Free CAD program

[Kryptoroxx]

Yeah Yeah I know what you're thinking but I'm testing this program out to see if it will work for my purposes. My desire is to have access to a 3d CAD where I can export in .DXF for personal laser/waterjet cutting of my designs for.....well anything I come up with. I have been using Sketchup and while I think it is an awesome program 600 bucks isn't an attractive price. Sketchup is the cheapest of them as well. I have a small advantage with my military status where I could get SolidWorks for $150 but I have no experience with that program and I don't know how much use I really will get out of it. Sure I could design a few parts for the 4runner but after that....who knows.

Here's a link to the review and ultimately to the site. For $0 how can I go wrong? I will post up my experience and whether or not it works but I figured it might be worth checking out for a few other people as well.

http://cad.about.com/od/Personal_CAD/fr/Freecad.htm

If you decide to play around with it please let me know what you think.

[Jaydee914]

Please let us know your experiences with it. I use Sketchup Pro daily but would love to have something a little more usable for actual 3D applications.

[Seanz0rz]

From my experience at work, it is actually pretty easy to create 2d DXFs for a laser or the like if you have a good understanding of how the part bends (if it is a bent part). If it is a flat part with no bends, then that DXF is no big deal.

If you have software that will calculate a flat pattern of a bent part, you need to know a couple of things. What die the job shop is going to use, and whether they are using air bending, coining, bottom bending, etc. This will determine the Inside Radius (IR) of the bend. This is used in calculating the neutral axis, which for this purpose, will be the length of the unbent part. There are a few ways to calculate flat part length, but if your CAD system is doing it for you, the easiest is to use the K factor. 0.45 is what we use at work after much calculation (.446 would be closer, but is inside our tolerances anyway) and seems to be pretty typical.

If you are using something like sketchup, creating a 2d dxf from a flat part shouldn't be too hard, but I am also not at all familiar with sketchup.

[Kryptoroxx]

From my experience at work, it is actually pretty easy to create 2d DXFs for a laser or the like if you have a good understanding of how the part bends (if it is a bent part). If it is a flat part with no bends, then that DXF is no big deal.

If you have software that will calculate a flat pattern of a bent part, you need to know a couple of things. What die the job shop is going to use, and whether they are using air bending, coining, bottom bending, etc. This will determine the Inside Radius (IR) of the bend. This is used in calculating the neutral axis, which for this purpose, will be the length of the unbent part. There are a few ways to calculate flat part length, but if your CAD system is doing it for you, the easiest is to use the K factor. 0.45 is what we use at work after much calculation (.446 would be closer, but is inside our tolerances anyway) and seems to be pretty typical.

If you are using something like sketchup, creating a 2d dxf from a flat part shouldn't be too hard, but I am also not at all familiar with sketchup.
As far as creating the pieces go sketchup is great and easy to use for throwing 3d objects around but the free version will not let you export any kind of file that a shop could use for cutting your pieces. Hence the shopping around for another solution.

Most of my ideas use a welded seam rather than a bend but for things like belly pans I might end up using bends in that design since welds don't slide very well. Thanks for the tip though. I will have to do some more reading into this subject before sending something off.

So far I like the program. The way it works is every part is a separate 2d that you extrude into 3d and then place forcing you to design by component. This will really help when I go for say a plate bumper.

What's going to be a pita is getting all of the measurements right with cardboard mockups and then translating it. My computer is upstairs!! Oh well lots of pt for me I suppose.

[Kryptoroxx]

This program is definitely not as user friendly as sketchup....I am still setting it up to the units that I desire. Other than that drawing seems to be similar to what everyone is used to but it has to be drawn 2d in every plane before 3d occurs......might be tough to create a plate bumper unless I use some very simple angles.

[Kryptoroxx]

Yup messed with the program for a long time.....and felt my IQ dropping by the second. Impossible to reliably build 3d solids with an accurate measurement. My brain hurts from trying to figure it out and I know I might not be the smartest guy in the world but I haven't been stumped like that in a long while. I'm springing for the SolidWorks....

[Seanz0rz]

Solidworks usually retails for around 5k. Not worth it unless you are going into production. You can get a student version but it has several major limitations.

As much as I complained when I started, the one we have at work is pretty decent. Its called key creator. Worth a look, but I'm not sure how much a single license is. FWIW, Solidworks is a pain to do some easy things.

[Kryptoroxx]

Solidworks usually retails for around 5k. Not worth it unless you are going into production. You can get a student version but it has several major limitations.

As much as I complained when I started, the one we have at work is pretty decent. Its called key creator. Worth a look, but I'm not sure how much a single license is. FWIW, Solidworks is a pain to do some easy things.

20 bucks for vets or so their site says. I will find out in a couple days since you have to apply for it. I'm not using it professionally and if nothing else it will give me some experience with the program whenever I end up finishing school.

Hopefully my computer won't spontaneously explode if I get to install this thing. I built it in 07 or 08 lol.

[DHC6twinotter]

Are you taking any kind of classes? If so, you can get a student version of AutoDesk Design suite (AutoCAD, Inventor, 3DS Max, etc) for $150 or so on amazon. It's the full package, but you aren't supposed to use it for profit (it has a window that pops up that says it is a student version when you open a file).

AutoCAD can be a bit tricky for some 3D stuff, but I haven't tried Inventor yet.

[Kryptoroxx]

Are you taking any kind of classes? If so, you can get a student version of AutoDesk Design suite (AutoCAD, Inventor, 3DS Max, etc) for $150 or so on amazon. It's the full package, but you aren't supposed to use it for profit (it has a window that pops up that says it is a student version when you open a file).

AutoCAD can be a bit tricky for some 3D stuff, but I haven't tried Inventor yet.
I hadn't thought about that. I probably should start up again though since math I do has consisted of counting for the past 12 years or so lol.

That's not a bad price for autocad either. That's a top notch program.

[DHC6twinotter]

Yeah, I like Autocad. If you are taking classes and have a .edu email, it's easy to verify the license.

I've never used Solidworks, but I've watched people use Solidworks, and it seems that Solidworks is a bit easier for 3D stuff. Then again, the people I watched were really good at it, so maybe they just made it look easier than it was.

[Kryptoroxx]

Yeah, I like Autocad. If you are taking classes and have a .edu email, it's easy to verify the license.

I've never used Solidworks, but I've watched people use Solidworks, and it seems that Solidworks is a bit easier for 3D stuff. Then again, the people I watched were really good at it, so maybe they just made it look easier than it was.

A couple of years ago AutoCad had the same deal as Solidworks going for their design suite but they discontinued it for some reason. Their stipulation on it was that you had to be leaving the military within 12 months. I took advantage of it but then I ended up deciding to extend to see if I could get promoted and so I never installed it.

I will definitely be updating with my review on SolidWorks since they approved me for the veteran program. At the very minimum I am improving my skills with CAD even if I am not thrilled with the program. The only negative (if you could call it that) is they have to ship the program to me. Then again if I charged 5k a pop for a program then I would probably want to not use a download as well.

[Kryptoroxx]

I am still digging trying to find a reasonable cost effective cad design program that would allow use of laser cutting and the like. Not everyone is a veteran and I won't always be in the military either.

I have found 2 possible solutions that seem promising. One is very promising but I have a feeling it would be on the upper end of what I would call feasible for a hobby budget.

1. 3DS Draftsight. It's free for 30 days and then you can pay as little as 100 bucks for a personal copy

link: http://www.3ds.com/products-services/draftsight-cad-software/free-download/

This is the same company that makes SolidWorks. I have read really good things about this program but haven't seen or heard of anyone using it in Toyota circles....or at least the ones I frequent. I have also read that it is very similar to pre 2011 AutoCad LT which sounds like a good thing. I think the last one I used was 2000....sheesh.

2. Alibre/Geomagic Design X. Not sure of the cost but they also offer a 30 day trial with an unknown price attached to the other end. At least DraftSight was straightforward enough to give a price. After searching the price range starts at $200 which may or may not be too much for a hobby (for me it's too much but it all comes down to how much you like and/or use it).

link: http://software.3dsystems.com/geodesign/

I've also read good things about this program and what sounds awesome is an entire engine dedicated to sheet metal design which would help some of us out if we want to design brackets or something bent.

I will be comparing these to what I have the most experience (which isn't much) with and that is Sketchup. If Sketchup wasn't half a grand I would recommend it wholeheartedly and not even bother with comparisons but it is what it is.

Again what I am after is at least a 2d program where you can set up for a laser cutter and optimally a 3d program where I can create pieces and then the program breaks the model down to a layout for laser cutting all while not breaking the bank.

[Seanz0rz]

http://usa.autodesk.com/autodesk-123d/ have you looked into that one?

[Kryptoroxx]

http://usa.autodesk.com/autodesk-123d/ have you looked into that one?

I actually tried it last night. Great little program but it's made for 3d printing. I attempted to make something bigger but that's where the limitations were. It was fairly easy to use and if I needed something 3d printed (like a switch face or perhaps a ham radio surround for a din opening) that would be a fantastic solution.

[Kryptoroxx]

So right now I'm messing around with Draftsight and it does everything for free. The interface takes some getting used to coming from Sketchup where most everything is done with the mouse but it is functional. I have been able to do everything (for the most part) that I am able to do in Sketchup and from the need for operating with .DWG and .DXF files to send off to a cutter this will do quite nicely. In fact I slid smoothly enough into operating in this program that I'm not going to bother with the other which you had to sign up and give your firstborn to receive a 30 day trial.

The best part about Draftsight is that while there are some nifty features locked for premium use the rest of the modeling is free for good. I am going to review a little more and see if I can work up a 3d model from scratch for a front bumper idea I had. It won't be nearly complete or to scale but the primary focus is so I can get all of the angle cuts perfect to make the bumper. For tonight though my brain is kind of tired. I started testing for the Microsoft certs and I had to remember a lot of stuff.

[garrett]

draftsight is probably the top free one out there that can do 2D dxf/dwg files. like you said, it is made by Dassault (who makes solidworks and CATIA) and is their answer to Autodesk's autoCAD. most of the commands are identical to autoCAD. Dassault offers it for free because they make the big bucks in the 3D world and they can. i have used autocad for 3d before and it was miserable. I assume draftsight is just as bad at 3D (if its even possible).

I have used most 3D products out there and they all have their pros and cons, but none of them are cheap nor are they geared toward a home user/hobbyist. that's really why sketchup is so popular among woodworkers and similar hobbyists.

EDIT: just re-read through the whole thread. so you did purchase solidworks with your discount? if so, i would just start learning it. it will do 3d models of sheet metal and allow you to create flat patterns/drawings for export. it has a semi-steep learning curve if you have never done 3d modeling before, but solidworks is pretty popular so there are a lot of tutorials and youtube videos out there. even the included tutorials are decent.

[Kryptoroxx]

I did do the solidworks deal. It's honestly too good to pass up.

3d is possible with DS however the interface is a little clunky imo. Also when I loaded one of my designs from sketchup my computer felt like it was going to explode (2.5ghz Intel quad, Asus p45, 8gb ram, 250gb ssd, ATI 4870 1gb). It's a little old but man oh man was it slow. I know the weak point is the type of video card but anyway DS is great for 2d. 3d is not so hot but it is possible to draw out.

[Kryptoroxx]

Ok just to update I am now completely convinced that sketchup is the easiest.....however it is not the most powerful or professional.

Solidworks is a lot like draft sight only a lot more polished feel and definitely better interface. However if you think solidworks is a walk in the park to learn....think again. I will be honest to say that I haven't gotten a solid amount of time behind me but I am going through the tutorials and that is new for me. I usually just load a program and learn very quickly. Solidworks is a lot to wrap your brain around. Still I am very pleased with both the free offering and solidworks. They teach you how a real CAD program works and the features they should have vs. training wheels and getting babied with google/trimble.

[Seanz0rz]

Solidworks for me was pretty easy, but I did have a couple of classes that used it heavily. They weren't Solidworks classes specifically, but that was the focus, along with basic drafting principles. To me, Solidworks makes a bunch more sense than autocad, which I tried unsuccessfully to learn. You draw a 2d shape, extrude it to a block, or make it a thin profile for tube. It is actually pretty easy with just the basics like creating planes, and the 3d sketch is important too, especially for tube bending.

The one we use at work was much easier than Solidworks to learn. But it has its own serious limitations. It is not parametric, so if you wish to change the size of the feature, it is not like Solidworks where you click on the feature in the tree, edit the size, and it works. You must add or remove material with other tools. The sheet metal tools in KC also suck, which is bad for us since that is 90% of what we do. I think it would be great for casting, molding, machining, etc.

I am actually looking for a good 2d program to do wiring diagrams. Eagle is a bit complicated just for basic diagrams. I do want something with layers so I can put each layout on a layer then combine them all to have a master diagram.

[Kryptoroxx]

Solidworks for me was pretty easy, but I did have a couple of classes that used it heavily. They weren't Solidworks classes specifically, but that was the focus, along with basic drafting principles. To me, Solidworks makes a bunch more sense than autocad, which I tried unsuccessfully to learn. You draw a 2d shape, extrude it to a block, or make it a thin profile for tube. It is actually pretty easy with just the basics like creating planes, and the 3d sketch is important too, especially for tube bending.

The one we use at work was much easier than Solidworks to learn. But it has its own serious limitations. It is not parametric, so if you wish to change the size of the feature, it is not like Solidworks where you click on the feature in the tree, edit the size, and it works. You must add or remove material with other tools. The sheet metal tools in KC also suck, which is bad for us since that is 90% of what we do. I think it would be great for casting, molding, machining, etc.

I am actually looking for a good 2d program to do wiring diagrams. Eagle is a bit complicated just for basic diagrams. I do want something with layers so I can put each layout on a layer then combine them all to have a master diagram.

After attending the University of YouTube I found out what I was doing wrong. I was working with an under-defined 2d sketch (meaning I didn't read any instructions) and trying to extrude to 3d. I was getting errors that didn't make sense to me about my unfinished 2d sketch. It's hard to mess this program up once you get into it. I am still learning though.

As an afterthought I imagine this was my problem with going 3d with DraftSight as well. If all else fails watch YouTube. Old dogs can learn new tricks.

SolidWorks is very superior to Sketchup with regards to power in 3d modeling due to it's demands that you have a specific point in space that you must place everything and it has to relate to something else in the model. In Sketchup getting everything to relate is a learn as you practice skill and sometimes can be very difficult to place something in a specific locale. Since I do not have the mounting locations for the front bumper (and the front bumper is still light years away from getting funded) I am going to attempt to re-draw the idea for my BBQ grill and possibly add some animation to it. I think drawing it again in 3d will be hard enough let alone adding an animated piece but I've got a great program so I might as well learn it.

[Kryptoroxx]

Happy New Years! Yes I was staying up for New Years by finishing the comparison. Don't judge me. It's a helluva lot better than waking up with a 2 day hangover.

Conclusion:

I no longer completely fail at SolidWorks but I am a long long ways from designing armor within it in a 3d manner at least. I will keep plugging away at it but I have learned a LOT about different kinds of programs for CAD and that you can tailor programs for different audiences.

SolidWorks:

Pros:

What a powerhouse! Animations, Rotating assemblies, Shell tools, amazing amount of power for creating 3d parts to interact with each other in an animated environment (meaning simulated reality, not video graphic...although you might be able to use solidworks for that....don't have an answer there).

Cons:

I find it complex to do tasks that I find simple in my mind however when creating complex assemblies SolidWorks is on your side. It's a double-edged sword. I find it slower to build an idea with personally. We mustn't forget the learning curve associated with this program too.

Sketchup:

Pros:

Really easy to learn and if you need assistance putting ideas to paper and communicating them over the web with something that looks better than Microsoft Paint. Simple 2d and 3d process since they do not separate the two. Plus the 3d model warehouse has come in handy more times than not.

Cons:

Infuriating 3d process at times that will only come with discovering it for yourself. For the most part though it behaves. For what CAD is supposed to be Sketchup is notoriously weak as far as tools go. It's a hopped up version of Microsoft Paint for Office types that don't design crap with tolerances. I didn't realize the last point until I started messing with SolidWorks.

It might be easier to show you.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/540/LpX9Y1.png (https://imageshack.com/i/f0LpX9Y1p)

It took me approximately 4 hours of solid work to make this in Sketchup which I am fairly certain someone couldn't do with SolidWorks. So that's nice. For what it's worth (not trying to pump myself up) it's a fairly decent looking 3d model of a trailer frame and suspension setup. This is the limit of what Sketchup can do right here.

SolidWorks (with someone that knows what they are doing....cough....Sean) could take this model and test the frame for weak points, add weldments, animate the suspension to check for binding, see how much the frame weighs given a definition of material, and all while doing your dishes.

That's the difference. Sketchup is for ideas becoming a model and SolidWorks is for a model to become reality.

[Seanz0rz]

I know solidworks just enough to get myself in trouble! And since I've been using the program at work, I know even less.

For Solidworks, I prefer to design as I would make it. For example, on the trailer frame, I would design each piece of tube as an individual part and then make an assembly out of it. I also raid McMaster.com for models of purchased parts and avoid the built in parts catalog. This way I am getting exactly what I would order, instead of what someone else thought it should look like.

I use the mass feature in Solidworks a lot to figure out weight. Right now I am working on a new cargo/sleeping platform, and want it to weight close to my plywood version. I can also get deflections for a given load and it will highlight the stress concentrations at critical points. Now, I am not able to manufacture to tight tolerances, so there is also a hefty safety factor in everything I do. I'll take 10-20% more weight to avoid a failure because I designed right to the limit.

[Kryptoroxx]

I know solidworks just enough to get myself in trouble! And since I've been using the program at work, I know even less.

For Solidworks, I prefer to design as I would make it. For example, on the trailer frame, I would design each piece of tube as an individual part and then make an assembly out of it. I also raid McMaster.com for models of purchased parts and avoid the built in parts catalog. This way I am getting exactly what I would order, instead of what someone else thought it should look like.

I use the mass feature in Solidworks a lot to figure out weight. Right now I am working on a new cargo/sleeping platform, and want it to weight close to my plywood version. I can also get deflections for a given load and it will highlight the stress concentrations at critical points. Now, I am not able to manufacture to tight tolerances, so there is also a hefty safety factor in everything I do. I'll take 10-20% more weight to avoid a failure because I designed right to the limit.
That's my biggest point though rolled up in it. Solidworks I think is slower to build a model in.....because it wants and can handle all the details.

You use mcmaster like I use khmetals.com actually. I took a quick peek at the link. I might be using that for reference in the future though. Thank you! With solidworks I need all the help I can get.

[Seanz0rz]

many of their parts have cad file you can download in a number of different formats, solidworks 2007 being one of them. So if you need to design around say a weld nut or a certain bolt, you can download it. At work we do this so it becomes easier to build a bill of materials from our 3d model and to check clearances, etc.

[Kryptoroxx]

many of their parts have cad file you can download in a number of different formats, solidworks 2007 being one of them. So if you need to design around say a weld nut or a certain bolt, you can download it. At work we do this so it becomes easier to build a bill of materials from our 3d model and to check clearances, etc.
Now that makes a heap of sense lol!

That would really help something like that trailer design. Doesn't do much for making stuff like plate/tube bumpers though.

[Kryptoroxx]

many of their parts have cad file you can download in a number of different formats, solidworks 2007 being one of them. So if you need to design around say a weld nut or a certain bolt, you can download it. At work we do this so it becomes easier to build a bill of materials from our 3d model and to check clearances, etc.
Yeah I just started discovering this. I am very used to just making all of my parts. Thinking about searching for an online class or something as solidworks is awesome....but my methodology is obviously not the solidworks way.

[Seanz0rz]

I use Youtube to figure out something I don't know. Once you have the basics down it's just up to you to figure out how to draw it.

For example, that trailer frame, I would do a 3d sketch and then extrude a thin profile along that sketch. I think this video shows how to do that: http://youtu.be/DpHTPDjRyoU

I have a book ( I think its for 2011) if you want to borrow it. Actually, I think I have two! Let me know if you want it. Some of the buttons and steps might be slightly different, but it will help.

[Kryptoroxx]

I'm attempting to make the frame using weldments and then welding it together so I can analyze the stress. I think I just tried to make too much of the frame under the same sketch so I'm breaking it down to the tongue assembly, lower frame, etc

If I am still stumped I think I might wander out of the desert here next month and get that book from ya. It's slowly coming along although I wish it would just click.

[Kryptoroxx]

Also doing a bunch of custom weldment profiles to make some of my projects easier to input......fml

[Kryptoroxx]

A miracle has happened!

I have successfully created an actual bloody part with SolidWorks that is kind of accurate. I do however have to use bigger "parts" like designing the whole frame which might only take weeks but whatever.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/661/nxljjG.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/idnxljjGj)

It weighs approx 60lbs. I haven't gotten into stress testing but I figure that will probably be more important when I have the whole frame built.

[Seanz0rz]

Wooooo!

[Kryptoroxx]

I will show some more progress tomorrow but my top rack model is almost done as well. It was soon much easier to model than the tongue. I will be very interested in the results of the stress testing. With the trailer frame I discovered setting about I intelligent design?? Anyway they use a trailer frame as the example so it certainly can't hurt.

[Seanz0rz]

My friend recommended this:http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/mechanical

He really likes it and it looks super easy. I'm going to start use it and ditch solid works for most of my design.

[Kryptoroxx]

My friend recommended this:http://www.rs-online.com/designspark/electronics/eng/page/mechanical

He really likes it and it looks super easy. I'm going to start use it and ditch solid works for most of my design.
I can see being able to design small items but I think where these free design programs get you is not being able to design things like a roof rack or bumper that cannot be made with a 3d printer.