Custom links

[troyboy162]

My links are in rough shape. The bushings are all worn and the lowers are both bent. Its time to make some since there is nothing good aftermarket. My buddy Jason has been on custom links for about two years now so I have followed his results.
-They must absorb some vibration or you will egg out your mounting holes
-Heims wear out each year (but are really cheap and preform awesome)
-1.5" .250 wall is the minimum
Lowers:
-14mm is our stock bolt size
-stock mounts measure 2.38"-2.36" in width-
Uppers:
-12 is our stock bolt size
-Stock mount measure 2.15" width

-stock link tube length is ~19" for lower and ~10.25" for uppers. Ideal is to run 1" longer then stock.



Materials research
Bottom links
Monster Krawler joint pro Width 2.375", thru-hole 14mm, shank 1" ,14 pitch right hand thread.
http://www.rockkrawler.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=Krawler_Joints

Metalcloak Duroflex forged Width 2.3125 Thru hole 14mm Shank 1.25" ?? pitch ??? hand thread
http://www.metalcloak.com/2-5-8-ODx2-5-16-W-Duroflex-Joint-w-Straight-Spud-p/7316.htm

7/8 shank Heim set
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/78X34SET15.html

Top links
Krawler joint pro Width 1.875, Thru hole 12mm Shank 7/8 14 pitch Right hand thread.

Metalcloak Width 2" Thru hole 1/2" Shank 1" ??? pitch ???hand thread
http://www.metalcloak.com/2-1-4-OD-x-2-W-Duroflex-Joint-1-Straight-Spud-p/7311.htm


bungs
1.5" ID 7/8 14 pitch for 2" X .25" Wall, 1.5" Tube ID
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/78X125HEX.html
1.25" ID 7/8 14 pitch for 1.75" X .25" Wall, 1.25" Tube ID
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/15X120DOM.html
1.5" ID 1" 14 pitch for 2" .250 wall 1.5" ID tube
????

1.5 ID 1" 14 and 1.25" 12pi
http://www.trail-gear.com/rod-ends-and-link-material



Tube:
1.5" OD .120 wall 1.25" ID
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/125X120DOM.html

2" OD .250 wall 1.5 ID
http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/2X25DOM.html

[4x4mike]

A couple of questions since I've thought about doing this. How will your version absorb shock if you use hiems? What about using larger diameter tube so you can install factory bushings in your custom arms?

You've got a lot of rear lift with big tires. Is 1 inch longer enough? What about threaded inserts and jam nuts to adjust the length? Would you/do you need to lengthen the upper links?

[4x4mike]

Your links work now. I see you've linked tube inserts.

[troyboy162]

Hiems on both ends for a truck that drives to the trail is a no-go. Jason found that egged out his link mounting holes as well as the wore out the hiems. Any link that uses hiems needs something with rubber on the other end. He now uses high flex bushings on one side of his links. I kinda like the idea of Krawler joints on each end but that might not provide enough cushioning.

Factory bushings are a joke for this application. Even my well worn, sloppy bushings bind badly. Thats tough on my thin link mounts as well as wears out the bushings fast. For street those bushings are amazing but once you strap land cruiser shocks and beat on them they bind, tare and die.

One inch is what Jason is running right now. I'd like to push the axle as far back as possible but they still have to tuck in the wheel wells so its looking like an inch is about it.

[Good Times]

When my 4runner was running I had my rear with heims on all four and never had problems. And I probably put on a good 25k on it most of which was probably on dirt. Maybe I just got lucky! I did however cut my stock mounts and replaced them with 0.25" plates on all four corners so that's probably the biggest difference so maybe it's not a fair comparison.

Links I used are all FK High-misalignment rod ends (don't remember which one). Want to say 3/4x7/8 for my first links but I think I went up a size on the next set. Wasn't cheap by any standard. Hurt like a ****.

For the lower links I went super beefy. I don't remember what size I ended up with (only cuz the 4runner is nowhere near me at the moment so I can't go out and check) but I ended up double sleeving (if this word even exists?!) my lower links. The first time around I want to say I ran 1.5" x 0.250" and ended up bending them quite a bit on the trail. After running a thicker tubing for the lower I haven't had any problems at all. My gut says I went 1.5"x0.25" + 2"x0.25". I'll be going home this weekend so I can check then.

[troyboy162]

In 25k miles you put two sets of hiems on? That's about the replacement frequency Jason has had for them d but he is running them in a stock short arm setup that would multiply the wear compaired to your long arms.

[Good Times]

I should have clarified. My first set of arms were stock length lowers and they were heim-heim 3/4x7/8. I probably put in a good 20k miles and the heims were in good shape. Didn't have any problems what so ever and got a lot of use out of them.

When I went 4 link I needed beefier arms because of the length so I ended up getting new heims for the lower and reused the same old uppers. The new heims have probably seen about 5k miles. Overall the uppers have seen 25k so I'm pretty happy with the results.

I did consider delrin hinges on one end and heim on the other at one point (delrin at the frame and heim at the axle) but decided to just go heim heim. I forget why I decided to go that route but it worked out well for me so guess it's all good. I do remember spending a lot of time on pirate reading up on different variation / combination. A lot of great info there that'll definitely help everyone so keep that in mind for reference. Here's an old article that I read extensively during my explorations into using link ends (Link to article (http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Joints/index.html)). happy reading!

[4x4mike]

4runner is nowhere near me at the moment so I can't go out and check

It's 8:00, do you know where your 4Runner is?

I've seen different versions of the lower links online. I'd say it's usually 50/50, guys either building them or selling slightly used ones. Real reasons for selling slightly used ones aren't always shared but I suppose there is some trial and error.

Troy, I remember a year or two ago you mentioned your lower link mounts were getting beat up and may be bent. Was that the case? Are the worse now? If you're going to be placing an order with Ruffstuff (good guy by the way, he's very close to where I am and many have good stuff to say about them) what about getting some link mounting tabs? New tabs will be straight, thicker and you might be able to place them in a location that gives you better axle travel for your 35's/LC shocks/tall coils plus some link protection.

Just thinking out loud.

[Good Times]

yeah the 4runner is about 40 miles away from me. close enough but just far enough away that I don't want to go drive there right now. :)

Keep in mind that once you begin strengthening parts the next weakest part will show signs of abuse so if you're beefing up links and link ends I say beef up your bracket too.

Get something like this http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/CHLB.html or plate the existing lower mount with something from here http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/Linktabs.html

using ruff stuff's link for reference. feel free to buy from other sources but I've had great success with them and others. for fabrication stuff I wasn't really too "vendor" specific. Just went with whoever that had the sales and coupons at the time. subscribe to all of the vendor's newsletter so you get coupons via email and buy em when they're on sale. otherwise these brackets and tabs get super expensive fast!

[4x4mike]

Keep in mind that once you begin strengthening parts the next weakest part will show signs of abuse so if you're beefing up links and link ends I say beef up your bracket too.

Get something like this http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/CHLB.html or plate the existing lower mount with something from here http://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com/catalog/Linktabs.html



That's what I was getting at, weakest link.

$43 for the mount in the first link!

[troyboy162]

I decided against doing custom mounts since all my plans of raising the mount closer to the frame will make it preform worse then it already does. Eventually I would like to 3 or 4 link it but thats down time and effort I dont want or need right now with a stock front end. So the game plan is to beef the links and plate the stock mounts. Our stock lower frame mounts are quite proprietary in design and angles so I think a ghetto plating is all they will recievce. The mounts them selves will see less abuse due to eliminating the binding effects of stock bushings.

Lance your Hiems lasting that long is interesting. Jason is using ruff stuff hiems partialy due to thier cost being lower then most others. Both he and another guy experienced them wearing enough to get clunking noise as they developed some slop. Granted they never wore to failure or lost any function. Ruff stuff 7/8 hiems are $18 I think and the miss alignment spacers are reused when they are replaced.

Ive looked for other joints hoping to find something that will wear longer and also absorb some road vibration while still fitting. Thats been pretty hard. The Krawler joint is the only thing that meets all the requirments so far.

more later

[4x4mike]

I know Ballistic Fabrication screwed a lot of people but on paper their stuff seems well built and designed for long life. They are more expensive but if you're replacing joints every year that cost is going to add up, not to mention it's more maintenance. These joints are big so the force is being spread over a larger surface which they say helps the ride. More money up front might save money in the long run.

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-Joints-Bushings_c_12.html

[troyboy162]

I know Ballistic Fabrication screwed a lot of people but on paper their stuff seems well built and designed for long life. They are more expensive but if you're replacing joints every year that cost is going to add up, not to mention it's more maintenance. These joints are big so the force is being spread over a larger surface which they say helps the ride. More money up front might save money in the long run.

http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Ballistic-Joints-Bushings_c_12.html

there is plenty of good joints out there far cheaper then Balistic, but like most these are jeep width and will not fit stock 4runner mounts. That is the only reason I have zeroed in on Krawler joints, hiems, and bushings.

[Seanz0rz]

I'll keep my eye on this. So far in all the years I've been offroading, I have managed to avoid smashing up the lower links.

I would like some more flex in the back and my bushings are pretty worn out as well.

[Good Times]

$18 heims? heims come that cheap that's good enough for lower links? that doesn't sound right.

my heims for the upper were like 75 bucks (bro discount) and the lowers...well you can say it was stupid expensive (even w/ the bro discount). I wasn't about to cheap out on suspension parts considering the high speed stuff I was doing with the Total Chaos group. They love speed and I needed to make sure my junk wasn't about to fall apart because I decided to skimp on parts.

some other things to consider. those will uniball upper arms have seen it last a long time (50k miles) so if you buy the right product it should last a long time. though it also means you need to maintain everything well. but that's true in general for the whole truck.

happy modding! btw if you do go w/ the custom links, make sure to make 3. that way you have 1 spare just in case you bend it or things go haywire.

[troyboy162]

I'm not too afraid of cheap heims as long as the materials are good. non-rebuildable Heim joints are a industrial part and not 4x4 specific. They are more expensive with all the misalignment spacers and nut, but the joint underneath is likely to be a mass produced part. Your $79 units were probably bigger and rebuildable.

I gotta figure something out. I like my flexing but I hate working on the truck lol

[Good Times]

I totally understand Troy. The challenge is to try to get it as capable without mucking on it too much so that it doesn't becomes a chore to maintain. When I look back at my 4runner I wish I took a completely different route building it up. At this point I've gone so far that there's really no turning back but to continue down the crazy path.

I think I look at it at a different light now because I'm also driving the Land Cruiser and I feel that all of the mods that I've done to the 4runner was really "a bit over the top" per say. I'm sure many of ya will say "yeah you did go a bit too far on some mods... lol" but honestly I'm happy with the outcome and have enjoyed the ride so go figure.

:)

[troyboy162]

Sean this stuff gets expensive so the choices are stressful. The money is all in the joints and it sucks since all joints are slightly different lol.

this is motivation though...Look at the cheap components used and the top shelf price.
http://toyteclifts.3dcartstores.com/NEW-Fully-Adjustable-Rear-DOM-LCAs_p_105.html

[Seanz0rz]

The toytecs and others have their place. mainly for people who don't want/can't fab it themselves. I am kind of at that point. I don't want to make everything for my truck anymore. It would be nice to buy a piece of kit, bolt it on, and run with it. That being said, I am cheap and my cheapness does not lend itself to bolt on products.

[troyboy162]

I hear ya but these are pretty straight forward to make though I will be hiring Jason to do the welds with his TIG. No room for my bumbling on these lol

[troyboy162]

I talked at lenght with Jason the other night. Hes getting about twice the life out of his larger lower hiems and bushings then the upper links. Theory being that the upper link makes a lot of rotational moment being so dang short.

Ive continued looking....lots of nice stuff out there. Metalcloak would be the joints I would want for a 4 link some day and it turns out they have some new joints that will work in stock mounts. They are expensive as all outdoors, but also nearly zero maintenance.

[troyboy162]

parts ordered tonight
-metalcloak joints
-trailgear bungs
-dom tube from ruff-stuff.

The total price is stupid, but I hope these joints will carry me over to the next suspension setup if I choose to go to 4 link.

[troyboy162]

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130723_101157_zpsc7ade6d1.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

secksy!

Is it just my eyes, or is the top tube's OD bigger than the threaded insert's?

[troyboy162]

The lowers are 2" .250 and the lower is 1.75" .120 wall. That insert is only 1.25" for the threads

[4x4mike]

Daymn, those are beef!

Did you say you were going to have someone TIG them? I'm not sure if you're read or are reading the aluminum links posts on Pirate but it's amazing what guys are spending on links. Even still the durability isn't always there.

[troyboy162]

I've seen the aluminum links and the crazy prices, but that thread sounds interesting. The links are a bit big but its a compromise so i can fit larger joint shanks. I sold myself on the expensive joints with the intent of using them on a 4 link if i go there some day

[4x4mike]

Awesome. I'm looking forward to seeing these come together.

Are the more expensive joints and/or shanks larger? Will they require changes to the mounts on the axle housing?

[Good Times]

smart move Troy! them links definitely look pretty beefy. don't forget to reinforce the mounts cuz those will be next weak link. :) after that it's the frame but you've got boxed frames so you should be fine. (unless you do something crazy! ha)

[troyboy162]

I know I shouldnt expect much from trail-gear, but dang they have messed up my order! It started out they sent the complete wrong bungs for half of my order. The latest issue is one of the bungs had a incorrect package so I'm stuck with another LH thread one. They were great fixing the first issue, but time will tell on this one lol.

[The_Josh]

Hiems on both ends for a truck that drives to the trail is a no-go. Jason found that egged out his link mounting holes as well as the wore out the hiems. Any link that uses hiems needs something with rubber on the other end. He now uses high flex bushings on one side of his links. I kinda like the idea of Krawler joints on each end but that might not provide enough cushioning.

Factory bushings are a joke for this application. Even my well worn, sloppy bushings bind badly. Thats tough on my thin link mounts as well as wears out the bushings fast. For street those bushings are amazing but once you strap land cruiser shocks and beat on them they bind, tare and die.

One inch is what Jason is running right now. I'd like to push the axle as far back as possible but they still have to tuck in the wheel wells so its looking like an inch is about it.

I have custom links with heims on both ends including the panhard going on 3 years with a truck I wheel hard and drive everywhere
The heims are still in great shape with no noticeable wear

[troyboy162]

I've had two seperate friends egg out their holes and wear hiems. I don't know if its that they are wheeling harder or putting on more miles but that's what's happening and was solved in part by going rubber on one end. The Googling I've done has shown this to also be the time tested Jeep solution as well.
I'm trying metalcloak joints and i hope they are as trouble free and flexy as they claim since they sure are not the cheap solution.

[troyboy162]

links are finished but metalcloak sent one wrong joint. The lower joints are a bit of a bummer since the 2 5/16 are just a 2 5/8 housing with narrower shoulders on the insert. That means the housing is wide and will not give the advertised range of movement. Luckly for this application I shouldnt be anywhere near max flex and they should be fine. For internets sake, the housings are the same on both joints and its only the inserts that differ.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/1120051_10201720452391817_1007698344_o_zpsbb9d7ea1 .jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/1120051_10201720452391817_1007698344_o_zpsbb9d7ea1 .jpg.html)

[Seanz0rz]

Looks really nice!

what is that block on the left side of the factory lower link?

[troyboy162]

thats a stock '97 link complete with limiter block. Jason's truck had it, but other 97's didnt...

[Seanz0rz]

weird, I don't think I've ever seen that before.

Those look plenty beefy, especially the joints. Looks like it should give you many years of good service, even for you.

[Good Times]

looks good Troy! would like to see how it does on the trails and hold up to the abuse :)

[troyboy162]

its gonna require some agressive plating of the stock mounts haha. I wanted to avoid that, but the joints themselves will drag on rocks unless I protect them. The larger diameter makes them a rock magnet on both ends of the lowers.

[troyboy162]

test fitting tonight. The larger joints are doing fine in the room allowed with stock mounts. The upper links on the frame side are touching their mounts just a shade and may need a bit of clearanceing. I can extend my limit straps a bit more now.
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130814_191545_zpsdd72b4ce.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130814_191545_zpsdd72b4ce.jpg.html)

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130814_191733_zps6933c957.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130814_191733_zps6933c957.jpg.html)

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130814_191716_zps955d61dd.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130814_191716_zps955d61dd.jpg.html)

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130814_191454_zpsa8f7ff9e.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130814_191454_zpsa8f7ff9e.jpg.html)

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130814_191427_zpse457d4bd.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130814_191427_zpse457d4bd.jpg.html)

[Seanz0rz]

Fancy!

[Good Times]

Troy, you gonna cut your stock mounts and just replace em entirely? or just plate it and call it a day?

[troyboy162]

I am cutting the bent front face of the mount off and plating. Its already not fun lol

[The_Josh]

So how come you decided on those mounts versus heims? And what did they end up running? It seems like once the suspension cycles a lot there may be more rubbing issues. By nice work so far!

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[troyboy162]

the mounts will be kept stock and plated. That decision may have been foolish for the amount of effort needed to plat them, but the wheels are in motion. I decided against hiems because they dont hold up to what I do. Everything I researched showed they were a bad idea for anything but a buggy(possibly due to longer, low movement arms). My friend who I wheel with is replacing his third set now and that takes him up to the price I paid for these joints. Metalcloak isnt very old but I think the engineering is sound. rebuilds are $30 for MC so if they turn sour I am not flat out screwed.

rubbing is already taken care of on this truck when I moved to the 35s. I havnt changed where the tire will travel.

[The_Josh]

What kinda wheeling do you do exactly? I've been running heims on my truck for over three years now and I run tons of trails like the full Rubicon from loon to Tahoe, Fordyce, Mojave, death valley, pismo. So it sounds like that must be mild stuff compared to what you do?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 4

[troyboy162]

I dont know what to tell you Josh. Jeeps dont use heims often on links and that says something right there since they are cheaper to get then johnny joints that have become a jeep staple. The heim immediately shows slop when it begins to wear and can not absorb vibration which accelerates wear. If I had to guess why my buddy goes through heims more then you I would say its frequency of use. I mean we are going to the hammers, but flex under stress is flex under stress regardless of the mojave or clawhammer. We go every weekend and that wears things out fast. Going often is what I like to do

I thought possibly the ruff stuff joints are inferior to expensive joints. I really don't think this is the case since many joints are built in the same factorys. Pirate 4x4 thinks they found who manufactures them for ruff stuff and some other offroad company. I thought about wear and the fact my short arms move the heims wear surface more then a KOH buggy.

I took a chance on the MC joints and I think Ive found a happy point where longevity dosnt hamper flex. The marketing is true so far about micro and macro movements so that should add some miles to their life

[troyboy162]

troyfab poop welds and all but the fronts mounts are done.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/IMG_20130816_211621_zps9ba512dd.jpg (http://s723.photobucket.com/user/troyboy162/media/IMG_20130816_211621_zps9ba512dd.jpg.html)

[Good Times]

looks like it's ready for a good beating now :D

that should last ya awhile until you break something else and require more upgrades!

[4x4mike]

Good job. Doesn't look fun considering nothing about that mount, even unmolested, is flat.