AK fans? My current build up plans

[Bob98SR5]

Hey all,

I know most of you seem to have ARs, but I wonder if there's any AK fans out here. I've pretty much given up for now on building my AR for now. I own a MAK-90 that I purchased right before the GWB 1's AWB ban. I've read the hell out of the 922R federal law in order to "de-fang" it and build it with some more shall we say "ergonomically friendly" features, namely a pistol grip. Living in Kalifornia-stan, I would need to add a bullet button too. To be extra safe, I should by some US built mags too.

I'll post pictures later, but for all you AK builders out there (specifically non-threaded MAK-90s), the evil parts count of foreign parts is 15. I need to get it down to 10 or less. There's a great worksheet that I can't post from my trabajo, but basically my plan is to replace the following:

- Tapco G2 trigger group (minus 3 parts from the 15 above)
- US built stock set. I plan to make mine look more like a non-traditional look like an Israeli Galil and looking at Ace Ltd's stock set (minus 2). Lots of people seem to like Ironwood's designs of the traditional wood stock, so that's a 2nd option.
- Adding a bullet button. Haven't researched that.
- Buying some polymer magazines. I think Tapco makes them but I read they are so-so. I believe I read Intratec makes them too. Unfortunately 10 rounders will be the largest mags I can buy. FYI, if i use my Chinese mags, that adds back three to the parts count so I'd be out of compliance. Fawk the govt's stupid laws!

So I got the Tapco G2 trigger group and I also bought a Red Star shepherd's hook (doesn't deduct evil points) and waiting on some polishing heads to polish certain faces on the trigger group parts. I need to purchase a bullet button contraption. Any AK builders out there recommend one?

Fun, fun minus all this compliance bull####.

[4x4mike]

I don't own one or see one in my future but am a fan.

So you've had this thing for awhile? Do you ever shoot it? In it's current state isn't it a no no to have (other than a pile of parts), transport, shoot? I was looking at shot guns the other day and a guy walked in with a pre ban M1 Garand. They basically told the guy to get out, take it home, take a few parts off and never tell anyone he ever brought it to their shop.

[Bob98SR5]

I don't own one or see one in my future but am a fan.

So you've had this thing for awhile? Do you ever shoot it? In it's current state isn't it a no no to have (other than a pile of parts), transport, shoot? I was looking at shot guns the other day and a guy walked in with a pre ban M1 Garand. They basically told the guy to get out, take it home, take a few parts off and never tell anyone he ever brought it to their shop.

I've had this since the hmmm...1994? I think. I'll be in compliance as soon as I install the fire control group and the bullet button. That's just the gun itself. Then I'll have to buy some 10rd US made mags, so when I go shooting, i'll still be in full compliance.

I have not shot it in many, many years, about 3 years. The way it was configured (and how 922R works) is that if it was imported and in the US during that AWB period, it was legally grandfathered even though it has 15 evil foreign parts. So up until recently, I could shoot it no problems. But the problem becomes when you start to defang it. Then you have to remove 5 of the 15 evil parts. So you couldn't just put a new pistol grip and stock on it because that only lowers the parts count by 2 (leaving you with 3 more to hit the magic 10 number). And now I have to add a bullet button and use US built mags.

The whole thing is silly stupid just like our liberal politicians who think that defanging from foreign to US parts will somehow make people safer against a mass murder/criminal---who more than likely would care less about foreign vs US parts.

[Seanz0rz]

Never about safety, always about control...

The only AK I have ever fired was the 12gauge semiauto shotgun version. Most fun I have ever had...

[Bob98SR5]

Never about safety, always about control...

The only AK I have ever fired was the 12gauge semiauto shotgun version. Most fun I have ever had...

Sounds like a SAIGA variant. shotguns are fun :)

[04 Rocko Taco]

AK's are always fun, and MAK's are nice.

z0rz - Saigas are ALWAYS a blast.

I have a SERIOUS SERIOUS want for a VEPR 7.62x54R right now, about $1200 but it is an AK variant built around the russian 7.62x54R cartridge (from Mosin Nagant fame)

[fenrisx]

No pics in a gun thread with more than 1 post? Blasphemy!

I'm also a fan of AK's... I'll probably buy an AK before an AR... but I would like both. Luckily I don't live in Kalifornia-stan so I don't have to worry about magazine capacity and whatnot. At least not yet... this is a liberal state so I'm sure I will have to worry soon enough.

[Bob98SR5]

fenrisx,

I'll post up pics when I get back home. On vacation now. Of worthy note, the inventor of the AK died just a few days ago. His background is quite interesting as he was NOT a trained mechanical engineer by any means. He overheard some soldiers complaining about their current rifle and designed a submachine gun that addressed the needs of those complaints he heard. While this may be assuming too much, because he didn't have that formal training, he designed something that was simple and reliable--an uncomplicated weapon that any Russian conscript could understand and use!

[04 Rocko Taco]

For anyone interested (on the tails of Bob's last post, but trying not to derail the thread any further) here is a biography of Mikhail - a modern one, written with him, rather than some of the earlier ones that were mostly politically charged propaganda BS from the motherland.
I have read it and its a good read.

120 http://www.amazon.com/The-Gun-that-Changed-World/dp/0745636926

[Bob98SR5]

Here's the pics

Right now, it has a Choate stock set which helped the balance of the gun as the wood thumbhole stock was was too heavy in the rear end. I'm keeping the foregrip. On top of that, I replaced the top gas tube with an Ultimak gas tube for the purposes of adding a cheap reflex sight (which I haven't even tried!):

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3768/11629348713_3b81fc249e_c.jpg

Tapco G2 fire control group and Red Star Arms retaining plate (everyone said this was a good add on). Trigger group will be deflashed (casting ridges on certain parts) and polished in certain places. There are many writeups on this:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7416/11629118675_16d3332de5_c.jpg

Ace Limited receiver block (compact version) and modular stock set. Unfortunately the AK versions do not have a foam tube for cheek rest. The compact receiver block is flush with the receiver so the upper tang needs to be cut off. I'm sure purists will scoff, but I don't intend to sell this rifle.

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7387/11629987846_81a84b354c_o.jpg

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2887/11629210025_45e9e7f4b1_o.jpg

Finally, a Hogue pistol grip:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7315/11629444683_7e890d8313_o.jpg

I should be getting everything but the Ace Ltd pieces by the end of the week. Not sure about the Ace parts as I've read they take their time. In the meantime, I'll be polishing those FCG parts possibly later today. BMW is acting up yet again as of yesterday. I may sell that cursed car, it's one problem after another.

[stormtaco]

looks good i have never been a real big fan of them but it looks like a good shooting rifle, i have always liked the mini14 and of course my 10/22

[Bob98SR5]

Storm,

The 7.62x39 round definitely has a nice solid feel to it, somewhere between 5.56mm and a .308. All of the ARs I shot had a nice feel to it. Less recoil for sure! I'm trying to dial in the balance of this gun, hence the changes to the stock set and addition of the pistol grip. Internally, the new FCG should help with the trigger pull. It never had a trigger slap problem, but comparing the trigger feel/pull to any of the ARs I've shot, the MAK's stock trigger has much to be desired and improved.

[slosurfer]

Nice Bob! I'd get that bullet button on pronto, and then finish your AR! :)

[Bob98SR5]

Nice Bob! I'd get that bullet button on pronto, and then finish your AR! :)

Hey Chris,

Just remembered, but maybe you know better: I was talking w/ my girlfriend's friend's husband who said (and his friend agreed too) that since I registered this rifle as part of the Roberti-Roos registration act here in CA in the mid 90s, that I can configure this anyway I want and even use 30 round mags. I was skeptical, what do you know/think? Either way, I'm going to play it safe and comply with the 922R federal law because I can assure you that if I get stopped with this, a cop won't know jack sh#t and I'd hate to go through the hassle of it being confiscated and me trying to get it back.

Bob

[slosurfer]

If it is a RAW (registered assault weapon), then that is correct. You just need to read up on the rules for transportation etc... If it is a RAW, dont neuter it! Do your research and know your rights with it.

Sent from my tappy tappy thingy

[Bob98SR5]

If it is a RAW (registered assault weapon), then that is correct. You just need to read up on the rules for transportation etc... If it is a RAW, dont neuter it! Do your research and know your rights with it.

Sent from my tappy tappy thingy

I guess I'll need to read a bit more on modifications to RAW guns then. Thanks for the advice. I don't think I'm neutering it because I'm adding a pistol grip. My understanding of how RAW relates to the 922 law is that a RAW gun is/was legal in its original form. If you mess with any of it, then it is subject to 922R and need to get the foreign parts count down to 10.

I think its time to join Calguns.net. In the meantime, enjoy some more gun porn. This is my first polishing pass on the Tapco G2 trigger group. Close up photos sure do reveal where more work is needed. The casting seam is visible on some parts:

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3753/11642055643_88d9848615_z.jpg

I'm using a dremel head called Cratex. Its metal impregnated rubber tips. Good for the rough polishing and I"ll finish up with a true polishing wool tip with polishing compounds. Need to buy some of those tomorrow.

[slosurfer]

I was talking about the bullet button when I said don't neuter it.

Sent from my tappy tappy thingy

[4x4mike]

Looks like it's coming along.

I need to look into the Cratex head you speak of. I've used a couple different Dremel heads as well as some hand smithing tools with good results. So far I haven't had casting issues to deal with but it I haven't gotten into it too bad. On one of my newer pieces I took a red sharpie to contact pieces to see what areas needed attention. It also allowed me to see what areas have more contact than others.

[Bob98SR5]

Chris,

Ah ok. I'm going to send the CA DOJ a question about it just in case. They actually are pretty good at responding as I asked them about 3 yrs ago if I had to update my address. They said no. Amazing, huh.

Mike: send me your address and I'll mail you one. I have a bag of 10, only needed one to do the job

[slosurfer]

It will be interesting to see what they say. Best bet is too join calguns and research it. People have gotten really bad advice from ca doj depending on who answers your question

Sent from my tappy tappy thingy

[4x4mike]

Yeah, just like any State agency I'd get that in writing. It might be better just to use calguns for the info you need and act only when you need to. Having said that I'd write to DOJ with a fake name asking about a gun that a friend of an uncle might have to avoid a boat ride and extended stay in Cuba.

[slosurfer]

Yes, what Mike said.. you dont want to be the kid who asks the teacher if "one written page" means front and back...

Sent from my tappy tappy thingy

[4x4mike]

Chris,



Mike: send me your address and I'll mail you one. I have a bag of 10, only needed one to do the job

Did you buy a Cratex kit? I didn't realize they are rubber abrasives but i like that. Seems a little more forgiving and even if only used for clean up it will leave things nice and smooth. A quick google search shows kits which look very tempting.

[Bob98SR5]

I've asked the question re: RAW and modifications vis-a-vis 922R. We'll see what they say. I did ask for a duplicate copy of my registration. We'll see if I get one.

Mike: i didn't buy a cratex kit but just the heads. I bought a 10 pack of polishing heads too w/ an included dremel mandrel. I bought some polishing compounds from Lowe's today too. They were $3 each and different grit level:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7411/11659511293_441ddebd8a_z.jpg

Of course I couldn't wait to finish work to polish them!

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7374/11659260965_b02ffec384_c.jpg

Oh I wanted to add: polishing metal is pretty kick ass. I know, it sounds really benign and dull, but I guess its a "feel" thing. If I were to do this again, I'd buy some extra mandrels for each polishing type. that way you don't have to unscrew and replace the heads each time you change a compound type.



And then I rec'd this in today's mail:

http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7383/11660048426_80815605ff_z.jpg

I can see why everyone raves about Hogue grips. Of note, this one doesn't have a storage thing at the base of the pistol grip. That model is about $7 more. I think I'll stuff a hankerchief in the hollow space. I have bad allergies, lol :)

[4x4mike]

I'm not a huge fan of their pistol grips but I have plastic guns so I make due. I'd like to do a stippling job on one but otherwise the grips fit well.

I do however have the Hogue stock for my 10/22 and I really enjoy it.

[Seanz0rz]

I am the complete opposite, I much prefer the pistol grip. It lets me position my arm in such a way it does not hurt my shoulder. I have only held a gun with the Hogue grip, never fired, so I am not sure if I prefer that over any other. I did find a friend's knurled 1911 to be downright painful to shoot, cutting into my baby soft skin.

[4x4mike]

I guess I should say I don't prefer Hogue grips on pistols.

Pistol grips on certain rifles are great so in that respect I do agree.

My LC9 is nice and thin (and short) which is great for carry but requires the shooter to hold it pretty tight just to hang on. The plastic knurling can be a little rough on the hands. My G21 on the other hand is quite wide and comfortable in stock form.

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-jg6UsPcA914/UsMnlHTF-sI/AAAAAAAA8I8/9Bq9bxpXKJo/s400/20131231_122132.jpg

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-uacM4Zb2gIg/UsMnoQq6sqI/AAAAAAAA8JE/QYH4znAar3o/s400/20131231_122054.jpg

[Bob98SR5]

So got a call today from CA DOJ on my first request. Very professional but a little to hard to understand. I just need to submit a notarized letter verifying who I am as well as a copy of my DL. As for the RAW and 922r, I did some homework on Calguns.net, the relationship and it's what I thought: I can do whatever to the rifle but because I'm making modifications, 922r applies. What I couldn't find (but will ask other members tonight) is the magazine question (10 vs 30 rd). I didn't see a clear answer to that. Also, I didn't see if my RAW status would change if I made modifications.

I applied some grip tape to the foregrip last night too. I don't shoot with gloves and I always hated how my palms become sweaty and loose a little grip.

[Bob98SR5]

Ok cool, just updating you folks:

- Got my notarized letter at my bank for free (woot) and ready to send it to the CA DOJ tonight.

Got another call from another DOJ guy who was very patient and thorough answering my list of questions. Since its a RAW gun, I can add pretty much anything to it BUT within the confines of the Federal law 922r. They said that its actually the receiver that’s registered, not the entire gun. So modify as I wish, but again, within the confines of 922r. So I’m on the right track. The other things he answered:

- Possession and Use of 30 rd mags ok so long as I purchased them before 1/1/2001. But since my mods will bring it down to 10, the act of loading the 30rd mag brings the parts count back up to 13 (illegal). Confusing huh? So to be super duper compliant, I'm going to purchase some US made 10 rd mags, most likely from Tapco.

- No bullet button!

- Keep RAW paper work with the gun. He said that lots of people put a copy of it in the buttstock or in the pistol grip. He reiterated keeping the paper work together at all times with the gun.

- I asked for a written response and he seemed to hesitate, but then he said “Well since you did send a written letter, we’re obligated to send you a written response.” He did say it would require supervisor approval and might take some time, but I said it’s cool and don’t mind that it takes time and that I just wanted to avoid potential hassle.” He laughed and agreed that “It’s good you’re playing it safe”.

Just waiting for the Ace parts. No shipping notice. Be patient, be patient (says to myself)!

[Bob98SR5]

Stock parts arrived in early Jan and finally got around to doing the modifications to make it fit. First thing to do was to cut off the upper tang. This is one of the reasons why many don't like to use this rear stock receiver plate, but the universal receiver plate adds unnecessary length. Not to mention, AK purists would scoff at doing this. Anyways, I chose my path and I'm sticking to it. After cutting the tang off, I sanded down the excess and then inserted the buttplate receiver. The fit was very tight and it required it to be hammered down into the actual receiver. Used a wood block and rubber mallet to do this. Nervous, yes. But the plastic is of good quality. After that, it was just a matter of screwing in the butt stock and then screwing in the Hogue grip. The hardest part actually was screwing in the Hogue grip because the buttstock receiver has a piece that raises the grip retainer just a fraction to change the angle. Screwing it down took a good 10 minutes. Frustrating. But anyways, it's done. Definitely a lighter gun now, the pistol grip too gives the rifle a much better feel. Time to shoot. Need to organize a safe shooting party in the desert.

Cutting off tang
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3694/11893477743_9b8f56c396_z.jpg

Buttstock receiver in place. There are two positions you can screw the stock into with two allen screws
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3677/11893875926_3ccff1ae26_z.jpg

Stock and pistol grip
http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3771/11893881106_c222523053_b.jpg

After this, I will replace the fire control group.

Overall, I like the fit and feel. But range time will determine the final say. Has a Israeli Galil rifle look to it