General Outfitting and Questions about Pop-ups vs. Just building something

[Kryptoroxx]

So I'm trying to nail down a list of stuff to pack up for camping and hitting some of these Overland tours that you guys frequently do out here in Socal. After being in the military I am very used to minimal personal gear but on the other hand I always know I won't starve and I won't run out of water. So here's my stab at starting small and including the family in the future. My little one's include one that doesn't walk yet and one that hasn't popped yet so the wife isn't going to be coming along for a little while.

Here's what I have for personal camping gear(not issued):
Rucksack (old Alice, can pack for a week in it)
Sleeping bag system (snugpak winter/desert setup)
Cot, hammock (or I could go with my usual shallow grave)
poncho liner
poncho
sun sail (16.5' triangle) http://www.amazon.com/Coolaroo-Triangle-Inches-Hardware-Brunswick/dp/B000P7FUM6/ref=sr_1_43?ie=UTF8&qid=1409623195&sr=8-43&keywords=solar+shade (this is a pretty good deal imo)
E-Tool
Knives
Multi-tool
Propane torch
LED hanging light
Headlamp
Hydration bags/Nalgene Bottles
Coolers
Enough 550 cord to make a mummy out of
First Aid Kit (more combat oriented but with some modification it will be more suited for peaceful outings)
Trash bags
Crates/bags to handle food and clothing. Cleanliness is baby wipes and wag bags...oh and an ammo crate to avoid squatting
A few MRE's in case of hell freezing over (yuck!)

What I plan on collecting slowly:
Camo netting pole set (for sun sail drive in/drive out)
Jerry cans for water 2x
Pop-up tent or custom trailer (m101, m353)
3x fuel/water jerry cans
Small Generator
DC fridge or freezer (if it's not in the pop-up)

Specifically for the 4runner:
On Hand:
27" jack (hydro)
spare/roadside tool set
extra fuses
extra oil
fuel jerry can
Tow Straps
Tow Chain

Planned:
Tire Plug Kit
OBA
Extra lighting (4 corner lighting)
Air Bag system
Recovery Points besides stock (sonoran steel has some nice ones for the front)
Rear recovery point insert for tow hitch (till I have a rear bumper)
Fuel Rack
Fold down table
Full Length Top Rack
Gun Safe (for pistol or two)
Winch
Hi-Lift Jack

We (for once) really want to do a pop up trailer but I have zero experience with them and had a few questions. My wife used to travel with her grandparents in one all over the West when she was a kid so that's how I have support from her

1. Is it really even safe to lift them? (not a lot but enough that I wouldn't be worried so much on a forest road)
2. Can I throw extra gear anywhere in them? (like a small generator)
3. Would it be possible to extend the frame say 10" to accommodate jerry cans on the front or back
4. If I pick one up used how expensive are the repair parts (I will probably pick it up used)

[Seanz0rz]

See my blog post on checklists.

http://www.ultimateyota.com/entry.php?4-Trip-Planning-The-Checklist

[Seanz0rz]

My thoughts (at 5:49AM, I am shocked I can even tie my boot!):

Bulk water storage is ok. From past trips, We've had a water jug break open (hopped up out of the bed and came crashing down), causing 5 of the 7 gallons to escape. For that reason, and also a packing efficiency and usability standpoint, I have turned to .5L bottled water. It is easier to handle, cook with, clean up with, etc. If you need to bail, you can toss a few in a backpack. It is easier to share with others, and it fits into a cooler better. Downsides are the cost and the waste. Having extra empty containers are not a bad idea in case you needed to capture automotive fluids, set traps, etc.

For example, Pismo, I will be bringing both. Bulk water for dishes, etc. and bottles for drinking. Mojave, I skip the bulk water altogether. The amount depends on a couple of factors. I believe you need a half gallon per person per day. That is what I usually end up using. I take 1 gallon per person per day. That extra bit could get you through being stranded for another couple days, or go a long way to refill a broken radiator. I carry more when it's hot, typically less when it's cold, but usually stick pretty well to the 1 gal per person rule.

Comfort items are a big deal to me. I don't mean a teddy bear (but hey, if it helps you sleep better, who cares!) but things like a good pillow, good air mattress or foam pad, a big sleeping bag, etc go a long way to making a better night's sleep. I know you are used to your shallow grave, but sleeping on a big plush mattress is pretty darn nice.

Tools and recovery gear: it will take practice. Working on your vehicle and pulling it and other people out will really tell you what you need. There are a few must haves, like a couple of GOOD straps, 2 or more shackles, good recovery points, and for tools a good socket set and a good wrench set (I prefer both standard and ratcheting wrenches, who want's to sit there turning a wrench for hours when it could take minutes). I over carry on the tool front, even after reducing it quite a bit. But, it's not just to fix my junk, it is also there to fix other peoples junk.

For trailers, that's a whole discussion right there. If I was going the pop up route, I'd build a frame under it with appropriate suspension, tires, vehicle connection, etc. and drop the popup on top of it. Use a 3 position mounting system if you can to avoid trailer flex damaging the box, although that shouldn't be a problem with a light weight single axle trailer. They aren't going to be a hardcore solution, and I think the worst roads for them are washboards. Vibrations like that will destroy a commercially built trailer in minutes.

[Robinhood4x4]

I have to get ready for work and I haven't read the whole thread yet, but here's my pop up build up.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?9864-Our-new-popup-camper

I'll do a better response later.

[Kryptoroxx]

My thoughts (at 5:49AM, I am shocked I can even tie my boot!):

Bulk water storage is ok. From past trips, We've had a water jug break open (hopped up out of the bed and came crashing down), causing 5 of the 7 gallons to escape. For that reason, and also a packing efficiency and usability standpoint, I have turned to .5L bottled water. It is easier to handle, cook with, clean up with, etc. If you need to bail, you can toss a few in a backpack. It is easier to share with others, and it fits into a cooler better. Downsides are the cost and the waste. Having extra empty containers are not a bad idea in case you needed to capture automotive fluids, set traps, etc.

For example, Pismo, I will be bringing both. Bulk water for dishes, etc. and bottles for drinking. Mojave, I skip the bulk water altogether. The amount depends on a couple of factors. I believe you need a half gallon per person per day. That is what I usually end up using. I take 1 gallon per person per day. That extra bit could get you through being stranded for another couple days, or go a long way to refill a broken radiator. I carry more when it's hot, typically less when it's cold, but usually stick pretty well to the 1 gal per person rule.

Comfort items are a big deal to me. I don't mean a teddy bear (but hey, if it helps you sleep better, who cares!) but things like a good pillow, good air mattress or foam pad, a big sleeping bag, etc go a long way to making a better night's sleep. I know you are used to your shallow grave, but sleeping on a big plush mattress is pretty darn nice.

Tools and recovery gear: it will take practice. Working on your vehicle and pulling it and other people out will really tell you what you need. There are a few must haves, like a couple of GOOD straps, 2 or more shackles, good recovery points, and for tools a good socket set and a good wrench set (I prefer both standard and ratcheting wrenches, who want's to sit there turning a wrench for hours when it could take minutes). I over carry on the tool front, even after reducing it quite a bit. But, it's not just to fix my junk, it is also there to fix other peoples junk.

For trailers, that's a whole discussion right there. If I was going the pop up route, I'd build a frame under it with appropriate suspension, tires, vehicle connection, etc. and drop the popup on top of it. Use a 3 position mounting system if you can to avoid trailer flex damaging the box, although that shouldn't be a problem with a light weight single axle trailer. They aren't going to be a hardcore solution, and I think the worst roads for them are washboards. Vibrations like that will destroy a commercially built trailer in minutes.

You're doing pretty good for 0600 in the morning. The only thing that gets me up earlier is stubbornness and the fact that it's the only time I can get a workout in consistently.

What I'm planning on working is one of these for either the back of the truck or on the front/rear of the trailer. The great thing about jerry cans is they rarely (if ever) break. I've seen a couple tumble from greater than 20ft on a loaded truck and not bust (then again about 5 of the 10 did so that might be the limit :rolleyes:)

204

My experience with pulling people out mostly involves a 60k winch....sometimes a snatch block (that feels like it weighs 60k) and the rest is history. Sometimes it gets more involved but that winch really does the trick most times.


I have to get ready for work and I haven't read the whole thread yet, but here's my pop up build up.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?9864-Our-new-popup-camper

I'll do a better response later.

That's a great buildup! I really enjoyed reading it and I am still reading about the site mentioned on the first page to help with arrangements and stuff. Just what I needed for the pop-up questions.

My main concern is keeping the weight down when I do it. I have a 4 banger and I'm not going to have any huge power increases unless God blesses me with my MSG tour in which case I will come back with at least one diesel LC and hopefully a D4D engine hanging out in the back of it.

I think a good max for a loaded trailer is 3500. I've hauled 5k with the 3rz and I felt vulnerable and a little like my butt cheeks were flapping in the wind at 65. Not to mention that hills were a living nightmare (went through WV and KY) and stopping was about the only good part of hauling that much.

Jayco Eagle -this is my top choice since it comes with all the conveniences of home, has decent clearance (I'm sure it could be lifted a little more), and folds out on 3 sides. The only downside is it weighs in at 3300lbs. Right now with me waiting on promotion this will not be my first step into camping without being ordered to lol.

[4x4mike]

In my opinion I'd wait. From past posts it sounds like you've got kids and/or have one on the way. I've also read you may be moved. I feel those variables are deal makers/breakers in the trailer world. I've got 2 kids, years 5.5 and 2.5, we travel everywhere in just the 4Runner.

We just got back from 4 days and 3 nights and all I had to add was my hitch basket for some fire wood and the kids bikes. I like to keep everything inside if I can because of weather, dust, aerodynamics and security. Our recent trip included a short cut, mistake by me, that took us on a 30 mile dirt 'road' that required 4hi and 4lo the entire time. This was all to go car camping at an established State campground and turned into quite the adventure. I had wanted a pop up trailer for years but I know for sure if it would had made the trip this past weekend it would be in the garage for repairs. Another thing that popped up in my head while driving home was that I was happy to be doing 70 mph on the freeway. CHP was out in force this holiday weekend and I would be hating life at 55.

A lot of our camping includes offroading if not a dedicated offroad trip. Shy of building something cool and heavy I would have to change the 4Runner and/or our travel a bit. I like the fact I can use a close to stock vehicle for everyday activities as well as wheeling and camping. I've thought about setting up a base camp and traveling from there during the day but a lot of our trips aren't like that. If we changed things to do that I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it for fear of coming back to it shot up and empty. Having a base camp at an established camp ground defeats the reason for having a trailer so I'm a bit torn.

My kids are growing fast. They are also loud and messy so a trailer and RTT has been less of an appeal to me lately. We also travel with families and where there is one jam handed kid there are five. So far we tent camp in quality tents, with gear and equipment that my wife and I have refined for almost 15 years now. And with kids it's changed and we're still kicking.

Cost wise building something is cheaper and in the end you'll get more of what you want. Time to plan and build is something to also consider. If you build something make it adaptable as a move to another region may call for a partial rebuild. Sometimes hard sides are better than soft sides. AC, heater and power are also items to plan for.

[4x4mike]

What I'm planning on working is one of these for either the back of the truck or on the front/rear of the trailer. The great thing about jerry cans is they rarely (if ever) break. I've seen a couple tumble from greater than 20ft on a loaded truck and not bust (then again about 5 of the 10 did so that might be the limit :rolleyes:)

204


My main concern is keeping the weight down when I do it. I have a 4 banger and I'm not going to have any huge power increases unless God blesses me with my MSG tour in which case I will come back with at least one diesel LC and hopefully a D4D engine hanging out in the back of it.

I think a good max for a loaded trailer is 3500. I've hauled 5k with the 3rz and I felt vulnerable and a little like my butt cheeks were flapping in the wind at 65. Not to mention that hills were a living nightmare (went through WV and KY) and stopping was about the only good part of hauling that much.

Jayco Eagle -this is my top choice since it comes with all the conveniences of home, has decent clearance (I'm sure it could be lifted a little more), and folds out on 3 sides. The only downside is it weighs in at 3300lbs. Right now with me waiting on promotion this will not be my first step into camping without being ordered to lol.


Keeping something lightweight is key. Of course a 3.4 and a supercharger would fix things but that's plopping down some cash. For me I don't want to do that in my 4Runner. If I had a trailer I know it would be a money pit. There is no doubt I'd be modifying the heck out of it every chance I had. I'm sure I'd cut weight in one place only to add it in another.

I use Scepter cans and have had zero problems with them. I've got two 5 gallon ones and one 2.5 gallon one. Off the grid, my family can go a couple of days on one 5 gallon one. At an established campground I bring the 2.5 gallon with water from home. For the most part it's just for drinking, plus it's way easier to pour from.

[Kryptoroxx]

Double post sorry

[Kryptoroxx]

In my opinion I'd wait. From past posts it sounds like you've got kids and/or have one on the way. I've also read you may be moved. I feel those variables are deal makers/breakers in the trailer world. I've got 2 kids, years 5.5 and 2.5, we travel everywhere in just the 4Runner.

We just got back from 4 days and 3 nights and all I had to add was my hitch basket for some fire wood and the kids bikes. I like to keep everything inside if I can because of weather, dust, aerodynamics and security. Our recent trip included a short cut, mistake by me, that took us on a 30 mile dirt 'road' that required 4hi and 4lo the entire time. This was all to go car camping at an established State campground and turned into quite the adventure. I had wanted a pop up trailer for years but I know for sure if it would had made the trip this past weekend it would be in the garage for repairs. Another thing that popped up in my head while driving home was that I was happy to be doing 70 mph on the freeway. CHP was out in force this holiday weekend and I would be hating life at 55.

A lot of our camping includes offroading if not a dedicated offroad trip. Shy of building something cool and heavy I would have to change the 4Runner and/or our travel a bit. I like the fact I can use a close to stock vehicle for everyday activities as well as wheeling and camping. I've thought about setting up a base camp and traveling from there during the day but a lot of our trips aren't like that. If we changed things to do that I wouldn't feel comfortable leaving it for fear of coming back to it shot up and empty. Having a base camp at an established camp ground defeats the reason for having a trailer so I'm a bit torn.

My kids are growing fast. They are also loud and messy so a trailer and RTT has been less of an appeal to me lately. We also travel with families and where there is one jam handed kid there are five. So far we tent camp in quality tents, with gear and equipment that my wife and I have refined for almost 15 years now. And with kids it's changed and we're still kicking.

Cost wise building something is cheaper and in the end you'll get more of what you want. Time to plan and build is something to also consider. If you build something make it adaptable as a move to another region may call for a partial rebuild. Sometimes hard sides are better than soft sides. AC, heater and power are also items to plan for.

I am waiting and looking although you are bringing up some excellent points. I'm still new at being a parent and everything you said I hadn't thought of.....but yet I can see it happening very clearly. To answer your questions it's yes on both accounts (except I'm waiting to move). I have a 1 year old daughter (Oct 1) and one due in March sometime.

One of the things about moving in the military is that it's usually free. For me this time it is not as I am moving from a 2 bedroom to a 3 or 4 bedroom on the same base and hopefully it's just a couple of streets over. I rent a Uhaul for the day and offer a free BBQ with beer to help me move boxes and furniture. Currently I'm looking for boxes everywhere and so far I'm doing well. I think I have about 20 to include a couple of dish boxes with filling. Cheapest moving guys on the planet that work for home cooked food and some beer.

I do have a hitch basket that I modified into a bike carrier but it's just bolts. I could easily unbolt everything and have a basket again. Good idea! That would definitely help expand the 4runner without adding $$$ to the drain.

[4x4mike]

You're only moving a couple streets!?!

I thought you had mentioned Kentucy or somewhere much farther.

My wife and I had the easiest time camping with the kids when they were babies, the first year. They were Spring babies so that meant they were only a few months old. That was sweet because they didn't wonder, Mom always had their food ready and they liked to sleep. We had a 4 person, 3 season REI tent that was perfect as you could fit a pack-n-play and a pillow top Aero bed in it. For the most part baby slept with Mom on the bed and would get moved as necessary. With a baby and a little older kid the space was gone in that tent so we got a Kingdom 6 REI tent. We're totally past the pack-n-play stage so the extra space gets used for our stuff and the kids rough housing.

A trailer would be nice, don't get me wrong, but it would take more money, time and tinkering. We have everything down to a science so I am able to spend most of my time enjoying being out. If I had a trailer I'd also want to use it for more than 'camping'. A lot of out trips are offroading and an offroad style trailer wouldn't be as useful for things like car camping, soccer tournaments/that style outting (I grew up spending a lot of time in RV's at events), etc. I already have a utility trailer for trailer stuff and am making due so far. Things, places and people are too flux to make a camping decision.

[Kryptoroxx]

You're only moving a couple streets!?!

I thought you had mentioned Kentucy or somewhere much farther.

My wife and I had the easiest time camping with the kids when they were babies, the first year. They were Spring babies so that meant they were only a few months old. That was sweet because they didn't wonder, Mom always had their food ready and they liked to sleep. We had a 4 person, 3 season REI tent that was perfect as you could fit a pack-n-play and a pillow top Aero bed in it. For the most part baby slept with Mom on the bed and would get moved as necessary. With a baby and a little older kid the space was gone in that tent so we got a Kingdom 6 REI tent. We're totally past the pack-n-play stage so the extra space gets used for our stuff and the kids rough housing.

A trailer would be nice, don't get me wrong, but it would take more money, time and tinkering. We have everything down to a science so I am able to spend most of my time enjoying being out. If I had a trailer I'd also want to use it for more than 'camping'. A lot of out trips are offroading and an offroad style trailer wouldn't be as useful for things like car camping, soccer tournaments/that style outting (I grew up spending a lot of time in RV's at events), etc. I already have a utility trailer for trailer stuff and am making due so far. Things, places and people are too flux to make a camping decision.

The Kentucky move is a maybe...maybe?

The only thing that I have found constant in the military is change. I have been here in the desert for 4 years and the way it looks (God willing) I will be here for another 2 which will be the longest I have ever been in one state my whole life.

I definitely have given tents a look and right now I am looking at a couple Wenzel and a couple of Kelty's. I love the space of the Wenzel tent but I know the reputation of Kelty much better and it's more in line with what we want weight wise. My wife and I are no strangers to hiking and I would rather be able to hike with it than park and drag it to where I would set it up. Although I am no expert with tents either....I usually don't have one. Here's are the links to the ones I am looking at. Any advice is appreciated. I have slept in tents or out in the stars in just about everything imaginable so weatherproof is something I am interested in.

Wenzel Klondike
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002PB2HPS/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=2GKVM4URO8H04&coliid=I30S8T4DAZNL3F

Kelty Trail
http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Trail-Ridge-Basecamp-Person/dp/B004GD7686/ref=sr_1_7?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1409693649&sr=1-7&keywords=tent

Kelty Arcadia
http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-40815012-Acadia-6-Person-Tent/dp/B005F5L92I/ref=sr_1_4?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1409693572&sr=1-4&keywords=tent

and just for kicks I ran into these too:
http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-40818813-Tailgater-IPA-Shelter/dp/B009R8OQNS/ref=sr_1_38?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1409693009&sr=1-38&keywords=tent

http://www.amazon.com/Kelty-Car-Tarp-Basecamp-Shelter/dp/B004HQRHW2/ref=sr_1_52?s=outdoor-recreation&ie=UTF8&qid=1409693160&sr=1-52&keywords=tent

[Good Times]

Sorry late into this tread but here's my thoughts on this topic. Great topic btw.

From the minimalistic point of view, less is more and will probably be easier when camping. The downside to this is that you and your family will need to be okay with the minimalistic style of camping. Nothing wrong with that but obviously with limited space in your 4runner it really makes you really plan/prep for minimalistic camping. (note that this in itself is fun too!)

Adding a trailer (be it a military trailer, rv style pop up or whatever light weight trailer) will mean you'll end up carrying more and like what Mike has said, be stuck on the trucker lane trolling at roller coaster speed to and from your destination.

For me, I've gone from 4runner truck camping to m416 trailer camping to rv camping more recently. The old person in me says the hell I'll go back to roughing it on the ground tent camping after years of RV camping. I guess you can say I've been rather spoiled by the luxury of rv camping so it's really hard for me to really look back and say yeah let's tent this sucker up and sleep on the ground. The only nice thing about truck camping is the ability to really go away from pavement and enjoy nature and be literally in the middle of nowhere. Now depending on how you build your military trailer you'll probably be able to get that sucker anywhere but that does make it challenging on difficult trails so you'll have to factor that in.

With a growing family in mind, you'll probably want to figure out what you guys think will work for you and your family and then go from there. You can't go wrong with truck camping like many of us have done and currently still enjoy. Some of us have grown to enjoy more "crap" so we love to haul more "crap!" lol. Others like myself love the luxury of the pooper/shower so it's hard for me to look back at anything otherwise.

The beautiful thing about collecting a nice array of camping gear is that you'll always be able to use em for a long time. I have a ton of camping gear that now sits inside my m416 trailer. (a ton is an understatement so don't feel like you need to skimp out. it's always worth it in the end).

Here's my m416 build up: http://www.ultimateyota.com/showthread.php?7348-Chaos-Edition-s-new-military-trailer

Looking at this it's missing a lot of pix. I"ll have to fix those links.

At the moment I'm looking at a travel trailer to tow behind my land cruiser (and hopefully my 4runner when back up and running) so that's my next long term purchase plan. No details on what kind of but it's open for discussion at Pismo. My m416 trailer will continue to serve me for remote camping destinations since the trailer is pretty rock solid with the new frame. The travel trailer will be more for pavement pounding rv accommodating travel sites when I don't want to camp in the sticks.

[Robinhood4x4]

Ok here's the skinny on off roading with a pop up. It's ok. The problem with them is they're pretty wide. Mine is the smallest popup for normal (not hardcore off road) trailers and it's about as wide or wider than my 4th gen so they don't work well for even the mildest of rock crawling trails. After lifting mine, I have about 2 feet of clearance under the frame and it's just about perfect, but I'm still limited to rougher than average forest service roads. I can still take it down trails that the average non-off roader would never dream of taking their grocery getter SUV down, but I'm always scared of needing to turn around. But, I'd have that fear when towing any trailer. I don't know how people do it on narrow, rock crawling trails.

The only reason I have it is because the wife wanted a bathroom, but I have to say it is very nice to have. I don't have to care about whether the camp site is flat and smooth because I'll won't be laying on the ground. I can pick a hill or a rough rocky area and will be comfortable. It's cooler in the sun than a tent, but it can still get hot. The outdoor LED lighting that I added sure is convenient when I want to cook or clean up etc.

Storage is a little problem because most of the storage is under the seats so I have to pop it up just to access the area. One of my next mods is to somehow cut an access door. Mine weighs less than 2000 lbs and the 4.0L barely notices it. Most of the time I maintain 70 mph even up in the mountains, although there are a few spots where I'll get bogged down to 60 mph. The popup forums will tell you not to add weight to the rear of the camper because it'll produce death sway, so you'll need to add it up front.

A word of advice on those forums...they're a bunch of pansies. They think camping is a full hookup campsite where you sit around watching TV all day. They have no concept of modifying a trailer beyond what the manufacturer has given you, other than little stuff like changing the lights to LEDs. Basically what I'm trying to say, is take what they say with a grain of salt. When it comes to the mechanicals and towing, I'd respect the opinions on Pirate4x4 before them.

So, in a nutshell, a popup is great for family camping but not so great for real off roading. If it were just me and the guys going camping, I'd just go back to the way I used to do it. Sleep in the back of the truck and setup the tent for my stuff.

[Kryptoroxx]

I'm really starting to like the idea of truck camping more and more honestly. The 3rd gen has a considerable space to it once you include top racks and rear basket plus the bonus of not being stuck at 55. Cali is the only state that does that though lol.

I think I've come up with the premise of how to pack and organize everything or at least a good starting point.

Everyone has a pack for their own stuff (clothing, entertainment, etc) and those can get stowed up in the rocket box for now. Camp hardware like tents, tables, big toys (when needed), go on the basket as they are inflexible and take space generally. Food, first aid, blankets, tarps, plates and other misc items are what go inside the cab plus coolers (best kept out of the sun).

I highly suspect we won't need the top rack for a while simply because we are starting small lol. Even with my personal stuff I still need to get stuff for the family like sleeping bags.

[4x4mike]

Sounds like you have the right idea. For the most part my rear cargo area is the same for most trips. I have three of the same ice chests. They are medium size and if we need more cold storage we pack two and use the second one for the later part of the trip. I use a 24 gallon size Action Packer as our kitchen box. I use the ice chest and AP to pin stuff against the rear seat. Stuff is always four camp chairs. At time it's it's also fishing poles, kids PFD's and sun shelter(s). Most of the remaining floor space is two Rubbermade bins we use for food. We can get 4-5 days of dry good food in them and they stack. On top of the wheel wells I stuff our sleeping bags, blankets, beach towels, LED lantern, battery box, tools and sometimes a water can.

From there I build up. I put padded moving blankets on top of the surface I created with the ice chests, food and kitchen box. On top of that I place our folding table, bags, large wheel bag with sleeping pads and pillows, tent, toys, gun cases, fly rod cases, softer crushable food and random stuff that could easily be grabbed out of the back window.

I've had my basket for years but only recently have I been needing it more. On this trip I was packing my float tube so I needed the extra space. On the way home the wood was gone and one of those AP's were empty. From a normal angle the license plate is a touch more visible but even when it's hidden I've never been pulled over.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-jHDd1U7Duuw/U80_ing7bGI/AAAAAAAA_Yw/Sj-pqFvQKAg/s800/20140718_164049.jpg

Tent that with the vestiuble has a footprint close to that of the 4Runner.
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-WOhUHG-0ViM/U80_mep45tI/AAAAAAAA_Yw/oM33WRdkfOE/s800/20140719_070952.jpg

This is a get'r done close to home trip. There is no way this would hold together offroad. There is also a pack-n-play and stroller in there which takes up a bunch of room. So glad to be over those.
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-t729vEKTDO0/Ue9OsHqYL6I/AAAAAAAA6Rc/P2wluBk4-VI/s800/20130629_095319.jpg

Another good load out. This was for a trip 45 miles from home but for some reason we still had to pack everything. The stuff on the roof hurt the mileage a lot. The wood was burned and there was enough room inside to put the rest inside for the return trip.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-kb5lVQG46oM/U65nI3ozbwI/AAAAAAAA-Rg/eztBFbcuCq4/s800/20140524_071408.jpg

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-8HbaGIkoXSQ/U65nKh8F7yI/AAAAAAAA-Rw/Jt-v5BQ3404/s800/20140524_071433.jpg

Putting stuff on the roof is still necessary but it's for a longer trip as I'm able to get quite a bit inside.
https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/--jehVDNsUi8/TGhFHFLQ-yI/AAAAAAAA_sY/k2WG_1BMqcc/s800/0716001639.jpg

[Kryptoroxx]

Wow you have got a lot of stuff crammed in there!!! I think I will do the airbags now that I've see how much stuff you go camping with.

I think I would do a custom trailer if ever get around to doing a trailer. One trailer I always see neglected is the m353. Here's a pic of it. This would be my choice hands down. The m101 is more of a trail trailer but this could be turned into a comfy camp trailer that is hardy enough to do forest roads.

205

I think the main reason is weight. It is designed to carry 60Kw generators so the leaf pack, rims, and tires weigh a ton but I believe the frame is only 200lbs or so. The way the axle is situated it would be perfect for a pop up type design to sit on top of the fenders and that would leave room for your generator, water, propane, gear, or whatever underneath. Plus you do NOT have to worry about it falling apart on washboard and you don't have to have any leveling jacks. They're built in the front. Unless I have gone crazy it's 16ft long and 8ft wide so there's plenty of room to build with as well.