of a Honda Accord or Ford Fusion.

The TSX wagon is a very low volume car--the one we had seen on the lot locally had been sold and the nearest one was 150 miles away. We printed out the Costco price and drove the distance to the dealership with one in stock. Drove it, wife fell in love and we sat down to do the paperwork. We never officially used the Costco program--all I had was an initial quote from costco with a price and the name of the dealership that was closest that had one. Without even an official quote from Costco, the dealership matched the Costco price without much work and the car was ours. I think it was meant to-be because without any hassle we got the car for $5,000 less than MSRP. Actually it was more because the car had some options (floor mats, mud guards, Acura aluminum doorsill appliques, etc.) that weren't even factored into the Costco price.

Had we officially gone through Costco I'm not sure how it would have worked. But somehow things just worked and I would happy to use them officially next time I am in the market for a car. Haggling with a salesman like I did for the LEAF is frustrating, time-consuming, and generally sucks.

[Kryptoroxx]

I think we can probably all tell stories about sleezy car salesmen that will do or say anything to get you to buy a car. Tesla direct sales is where it's at. Almost as good, I bought the Acura through Costco (no haggling with salesmen) and the BMW i3 can be bought on Amazon in some countries. (I wonder if I could get free super saver shipping on that.)

People are tired of the current sales model and it is in the process of unraveling.
We tossed the idea of trading the scion. It will be fairly easy to sell it up here for what we owe. There's a thing called pcs season here where most of the people are either leaving or coming to the base. Since military movers will only move one car many families will sell or buy when they move.

Plus the scion will be priced to move. I'm not looking to make a profit from it.

Also I found out that highlander was a ridiculous price too so there are more in the area at better prices. Just have to drive into LA to look at one tomorrow.

**Edit Not going to drive to LA tomorrow. We are waiting on either the Scion to sell first and get rid of it or my promotion. After debating for about 2 hours we came to the conclusion that while it would be nice to do now.....we don't need to do it now. Good cars can be found easily enough. Now I started looking at Honda Pilots as well. What else is there that is similar for space with 3rd row seating? I've not been impressed with domestic cars judging by what my friends have....but most of them are at least 10 years old lol.

Don't want to get into anything more than 18k. I don't want much of a car payment. We have other stuff we owe on so efficiency and reliability will be big for our purchase. The highlander 2nd gen runs at about 20 city and 27 highway according to what I've read on the 2.7L 2TR. I think that's a great engine although I'm sure it will feel a little weak in the Highlander as well.


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[Kryptoroxx]

Went and took a look at some of the highlander competition and I was not impressed at all. The entertainment packages were better but I can install anything in that department if it were that much of a need. The ride was pretty good in some of them as well. Where the highlander shines is some of the innovation with the third row seating, gas mileage, and the comfort of the seats for me. I can't stand wide seats as they don't fit me well at all. I like being supported with a firm seat. Some of the highlanders lacking features are kind of a boat feel in the suspension as well as visibility with backing. That this really should have a backup camera standard. Also the stance seems really narrow. All in all though I really like the highlander the best though. Especially with the 2tr engine. I think its an excellent engine and the vvti really helps with the weight. Toyota was also smart when they added a 6 speed to help the 4 banger out. Just my opinion as we were shopping. I think the sedans are a different beast though.

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[Kryptoroxx]

Just to put a close on this we ended up with a 2008 toyota highlander limited awd for around 19850. Great price and it's loaded with comfort. The dealership was great to work with and the only real complaint is the rocketbox doesn't work with it. The nice thing is though that there is so much interior space I'm not sure if we will really need it.

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/16/d3a78c7318e6730ba4b94f58b1d8ecbe.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/16/69aa777ccea696852ac685cb38e87d81.jpg

http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/10/16/b9365e65e9fa2cdad7d8a29d37c79214.jpg

We found it when we weren't even looking. It was nice to be able to breathe on the way back down the coast though. The little scion had done it's job and now will move on to someone else.

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