BTF long travel kits? cheap?

[troyboy162]

Ive seen a bit of info over the years on custom kits being cheaper then the big names. About a month ago one of their kits came up for sale on TTORA. its a 2wd kit but they were shooting to make kits at $1600 and are advertising a kit for $1950 on their site. Does anyone have any info on them? I might call them, but I'm not that serious yet
http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn138/novam_2008/IMAG2644_zps2e807ca2.jpg (http://s303.photobucket.com/user/novam_2008/media/IMAG2644_zps2e807ca2.jpg.html)

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=197872

http://www.btf-fab.com/

[Seanz0rz]

I'll be interested when it is a 4wd kit that uses Tundra axles or a clever extension of our 4runner axles.

[troyboy162]

http://www.tacomaworld.com/forum/2nd-gen-tacomas/108804-1st-2nd-gen-long-travel-btf-fabrication-1600-worth-3.html

in that thread he touches on 4x4 and I agree the 3.5" wider kits that use stundra axles are the only thing worth looking into. Exotic widths mean custom axles and 1k more to the price after you set up a third spare.

[troyboy162]

94939192

I have continued researching cheap long travel and read about a company in vegas called MCM (machine cuisine). They have a really good reputation with the go fast crowd and are now offering a COMPLETE kit for $2600 with boxed lower arms. This comes with uniball upper tube arm, boxed LBJ lower arms, steering extensions, and FOA coilovers/Viper springs. Its a 3.5" over design so you have to supply your own 1st gen stundra axles. Above is the kit in action at the last TTORA big bear.

http://www.mcmfablv.com/

heres what I got back from the owner

The package includes the 3.5" over kit that is listed under the products section on the website as well as FOA coilovers and viper springs. 4wd axles are an extra 600. Or you can upgrade to ADS shocks for an additional 600$.

some uneventful clips of the kit in action. by the looks of it, I'd say his spring rate is a bit stiff for crawling but I dont really know much.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MrSCm9sV4W0

this ones a bit more interesting. The extra width looks to have made this less scary. This is from a couple months ago and at that time transitioning to the main line was something I would not try anymore.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYXq6ibDXDs

[troyboy162]

Hey Lance, how do you pick the right size shocks to make sure you have max travel? It seems alot of these shocks could limit uptravel.
foa 2.5" 16.5" to 24.5"
foa 2.0" 14.3" to 22.3" <---sounds better
sway away all sizes and types 22.9" to 14.37"
ADS 17.60 to 25.60 <-seems too long on both

[troyboy162]

Hey Lance, how do you pick the right size shocks to make sure you have max travel? It seems alot of these shocks could limit uptravel.
foa 2.5" 16.5" to 24.5"
foa 2.0" 14.3" to 22.3" <---sounds better
sway away all sizes and types 22.9" to 14.37"
ADS 17.60 to 25.60 <-seems too long on both

Edit:I learned a bunch on this stuff. Kits like camburg/ total chaos require 14.3" to 22.3" shocks to get the 13" travel and were based around a new (at the time) SAW shock. MCM has sourced 2.5" body shocks from FOA and ADS both with a 15" compressed length. The odd lower arm shape I would guess allow a .5" longer shock to still up travel enough.

I'm interested in the FOA shocks since they are cheaper and seem to be fancier then I really need. I got some info on the upgrades from one of the owners posts

The reason for offering upgrades is simple.....80% of the buyers just don't need the Viton seals or billet ends. If you aren't racing, don't bother with the Viton upgrade...plain and simple. The Buna-N seals we use standard are good to 250 degrees on a consistent basis. The cast stuff is CRAZY strong and less money to boot.
The original goal of these shocks was a cheaper alternative to the BIG guys. I run the basic shocks on my buggy....no issues whatsoever. All of our testing was done with the base model shocks as well. The main reason we decided to offer the upgrades are for the guys that want to use the shocks for racing.

I learned that FOA has valving options for both rebound and compression that you can order at no extra cost. Re-valving is even easier then motocross shocks. Entire shim stacks cost 6 bucks so you can tune like a pro for cheap. The other concern I had were using hiems on the shock bottoms where they would be dunked in deep creek. Well turns out replacements are only $8.50. I guess I can swing that ever so often haha.

I still have to figure out valving and spring rates. These are 600LBS coils and seem to be a bit stiff. His leafs may be soft though so its hard to tell
http://www.mcmfablv.com/files/QuickSiteImages/20130209_162303-1.jpg

found some info on pirate for valving from a FOA guy

That's generally the reason, as far as the slow rebound is concerned. I tend to go slower on rebound (Med) for dedicated rock rigs for more control in the rocks and less bounce off the ledges. I only go faster on rebound if the customer says it's also a trail rig that will see higher speeds as well. In that case..Med rebound is too slow and will pack in the whoops. If you have too much rebound valving...it won't drop out quick enough for higher speeds.
It's really hard to make the shock firm on slow shaft speeds and soft on faster ones. At least with enough of a difference to do what you are describing.
That's what Bilstein was doing with their digressive valving.... it's more involved than just different shims.

[Seanz0rz]

Troy, any update on this project? I know you have your old suspension for sale, so what did you end up going with?

[Good Times]

Troy my bad on not replying on this thread. Didn't know you specifically called me out on a q. doh!

The front and rear were based on geometry of what the max and min travel of the suspension. Works pretty easy once you get everything bolted up (w/o the shock/coil) and then let everything travel up and down (w/ the tire preferably so you can make sure it doesn't hit anything).

curious on what you've been cooking up!

[troyboy162]

Thanks for the replys. I ended up going with Mcmfab. They have got a shock special made from FOA and ADS to go with their kit. That way I didnt have to worry about the lenghts of the shock. I have seen there kit that they installed for a customer and they did not strap the shocks up front. That means they have designed the arms to match the travel of the shock correctly.

I will be starting the install in a couple weeks!!! The front end is figured out at this point thanks to MCM. All I need to due is reinforce the cam guides with bugger welds, and find three good stundra axles.

The rear is a bit of a nightmare since there is no one I can directly copy. I bought 12" travel FOA shocks and hope to make a similar set up to Lances work for me. The goal is 13" of rear travel, but that has not been done before on a 3rd gen. There is probably a good reason for that lol. I just hope to learn what it is and overcome it.

[4x4mike]

Cool. I'm looking forward to see how everything turns out.

[Seanz0rz]

Troy, if you need a hand with the install, let me know!

[troyboy162]

http://www.mcmfablv.com/files/QuickSiteImages/20130209_162303-1.jpg

Welp I've got the same issue as this guy with my spring rates....I got the standard 600 lbs springs and it dosnt flex all that great. I may have to try out some 500 lbs springs.

[Seanz0rz]

I wonder if you stiffen up the back a little bit if that will change.

[troyboy162]

That part of the issue with a large discrepancy between front and back spring rates. If I were interested in go fast I'd look I to it but as it stands a softer front end would still handle my needs I'd guess.
Right now it is kinda fun to blaze around d in though. Funny how a proper front end allows the back end to behave better too.

[4x4mike]

So everything is installed? How did it go?

Do you have a bench mark for how much flex you want? I assume it's more than your old set up but how much more and how much and you eek out of an IFS front end without building it from the ground up?


I thought this was the coolest back when.

http://images.4wheeloffroad.com/featuredvehicles/131_04z%2BWalker_Evans_Rock_Truck%2BLow_Angle_Fron t_View.jpg


There is also Bebe's H3 which is local to me. Her and her husband DD, or at least they planned, this rig.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/IMG_2842.jpg

[troyboy162]

Haha great pics. The front is almost done and she's drivable now. Next thing is to figure out a plan for the rear.

[4x4mike]

Find bebe's project on Pirate. Ruff Stuff and another local shop did a lot of the work which required changes to the rear. But like was mentioned above the rear and front have to play nice together. Maybe after you change up the rear you'll get more flex out of the front.

[troyboy162]

Find bebe's project on Pirate. Ruff Stuff and another local shop did a lot of the work which required changes to the rear. But like was mentioned above the rear and front have to play nice together. Maybe after you change up the rear you'll get more flex out of the front.

The front end is settling fast. Last night I got a much more promissing flex out of her and found the springs had shrank about a half inch. I tried to research coilovers settling but didnt find much info. I'll give it a couple weeks and see how they feel then.

[Seanz0rz]

Glad to hear they are settling a bit. Can't wait to see it in action!

[troyboy162]

adding pics while I wait for epoxy to dry. this is the mcm kit maxed with FOA shocks and ADS top hats. Its over 13" but this is not bumped or strapped.
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/long%20travel/IMG_20140125_114636923_zpsy4sb3qvt.jpg