uh-oh...ripped a hole in my floor

[DHC6twinotter]

Not sure how this happened.

http://i1339.photobucket.com/albums/o712/avro200/IMG_9364_zps939a78d1.jpg

Left front nut on the driver's seat ripped out. I noticed the seat had a rattle about 3 weeks ago, and a few days ago it seemed to get worse. Now I know why.

Now I need to find a body shop to fix it. Any body shop suggestions in the LA area?

[Seanz0rz]

just for future reference:

http://www.toyotapartszone.com/oem/toyota~menber~front~floor~cross~lh~57452-35040.html

[CJM]

Id sooner find me some angle iron to put under into the body and some very large high grade washers. Bodyshop is gonna charge you an arm and a leg to fix that one.

[Seanz0rz]

There is no access from the underside. It is a cross member that is welded to the floor pan and contains the two front bolts for the seat.

I say, if its more than 150 at a body shop, then I would be willing to attempt it for him. Probably cut out the left side and match it to the new piece, then carefully weld it all in.

[DHC6twinotter]

Id sooner find me some angle iron to put under into the body and some very large high grade washers. Bodyshop is gonna charge you an arm and a leg to fix that one.

The part is about $50. I can rip the trim and carpet out myself, so I'm hoping I can find a body shop willing to work with me. It would be nice to have the paint match, but if I can save a bit by them just spraying it with something to keep it from rusting, I'm fine with it. It's under the carpet and nobody will see it.

The seat is an important safety item, and I'd like to have it fixed properly. Hopefully it won't be an arm and a leg.

[CJM]

I hear ya. Thought there was access for it.

If you close enough let Sean weld it in for ya imho. Or find someone who welds, trust me a shop is gonna want to charge alot usually.

[troyboy162]

Mine was fixed before me. The guy dremeled out toward the door so a box end wrench could get in there. Then he just put big washers and a nut

[Seanz0rz]

hah, he's staying at my place and is about 15 feet away!

I haven't done any thin metal welding in a LONG time, I will have to practice a bunch first to get the settings and speed right. Too bad I don't have a tig!

troy, strange! I didn't realize this was a problem with the 3rd gen 4runners. I will be checking mine after the trip!

[4x4mike]

I haven't seen this before either. Could it possibly be the result of a vehicle accident? There are a lot of forces involved and it's a pretty hidden spot to be checked or notice anything wrong.

Sean, if you've got a gas set up on your mig you should be able to do thin stuff. My old bottle was going to expire and just traded it in for cash because I didn't like dealing with the shop. Without a bottle and using flux core, thin stuff is much harder.

[Seanz0rz]

Yeah, I am physically capable of doing it, but I don't have much experience with anything thinner than .060, and I usually end up blowing through that.

[DHC6twinotter]

I haven't seen this before either. Could it possibly be the result of a vehicle accident? There are a lot of forces involved and it's a pretty hidden spot to be checked or notice anything wrong.


I checked the carfax before I bought it and everything checked out. No reported accidents.

First time I noticed this was when I lifted my butt up to get my wallet out of my back pocket. I heard the seat pop. This action probably puts some stress on the back of the seat and forward bolts. I do this pretty often too, because I always forget to take my wallet out of my pocket. Some of the rough roads I've been on in the past few months probably haven't helped either. Saline Valley Rd in Death Valley was pretty rough.

[paddlenbike]

Saline Valley Rd in Death Valley was pretty rough.

Saline Valley Road is brutal--hours of washboard road that feels like it takes years of life off a truck. My 4Runner really should rattle like nobody's business; I'm not sure why it doesn't.

http://farm5.staticflickr.com/4063/4590915288_bf2b0a10ca_z.jpg

[4x4mike]

I checked the carfax before I bought it and everything checked out. No reported accidents.

First time I noticed this was when I lifted my butt up to get my wallet out of my back pocket. I heard the seat pop. This action probably puts some stress on the back of the seat and forward bolts. I do this pretty often too, because I always forget to take my wallet out of my pocket. Some of the rough roads I've been on in the past few months probably haven't helped either. Saline Valley Rd in Death Valley was pretty rough.

Leaning back like that does put a lot of stress on a seat. I've been in two ski boat's where the captains chair has broken off at the base making a similar move.

[DHC6twinotter]

Yeah, I don't ever want to see that road again. I wasn't aware how bad that road is, and I was too frustrated with my slow pace to enjoy the scenery. Pretty sure I got airborne a few times there as well. :D

I lost the bolt for my battery tie down somewhere on the road. My battery ended up on top of the alternator and ripped the body ground out. oops. :laugh:

Looking back, I don't know how I made it through without more damage. What a pain. I Passed the turnoff for lipincot (sp?), and the pile of broken u-joints and other random parts wasn't very comforting. I loved the drive from Saline Valley Rd to Teakettle Junction, and I wouldn't mind doing that again. I'd be curious to see if the 15 mile stretch of the south end of Saline Valley Rd down to 190 is any better.

My fog lights rattle, but that has been there since I bought the 4Runner. And I have a rattle from underneath somewhere. That's been there for a while, and I haven't been able to track it down. Might be a cat.

Anyways, I'm going to get some estimates tomorrow. I'll let you guys know what I come up with.

[DHC6twinotter]

Leaning back like that does put a lot of stress on a seat. I've been in two ski boat's where the captains chair has broken off at the base making a similar move.

And me being a fat guy probably doesn't help. :D

[paddlenbike]

My truck has seen Saline Valley Rd three times now and each time I swear I will never do it again. I boiled over my shocks and on the last trip I knew something was getting ready to fall off but I couldn't track it down. By the end of the trip I found that all of the bolts that hold the windshield washer reservoir in the fenderwell had come loose and the only thing that kept it in place was the crooked filler neck! Then I got home and the next day the truck wouldn't start. The battery didn't like all the vibes. So yeah, brutal. Maybe I should check my seat!

[YotaFun]

Soo, I had a response typed up and apparently it didn't post so here we go.
This is now the 3rd instance I have seen myself of this happening.
I am starting to think this might become a issue with the 3rd gens, especially the ones in the rust belt areas or that have high humidity, or it rains a lot.

My hypothesis as to why this is happening are a couple,
1) When it rains feet get wet, when feet get wet, carpet tend to get wet. while I am sure Dan's carpet is nice and clean and has had a floor mat in it for some time, there is still the off chance someone could rest there foot near there. Carpet absorbs the moisture, rests on that spot, begins to rust.
2) A/C evap drain can clog up, when this happens the evap box gets full of water and then eventually overflows onto the carpet and floor boards, usually this is contained to just the passenger side floor, but I have seen cases on really humid days where both driver and passenger side floors are soaked.

My buddy repaired his buy doing something similar to what Troy did.
He patched up the whole then drilled a new one, cut a slot out to fit a nut and wrench in and tightened it down that way.

[paddlenbike]

I have seen this before too.

The fix is to weld a nut to the back of a tab and weld that to the seat support bracket.
http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/corvettekorn/3rd%20gen/null_zps045f17cc.jpg

Childrenofbodom on t4r had the issue recently. It must be a mica green 4Runner thing. :)

[Seanz0rz]

Avy, I felt around the inside of the channel and there is no signs of any corrosion of the metal. No rough surfaces, bubbles, etc.

Ken, I like that fix! I have a feeling that may be a better option than replacing the whole piece.

[YotaFun]

That's a plus if there is no other signs.

Ken, Its an Anthracite Metallic issue too :-P

[DHC6twinotter]

Thanks for the input.

I spent several hours this afternoon getting quotes from various body shops. The cheapest I found was $75 to weld in a washer over the hole. The cheapest proper fix was 100 for labor, plus the price of the part. That's if I take the trim and carpet out myself. The price includes some rust preventive paint, but not color matching. If I do the color matching, it's an additional $100. I think this is the route I'm going to go, just without the matching paint. Should be about $150 or so total. The shop that quoted this price to me seemed to be the most knowledgeable, and they had excellent ratings on yelp and google.

The highest quote was $352, which included everything...removal of carpet and trim, new part welded in, and color matched paint. Another shop didn't want anything to do with it.

Anyway, I'll try to get this fixed some time next week.

[CJM]

Id do the fix ken suggested and not worry about the color matching. You could always go online or to a local parts store that does paint and have a rattle can made up if it bothers you.

[4x4mike]

Dan, what did you end up doing?

Chalk one up for another Imperial Jade Mica 3rd gen. I make it a point not to post pictures of my holes on the internet but we're like family here.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-0xS7MQjOhvk/UhWNtW-BXfI/AAAAAAAA_i4/DMJCenwsm7U/s800-Ic42/20130821_205816.jpg

I've owned my 4runner since the last week in 2007. It came from a few hours away and before that was a few hours the other way, all in CA. As far as rust goes on my 4Runner I have none. None of body panels, none of the frame, axle housings etc. I crawl all over looking for it and the very little I've found is on the surface and is taken care of.

This is rusted from the inside out. I don't know how moisture gets in there but it took out the baby tack welds that held in the nut. I'm not sure how I'm going to go about this. Part of me thinks 3 out of 4 will do the job. Another part of me wants to repair it but there are several ways. Maybe weld in a thick patch, measure 14 times, make one hole and tap it. Welding in a patch with a nut on the back side might be a little more work. Or just enlarge the hole, mine doesn't look as hollowed out as Dan's, and weld in a nut.

The factory piece isn't in there all that well and even then it's welded to thin metal so it doesn't have to be bomber. Everyday there seems to be something new, blah.

[4x4mike]

Color matching is of no importance here because it's under the carpet. It will get sprayed with whatever is closest.

It appears the original hole had 3 small holes around it. I can't tell if these holes are reliefs in case of an accident or for welding in the nut. I've seen a few cars that were in bad accidents where the driver was trapped by the steering column/dash. Sometimes it's easier to cut the seat, or break it from the base to move the victim backwards to get them out. This could be part of a breakaway system. If that is the case I may just tack a nut in from the back side.

I'll dig around at the local Ace. I've had good luck with the non coated square washers and welding. Now only if they have them in metric. Or maybe I'll just use some thick plate I have, tack it in and tap the hole?

[paddlenbike]

Strange. The first time I had ever heard of this was about six weeks ago. Then a few days later I saw Dan's post, now this one. The strange thing is it has been all Imperial Jade Mica trucks, by coincidence I'm sure. I will have to check my holes too...er, or whatever you want to call it.

[4x4mike]

Like I'll be saying from now on, "check your hole before it's too late."

[Seanz0rz]

I think it is due to the bolt being loose, then pushed up and down, fatigueing the metal. Mike, you had rust, Dan's did not. I'll have to check my evergreen pearl metallic for problems. My drivers seat has been in and out a dozen or more times, never noticed anything.

[paddlenbike]

This
http://i595.photobucket.com/albums/tt38/corvettekorn/3rd%20gen/null_zps045f17cc.jpg

wouldn't take long to do and is a permanent fix.

[DHC6twinotter]

I haven't done much about it yet...lol. I ordered a new floor piece ($50), and I found a local body shop that will remove and weld in the new piece for $100, if I take out the trim and carpet.

The next week is going to be busy for me, but hopefully I can fix it after that.

Sorry to see you've got the same problems Mike, but I'm glad I'm not the only one.

[Seanz0rz]

I think that area gets exposed to moisture from water and snow on shoes coming into the footwell.

Mike, you and Dan both have 5spds, I wonder if it is something to do with the constant pushing of the clutch with your left leg, lifting the front of the seat up and causing fatigue?

[4x4mike]

Well I went to sleep last night thinking about this and woke up ready to tackle it. Two jugs of coffee later I had it completed. Pretty easy actually. The rust in the above picture is just dust. The trim piece and nut had next to no rust, just rust dust. I have no idea why this fails other than it maybe a bad design and breaks upon over tightening. I've never removed the seats so it must have been like this for awhile.

Sorry for the hijack Dan, just wanted to share my fix.

This is the bolt from that hole. It came out easy and just has rust dust on it.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-pTXXBwv2H5c/UhZ2waoV_AI/AAAAAAAA_i4/M76gB3Sfnb4/s800-Ic42/20130821_215929.jpg

This is the nut. Next to flawless. Primer colored.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--p-PY1WkDMI/UhZ2_HuVLjI/AAAAAAAA_i4/O-pMtxsvals/s800-Ic42/20130822_093014.jpg

The backside has the 3 little ears that appeared on the trim piece. I think this is supposed be to break away.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-F6Ce-wJTA70/UhZ3Atl0K4I/AAAAAAAA_i4/pLfwIhKZkFs/s800-Ic42/20130822_093019.jpg

Before bed I made sure I had what I thought I'd need.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-56X2R-4sr3E/UhZ20MBc0HI/AAAAAAAA_i4/EpucpWsHgZQ/s800-Ic42/20130821_221530.jpg

[4x4mike]

I had a piece of 3/16 steel so I cut one piece and another piece a bit narrower. Some coffee later I had them stuck together.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/--IP9TC65lZ8/UhZ23SBd-zI/AAAAAAAA_i4/OZ14XUTb9IA/s800-Ic42/20130822_082023.jpg

I doubled it up because I wanted to drill a hole and tap it instead of welding on a nut. For one I didn't have a nut and this meant I didn't have to go anywhere. Another reason is that with a nut the patch piece had to be the perfect size and the nut in the correct place the first time for everything to line up. I'm not that good, am not supposed to be bending over and wanted to get this done. Thick patch it was.

Thick enough.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-AayftHSRNgU/UhZ249KgPdI/AAAAAAAA_i4/AVgzZ2zkP8g/s800-Ic42/20130822_082049.jpg

Used the patch to make a pattern then cut it out.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jU-AYU7GAzQ/UhZ2787rnFI/AAAAAAAA_i4/UEvwB3g5290/s800-Ic42/20130822_085705.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-vha_U57qiJ8/UhZ29gearPI/AAAAAAAA_i4/v-j-pdKbKco/s800-Ic42/20130822_090243.jpg

Got busy with breakfast for the kids and finishing my coffee so my pictures jump to this. Piece is welded in, welds ground so so, hole drilled after reinstalling seat with the 3 bolts, tapped and first coat of black.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-l4dkcVcg1eI/UhZ3EfUe5cI/AAAAAAAA_i4/eZjsvI4PLV0/s800-Ic42/20130822_130507.jpg

The hardest part of all of this was tapping the hole. I couldn't get my T handle in there enough to do entire revolutions and the hole was a bit small. Metric holes use metric drill charts and I don't have metric drills. Had to go under size, round it a bit and push hard.

M10X1.25
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-hGaZbFlBcr8/UhZ3FbI8KCI/AAAAAAAA_i4/GKsJ0eQYpR8/s800-Ic42/20130822_131119.jpg

All finished. For how much work this is it's a bummer it looks the same. Actually you can't even see it because there is a plastic trim piece that covers up the foot.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-L9cCx_2GX54/UhZ3GwwiFJI/AAAAAAAA_i4/AJNi4RtK8Fo/s800-Ic42/20130822_133654.jpg

As for why this happens I have no idea. The rear driver side bolt goes through the floor and you can see daylight through the hole. I don't mud or live in the rust belt so everything is clean and that bolt was as good as brand new. All the bolts were reinstalled with some grease on them.

[CJM]

I woulda just welded a bolt to it. Tapping musta sucked, get yourself a ratcheting t-handle. Home depot sells them for like 15-20 bucks.

[4x4mike]

I'll get one next time I'm there. I have been meaning to get one for awhile. Then today I had no drivers seat and knew I could finish it quick.

[troyboy162]

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-0xS7MQjOhvk/UhWNtW-BXfI/AAAAAAAA6xE/eMIWxfnqQc0/s800/20130821_205816.jpg


wow now it makes sense. That is a weak spot for sure. I would be tempted to fix mine better but its been working for 4 years with the ghetto fix lol.

[4x4mike]

There wasn't any rust in the cross member piece so I don't think it was a corrosion thing. It's just a weak spot but I believe it's by design. Before putting it all together I sprayed the inside of the cross member with Frame Saver and tried to get the backside of my patch.

[paddlenbike]

Nice fix. Now you let fat chicks drive your rig without worry.

[Bob98SR5]

key with thin sheet metal is the setting and clean metal. i have a 110v lincoln mig and i used C and 4 for my setting. Make sure you always are welding on clean metal. Also, tack weld on all 4 corners of the pieces you are welding and then fill in the gaps with weld. take your time, let the metal cool, then work on the other.

edit: looking at the pic again, what I would do is use a metal cutting hole saw, cut out the old metal, and then take sand paper drum on a dremel tool and carefully sand down to bare metal. i'd then use about 18 gauge metal (guesstimating here...its been awhile since i worked with sheet metal and thickness) and cut a hole using a slightly larger diameter hole saw. this will give you a piece that should give you a piece that perfectly fits inside or (better yet) a piece whose diameter is slightly larger. that's a good thing because you can trim the diameter down until it fits nearly perfectly in the hole.

[4x4mike]

I've got a Lincoln 110 machine as well. I tacked at C and in between 3 and 4. Once I got the corners in like you said I went down to B and kept the heat on my patch. In the end all that had to happen was a threaded hole to end up where it used to be. I used tools and materials I had at hand in completed it before lunch. So far it's been holding well.

[DHC6twinotter]

So, I finally brought the 4Runner in to the body shop last Thursday. Sean brought me over to pick it back up Friday afternoon. The shop drilled out the old part and put in the new one. They added seam sealer as well.

http://i13.photobucket.com/albums/a256/DH6twinotter/misc/IMG_9541.jpg

Got the rest of the stuff buttoned back up today. Now I have 4 bolts holding my seat down again! Woohoo!

[paddlenbike]

Just in time for Pismo!

[4x4mike]

Cool. Did you get a good look at the underside of the replacement part? Was it well painted or was it spattered over spray? Are you going to take any precautions to make sure it doesn't bust loose again?

[Seanz0rz]

From what I saw, the whole piece was coated in the standard black that seems to come on every new body part.

Looks like they did a good job on it. I still haven't had an opportunity to check mine, but it feels fine, and that's good enough for me right now.

[YotaFun]

If it came in the standard black, I'd do your own coat of paint of some sort, just as a precaution.

Other then that looks great!

[paddlenbike]

I plan to product-test my 13 year old one this weekend at Pismo.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Crazy that you guys are seeing so much of this. I had it happen in my 4runner, but it was a biscuit White 1st gen. haha

[TheDurk]

My nut cracked its tack welds when I pulled my seat recently (IJM 5-speed). I just drilled through the subfloor and bolted the seat in with a much longer bolt and secured with lock nut and fender washer. I guarantee it's stronger than the original mounting system.

[4x4mike]

Like you drilled through the bottom of the floor? With a bolt head or nut under the body?

[TheDurk]

Like you drilled through the bottom of the floor? With a bolt head or nut under the body?

Yep. Locknut and fender washer underneath, bolt head on top. I'm not the first, a couple on T4R.org have done this.

[4x4mike]

larryolson06, pictures have been fixed.

Did you have the same failure? What year and color is your 4Runner?

[habanero]

If it matters...
My 96's failed 3 years ago or so. Fixed it with a long bolt through the floorboard, and washers. Azure blue pearl, around 220,000 miles on it back then....this seems to be a pretty common failure.
The green 99 is still fine w/200,000 miles