Front diff is leaking, possibly shot bearing?

[Seanz0rz]

The last week I've noticed a growing amount of oil stains on the left rear tire, wheel well, fuel tank, link, etc. I figured it was was the rear diff leaking and spattering. I also drive in a heavy industrial area and pickup all kinds of nasty grime.

This evening I got under the truck to look and found a large amount of what turned out to be diff fluid on everything, but mostly concentrated to my skidplate. I determined it is leaking at the left half shaft at the oil seal. No big deal, new oil seal and a couple hours of working slow.

I do have a significant amount of play in the half shaft at the housing. both in and out and radial. I think this might be where some of my vibration is coming from.

I have a couple of questions for those of you who may have more experience with the front diff than I do.

How much play do you have? My passenger side is much much less than driver's.
Can I replace the bearings on the driver's side without touching the ring and pinion? (I don't think I can)
How much do you think a shop would charge to do it?

I appreciate the help. I am hitting the junkyards tomorrow in hopes of finding some other parts, so I might be on the look out for a good front diff.

[troyboy162]

in and out I have at least a quarter inch of movment. Radialy I'm not sure, but I'm sure there is some. That bearing would be an odd one to go since its oil bathed, but I guess its not impossible.
you could try using a broken CV to plug the driver side hub and take it for a drive. I dont think the diff will spin in 2wd that way. Its alot of work, but maybe easier then a diff change

[4x4mike]

I don't have much experience with the diff as it's always been fine. At one time I thought I had an issue but it was the front diff vent that burps up gear oil. Mostly after Pismo I'd find a wet diff whih always made my heart drop just a bit. I traced it down to oil coming out of the top of the vent, dripping down on the housing and the skid plate.

It sounds like you've narrowed the source down but I'd consider cleaning things up a bit and then seeing where it pops up again. I've seen a couple write ups for seals but I believe they were on 4th gens but I could be wrong. I think it's a PITA job but not so bad you should consider another diff unless you've got something broken or bent.

You mention play. Do you mean the shafts when the vehicle is sitting parked and in 2wd? I'll go out right now and give my shafts a tug, just for you.

[Seanz0rz]

Don't have a broken CV, unfortunately. Quite a bit of twist play as well. I don't think it isn't fully seated. Maybe I will try tapping it in more.

[Seanz0rz]

I tested me be in 4wd.

Ducking autocorrect.

I tested mine in 4wd.

[4x4mike]

As I put my gloves on and laid down on my back I was thinking, "SOB, if I find something wrong or leaking under here Sean is going to get it." Good news is it's pretty dark and nothing seemed too out of norm.

I grabbed the shaft between the two CV joints and tried to move it. In and out, side to side and torsionally. All I got was a super slight movement in and out. So slight I had to focus my eyes on the boot clamp to see the assembly moving. I bet it moves no more than a mm. This was the driver side. The passenger side was the same way.

I'll see what I can dig up about the seal and bearing but I'm sure you've already found what ever the Google pops up.

Did you ever get your vibration in 4wd? I' wondering if you can find a dirt road or somewhere that you can bring it up to speed and see if the vibes start.

If a junkyard diff is cheap and it's plug and play it might not be a bad idea to pick it up. That way you can take your time on your diff, break it down, clean it up, do a write up for us and throw it back in with minimal down time.

[4x4mike]

I tested me be in 4wd.

Okay Piratez0rz.
You posted while I was posting. Does this mean you tested it in 4wd? And the fact I think you said you don't have a broken CV means 4wd works? But what about the vibes?

With that much play I wonder if you have a ring and pinion wear issue or partial breakage that is causing the play, shot bearing and seal.

[Seanz0rz]

Grab the lobed piece that is next to the diff, not the shaft between the joints. Go up down, forward and back.

[Kryptoroxx]

Theres a diff in the riverside/hillside lkq when last there (about a 2 months ago). It has to be a 4.30 as it was a limited w/ diff lock.

stamped and snail mailed

[4x4mike]

Hard to get my hand in there with my skid plate. I don't think it moves at all. I guess the little play I felt could be the lobe or the CV's. Either way it was super minimal. I couldn't find much on google other than replacing leaky seals and dust shields. It sounds like you've got more than that going on.

[Seanz0rz]

Yeah. That's what I fear. Thx for the help.

[troyboy162]

post up on T4r for a broken CV. There should be one close by. If not I can see if Sheena can find one in the garage. I think I held onto them for hub plugs.

With a plug on the driver side and 2wd on the transfer case, the diff shouldn't spin nor should the front drive shaft. Passenger CV will spin but the jack shaft will not be engaged to transfer the movement to the diff.

[Seanz0rz]

No luck on a front diff at a junk yard. Found one in a heavily beat "trd" 4runner with painted calipers. it was covered in oil too.

I will be pulling it apart tonight and see what I find. I know at the very least I need a new seal, and I suspect it will be much worse than that.

Did manage to find the electrical terminals I needed.

[Seanz0rz]

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2898/14129785298_456b9342aa_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nwAQTU)

[troyboy162]

no chunks just shavings?

[Seanz0rz]

There's some small chunks in there. The fluid came out silver as well. I replaced the fluid not that long ago, maybe 10k miles? and there was virtually nothing on the magnet then.

I don't believe it to be the bearing. I felt the driver side and passenger side, they both feel the same, super smooth.

I just have the two front mounting bolts left, then I can slip it out. I have to dig the floor jack out of the garage to continue though. I'll go ahead and crack it open and see what is lurking inside. But basically, I am in search of a complete 3rd member with 4.10 gears. I will be calling some dismantlers near by to see if I can dig anything up. It needs to happen fairly quickly, this is my DD still.

[troyboy162]

crapper...I hope you can find a diff cheap. You probably can and I think you are good for any year so long as you swap your jackshaft side onto any clamshell so you retain the 4wd actuator that your year used. When I see them sold used I see them go for 150-250 with 410.

[Robinhood4x4]

It needs to happen fairly quickly, this is my DD still.

I suppose if worse came to worst, you could just remove the CV's or the whole diff and run around in 2wd for a while.

[troyboy162]

It's trickier then that because you need the outer housing of the CV at least to hold the bearings into the 4x4 hubs or something.

[YotaFun]

If you have a set of beat up CVs or know someone with some broken ones, get them, and do as troy said and use the outer joints in the spindles and ride around in 2WD till you find a deal on a 4.10, I did this for almost 6 months when I blew my 4.30 diff

[Seanz0rz]

I don't have a spare set. about a month ago I threw out my broken non oem axle because I didn't want to mess with it anymore.

I would have the diff out already but the passenger side front bolt is frozen in the bushing sleeve and the diff drop spacer. It's soaking in PB blaster.

I took a closer look at the fluid that came out. It's pretty silver, and there are some significant chunks of metal that came out with the flow. I predict I will find much destruction when I open her up.

[Seanz0rz]

Finally out, it was much harder than it should have been to get out, not sure why.
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2916/14322050394_fc8043b8e7_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nPAfBm)

[Seanz0rz]

Little spiders are missing most of their teeth. Big spiders look great (except the marring from the little spiders) and the ring and pinion look fantastic.

https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2903/14137485410_41635a6afe_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nxhiSs)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5514/14137563437_41cf38de06_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nxhH4K)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2923/14137444809_c3da9c854e_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nxh6Nr)
https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2925/14300950586_1a745ed77c_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nMJ7ny)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5117/14300948316_7ac162e252_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nMJ6Gq)
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5492/14322303642_b04e2453b3_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nPBxTG)

[troyboy162]

dang! You beat that thing up lol. Well at least you are looking for 410. Anything else would double the price. I do not remeber what I have left of my old front carrier but you are welcome too it. Everything was 200k miles though and the ring gear was removed if I remember right

[Seanz0rz]

I found a couple locally for 2-300. I will call tomorrow and likely pick one up after work. I don't want to have to do a setup on a ring and pinion. The pinion bearing also feels pretty crunchy, as does everything else. I will swap in the "new" one and keep my old one for a possible future rebuild with ARB and 4.56 gears. Maybe.

[Kryptoroxx]

I found a couple locally for 2-300. I will call tomorrow and likely pick one up after work. I don't want to have to do a setup on a ring and pinion. The pinion bearing also feels pretty crunchy, as does everything else. I will swap in the "new" one and keep my old one for a possible future rebuild with ARB and 4.56 gears. Maybe.

How soon do you need it? I'm re-gearing to 4.3 and I have 4.10. I've never heard anything from my gears and when I changed the oil at 244k there was very very little metal in it.

[Seanz0rz]

This week if possible.

[04 Rocko Taco]

I just guessed on FB without seeing any pics other than the drain plug.
All the 4.10 diffs I had were rears anyway.

I sure thought there as a local guy selling one cheap, let me look for a an hour or so and I will get back to you.

[Seanz0rz]

Got one. Long story short, So Cal Mini Truck hooked me up after another yard tried to sell me a rear as a front. Also gave me the wrong number for So Cal Mini. I'm pretty sure they are also trying to wipe a hole in the ground right now...

less than $300 spent, I'm happy. It gets installed Friday after work.

[troyboy162]

not bad...I got my seat and Stundra axles from socal mini truck. There yard is nice! Did you see there wall off to the right of the counter? its all wheeling pics from customers rigs.

[Seanz0rz]

Nah, I was in and out in a few mins. Got there at 4:45 and they close at 5.

I barely looked at it, but it looks good. I'll have to look at it more tomorrow night.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Got one. Long story short, So Cal Mini Truck hooked me up after another yard tried to sell me a rear as a front. Also gave me the wrong number for So Cal Mini. I'm pretty sure they are also trying to wipe a hole in the ground right now...

less than $300 spent, I'm happy. It gets installed Friday after work.

Good deal bud!
Suck about the first yard trying to do you dirty though.

[Seanz0rz]

Didn't do me dirty, just don't know their parts. I ain't even mad, just lost confidence.

I think I can just glue the gear teeth back on. Some JB weld and we got this!
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5315/14330972611_3676351a72_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nQnYSF)
https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3885/14147647139_2b4426170d_c.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/nyboAF)

[troyboy162]

I went to a bunch of junk yards looking for axles. Socal mini is the only one I didnt want to leave asap lol

[Kryptoroxx]

Got one. Long story short, So Cal Mini Truck hooked me up after another yard tried to sell me a rear as a front. Also gave me the wrong number for So Cal Mini. I'm pretty sure they are also trying to wipe a hole in the ground right now...

less than $300 spent, I'm happy. It gets installed Friday after work.

Yeah I wasn't going to be able to beat that....but I coulda beat the price though lol. You could always just linkon lock it and call it a day ;) lol!

[YotaFun]

Yeah, I guess maybe Toyota had a string of bad batch of spider gears, cause mine did the same thing, at least yours didn't take out your ring and pinion like mine did -_-

Mine was also 4.30 too, but I think mine went quick due to the lovely mud we have hear in the north east, or the snow, that when you are stuck and your are putting it to the floor and trying to get loose doesn't help those gears -_-

hopefully you will be back up and running soon!

[troyboy162]

Spiders, jackshaft and outer CV joints...Our front ends kinda suck lol

[Seanz0rz]

So after much effort, I got the diff in over the weekend, only to discover the seals are bad (spring came out of the passenger side). Ordered new seals from Marlin on Sunday, they shipped Tuesday, and I got them today, at 7pm. Too late to get it done tonight, so it will have to wait until tomorrow. Getting a bit impatient...

[04 Rocko Taco]

Too late to do it tonight?

Clearly not determined enough.
I spent the night before leaving for National Toyota Takeover a couple of years back laying in my driveway swapping trans and a bunch of other junk until like 0530AM. Then loaded it on the trailer, showered, and left for takeover by 0800. (With a quick stop for Waffle House breakfast)

[Seanz0rz]

Had to be up at 5 for work. I still have about 3 hours left of work to make sure everything is good to go. I will come home tonight and start. Needs to be up and running for Friday morning.

[Kryptoroxx]

Good luck to ya. I know I will be under a schedule when I tear into my truck too.

stamped and snail mailed

[Seanz0rz]

Done. Seals weren't too much of a PITA. Easier than the rear. So far, no leaks. I will keep the skids off for a few days or weeks to keep an eye on it. Took about 2 hours start to end, including clean up and test drive.

New diff feels real tight inside and the bearings are super smooth.

So, Kryptoroxx, when you do yours, I'd be willing to help and take some pics (it's hard to take pics when you are covered in grease). Basically, there is one particular trajectory the diff must follow in and out. That, plus the awkward shape and weight distribution make it very difficult to maneuver, esp with one person and on jackstands.

[Kryptoroxx]

Sure sounds good to me. Right now I am waiting for enough time to make it happen. I can't do it in my driveway on base so I have to go to the hobby shop. They have 2 post lifts that would help I think. I will pm you when I can set a date though.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[DHC6twinotter]

Cool! Glad you got it all put back together, Sean.