Donaldson Top Spin

[Kryptoroxx]

I was looking through Amsoil's site. I have read about these guys for years and heard all of the stories about 10k on the same oil. Kinda crazy but the filter is the key. Anyway when I was looking for an amsoil filter for my FIPK I found this little toy and they have one in a size that could be used by us.....as long as we had some sort of snorkel on top. Am I the first to have this inkling or am I going down a well trodden path.

http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/air/donaldson-topspin-filters/?code=H002434-EA

I am well aware of these filters. They have them on the MRAPs and they do wonders in a heavy dust environment. I imagine that they would help with our little yota engines too.

[troyboy162]

http://soaztim.blogspot.com/2009/03/building-homemade-snorkel.html

Id love to do it. the model he uses to fit off to the side like that and still open the hood, does not flow enough CFM for highway. He used a deckplate mod for road driving.

[Kryptoroxx]

Ya know through my trials with the fipk led me to some custom fit parts from spectre performance. If you look carefully you can find aluminum pieces that would allow for a good seal and you could run that snorkel to the top of the cabin so the proper size could be used.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

I started looking at this again since I need to do some piping for my intake now anyways. The first time I looked into it I found a calculation that showed a max air requirement of 230 cfm with the v6. I dont know where I got that and I'm having a hard time finding it again, but the new questions are....

-the 100-200 cfm unit like soaz used looks like the best one for normal engine operations. Best I can figure with the online CFM calculators I found is that 2200rpm needs 106cfm and 3500 needs 168cfm. So you figure offroad driving is in that range and the small Topspin is effective.

-Problem is redline requires more then the unit is rated for. Does this rating mean it will not flow more air or the unit will not be filtering effectively? Soaz reported MPG loss and top end power loss. The literature shows airflow restriction increases pretty dramatically as well for the small unit. They make another slightly larger top spin that handles 150-250 CFM. That one wont be in its effective range very often although the restriction and MPG should be better.

So if I go with the larger unit will it be ineffective or are we looking at 90% effective? I cant say that I would want much of a MPG hit and I cant say that I go through more then 2 filters in a year lol. Makes this a tough call for me. Maybe I will break down and call Donaldson at some point

[Seanz0rz]

I think they are great for stagnant airflow situations. In reality, when traveling at a high speed, especially on a snorkel that is somewhat exposed to the air stream, you end up with odd high and low pressures on the cyclonic pre-filter, making it much less effective at both filtering and providing air.

For me, I am going to try one of those pre-filter socks that K&N and others use on their cone filters, and put it over my snorkel head to keep the majority of the dust out of my filter. As it is, I use a paper filter and blow it out often, and usually replace it once a year or when it starts to deteriorate.

[troyboy162]

The topspin gets rid of the dust and dosnt collect it. Thats the only reason I think it might be worth while on a truck. You are totally right about high and low pressures. With the old style that collects dust in a pile, it would be almost certainly forced into the intake at some MPH lol. There is still the question of air pulses and such. The soaz guy had good luck so its always interested me
old style...collects the dust in a pile...cant be good at high speeds
http://www.tacomaworld.com/gallery/data/500/medium/prefilter_012.JPG

Sock and ram inlet is probably the way to go for all around solution for best MPG. Engine RPM and speed should not effect it.
I see there are some new ones of those too.

I remember this one:
http://www.uniflow.com.au/contents/media/Droopie%20Half_masked.jpg

but I think this is new within the last few years.
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn174/ToledoFJ/IMG_5011.jpg

[04 Rocko Taco]

You guys must deal with serious dust out there...
I literally pull my air filter out at oil changes and knock it on bumper to knock the loose stuff out of it, and put it back, might blow it out if I have the air hose out already.
Otherwise I change it about once a year.

[troyboy162]

It can be if we follow too close or in the mornings when the air is still you might be in mild dust for a couple hours. I started looking back at it since I no longer have a wheel well liner and the filter is eating dirt straight off the tire. My filters are getting dirty quickly.

[Seanz0rz]

I, too, lack wheel well liners. Stupidly cut them out years ago. That is a major reason for my snorkel, get the air intake out of the dirt and hopefully into some cleaner air. Only a few times have I really sucked in large amounts of dust with it, basically nothing you can do about that though.

[Kryptoroxx]

You guys must deal with serious dust out there...
I literally pull my air filter out at oil changes and knock it on bumper to knock the loose stuff out of it, and put it back, might blow it out if I have the air hose out already.
Otherwise I change it about once a year.

Google 29 palms. That is where I am about 90% of the time. I was cleaning my k&n every oil change and could feel the restriction right before I did the oil. Amsoil filter so far is doing well. Still working on perfecting the intake but I will be looking into a snorkel type intake with a prefilter of some sort.

stamped and snail mailed

[Robinhood4x4]

We get these 2-4 times a year during the summer.

http://antinode.smugmug.com/photos/i-Gr9jXJ5/0/L/i-Gr9jXJ5-L.jpg

http://antinode.smugmug.com/photos/i-C9HNQfM/0/L/i-C9HNQfM-L.jpg

[Kryptoroxx]

Gotta love those things lol. I haven't had any multi day storms like in the sandbox but I really don't want to experience those either.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

Haboob! lol oh man in those you just shut your motor off. We cut most of the generators too. Then all the douche bags walking around with shemaghs (scarfs) 24/7 trying to look SF, are suddenly the only ones prepared lol.

[Kryptoroxx]

Haboob! lol oh man in those you just shut your motor off. We cut most of the generators too. Then all the douche bags walking around with shemaghs (scarfs) 24/7 trying to look SF, are suddenly the only ones prepared lol.

We had one in 2011 that seriously looked like it was used on the set of The Mummy lol. It hit like a train wreck. Yeah never did get the damn shemaghs. The gunners used them and I get that but I saw more of them on Leatherneck than anywhere else.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[04 Rocko Taco]

all the douche bags walking around with shemaghs

Heyyy.... wait a minute....

I have a couple of Shemaghs.
Not trying to look SF, and I never wear them, they are just in the gear bag.
Should we ever get a dust stomr in TN, I will be ready....

...or apparently just be a douchebag. haha.

[troyboy162]

lol nah its just a funny thing. Like Krypt said there's guys like gunners who they work well for; I just laugh about the guys who clearly think its a fashion accessory for walking around base with. I work with a few of the fashion types lol.

[Robinhood4x4]

The arizona variety aren't nearly as bad as the real ones. Most of the time they only last 15 minutes and you can usually still see when you're driving. You should see all the people who freak about about them here, like it's the end of the world and if you drive through it you're going to die and take along a bus full of nuns. I had an argument with some people on the trip adviser forums about it once...those guys are some of the most "sky is falling" nancy's ever, right next to the pop up forum people.

[SOAZ]

http://soaztim.blogspot.com/2009/03/building-homemade-snorkel.html

Id love to do it. the model he uses to fit off to the side like that and still open the hood, does not flow enough CFM for highway. He used a deckplate mod for road driving.

Hey guys. Randomly saw the link in my Google tracking stuff so I thought I'd chime in. The Top Spin worked great for the years of mapping work I did where I was in sand/dust/silt all day every day at the full time job. In fact, if I ever saw visible dirt in my filter I looked for and found a leak in the air intake somewhere due to vibration or poor sealing on my part. Once sealed any gaps I wouldn't see dirt again on the filter for months and months.

I would say it restricted it a bit on road, but to this day my buddy Jon still uses his with no deckplate and no issues. I just felt that I was making it harder for the engine to breathe (and it's so under-powered already I didn't want to make things worse) just like putting on a snorkel with one of the foam filters pictured above due to the increased distance and restriction. Did it really restrict it much??? My butt meter said no, but maybe a little.
Off road and at higher RPM's you could really see it spin FAST. In fact in snow offroading if some snow got into it I would see bits of snow mist thrown out the outlet hole of it quite a ways.

I sold the truck, but I sure loved that setup, no matter what it looked like. Also, it helped me cross the Verde River a few times, but I never wanted anything higher since at that height my interior would get sufficiently soaked already.

Have a good one!
Tim

[troyboy162]

awesome! glad to see you on here. I have been eyeballing your snorkel for years lol! In fact I think I may have internet stalked all your comments on various forums regarding the set up.

What do you think of the new 150-250 cfm spintop? The topspin you use is much better suited for our engines. I'm just wondering if the trade off in filtering efficiency to gain better airflow would be minimal or catastrophic

Your friend that keeps it on 24/7...do you know what kind of MPG hit he sees or dosnt see?

[SOAZ]

awesome! glad to see you on here. I have been eyeballing your snorkel for years lol! In fact I think I may have internet stalked all your comments on various forums regarding the set up.

What do you think of the new 150-250 cfm spintop? The topspin you use is much better suited for our engines. I'm just wondering if the trade off in filtering efficiency to gain better airflow would be minimal or catastrophic

Your friend that keeps it on 24/7...do you know what kind of MPG hit he sees or dosnt see?

If that's larger I would say it's not worth it. It only works when spinning and even at the size I had it would slow to a crawl at idle (when you don't need it too much). As soon as I accelerated it would take off. I fear that any less restrictive and it would take a much higher RPM to get it working properly.
Not sure what he's getting. I think with trucks that are built it's best not to know! haha. I could still get 16.5mpg driving conservatively with it on. I don't think it was a measurable difference with it off. It just seemed to react a bit quicker. Maybe it was just getting are in a bit quicker, but once you're moving it shouldn't restrict it much.

[troyboy162]

thanks for the quick reply and I apreshiate your info. I am leaning toward doing it now and ill update if I do.

[Kryptoroxx]

If that's larger I would say it's not worth it. It only works when spinning and even at the size I had it would slow to a crawl at idle (when you don't need it too much). As soon as I accelerated it would take off. I fear that any less restrictive and it would take a much higher RPM to get it working properly.
Not sure what he's getting. I think with trucks that are built it's best not to know! haha. I could still get 16.5mpg driving conservatively with it on. I don't think it was a measurable difference with it off. It just seemed to react a bit quicker. Maybe it was just getting are in a bit quicker, but once you're moving it shouldn't restrict it much.

The getting air quicker makes sense in a way. Airflow causes the top spin to work so we are adding drag to the intake process vs. a free flow CAI or stock intake. Probably more accurately we are slowing the increase of air volume to the engine.

Another thought is that these are designed more or less for diesel engines and if there is one thing I have noticed its the way diesels Rev slower than gasoline. Now there's a ton more vacuum behind a diesel as well so that would affect the top spin too.

[troyboy162]

So the pipes and junk all seem straight forward. This piece is a bit weird with the shape but it sounds like 3" flexible anything will seal up nice. Probably should measure the circumference
http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i114/yotarocket/DSC01006.jpg

or maybe run a silicon elbow through the fender to hook onto the air box itself. The stock elbow is a particularly hash bend. I haven't been in there to look for clearance but I would image it doesn't have to be as bad.
http://www.off-road.com/images/content/02-Deckplate7-7.jpg

this place sells the silicone couplers, pipes and things. I dont think there price is that great but gives you an idea of whats out there.
http://www.siliconeintakes.com/index.php?cPath=3&osCsid=c6713a9c6cf80dfe95dbd0dbd935e9ed

[troyboy162]

stole some more images. looks like keeping the stock elbow is not necessary and with that bend its possibly not desirable.

http://www.toyota-4runner.org/3rd-gen-t4rs/109438-bandit-runners-custom-snorkel-build-2.html

shows the 3" pvc fittings inside the 3rd gen fender on this custom intake
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii93/woltejt/Snorkel%20Build/PICT1264.jpg

plenty of room for even PVC.
http://i262.photobucket.com/albums/ii93/woltejt/Snorkel%20Build/PICT1260.jpg

[Kryptoroxx]

Wow that's a lot of room in the fender! If I can do it with pvc I might just do this.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

Lucky it's all based on 3" pipe and that's common. I've seen aluminum intake pipe, steel exhaust and pvc. Prices are not bad for the amount we need in any of those materials just gotta pick what's going to work the best. I can see pvc shattering from a rock in the cold but I also see that as unlikely. The other two may dent. Steel might rust from the sand blasting it will get in there but it's going to resist denting better.

[Seanz0rz]

Use black ABS. It should be better with low temperatures, and actually with high temps as well. You should have no problem finding it in 3" Sch 40, along with all the fittings.

[troyboy162]

I just read some info that complicates the pvc. To attach the Donaldson you need 3" outside diameter pipe. 3" pvc is actually 3.5" OD. The inner can still be pvc but the stack will have to be metal :(

[Kryptoroxx]

What I would do with the stack then is use a step down made out of silicone. I do believe I saw a 3.5 to 3.0 adapter with spectre performance on Amazon and then you would just need a small 2" piece to go from the adapter to the top spin. At least that's one way to skin the cat.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

Post up what you find for a diameter of the air box inlet. I'm leaning toward aluminum right now since my tire wont fling rocks that close in with the long travel. Depending on that diameter, I am thinking 3" 90 deg silicone elbow ---> ~2 foot 3" straight pipe ----> 3" silicone hump coupler ---> 3" L shaped pipe. I think the solid L pipe will give me more ways to secure the stack.

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/90_black_picture.jpg


http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/hump_black_picture.jpg

http://www.siliconeintakes.com/images/product/aluminum_90_picture.jpg

[Kryptoroxx]

http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/06/02/tuda2uje.jpg

Its right at 3.25". I just happened to have one laying around. Battlewagon picked up one that wasnt broken and I fixed the old one lol.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

Nice thanks! I wonder how stretchable the silicone hoses are? I can't find a 3.25 to 3.00 elbow. They only have 3.5 to 3.0

[Kryptoroxx]

Rubber would probably stretch to accommodate 3.25 with a little bit o lube. Silicone probably could but I think the plastic would end up flexing more.

Maybe using silicone as a lubricant would work. Then at least you wouldnt have to worry about the seal.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[Kryptoroxx]

No idea why my phone quoted what I just posted....and they call them smartphones.....ha!

However this is what is useful. Amazon has spectre performance. I used a couple of pieces in my intake and they seem to be of decent quality. Just make sure you're getting aluminum and not abs plastic. They do silicone as well as rubber adapters in all kinds of bends too.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_ss_c_0_19?url=search-alias%3Dautomotive&field-keywords=spectre%20performance&sprefix=spectre+performance%2Caps%2C212

You have to dig for it but the parts are in there.


Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

I see some 3.35 to 3.0 elbows now. I may not know what the heck im talking about but I figured the silicone will last longer. Granted that may be silly since I am using rubber all over that truck from 1996 without much problems lol.
are you looking at doing this soon? I wont be able to even think of it for another two months. That topspin looks to be about a $65 dollar filter. I figure my filter change freq will be cut in half so its not a bad over all hit.

[Kryptoroxx]

I'm in about the same boat as you are. I dd my ride so I have to get all the parts on hand before I do anything. I will probably start collecting parts in august unless all of my stuff on ebay sells lol. There are a lot of projects in line before I get to the snorkel.

Re-gear
E-locker Retrofit
Rear Disc Conversion
Led light mounting & wiring
Fog light mounting & wiring
Inverter install (little 150w)
Poly suspension & steering bushings
Parking Brake puzzle

The top spin will reduce the amount of filter changes I'm sure. We could drive around in Afghanieland for 3 months not even looking at the filter and while there would be dirt on the filter but it wasn't horrible. If it can deal with the moondust out there I'm sure it will help us out immensely even if it's only used on the trails.