OBA, Help me choose!

[Seanz0rz]

My little Costco compressor is giving up. It keeps blowing fuses and has gotten slower and slower over the years. I am finally ready to upgrade to a proper OBA setup so I can run air horns, maybe an air locker, small air tools, and be able to air up the tires.

I am looking at the Viair kits, and narrowed it down to 3:

pn 10003: http://www.viaircorp.com/OffRoad/10003.html
33% duty cycle, 1.38 CFM @ 0psi. Designed for 33" tires. ~ $285

pn 10005: http://www.viaircorp.com/OffRoad/10005.html
33% duty cycle, 2.56 CFM @ 0psi. Designed for 35" tires. ~ $347

pn 10007: http://www.viaircorp.com/OffRoad/10007.html
100% duty cycle, 1.66CFM @ 0psi. Designed for 37" tires. ~ $372

The first seems a bit small to me, and I think it would be worth the 60 dollars to go up to the larger compressor of the 10005. But then there is the 100% duty cycle for only 25 more. Is it worth the drop in CFM to have 100% duty cycle?

realistically, this will be used to inflate tires 85%, 10% using a blow gun to clean off dirt or even inflate a mattress or something, 5% air tool use (maybe less), and possibly a front air locker way in the future. I would also use it to power some small-ish air horns and to adjust my airbags.

OR, should I go piece together a set similar to this? I priced out the big components of the kit, and it is actually a decent value to buy it as a kit compared to a la carte.

Opinions? Thoughts? hurtful words?

[troyboy162]

Have you looked at the mv90? or a York? The mv90 is not in the same quality class as the viairs, but its also much cheaper. My buddy did have his did and is on a warrenty unit now. Mine has been good. the air filter system is dumb though.

[Seanz0rz]

I looked into the york. Since I plan on adding a second battery as well as upgrading the alternator in the near future, that pretty much prevents me from installing the york.

as for the MV90, the problem I see is the very high amp draw. at 45 amps, it is double the draw of either of the viair compressors I am looking at. It looks like the flow is higher too. I'll have to look into it more deeply.

Thanks Troy!

I intend to install a tank and all the goodies.

[4x4mike]

I looked into the york. Since I plan on adding a second battery as well as upgrading the alternator in the near future, that pretty much prevents me from installing the york.

Hog wash!

We just walked in the door but I have two, maybe three cents to add but I have to get the kids down first. Standby.

[Seanz0rz]

before you do, I am looking to do a dual battery setup similar to: http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/threads/77830-Dual-battery-setup-in-1997-4runner

and add the GM alternator. Is there really space for it next to the batteries? or should I install my 2nd battery where the spare tire was?

[Robinhood4x4]

The 100% duty cycle sounds cool, but I doubt you'll need it. Probably the only reason you would need it is for group wheeling where somebody else doesn't have a compressor, but most people have one. Even if you do need to air somebody else up, going over the 33% duty cycle once in a while isn't going to hurt it.

[Seanz0rz]

that was my thought Steve, but 25 bucks for the 100% duty cycle sounds nice! I just wonder how important the difference in CFM is going to be? It looks like the heavy duty actually airs up faster than the constant duty.

[4x4mike]

Let me start here. I made a bracket and installed a York into my '92 Chevy truck along with 12 gallons worth of tank. I loved it. It would do anything and was totally handy. When I bought the 4Runner it was something I wanted to do right away but didn't have the time or resources to fit it in the much smaller engine compartment so I bought an MV50. I've used my MV50 about 5 times and while it does the job it does it really slowly, loudly and half the time I was waiting for it to give up the ghost. It was purchased purely as a temporary item and for all I know it's in my attic somewhere.

I found a guy making a York bracket for the 3.4 and bought it right away. I was renting place and lacked a welder so it was one of my only options and I was fine with going that route. Now adays I'd make a bracket and call it good. I use my York for blowing up and dusting off things more than I do for airing up, it's that convenient. During Memorial weekend I blew up 2 rafts, air mattresses and pool toys. Everything is hard mounted, easy to use and ready to go with the flip of a switch. No janky hood opening, hot wires and proprietary air chuck.

Now, on to my 2 cents about other options. Prior to the York I had thought about getting a CO2 setup. Hands down a nice tank with Powertank chuck and line can't be beat. Youtube powertank and you'll see it inflate a 35 or 37 inch tire like it was a kids balloon. I passed on it because of the cost of refills, space needed inside of the vehicle and the fact it's high pressure vessel. As it is I can barely fit the family and gear inside of the 4Runner. It's nice because it's got balls and can be removed from the vehicle and used else where.

As for electric systems they are no different than an MV50 to me. The get hot, pull a ton of amps and usually run an oil less compressor (Puma style). For the wiring needed, noise, size and cost I want more CFM, heck even 1.0 cfm would be nice. 100% duty cycle units, wiring, tank, etc add up, plus you need a place to put it. Even the medium Viairs are pretty stately.

Back to the York. I've bought 4 over the years from a Volvo wrecking yard. The one on the 4Runner was born the same year I was, cost $25, pulls 3 amps when engaged, at 1,000 RPM it puts out 6.94 CFM (my shop compressor doesn't even put out that much), is rebuildable, is 100% duty cycle and is engine driven. Our idle is less than 1,000 rpm but give it a slight push of the pedal or stick a pencil in the throttle cable pulley or turn on the AC and you've got more than idle. Even at idle I can fill 6, 265/75/16 tires in the time it takes an MV50 to do maybe 1.5 tires. I've got a tiny 0.5 gallon tank because that's all I could fit under the 4Runner. If you've got more space you can fit a larger tank but it's not necessary to fill tires, inflate toys or dust off things.

Continued in next post.

[mastacox]

Just to be devil's advocate, have you considered a do-it-yourself "Powertank" (a.k.a. CO2 cylinder) setup? You could put together a 10# tank setup for under $200 easy ;-) I carry mine all over the place and love it!

Lucky for everyone here I wrote a how-to to make it easy: http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?9968-On-board-CO2-on-a-budget!

[4x4mike]

So onto dual batteries.
I would try to get both under the hood for simplicity and cost. It's easier and cleaner to install plus you're running less wire and have everything in one place. There is room under the hood if you move things around. Just to do the York I had to rotate my battery and slide the items on my driver side fender towards the firewall, check out my write up.

Below are some pictures from the internet. It maybe ErikB's early days 4Runner but I don't remember. He's got a York, 3 batteries, Premieir Power Welder, supercharger, high output alternator, 5 speed (clutch master cylinder) and a winch. No doubt it's packed but it shows you can do it. I'm pretty sure he quite a bit of item delete as well as relocate but you're thinking about half of the stuff packed in here.


This is where the Hog Wash comes in.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-QbAnTbyCZAE/T1ZbrTtnfPI/AAAAAAAAtiI/QoQKZk3sAKc/s800/web2.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-r7Zr0HLlPNA/T1Zbr5yt0cI/AAAAAAAAtiU/tcTLq3EJrao/s800/web4.jpg

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-uEHp7cwf7YE/T1Zbs9QbIeI/AAAAAAAAtic/wC-R7p-WqT4/s800/web6.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rtugStO2_zk/T1ZbtA6hvFI/AAAAAAAAtig/7QYAWCZkxvs/s800/1.jpg

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-FCqna3tooCs/T1ZbuCFlXSI/AAAAAAAAti4/vqvj_UlK1_M/s800/web5.jpg

Sure there is some custom bracketry going on but really it shouldn't be that hard. You might need to alter intake, etc but it's still gotta be cheaper and better in the long run.

Again this is just my 2.5 cents and it's pictures from the internet but you're in engineering grad so I at least know you can over think it.

[Seanz0rz]

Power tank just isn't an option for me. I have enough in the cab already, and am already having a hard time finding a good spot for the other pressure vessel I keep in there (fire extinguisher). I can also see me forgetting to refill and end up having to keep my old MV50 around just in case.

I REALLY like the idea of the york, but the fact I'd have to move everything around, coupled with the possibility of swapping engines soon, I don't know that it would work out.


Mike: Can't put a battery at the air box, snorkel and all. I have ABS (and like it) so that system will not be moved, same with cruise control. I have the emission components just ahead of where the Clutch master sits (if i were a manual), and Cali frowns on removing (or even moving) that stuff.

[4x4mike]

that was my thought Steve, but 25 bucks for the 100% duty cycle sounds nice! I just wonder how important the difference in CFM is going to be? It looks like the heavy duty actually airs up faster than the constant duty.


It also depends on tanks. Unless you have at least a 5 gallon tank I think you're system will be free flow air after 2 tires. That's when cfm comes into play. Tanks get big fast but you don't have a spare so you have options. Piett (I haven't seen him here in awhile) had a Viair that he kept in a tool box. That thing put out some air but it was giant and no doubt had a high retail price. It wasn't had mounted so it was like a professional MV50.

[troyboy162]

I've had two friends stop using C02. They are good for seating beads but honestly I think you can seat beads with anything if you fiddle with it enough. These are friends who wheel alot so it would be expensive to keep them filled.

[Seanz0rz]

Yeah, I am looking at a 2.5 gallon tank mounted underneath somewhere. Wonder if the york fits on the 4.0?

[4x4mike]

I REALLY like the idea of the york, but the fact i'd have to move everything around, coupled with the possibility of swapping engines soon, I don't know that it would work out .

Prototype stuff now so it's ready for the re-power if that's happening soon. I know a guy if you're interested, you can pay him with Diet Dr. Pepper.

Take some pictures of your engine compartment and hang them up. After staring at them for awhile you'll start to see where things will fit and you'll get excited to build it up. Bringing up cost again, think about it. With a York it's all bolt on to something that's already there and there is really only one place it can go, over the alternator. One battery can go near the stock location and the other on the passenger side fender. Run some short wires, run some short air lines and you're good to go. Come re-power time you unbolt the few things from right in front of you, pop in your V8 and bolt everything right up :P

You get what I mean. If you plan it right bring your new motor to pismo when you're ready and we'll all help while you stand back and direct. I'm sure you can get some takers to turn wrenches.

[Seanz0rz]

I'd like to engine swap this winter. Reality is, it probably won't happen for a couple of years unless someone drops off a briefcase full of money or a free wrecked tacoma, 4runner, or fjc.

as for wiring the compressor, I already have an unused 5 awg wire going to the cargo area from when I had a bangin' stereo (I miss that so much!) so getting adequate power to the rear is no issue. I already have a switch in the cab for the relay.

Big question is, should I go for the MV90 and piece together a set, or the 33" tire set, 35", 37" Viair sets. Obviously, I like getting the most for my money, but I am also not in the mood for cheap Chinese crap! I have had far too much of that fail on me lately and I am getting pretty fed up with it.

[4x4mike]

Those viair outflow numbers are at 0 psi. I imagine they will perform similar to an MV50, just be higher quality.

[Good Times]

Sean,

I've got an ExtremeAire compressor. It's one of the original ones so I have no clue what it costs now. Their stuff has worked well for me so check them out as an option.

:)

[paddlenbike]

Mike's OBA setup is very cool. He usually has one of his tires done before I can get my hood open and my MV50 up and running. Then he is usually able to air up at least one of my tires after completing all four of his. That said, unless it's just Mike and I wheeling, everyone else uses an electric compressor just like me, so I'm never the last one finished airing up. In other words, the amount of time a small group spends airing up will always stay the same. I don't mind that 15-20 minute break after coming off a trail.

I think having an electric pump hardwired and plumbed and ready to use makes a big difference. If all you have to do is flick a switch and hook up an airchuck, for some reason it seems like so much less work than digging around in the hatch for the MV50 and getting it all hooked up. If I weren't completely tired of wiring things right now, I would probably go this route: (pics from slomatt)
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/albums/t4r_oba/IMG_2442.jpg

He also welded up the two holes in the factory trailer hitch and uses it for a small airsupply. I know you want to get away from the MV50, I guess all I'm suggesting is that regardless what pump you go with, having it hardwired is a nice alternative (I think) to a full blown York setup. I would go with the higher volume (not continuous duty cycle) option from the three you posted.

[Seanz0rz]

Thanks Ken. I was about to hard wire my MV50 like that, but since it has started giving me problems, I am looking for something with better quality. I too enjoy the time it takes airing up. Gives me a chance to do another once over on the vehicle to look for problems, dig a soda out of the cooler, grab some snacks for the drive home, etc.

Lance, those extremeaire compressors are super nice, but way out of my price range (hell, the viair is out of my price range!)

[4x4mike]

Here is another pic from my files. Again it's from the internet so I don't know whos it is or specifics. I can tell there is a Kilby combo pulley which will work with a GM alternator. The battery appears to be in the stock location.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-YVqfNBPNIU8/UTd2LJAbkwI/AAAAAAAA1_4/oqJ5wRAO5t0/s800/DSC02576.jpg

[4x4mike]

Replaced the pictures in my writeup.

http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?5324-York-for-the-3-4-liter

[mastacox]

Here is another pic from my files. Again it's from the internet so I don't know whos it is or specifics. I can tell there is a Kilby combo pulley which will work with a GM alternator. The battery appears to be in the stock location.


Google search by image FTW! It's a T100, hence the extra room for the battery.

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/t100/oba.htm
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/1950793-post3.html


I bet if you put a much bigger filter on the intake it would fill up tires even faster. Outside air is low pressure, so it needs a big filter to flow a decent amount of air. That's why the suction hose is bigger ID than the discharge hose too.

That filter looks tiny.

Also, I don't think you mentioned that you had to relocate your battery to put it there too...

Anyway, glad to see you got it working. :)

Hey, it looks like you put in a Chevy master cyl too. :cool:

If anyone cares, here's one I built for a non-supercharged 3.4L:
http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/t100/oba.htm

http://home.4x4wire.com/erik/t100/DSC02576.jpg

The SC forced Steve to do his differently, and on my T100 I didn't need to move the batt since there is plenty of room.

[slomatt]

My MV50 is still working fairly well after ~5 years of use. When I have time I plan to take the head off so I can port and polish the intake and exhaust and replace the reed valves, supposedly this makes a big difference. I also have a 12v Puma that puts out a lot more air but is much larger and doesn't fit well anywhere on the truck.

Here's a writeup on putting the compressor behind the trim panel in the truck.
http://wwww.blankwhitepage.com/automotive/2000-toyota-4runner/on-board-air

I'm lazy and haven't updated the article, but as Ken mentioned I sealed my trailer hitch so I can use it as a 1 gallon tank.
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/albums/t4r_oba/IMG_2859.jpg

I also added air fittings at the front and back of the truck which makes airing up much more convenient. The brackets fit over existing holes in the bumper and no new holes were required.
http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/albums/t4r_oba/IMG_5695.jpg

http://www.blankwhitepage.com/gallery/albums/t4r_oba/IMG_5703.jpg

- Matt

[4x4mike]

This head is pretty cool. I'd like something like this just for the cool factor. If space is tight it's a way to have a lower profile and help with routing intake and exhaust.

Nevermind the photo bomber, internet photo.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-Y3o4OHG_5P4/UcNs63EwZwI/AAAAAAAA59s/7arMsypRuJY/s800/YorkHead.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-uLRU_6wO4so/UcNs7ZWpC7I/AAAAAAAA594/akTP5Nv-Ieo/s800/YorkHead2.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

I will end up getting the Viair kit at some point, just not now. For now, I think I will try to fix my MV 50.

[troyboy162]

sean whats busted on your mv-50? I have a brand new mv 50 here with with the head from my old pump installed. you can have it if you want. it has one good flutter valve in the head but the other one is dead

[Seanz0rz]

I think the "sealed" motor is full of sand and drawing too much current.

I actually have a second that I tried modding but ended up cracking the head. I might try to swap parts and make one good working one, or just up size the wire to the one i have now and take out the fuse.

thanks for the offer though!

[troyboy162]

all this OBA talk got me to take my pump apart for maintenance. Is everyone ready for the laugh of the day? I took the flutter valves off the intake and was bending them flat when I decided last minute to port it while my drill was at arms reach. Porting looks great and would have yielded some good results due to the poor stock design. Problem is I ported the wrong side of the valve and ruined it :( I just wasted $130 in 10 minutes. It hurts so bad I had to laugh at myself.

[Seanz0rz]

HA! That's a bummer! I ruined one MV50 by trying to tap it to accept the standard quick disconnects. If I ever get a tig welder, I will fix that head!

Are you sure it's ruined? can you turn it over?

[troyboy162]

oh its dead lol. I drilled it good! I am buying another though so I guess it have spare parts at least....