Dye testing- power steering lines need replacing and rear main seal (engine oil)

[Bob98SR5]

Alrighty, so that dye testing was eye opening to say the least.

So in case you're curious, here's what I used:

Dye
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000JFHNTM/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Flashlight
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B008133KB4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1

So I probably went a bit overboard on the dye, but it really made where the leaks were very, very obvious. It looks like the blood from the Predator lol. So I noticed that the right side of my rear skid plate as well as the left side front skid plate had leakage. This is even after having the power steering pump swapped out for a new NAPA made p/s pump (let's see how long it lasts), which at the very least fixed the leak around the pump that was spraying p/s fluid everywhere and making a mess.

So taking a look at the smaller of the two leak areas, I could clearly see that on the return side that the hose ends were cracking and I'm guessing that the spring hose clamps are not as tight as they used to be. But there appears to be a hose next to it that's weeping from the hose.

I traced the p/s hard line across the vehicle back into the body and where the hose ends terminate to the metal crimped end is where the most wetness and leakage is located. The hoses are literally weeping p/s fluid from both the hose and near the hose end. I tried to take a picture but it's next to impossible trying to hold the UV flashlight and the camera at the same time in that cramped little space. The end result is that weeping leakage flows down to the rack and across the cross member. Most of it was as expected pooling near the driver's side steering rack boot.

Rear main seal
As one mechanic a few years ago pointed out, the rear main seal is weeping oil. It hasn't been that bad until recently. It was difficult to see and trace w/o the UV light and dye. So basically it's weeping oil from the bottom of the bell housing and dripping right onto the cross member. That oil leakage is dripping straight down to the big ol' center steering rack nut.

Wow this is going to be one time consuming b@#ch. Not to mention the stock parts for just the p/s lines alone (all the little parts too) is around $550. I'm sure cheaper parts can be found on rockauto, but my barometer is OEM. I didn't even price out the rear main seal.

Ok I'm thoroughly depressed. Time to go to bed and deal with this later.

[4x4mike]

Sad to see Bob. Do you plan to use the product Sean recommended to see if that will stop the small leaks?

I remember CYi5 had to do his rear main years ago. I saved a few pictures, just because I guess. I bet the seal is cheap compared to the labor involved in replacing it.

[Bob98SR5]

Mike,

Yeah I’m planning on trying the seal stuff that Sean recommended. It should arrive early as today.

[Seanz0rz]

Bob, you can also use that ATP stuff in Oil. Never tried it, but thought about it to solve my leaking valve cover gaskets. The active ingredient is a plasticizer that helps keep the rubber stuff rubbery. Might be worth a try, certainly cheaper than some alternatives.

[Bob98SR5]

Bob, you can also use that ATP stuff in Oil. Never tried it, but thought about it to solve my leaking valve cover gaskets. The active ingredient is a plasticizer that helps keep the rubber stuff rubbery. Might be worth a try, certainly cheaper than some alternatives.


Man, I'm lucky to have made it home today. The p/s leak definitely getting worse. Good thing I brought some ATF with me.

I had training class about 30 mins away from home for work and once done, I returned to the 4Runner and there was a nice sized puddle from the P/S pressure lines as I described last night. I topped it off a bit and then even still I heard a bit of groaning pulling out of the lot. Seems like the P/S pump is not getting all that it needs due to the lost pressure from the leak. When I was backing up into the driveway, there was this nice little leak trail into the driveway.

Time to buy the parts.

Looking at Olathe Toyota's site (I've had great service, but probably not the cheapest), the parts total with shipping comes out to a whopping ~$635.

Questions since I haven't bought OEM parts online in awhile other than small parts from Amazon:

- Do any of you guys have online parts stores you like? Price will be important for me.
- I'm considering buying ACDelco parts from Rockauto esp. after doing a quick scan of their parts cost vs OEM. Any horror stories about their parts? Any good non-OEM parts brands to consider?

On the rear main seal leak, one guy in my class said to check the back of the valve cover. Didn't think about that, so I'll check that tonight w/ the UV light. But pretty sure it's the RM seal.

Thanks fellas. Now onto researching the difficulty of the P/S pressure line job.

[Seanz0rz]

I use https://parts.camelbacktoyota.com/partlocator/index.cfm?siteid=214329

I would keep with OEM or trusted OEM brand, like Aisin or Denso.

[Bob98SR5]

So one other area I neglected to check was behind the valve cover. Sure enough there appears to be some leakage but in my opinion it is probably not the source of the major oil leak. Take a look at the oil seepage. It looks too crusty and semi dry vs an oily drippy leak. What do you guys think?

I’m going to clean this oily area as best as I can given this very tight space and run the engine a bit to check for seepage or dripping.

I’m still convinced though that this is a rear main seal problem.

[Bob98SR5]

Pics of leak from camshaft plugs

[4x4mike]

Although expensive I'm with Sean on the OEM or like replacements. I don't have any experience with Rock Auto but I know they are very popular and many use them. I chalk them up to an AutoZone or Kragen. Results may vary and there is a good chance they will work but for how long?

I've purchased most of my OE parts from Camelback. If it's in stock it ships fast and I think it's free shipping if you're spending as much as you are. At one time there were coupon codes but I haven't seen any in a long time. I believe Rock Auto has many coupons especially to pull new customers in.

I changed the valve cover gaskets, oil tube seals, cam seals, etc on the 3rd gen a year or so ago. The covers weren't leaking but I could smell a warm oil scent on warm days. I was worried about a leak but never found anything dripping or new. The rear of the covers and top of the block looked similar to your pictures so I went along with the repair. If the cam seals are leaking they would drip down to where you're seeing you leak, at the bottom.

Did the RM get worse after your drive to Mammoth? Had you driven it that far in awhile? Perhaps the extended drive, loaded and at elevation pushed things around. I'd give things a wipe down and inspect after driving some more. Pismo had a way of disrupting my 3rd gen. Gear oil would burp out of the front diff breather and everything would act a little different out there, even for a bit after coming home.

[Bob98SR5]

Although expensive I'm with Sean on the OEM or like replacements. I don't have any experience with Rock Auto but I know they are very popular and many use them. I chalk them up to an AutoZone or Kragen. Results may vary and there is a good chance they will work but for how long?

I've purchased most of my OE parts from Camelback. If it's in stock it ships fast and I think it's free shipping if you're spending as much as you are. At one time there were coupon codes but I haven't seen any in a long time. I believe Rock Auto has many coupons especially to pull new customers in.

I changed the valve cover gaskets, oil tube seals, cam seals, etc on the 3rd gen a year or so ago. The covers weren't leaking but I could smell a warm oil scent on warm days. I was worried about a leak but never found anything dripping or new. The rear of the covers and top of the block looked similar to your pictures so I went along with the repair. If the cam seals are leaking they would drip down to where you're seeing you leak, at the bottom.

Did the RM get worse after your drive to Mammoth? Had you driven it that far in awhile? Perhaps the extended drive, loaded and at elevation pushed things around. I'd give things a wipe down and inspect after driving some more. Pismo had a way of disrupting my 3rd gen. Gear oil would burp out of the front diff breather and everything would act a little different out there, even for a bit after coming home.

Mike (and Sean),

If I can find Aisin or Denso replacement parts like Sean suggested, I'll go with them. I have them for my plug wires and they seem to be holding up just fine. I'll check your posts for your work you did. I vaguely recall that I might have changed out my valve cover gasket and the rear plugs (obviously not well if I did in fact do them!) when changed out two injectors and all the plugs. I'll have to check my folder of parts receipts. In any case even if I did, I'll do them again. I recall it wasn't a difficult job to pull off the plenum and other stuff. Just tedious.

I'm pretty sure the RM got worse after the Mammoth drive and no, I haven't taken the 4Runner on a long, extended drive like that esp w/ 4 people and gear. I also added 10-30W synthetic as it was on sale. I may go with a thicker weight oil like 10-40W and the type of oil for older vehicles that have the chemicals that swells gaskets and such. They seemed to work for the ol' Biodiesel Benz so I'm willing to give it a try. FYI I'm going to hold off on adding the AT-205.

Thanks gents.

Bob

[4x4mike]

I've gotten Aisin and Denso stuff at Napa. My local O'Riely/Kragen has a really good guy behind the counter that has been helpful in the past but I only buy things like oil and paint from them (no parts except wiper blades). I feel my Napa has a good blend of help and parts. Might be worth checking out.

You're right about the tedious-ness of valve covers and injector installs, I did both but at different times. Not hard work but required a lot of steps and small parts.

[Bob98SR5]

Ok cool, I'll check with NAPA.

[4x4mike]

I remembered after I posted last that Carquest also carried Aisin and Denso as they had the lowest price, and a machine shop, for my rear axle seals and bearings.

[Bob98SR5]

No bueno on Aisin and Denso making power steering lines. I even checked their mfg website's catalog and search engines. On a somewhat happier note, Conicelli Toyota (aka Partznet) sent me a coupon for 10% off, so for all the lines, control valve, etc (everything you need to buy to replace 100% of the power steering equipment between the p/s pump and rack) is $482 w/ shipping. Camelback was $534 and Olathe was in the stratosphere.

[Seanz0rz]

Curious to see who made the OEM lines. Post up pictures of the new lines, possible they can be sourced cheaper. Although that's not a bad price. I'm sure you could have saved a tiny bit if you had them custom made at a hydraulic shop, but that is alot of effort.

[Bob98SR5]

Sean,

Good question. So far based on my research many people have tried to find a cheaper way of doing this but the problem appears to be getting the combined lines off without destroying them at the connection point into the steering rack. Most say that to get to turn the nut you have to unbolt rack enough to swing it away a bit for some room. And all unanimously say it’s a bitch to get off and requires a brake line wrench (flare but wrench?).

On non OEM hoses I read a few people say that Gates is a preferred non OEM replacement brand for the Subaru community. And they come separate so easier to route (so they say). And yes a very significant cost difference. If I go the Gates route, I’d still buy the fittings from Toyota. The cost difference is about 50 pct by buying Gates lines and Toyota fittings.

Still researching...

[Bob98SR5]

Alrighty looks like I replaced the valve cover gasket and misc plugs back in July 2106. Obviously I didn’t do the rear cam plu very well. Also the kit didn’t include those half moons but I recall reusing them. Anyways is it worth buying it again or just doing over using the existing kit?

[Seanz0rz]

When I did the valve covers on the Lexus 4.7, I didn't even bother touching the cam half moons. Mine was leaking because the seal had gone hard and the bolts were all extremely loose. I made sure to tighten them more than spec. Not sure if it was a good idea, but I did it.

For the rack, the lines are a pain to get to. I would use a flare nut wrench if you can. Pick up a set of flare nut crows feet if you can, that might make it easier to get in there, plus you can use it with a torque wrench.

[4x4mike]

2016?

That wasn't too long ago.

I wouldn't bother replacing the half moons as they are metal and can be reused. Just make sure you clean them and their mating surfaces really well. The plugs I'd buy new if they are old (your post above says 2106 so it's unclear on their age) and again make sure everything is clean and use Toyota FIPG for the best results.

[Bob98SR5]

Ok guys, I finally had some dedicated me time to make sure I'm ordering the right parts. I took a different tack and bought some OEM parts and not others (pics attached). So all of the power steering line fittings including control valve the I bought OEM from Conicelli Toyota while the valve cover gasket and the pressure and return lines I bought off-brand from Rock Auto. I decided to buy a new gasket kit (non-OEM) but those cam plugs I bought OEM.

Who knows if this strategy will be a good one, so I'll be the test case for this mixed parts strategy. The cost savings is significant. In total I spent (rounding) $220 + $90 = $310. In comparison for just the Toyota OEM pressure and return lines, that cost alone is $434.29.

Time to take the plenum and valve covers off. Good chance to clean the engine bay at the same time.

On another note, my Airlift airbag on the side I really need it (drivers) does not hold pressure. In the process I figured out a neat little trick to get the bag out---use a hand vacuum pump! So all I did was jacked up the passenger side as far as my jack could go so as to decompress the spring. Then I applied vacuum and it literally folded into itself in three places. From there it was just a matter of folding the bottom and wiggling and pulling it out. I'm going to send that bag in for a replacement. Not sure why it won't hold air, but I applied air to the hoses separately, to the airbag separately, and even dunked the whole thing under water. Oddly enough there aren't any air bubbles coming out of it, but it'll lose pressure nonetheless.

[Bob98SR5]

All parts are in as of tonight 8pm, but arrived way too late to start working on the truck tonight. The Gates hoses *do not* look cheaply made, so breathing a sigh of relief. But first, going to work on resealing the valve covers and those pesky circular cam plugs tomorrow morning. Let's see if I can find where I goofed up---or not.