is it time for a new motor/trans?

[troyboy162]

heres where I'm at:

-I will be keeping the truck for the next ten years. I'm too far in to jump ship now and it just plain works
-The engine/trans/transfer case are at 230k
-The engine has a problem in the head where one of the cam journals is destroyed. Its a outer one and not that important but this will not be the engine that goes 400k miles without issue.
-I'm pretty sure engine power is down from 6 years ago. Could be as easy as a o2 or it could be as crazy as valve clearances.
-I priced a complete install of engine and trans at 3k awhile ago part and labor. Thats not bad depending on how refreshed the engine is.
-also no interest in swap to manual at this time so that works in my favor

I have a chance at work where dropping the truck off for a few weeks wont be to hard so I've been contemplating getting this taken care of. I have been driving the truck for two years knowing the head is not perfect. I assume the engine will give notice before its going to have a real problem, but the cam issue is kinda a wild card since I have never heard of that before.

I have a couple questions for the group:
-Whos got the best rep for engine changes in socal? California mini-truck quoted 3k, but if yotamasters does a better job for 3.5k...then I'd be very interested in that. A big job like this is likely to have issues and I would not be interested in tracking down small gremlins for months to follow.
- should I be sourcing my engine on my own? I assume a installer would go the same avenues as me, but if they simply dont have the same time as me to find the "perfect" motor...then Ive got plenty of time to source my own. Granted I have zero knowledge on what to look for other then low mileage. With the 3.4l I would figure raw low mileage is not the first factor to look at.
-And out of left field...Anyone heard of shops putting in alternative engines? I've found places that will sway diesel engines but 15k later you have a under powered engine with uncommon parts. I'd love a nice bulletproof v8 like JD, but I cant do the time myself for a install. Also with the 3.4l being so plentiful and cheap, even with the addition of a supercharger I'd still likely be cheaper then a custom v8 install...so theres not much room for a shop to make money on the swap.

[Kryptoroxx]

I am sure Yotamasters would do an engine swap for you and I would pay the extra 500 for them. I have seen their name positively mentioned on t4r.org, yotatech, and marlin I believe.

There was a recent 1uz swap done over on t4r.org and that would allow use of your current tranny. I saw a 1uz for sale on Craigslist here in socal for something like 700 bucks complete. That would be an amazing deal. I know the 1uz is not as popular but it's a good engine. I'm sure Yotamasters could do that....but it wouldn't be cheap.

With the diesel engine diesel toys does toyota diesels for something like 20k but you get the surf engine 1kz-te or you can spend a little more and get the bigger (and more efficient) d4d for a cool 25k.

Personally I am sourcing my own toyota diesel (provided I can stay Marine) while I am overseas. I might end up using diesel toys though if I can't source it. Toyota turbo diesels are kinda sloth like but very torqy. I like them.

[Seanz0rz]

Go with a good 60k mile import motor. Only thing I'd look at is the vavle train for sludge.

Other than that, I think getting a quote from yotamasters and socalmini, as well as some others would go a long way in deciding for you. Never the cheapest, or most expensive, but probably the most complete quote.

You are lucky with being a 96, since in California the new engine will need to be your model year or newer.

[Kryptoroxx]

Here's that 1uz ad
http://inlandempire.craigslist.org/pts/4771276772.html

[troyboy162]

1uz would be fine but I dont think its an option in California since it wasnt ever offered in a 4runner. That one brings up a good example too. For 6k I can have a 3.4 and a supercharger. I think any custom swap would be far more for the same output. The diesels just dont make any financial sense unless you can do it yourself although Id prefer it.

I researched some and at least at once time yotamasters was doing motors for 750 labor and thats the same as cali mini-truck. minitruck was getting motors from there own yard I believe so yotamasters might mean less hassle to source a lower mileage engine. I'll look into it this week and see whats what. just a gut feeling, but Id expect yotamasters would be less creeped out by me asking about beefed up engine/tranny mounts too.

[Kryptoroxx]

1uz would be fine but I dont think its an option in California since it wasnt ever offered in a 4runner. That one brings up a good example too. For 6k I can have a 3.4 and a supercharger. I think any custom swap would be far more for the same output. The diesels just dont make any financial sense unless you can do it yourself although Id prefer it.

I researched some and at least at once time yotamasters was doing motors for 750 labor and thats the same as cali mini-truck. minitruck was getting motors from there own yard I believe so yotamasters might mean less hassle to source a lower mileage engine. I'll look into it this week and see whats what. just a gut feeling, but Id expect yotamasters would be less creeped out by me asking about beefed up engine/tranny mounts too.

Dude they're gonna be stoked seeing you come in lol.

I wish I could say what's allowed in cali but yeah about that....I do think you could manage it if the engine is newer than the runner (which it should be). If they allow 350 swaps for old yota trucks and 3.4 swaps for the old pickups I bet you could manage but I don't know enough to help.

As far as diesel goes I agree with you. I am looking to do my own d4d swap and the only way it will really work is if I grab a yota overseas wrecked with one in it....and ship it back as part of my home and goods shipment. Otherwise I can't see myself ever being able to pull it off.

[YotaFun]

Can I add a few cents to this?
I'm not in SoCal so I can't give any input as to the shops doing the work.

I like the idea of a lower mileage engine but honestly if you don't know the full history of the engine, any engine you get can be a roll of the dice, i mean there are plenty of engine out there that have been serviced regularly and thrown rods at 100k.

IF you could swing it, a thought in my mind is to get and engine and have it overhauled.
This way you know the condition of the internals and have an idea of whats going on instead of rolling the dice and possibly being screwed out of $3k in 6mo to 1yr...

Source out a motor of your desired mileage, lower would be better but with a rebuild you options are wider (I will be overhauling a motor with 260K to put in my runner with a super charger eventually maybe even have the engine itself at least rebuilt by this time next year), have it looked over and rebuilt and then have a little better piece of mind.

Same goes with the transmission, which normally is neglected by many owners because lets face it, the 4Runner was more of a soccer mom vehicle then any, "oh I'll just get my oil changed when I can" mentality which overlooks the other maintenance of the vehicle, and what happens if you source a trans that had previously exposed to the pink milkshake, who knows the mileage left on that one. When the planetary overdrive gear in my stepdads 02' (a year to avoid getting a trans from by the way) he had Cottman Trans rebuild it with a year warranty, this was back in 05' and almost 200k ago (roughly 175k) and his trans still feels like it just came off the line (minus the major tune up I need to do to his truck right now). Again piece of mind knowing whats going into your transmission and what you are getting out of it. Also if you plan on supercharging, you can source out an updated valve body and torque converter from ipt transmission to go in and give you a firmer shift and a stronger trans to handle the extra power.

If you do source out an engine without rebuild, with yours being a 96, do your best to try to source another 96-98 engine, this being the wiring harness changed in 99+ and a different ecu style and also went from o2 to a/f sensor. With the attached wiring harness (usually included with the engine) it would be plug and play and save some labor time from having to transfer wiring harness.

Supercharger would be badass, and def a cost effective option imho over the v8 or diesel option, with being in Cali, just sounds like a huge pain.

just a different thought process I thought I would add to the mix.

[troyboy162]

What are your thoughts on rebuilt motors from a average shop? I wouldnt be able to rebuild one on my own due to lack of time and skill. There are plenty rebuilt ones around for a little more money. For the 3.4 these didnt interest me because I figured factory they were good for 300k and a rebuild was more of a roll of the dice.

[Kryptoroxx]

What are your thoughts on rebuilt motors from a average shop? I wouldnt be able to rebuild one on my own due to lack of time and skill. There are plenty rebuilt ones around for a little more money. For the 3.4 these didnt interest me because I figured factory they were good for 300k and a rebuild was more of a roll of the dice.
You will be better off with a jdm than a rebuilt imo.

[YotaFun]

You will be better off with a jdm than a rebuilt imo.

What would make the JDM better then a rebuilt motor?

I would trust more a shop that specializes in engines alone.
I just feel with a junkyard motor I would at least want to tear it down partially and see what I am dealing with and at least get new seals all the way around (as well as timing belt, water pump, idlers, ect.)

[Kryptoroxx]

What would make the JDM better then a rebuilt motor?

I would trust more a shop that specializes in engines alone.
I just feel with a junkyard motor I would at least want to tear it down partially and see what I am dealing with and at least get new seals all the way around (as well as timing belt, water pump, idlers, ect.)
Jdm is factory built engines with lower miles. If the shop you're dealing with does just import motors or has a lot of experience with the 5vz then I would go ahead with the rebuild but a lot of times jdm motors have less than 100k (we know that's practically brand new for the 5vz) and that's awesome.

The other thing about jdm is that they are imported engines from japan. It's not that they are super or anything but it's a law over there to maintain your vehicle. Every 2 years you have to pass what's called a JCI and it's basically giving a mechanic carte blanche with repairs if your car doesn't pass.

[4x4mike]

As I read it you're not looking for a replacement right away. Right?

If that is the case I'd do your homework on shops, prices, etc. Who knows. Somewhere during that homework you might stumble upon a great donor.

I know you said you don't have a lot of time or experience with swapping but what about 3.4 for 3.4? I know it wouldn't be super easy but how hard could it be? Especially year for year?


For the 3.4 these didnt interest me because I figured factory they were good for 300k and a rebuild was more of a roll of the dice.

Part of me would want to trust a stock, low mile motor rather than a rebuild. Even with warranties on a rebuild, you'd be dealing with the shop or a guy and you'd be out your vehicle while it was fixed. If the motor had less than 300k and was rebuilt what was wrong with it? Would you want it?

I've seen posts in the past with parts kits for things like timing belts that have new "Toyota" or "Aisin" parts. Some are legit and others are knock offs. I forget where it was but there were side by side pictures showing differences and the problems guys were having. If it were me and I had time before it had to be done I'd be looking for a low mile babied motor (aren't all used motors like that?). Even if it was a rolling chassis if the price was right.

[troyboy162]

Revisiting this old plan again. My input bearing to the transmission is beginning to make noise. I called up California mini truck and hit a snag. There system shows only 96-99 4runner/taoma motors being compatible with my 96. I think thats due to a difference in throttle body connector plugs. My MAF will get reused so thats the only difference I can think of. The guy on the phone thought it was the location of the dip sticks, but I've learned 4runners, Tacomas, and tundras all had them in the front. T-100 had them on the side it sounds like.

I really didnt want to do my own motor swap, but it might be the only way to get a 99-04 low mileage motor. Transmission seems fairly easy.

Local rebuilds still sound sketchy. Kar King in Ontario has reviews that sound like they may just be selling steam cleaned used motors.

[Seanz0rz]

Why not buy a whole engine with wiring harness? It just needs to be newer than your truck, which is easy.

[YotaFun]

Here is my .02 on the subject, any 3.4l from 96-04 will work (96-02 for the 4runners I believe 97 to 04 for the Tacoma due to egr on the 96). Your best bet if you get a newer engine is swapping the harness over, reason I say this is 96 & 97 have a different ECU connector style then the 98, then 98 is different on its own iirc but I could be wrong, and then 99-02 the connectors are the same at least through the 4runners, I'm not sure on the tacomas, I cn try to look it up later today if not tomorrow. Just a little more info to try to help you out.

[troyboy162]

Why not buy a whole engine with wiring harness? It just needs to be newer than your truck, which is easy.
I think it would be easier to just transfer my throttle body and intake to the donor motor. I dont know of any benefit to move to a newer MAF or TPS. Injectors should be the same plug and I wouldn't think the knock sensor would change, but I don't know.


Here is my .02 on the subject, any 3.4l from 96-04 will work (96-02 for the 4runners I believe 97 to 04 for the Tacoma due to egr on the 96). Your best bet if you get a newer engine is swapping the harness over, reason I say this is 96 & 97 have a different ECU connector style then the 98, then 98 is different on its own iirc but I could be wrong, and then 99-02 the connectors are the same at least through the 4runners, I'm not sure on the tacomas, I cn try to look it up later today if not tomorrow. Just a little more info to try to help you out.

maybe I just dont understand the engine harness...After I remove my intake/throttle body I expect just to disconnect the injectors, knock sensor and the motor will be free to come out. Are you saying the normal route is a engine with a harness attached is put in, and just one connector is ran to the ECU to complete the install?

I've always assumed the harness runs all over the front bay to random little things

[troyboy162]

bah update...Called the guy back. His mech thought my 96 dipstick was driver side midengine. I'm about 99% positive its on the front of the engine driver side. If that is the case then he said there that his newer motors will work and everything else is fine. I hope they are taking in consideration these differences in plugs we are talking about.

[YotaFun]

maybe I just dont understand the engine harness...After I remove my intake/throttle body I expect just to disconnect the injectors, knock sensor and the motor will be free to come out. Are you saying the normal route is a engine with a harness attached is put in, and just one connector is ran to the ECU to complete the install?

I've always assumed the harness runs all over the front bay to random little things

Let me clarify my statement because typing it from my cell phone is not the best idea.

Yes you can disconnect all connectors off the engine, place them out of the way, pull the engine, install the new one, and reconnect your engine connectors. Its just a little more time consuming and your run the risk of some of your connectors breaking due to the mileage and heat.

It is EASIER to swap a motor with the same wiring harness for your truck but finding what you need is a little harder, and since yours is a 96 those motors (96 & 97) would have higher mileage. The benefit of doing engine with harness is all you do is unplug the harness from the ECU feed it through the fire wall and it goes with the engine as it comes out. I guess its the flat rate state of mind in me that feels this way is better.

The dip stick on your truck is in the front driver side right by the oil cap area. my 97 is like that, and my 99 is like that as well.

Tell me if this makes a little more sense from what I had said eariler.

[troyboy162]

oh ok that makes sense. I've never really looked at one. I wonder how the guys plan on doing it down there. For internet search purposes the labor will be ~$1000 for the motor and transmission install. I think they quoted 750 a couple years ago for just a engine install. I'm going to have them do a radiator and timing belt at the same time.
I hope it all works out lol. If it does I'm golden for another 100k. If not, I'm hopefully better off then I am now.

[troyboy162]

Hit a snag again lol
The guy from cali mini trucks called me and said he had looked at his motors and tested the best candidate, but it wasnt running quite right. He told me he would be looking for a motor at auctions and call me if he found anything.
Part of me is really bummed, but I'd rather get this call then start hearing valve tick on the way home from my expensive investment.

[Seanz0rz]

Buy mine. It's for sale (soon).

[troyboy162]

getting something with more fuel economy?

[Seanz0rz]

HA! Looking for something bigger. 100 series.

[troyboy162]

How much bigger is that then a 3rd gen towing a trailer :P You just barley got that thing all sorted... lets beat on it for a few more years : )

[Kryptoroxx]

Buy mine. It's for sale (soon).
What?? Booooooo

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[Seanz0rz]

I want more seats, cylinders, and something a little newer and less miles.

[troyboy162]

I hear ya. I just can't start all over again, or sell my junker for pennies on the dollar. I hope I can keep it reliable and fun for another 20 years

[Seanz0rz]

Starting over is part of the fun I think. I'm ready for a new adventure.

Back to your topic, I see the complete engines on eBay all the time, would that be an option?

[troyboy162]

It might end up being an option, but I havnt persued sourcing my own engine since I wouldn't know what to look for or be able to test one. Most places will reimburse you by giving you another motor if the one you bought is bad. Well that's great, but now I'm pulling/installing two motors.

Having it installed doesn't sheild me either since again they just give me a new motor and don't cover labor. At least they have a reputation to worry about and that all the comfort I get :/

[paddlenbike]

I helped a friend pick out a Nissan RB25 (turbocharged Inline 6 used in the Nissan Skyline) from a room filled to the brim with engines. We brought along a compression tester and battery and put power to the starter motor to allow it to turn over and build compression for a compression test. Not only do you get compression numbers out of it but if something is really wrong inside the engine you'll likely be able to hear it as it turns over at starter speeds. I would also at least remove the oil cap (if they won't let you remove the valve covers) to check for other warning signs like oil sludge.

If you're not into picking out an engine this way, I suppose the other options are to buy a wrecked vehicle (for its engine) so at least the mileage is known or find a local part-out, or if your heads are good check into a brand new shortblock from Toyota. The Supra guys were buying new from Toyota as they cost around $2k at the time and you just swap over your existing heads and engine accessories.

After rebuilding an engine myself, I think the only rebuilt engine I would trust would be one that I reworked myself or from a very reputable company like LCE. Rebuilding an engine and getting the proper bearing clearances require a huge amount of high precision work...in other words, there are very few people I would trust to do it right.

What you really have going for you is that you're shopping for a truck motor and not something that gets raped like a WRX engine, and the 3.4 is one of the most stout motors I have ever heard of. Even the Toyota 4.7 V8s aren't putting up with much abuse as the number of them breaking connecting rods is starting to skyrocket now that they're getting older. (It's also why Toyota stopped making the supercharger for those engines.) Point being, the motor you are seeking should be one of the least likely to have major internal problems.

To your original question, source the engine yourself.