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View Full Version : Clutch Master Cylinder, Slave Cylinder replacement and bleeding



Bob98SR5
11-10-2013, 01:12 PM
Edit: 5/16/14: I didn't adjust the pushrod length and it caused all sorts of crappiness under my foot. Read here to adjust it so that the clutch pedal height is correct:

http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?10628-Adjusting-clutch-pedal-after-slave-master-cylinder-replacement&p=111294#post111294


Well this one was a doozy.

As I posted before, my early morning starts on very cold mornings (even here in So Cal) have been challenging because the clutch (when depressed) would not allow gear shifting to occur. Things would get better once my 4runner warmed up. I decided to rebuild my master and slave cylinders, bought the rebuild kits, but discovered on a whim that Aisin mfgs new parts relatively cheap. I bought my replacement (new) clutch slave and master cylinders for less than $100. Due to time constraints, I was only going to change out the slave and do the master later. In retrospect, that would've been a horrible idea as bleeding is a time consuming b###h. But as fate would have it, both were needed.

So it was a very messy job, so no photos. But as many people recommend, change out both the slave and the master both at the same time. My master was jacked up and it would not push fluid at all once the slave was removed---but discovering this took a long time to realize because bleeding is a b###h. Lance and I struggled, changed out the slave back to the original one before Lance made a call to his mechanic buddy who suggested to change out the master too.

Long story short, here's some tips if you change them both out:

- Change them both out at the same time. Based on what I've read on the internets, both appear to fail at similar time frame. Plus, you really don't want to bleed twice!

Master cylinder
- remove the EVAP box. That gives you a lot of hand space to remove the MC. Take lots of photos just in case you forget where the hoses go. Believe it was 12mm bolts that hold the EVAP box down.
- Drain the MC reservoir using a turkey baster or the like.
- Use a flare nut wrench. Using a regular wrench tends to round out the nut on the line. 10mm
- Remove two nuts that secure the MC to the firewall. Can't recall if 10mm or 12. Lance, do you recall?
- On the other side, all there's to do is to remove the cotter pin from the roll nut (I think that's what it's called). Look at my clutch pedal bushing writeup and you'll see the cotter pin and roller pin (i think that's what its called; its brass in color w/ a flat rectangular end). Just pull out the cotter pin and then push the roll pin towards the left to pop it out. Now you can remove the MC

Slave Cylinder
- Through trial and error, best way is to remove the driver's side front tire and access the slave cylinder that way.
- There's a fitting that connects the line to the SC. Remove that. This is very time consuming.
- There is a bolt that secures the line to the transmission. It's to the lower right of the SC. Remove it to allow the line to wriggle free once you unthread the line from the SC. 12mm
- There's two nuts that secure the SC to the body of the tranny. 12mm. SC will just fall off

To reassemble:

- SC and MC: tighten down the nuts to the lines into the SC and MC body. DON'T secure the MC and SC first and then the line nuts. You'll go crazy, its not as easy.
- After performing the above, loosely secure the MC and SC bodies into the firewall and trans, respectively. For the MC, the fork on the driver's side end must straddle the clutch pedal itself. Once done, secure the roller pin and push the cotter pin through (was somewhat difficult, I'd use a locking pair of pliers next time to push cotter pin through)
- Once above is done, secure the bodies and then the flare nuts down. Don't over do the flare nuts. No, I don't know the torque specs.

Bleeding:
1) Since this was new to both of us, we had no idea if we were doing this right. It's a very time consuming process to bleed out the air because you are pumping the clutch pedal like nobody's business. So if there's a right way to do this, please let me know. But this is how we did it:

2) Person A pumps the pedal 20 times. One guy on the internet says flick the pedal with your foot, which causes the air bubbles to be jarred out of the lines and out the top of the uncapped MC reservoir. This seemed to work and Lance saw these little bubbles start to come out of the top reservoir. After the 20th flick of the pedal, person A holds down the clutch pedal to the floor and gives person B the all clear to open the flare nut.

3) Person B at the slave cylinder (with wrench at 9 o'clock) opens the flare nut to 6 o'clock and then pushes in the piston with his right hand to push out any air out of the SC body. Person B then secures the nut to 9 o'clock again and gives the all clear that the flare nut is closed.

4) Person A repeats step 2. Person B repeats step 3. Make sure to check the fluid level in the MC cylinder from time to time, especially in the beginning. Use DOT 3 brake fluid.

We repeated steps 2 and 3 about 4-5 times before feeling any firmness at the clutch pedal. The first few times, there was no pressure being built up at the pedal at all. I thought this wasn't working and bummed that something was not going right again. However after about the 4th or 5th time, I noticed one thing right away. When I held down the pedal and Lance cracked the line, I felt the pedal sinking even further down into the firewall. And once Lance closed the line, the pressure and firmness on the pedal increased. It takes a while, so be patient.

After the 4th - 5th time, Lance stopped pressing in the piston because the pressure was already built up and it was too difficult to press the piston in. That should be a good sign that you're doing the right thing. We must've repeated steps 2 and 3 (minus the pushing in the piston parts) about 15 times. Each time, the pushed in clutch pedal would sink less and less when the flare nut at the SC was cracked open. Oh, Lance said to quickly open and close the SC line. He did not too that in the beginning, airy foam would come out. Towards the end of the bleeding, just a tiny bubble or two would come out.

I drove Lance back to his place in LA and I could immediately tell that shifting was so much easier because I didn't have to press the clutch pedal down so far. I think I paid less than $100 for both the MC and SC (SC was about $25 as I recall).

I'm going to rebuild the MC and SC as originally intended, but I do recommend to just buy new parts as the cost isn't going to truly break the bank, these parts are very important to getting you going, and the time to bleed a second time will drive you nuts.


One more thing: I do have a brake bleeder which I forgot at home. Perhaps using one would've cut down the bleeding time.

4x4mike
11-10-2013, 08:31 PM
Good to hear you guys got everything back together. Do you think you slave had failed? Or did it just need maintenance? Mine feels good but probably not like new. If it's slowly wearing I'm just getting used to it.

Bob98SR5
11-10-2013, 09:09 PM
Good to hear you guys got everything back together. Do you think you slave had failed? Or did it just need maintenance? Mine feels good but probably not like new. If it's slowly wearing I'm just getting used to it.

Mike,

I don't think it failed, I just think it was worn and may have had a teeny tiny leak. Fluid pressure is pretty important to actuating that piston and for whatever reason, cold morning starts were a no-go. I noticed that I didn't have to press the clutch pedal down as far and it felt more positive

4x4mike
11-10-2013, 09:18 PM
Okay. I don't have to push mine all the way in but the pushing force has always been a little more than what might be normal. I know Kens feels like Marin's Subaru, light and girly. Mine requires a bit more.

Seanz0rz
11-11-2013, 08:37 AM
Thanks for the info Bob, I am sure as these vehicles get older, it will be a more common repair on the 5spds.

Mike, I don't even want to know how you know that Ken's feels "girly".

Bob, last I checked 4runners.org was down, any update?

Bob98SR5
11-11-2013, 09:51 AM
Bob, last I checked 4runners.org was down, any update?

I'll have to talk with Lance as the site is on his server.

Good Times
11-11-2013, 02:30 PM
This sounds like a lot of hard work but honestly reflecting back I would rank this is as a 2 out of 5 stars. The part that takes the longest is bleeding the line. When replacing both master and slave cylinders you've gotta get all of the oil into the system so that in itself takes a bit of time.

Somethings to note:
Remove the driver tire so you have direct access to the slave cylinder. If you still have your rubber panel covering the gap between the frame and body, you'll want to unclip those first. Once removed the slave cylinder is only attached by 2 bolts to the tranny and the oil line which is attached to the front facing side of the cylinder (if you're looking into the wheelwell the line is to your left of the cylinder. can't miss it cuz there's only 1).

I believe the master cylinder was a 10mm. Honestly if you have a 10mm, 12mm and pliers, you're in good shape for this job.

Once you've got oil in both master and slave, the most critical part is to get rid of the air in the cylinders. The you'll want the person inside the vehicle to pump the clutch a few times and then hold it down. On the first attempt, it's critical that you quickly open the bleeder valve and then simultaneously press on the piston into the cylinder. It won't take much effort cuz it's all air inside but this will force the bulk of the air to evacuate from the slave cylinder. Close the bleeder valve and then let the person pump the pedal again. If you think you didn't get all of the air out of the slave cylinder, you can redo the step again by opening the bleeder value and simultaneously press on the piston into the cylinder. If you get this right, the person inside the vehicle pumping the pedal should instantly feel some minimal resistance (comparing to no pressure at all).

From this point on the person inside will need to pump the life out of their leg and then hold it down while the other person bleeds valve quickly. I would say it's as quick as 1 sec (open/close). At first it'll spit out foam looking air bubbles and oil. After a few times you'll notice that it'll start to just become oil only.

Once all of the air is gone you'll know you've got the clutch pedal dialed in cuz it'll be nice and firm to the touch.

Note... this is a messy job! wear gloves!

Bob98SR5
11-11-2013, 05:43 PM
I believe the master cylinder was a 10mm. Honestly if you have a 10mm, 12mm and pliers, you're in good shape for this job.

Note... this is a messy job! wear gloves!

Add to this tool list, extensions. You'll need extensions to get the socket heads on the MC and the SC.

DHC6twinotter
11-11-2013, 05:50 PM
Thanks for the write up! I've been thinking about changing out my clutch fluid and bleeding the system. I don't know how my clutch is supposed to feel, but at times it seems inconsistent. It seems that sometimes I have to push it down further than other times. Maybe it's just me…I dunno.

4x4mike
11-12-2013, 08:11 AM
I'll have to talk with Lance as the site is on his server.

You guys don't have Bob's write ups printed out and in a binder?

In case you haven't yet: http://web.archive.org/web/20130403034926/http://www.4runners.org/

Seanz0rz
11-12-2013, 08:27 AM
Thanks Mike. I wanted to link to the article where bob pulls his door panel off in my mirror writeup.

paddlenbike
11-12-2013, 10:33 AM
As always, thanks for the write-up. Bleeding my "girly" hydraulic clutch system has been on my list for a while.

garrett
03-22-2014, 07:46 PM
Bob, did you get OEM parts? Toyota part sales is showing ~150 for new OEM MC and SC. Or did you get the Aisin stuff like trail gear handles? That looks to be ~100 for both MC and SC...

(http://www.trail-gear.com/brakes)

slomatt
03-22-2014, 09:09 PM
Like Mike I have a very heavy clutch pedal, and wish it was more girlie like Ken's. I wonder if the issue could be that either the master or slave cylinder has a small leak and is not transferring 100% of the pedal pressure?

I haven't bled the clutch on the 4Runner yet, but I have on my Discovery and it was a major pain. One thing that can help is to reverse bleed the system, you can do this by getting an old style oil can and then connecting the spout to the bleed screw on the slave cylinder and using the oil can to pump fluid up to the reservoir on the master cylinder.

- Matt

Bob98SR5
03-22-2014, 11:40 PM
Bob, did you get OEM parts? Toyota part sales is showing ~150 for new OEM MC and SC. Or did you get the Aisin stuff like trail gear handles? That looks to be ~100 for both MC and SC...

(http://www.trail-gear.com/brakes)

Garret, this is exactly what I bought:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/css/order-history/ref=ohs_order_orderid?ie=UTF8&hasWorkingJavascript=1&opt=ab&qid=&search=108-6640899-4365819&sr=

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EEY2WQ/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

No problems whatsoever.

Seanz0rz
03-23-2014, 10:09 AM
Bob, first link takes you to your order number, but I'm guessing you were referring to this:
http://www.amazon.com/Aisin-CRT-014-Clutch-Slave-Cylinder/dp/B000JZDAW6/ref=pd_bxgy_auto_text_y

Bob98SR5
03-23-2014, 12:30 PM
My bad. Trying again:

Aisin CRT-014 Clutch Slave Cylinder
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JZDAW6/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Aisin CMT-093 Clutch Master Cylinder
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008EEY2WQ/ref=wms_ohs_product?ie=UTF8&psc=1