Stevo3's Fuel Upgrade Thread

[Stevo3]

Well, Just got off the phone with Brian again from URD Racing. Just ordered the fuel kit upgrade and the extra components to install on my truck! Yes, I did give in and get the 2.2 pulley. Just because it was on sale for this month, like $40 off. Date of arival is supposed to be May 8th. So, now I need to get ahold of David at Magnuson and get my s/c rebuilt. So for sure I'll be starting this project next week sometime I hope. May even take next Thursday and Friday off to make sure I can get everything done over the weekend so all I have to do is slap the s/c back on and start tinkering with the adjustments. :clap: :clap: :clap:

There will be pics, if you guys are lucky :flipoff: J/K

Ofcoarse there will be pics, otherwise this would prolly get tossed into Oly's hole for sure hahaha

Will keep you guys updated.

[4x4Fink]

:clap: :thumbup: :king: :bowdown:

Can't wait to see it man!

Fink

[oly884]

As usual, a report will need to be submitted ASAP

[Stevo3]

Well, got everything in the mail today. Too bad the mail man was late today... Go figure... Just need to go have the bung put on for the Wide Band O2 sensor tomarrow after work, Then off comes the supercharger to be sent out for an overhaul!

Ill get pics of my new accesories hopefully by tonight.

[Stevo3]

Just as I said, Heres the pic.

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m271/Stevo-3/URDKit.jpg

This look familiar to what you guys got?

*note* I didnt take pics of all the cables and such, just the main things.

[mastacox]

I think you'll be interested to read my Fuel Upgrade kit writeup. It's incomplete, as I don't have the FTC section done yet, but could be helpful. I have to think about transferring this writeup to a Wiki here later...

http://home.comcast.net/~mastacox/urdinstall.html

[Stevo3]

Very nice write-ups. I will most likely put them to good use. I've worked on cars more than once though, I had a Chevy, that should explain a lot. So this all seems pretty basic to me except for the soldering portions. Only thing Ill need to solder is the piggy back computer to the ECU. URD came out with direct connect couplers for the injectors so you dont need to cut and splice them anymore. I think the hardest part is going to be the connecting to the ECU and programing it to run right.

Brian also sent me the wrong pulley :chair:, He sent me the 2.1 when i had asked for the 2.2. Only difference he said is about 3/4 pound of boost. and told me I should be fine.

Where would be the best place to put the bung for the new O2 sensor at, id like to get an idea of where to put it. Just before the cat? or a few inch's away from the cat just before it? I plan on getting that put in today so i can get home and remove the S/C tonight to have it shipped out no later than tomarrow for the rebuild.

[mastacox]

Brian also sent me the wrong pulley :chair:, He sent me the 2.1 when i had asked for the 2.2. Only difference he said is about 3/4 pound of boost. and told me I should be fine.

I dunno, I'd get the 2.2" if I was you... The 2.1 exceeds maximum RPM specs on the supercharger at moderate engine speeds, and puts out about 2psi more than the 2.2" AFAIK. It's likely you'll need W/MI to use the 2.1" pulley, depending on local weather conditions.

For the O2 sensor, you should put it at least 6" before the cat if not more. Mine got put a little close to it (maybe 2-3" away) and I suspect I'll be experiencing early O2 sensor failures unless I get the sensor heatsink.

Got any pictures of the "direct fit adapters" for the injectors? The reason I ask is because I thought I was getting those too, it turns out what I got aren't adapters but theoretically you can solder on to the existing harness without removing the stock plugs, and then just leave the stock plugs unused... not very pretty if you ask me.

[Stevo3]

Got any pictures of the "direct fit adapters" for the injectors? The reason I ask is because I thought I was getting those too, it turns out what I got aren't adapters but theoretically you can solder on to the existing harness without removing the stock plugs, and then just leave the stock plugs unused... not very pretty if you ask me.


When I recieve them in the mail I will post up a pic. Anyways Heres my day....

Well, I got good news and 2x bad news.....

Well start off with the good news. The s/c is off and on its way to Magnuson and should be there by thursday. And the postage was only $50.35 with $1000 insurance on it.

Bad news #1. Was on the way to the muffler shop, made it about a mile or 2 from my house and all of a sudden a huge power loss, then belts sqealing up a storm.... The Bearings in the s/c seized up

Bad news #2. Never made it to the muffler shop to have the bung put in for the o2 sensor.

So in conclution, time to start wrenchin'

[Stevo3]

Well, finished up the installation of the fuel pump. Went smoothly except for the fact I didnt have a small floor jack to assist me. And when the tank was down and apart I got a nice mouth full of gas from siphoning the 1/4 tank I had left.

So I have a question, I cannot remove the exhaust pipe thats inbetween the downpipe and the cat to get the bung installed. So, because the URD computer has a preset in it to get my truck to alteast start up and run. Am I able to drive a few miles on it like that w/o having the afr meter hooked up. Its going to be the only way I can get it to the muffler shop to have the bung put on for it. What do you guys think?

[blink]

Steve, great to see a fellow another member from arizona getting supercharged.The supercharger's bypass valve will only close under moderate to heavy acceleration, so as long as your light on the pedal you wont create boost. This means that your engine will run as it normally did before you installed the s/c. If you have any questions or need a hand with your install feel free to ask. Ive been there and done those same mods on a 13 seconds Tacoma i had :)

[mastacox]

So I have a question, I cannot remove the exhaust pipe thats inbetween the downpipe and the cat to get the bung installed. So, because the URD computer has a preset in it to get my truck to alteast start up and run. Am I able to drive a few miles on it like that w/o having the afr meter hooked up. Its going to be the only way I can get it to the muffler shop to have the bung put on for it. What do you guys think?


Since you've got the 7th injector, you should be able to drive around no problem as long as you don't go into boost. Even when you go into boost, you might be ok depending on how accurate the default map is.

[Stevo3]

Since you've got the 7th injector, you should be able to drive around no problem as long as you don't go into boost. Even when you go into boost, you might be ok depending on how accurate the default map is.


I dont have the 7th injector kit, i have the grey s/c which doesnt provide the port for the 7th injector, i got the 6 new injectors from URD which are the 318cc bosch injectors. I need to call Brian again today about swapping out the 2.1 pulley to the 2.2, Im the person that is never lucky to get things right the first time :( but what can you do.

And Blink, Thanks for offereing assistance. Im sure i will be asking a few questions here and there.

Todays plans are installing the new injectors when i get home from work. And if i have enough time ill be tearing apart the dash to get the piggy back computer behind the dash cluster.

Heres a question for you guys, Should i just keep the boost line hooked up to the fuel pressure regulator? Im pretty sure thats what the instructions say, but they arent in front of me at the moment because im at work. *sigh*

I just want to work on my truck, the injectors and piggy back comp. are the last 2 steps i can do until the s/c is back in my possesion so i can get the bung put on for the o2 sensor.

[blink]

Stevo,, keep the boost line attached to the fuel pressure regulator.

[mastacox]

I dont have the 7th injector kit, i have the grey s/c which doesnt provide the port for the 7th injector, i got the 6 new injectors from URD which are the 318cc bosch injectors.

*duh* I knew that, I was thinking of Speedy on YT...

I think your truck should run with the default map but it's hard to say how well... You're just going to have to do it the hard way I guess, and see what happens. My map was far enough off that it wouldn't idle, and was very rich overall until i made some initial changes to the map. But being at high altitude, that might be why. I'd be willing to send you my map; that way if your ish doesn't work with the default you could try mine and see what happens... I think things will run well enough to drive to the exhaust shop anyway, as long as you stay out of boost.



Heres a question for you guys, Should i just keep the boost line hooked up to the fuel pressure regulator? Im pretty sure thats what the instructions say, but they arent in front of me at the moment because im at work. *sigh*

I just want to work on my truck, the injectors and piggy back comp. are the last 2 steps i can do until the s/c is back in my possesion so i can get the bung put on for the o2 sensor.


Yes, keep the FPR hooked up to the boost line.

[Stevo3]

Yeah, im willing to bet the high altitude has a lot to do with it, because they are located in california, assuming where they have tested the product there and came up with the maps at that altitude. Which isnt off by near as much as where you are located. So im guess i should be fine until i get to the shop to have the o2 bung welded on.

So, the s/c should be arriving at Magnuson today sometime early im hoping. So David can call me back with how bad the damages are and what itll cost to rebuild. Im anxious to hear whats all wrong with it.

Ill be having some questions on the wiring of the urd box, when i get home ill go over it again, but there are some things in there that confused me, like on certain ones 2 wires from the box go to one on the plugs. and it says one before the other orsomething of that sort.

And is there a power wire to that thing that i need to hook up to a separate fused line? or does it pull its power from the ecu itself?

[blink]

Usually those kits tell you to tap a 12v ignition wire for power. I personally run a dedicated power and ground wire from the battery for piece of mind :)

[Stevo3]

I dont recall seeing anything about tapping into the ignition, but if i run it separetly wont it be on all the time then?

[blink]

Yup, but the power draw is so minimal it wont run down your battery.

[Stevo3]

If the power is so minimal being drawn, why is it so bad to connect it directly to the ingition itself?

[blink]

Ive seen piggybacks do haywire things with a poor power source, poor ground, and being turned on and off with ignition.

[mastacox]

You're not going to want to give it an "always on" source straight from the battery, what you need to do is have it be on whenever the ECU is on.

What I did is get a Painless Cirkit Boss 7-circuit axillary fuse block from Summit Racing LINK (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRF%2D70207&N=700+115&autoview=sku). It's only $62.95, and is weatherproof. It has 4 circuits that are only on when your ignition is on, and then three that are always on. I plugged the "ign hot" line from the aux-block into the ECU's power wire, so whenever the ECU is on the block's 4 ignition-hot circuits are on, and then I powered the FTC and the Wideband O2 gauge and LC-1 controller each with it's own circuit. This way everything has its own fuse (which you can size based on the unit's current draw), definitely a good thing.

I repeat, wiring directly to the battery is BAD.

[blink]

Can you please elaborate on why its bad? I had my setup for many years and no problems.

[mastacox]

Can you please elaborate on why its bad? I had my setup for many years and no problems.


Easy, you don't want your FTC to be on all of the time, it will significantly degrade the lifespan of the unit. Why would you leave it on all the time if you aren't using it all the time??? It doesn't make sense when using a relay and/or aux fuse box is an easy and similarly inexpensive alternative.

Also, you don't have a fuse in-line and can easily start an electrical fire if the FTC goes kaput and grounds somehow.

[blink]

I didn't mean to imply running the unit without a fuse. My bad. I have yet to see the lifespan of a unit drastically decreased because of it always on (ran mine this way for close to 5 years). In fact, Ive seen more issues when you wired via ign scrabbling map settings. Not trying to proven that anything is wrong, just my personal experience after wiring a few of them :)

[Stevo3]

You're not going to want to give it an "always on" source straight from the battery, what you need to do is have it be on whenever the ECU is on.

What I did is get a Painless Cirkit Boss 7-circuit axillary fuse block from Summit Racing LINK (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=PRF%2D70207&N=700+115&autoview=sku). It's only $62.95, and is weatherproof. It has 4 circuits that are only on when your ignition is on, and then three that are always on. I plugged the "ign hot" line from the aux-block into the ECU's power wire, so whenever the ECU is on the block's 4 ignition-hot circuits are on, and then I powered the FTC and the Wideband O2 gauge and LC-1 controller each with it's own circuit. This way everything has its own fuse (which you can size based on the unit's current draw), definitely a good thing.

I repeat, wiring directly to the battery is BAD.

You got some pipctures you can put up tonight? Id like to see Where the wire gets rand from to the fuse panel.

[mastacox]

I didn't mean to imply running the unit without a fuse. My bad. I have yet to see the lifespan of a unit drastically decreased because of it always on (ran mine this way for close to 5 years). In fact, Ive seen more issues when you wired via ign scrabbling map settings. Not trying to proven that anything is wrong, just my personal experience after wiring a few of them :)


Well the fact is that leaving the unit on all the time is not the way to go, and using a fuse block or relay gives the unit power straight from the battery without having it on all the time.

I agree that trying to pull power off of the ECU's wire is not a good idea, since that wire is sized to power just the ECU not a bunch of extra mumbo jumbo (especially since the wideband unit and gauge would have to be powered off it too). By having it so the ECU's power wire triggers a relay, you can still have "pure" power from the battery without leaving the unit as a constant drain even when parked.

[mastacox]

You got some pipctures you can put up tonight? Id like to see Where the wire gets rand from to the fuse panel.


In the wiring instructions for the FTC, the FTC's power is tapped into a "red" wire on the ECU (at the time I just had to assume this was the power wire, turns out I was right). So, instead of tapping the FTC's power directly into the ECU's wire I plugged the auxiliary fuse block's "ign-hot" wire into it (that's the wire that activates the relay built-in to the block) and then powered the FTC using one of the auxiliary fuse block's circuits. This is better than trying to tap into say the cigarette lighter too, because the cig lighter is on in "ACC" mode, while the ECU is only on in "ON" mode on the ignition. As an added bonus, I was also able to power the wideband controller and gauge using the fuse block as well, and that way they only turn on when the ECU is on as well, not in "ACC" mode...

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures right now and I'll be going out of town for the weekend, but if you can wait till Monday night, I could pull the glove box and snap a few quick pics for ya. The setup is very slick looking, and the block looks factory under the hood since I covered the wires in plastic flexi-conduit. I also have to say that Painless' instructions and installation are super easy, even a caveman could do it :D

[mastacox]

And going back a little bit-



Yeah, im willing to bet the high altitude has a lot to do with it, because they are located in california, assuming where they have tested the product there and came up with the maps at that altitude. Which isnt off by near as much as where you are located. So im guess i should be fine until i get to the shop to have the o2 bung welded on.


Actually, the tune is altitude independent, because the unit uses a absolute pressure sensor. But, it was a little on the cold side when I was doing my first tuning, and large temperature changes can mess up your tune. Basically, I think my "summer tune" map would work o.k. as a temporary map for you, if you need it. Lots of people have mixed results with URD's default map, so just keep it in mind.

[blink]

Well the fact is that leaving the unit on all the time is not the way to go


Good to know for future reference. Could you please provide me with supporting documentation that states this? I am having a hard time finding it and would love to read up on it.

[mastacox]

Good to know for future reference. Could you please provide me with supporting documentation that states this? I am having a hard time finding it and would love to read up on it.


LOL perhaps you could show me some documentation showing leaving it on ALL THE TIME is the best way to go :gay: Obviously, neither of us has any. Might I point out, however, that the FTC's installation instructions call for you to install the unit with power directly from the ECU, which would make it turn off with the ECU as well.

I understand where you're coming from, but I have said and will still say adding a relay in so it turns off WITH THE ECU is a better method of power management; and in that light if you're not to sure of your wiring abilities the Painless Cirkit Boss is the easiest way to do it.

You can do whatever you feel is best (or perhaps just easiest?) but I'm trying to give the best information for the situation.

[Stevo3]

In the wiring instructions for the FTC, the FTC's power is tapped into a "red" wire on the ECU (at the time I just had to assume this was the power wire, turns out I was right). So, instead of tapping the FTC's power directly into the ECU's wire I plugged the auxiliary fuse block's "ign-hot" wire into it (that's the wire that activates the relay built-in to the block) and then powered the FTC using one of the auxiliary fuse block's circuits. This is better than trying to tap into say the cigarette lighter too, because the cig lighter is on in "ACC" mode, while the ECU is only on in "ON" mode on the ignition. As an added bonus, I was also able to power the wideband controller and gauge using the fuse block as well, and that way they only turn on when the ECU is on as well, not in "ACC" mode...

Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures right now and I'll be going out of town for the weekend, but if you can wait till Monday night, I could pull the glove box and snap a few quick pics for ya. The setup is very slick looking, and the block looks factory under the hood since I covered the wires in plastic flexi-conduit. I also have to say that Painless' instructions and installation are super easy, even a caveman could do it :D


So you just connected that extra fuse box onto the red wire that you were speaking of that connects to the ECU?

[96 Runner]

For the record my SMT6 would not work properly when tapping the power source to the ECU. My rig did some crazy stuff and wouldn't run right. Once I tapped a "constant" 12V source, all was good. It was strange. And yes, I was using a MM to figure all this out. As far as I could tell, there was enough of a voltage drop at the ECU at start-up to make the unit go haywire. This has happened to a few of us with SMT's.

[mastacox]

So you just connected that extra fuse box onto the red wire that you were speaking of that connects to the ECU?


In a manner of speaking, yes :D

The fuse box has a whole bunch of wires that come out of it, one controls the relay on-off action, Two are connected to the battery and "ground," and the rest are to get power to whatever you want. All of the wires are labeled according to what they do on their insulation, making wire identification very easy as well.

So, you mount the fuse box under the hood somewhere (mine's in front of the ABS actuator), wire the fuse box to the battery and ground, and then wire the "ign-hot" wire from the fuse box to the ECU's power wire. After that, you can wire up any accessories you want :clap:

[mastacox]

For the record my SMT6 would not work properly when tapping the power source to the ECU. My rig did some crazy stuff and wouldn't run right. Once I tapped a "constant" 12V source, all was good. It was strange. And yes, I was using a MM to figure all this out. As far as I could tell, there was enough of a voltage drop at the ECU at start-up to make the unit go haywire. This has happened to a few of us with SMT's.


Definitely an argument for getting power straight from the battery, rather than pulling power from the ECU.

Is your SMT-6 on all the time, or do you turn it off some how?

[96 Runner]

Is your SMT-6 on all the time, or do you turn it off some how?


It's always on. And my 4R isn't a DD, so it sits for days at a time. The power draw is small, so I've never had an issue. I wish it would work the other way, but it won't. Oh well.

Maybe it's a 96 or SMT thing?

[Stevo3]

Okay, that settles it then, I will temporarily have it connected straight from the batter (ofcoarse with a fused line). Until I can get that thing your talking about mastacox

[Stevo3]

You guys arent going to believe this... Im telling you guys as I said before, I have the worst luck...

So, Im installing the injectors, get the rails off, get the old injectors out. replace the old rubber gaskets on the manifold. Proceed to oil the new injectors and started to place them in. When I got to the 5th injector, started to put a little bit of oil on the o-rings and noticed something wasnt right. And well, the part the goes into the rail was never modified like the rest of them to fit into it... :( So im at a halt with the installation of the injectors until I recieve the new one... Im just glad I was taking my time and noticed it before I tried putting the rail back on and end up screwing up that injector.

[96 Runner]

That just plain sucks. Who's QA department screwed that one up? :)

[Stevo3]

That just plain sucks. Who's QA department screwed that one up? :)


I think Brian was just rushing to get the package out to me asap. Im not too extremly worried about it, the s/c is at magnuson right now. So I still have some time to complete the mods. I guess while im waiting for the injector to come in, I'll tear apart the dash and get the FTC installed behind the gauge cluster. Then have my buddies g/f come do the soldering of the wires on to the ECU. Rather have her do it than myself. Shes an electrical engineer?? something of that sort.

[Stevo3]

Here mastacox, I think this is what you were looking for :)

http://i106.photobucket.com/albums/m271/Stevo-3/InjectorWire.jpg

Brian told me they just got them recently when I talked to him 2 weeks ago.

[mastacox]

Here mastacox, I think this is what you were looking for :)

Brian told me they just got them recently when I talked to him 2 weeks ago.


Nice :thumbup: I wish I had those when I installed my kit.

[Stevo3]

Yeah, Im glad I wont have to cut the old plugs off. Incase it ever needs to go back to stock for some reason. Makes it that much easier.

[mastacox]

Yeah, Im glad I wont have to cut the old plugs off. Incase it ever needs to go back to stock for some reason. Makes it that much easier.


Yeah, but that would probably be one of the easier parts. The hard part would be soldering all of the ECU harness back together, especially the "intercepted" wires that the FTC uses. I kept my stock injector plugs for the unlikely event that some time in the future I must return to N/A.

[Stevo3]

I have a few questions about the soldering of the wires.... Some of them there are 2 that go to one wire, One that goes just before the "sensor" and the other that goes right before the ecu.??? What is meant by this? i must extend the certain wire to put it just before the sensor? or just put the both on the same line?

[mastacox]

I have a few questions about the soldering of the wires.... Some of them there are 2 that go to one wire, One that goes just before the "sensor" and the other that goes right before the ecu.??? What is meant by this? i must extend the certain wire to put it just before the sensor? or just put the both on the same line?


I think you mean the wires that "intercept" the signal rather than just "tap into" them.

There are two different types of modifications done to the ECU harness with the install of the FTC, one is where you just cut back the insulation of the wire without cutting the wire itself. This is for seeing what the ECU is reading (like RPM), but not affecting the signal itself. The other modification is the "intercepted" signal where you cut the wire; one side goes to the sensor where the wire was coming from, and the other side goes to the ECU. The two sides of the cut wire go to the two wires on the FTC for them.

[mastacox]

BTW, I haven't forgotten I need to take pics of my auxiliary fuse block setup and post them, but my Windoze installation died on my home computer so I'm trying to fix it. Hopefully tonight...

[Stevo3]

So, what your saying is i would cut the wire in 2 spots, place the wire that says to go to the sensor like 6 inchs before the ecu, and then the one that goes to the ecu like 2-3 inchs away from the ecu???

[mastacox]

So, what your saying is i would cut the wire in 2 spots, place the wire that says to go to the sensor like 6 inchs before the ecu, and then the one that goes to the ecu like 2-3 inchs away from the ecu???


No. If we are talking about the same thing, this is what I mean-

Step 1: Cut the wire about 2-3 inches from the ECU. This gives you two "sides," one that goes to the ECU (2-3" long now) and one that goes to wherever the wire is coming from, a.k.a. the "sensor side."

Step B: Solder the appropriate connections onto the now cut wire according to the instructions. One wire coming out of the FTC will go to the "ECU side" and the other will solder on to the "sensor side."

Which wires in the installation instructions are you referring to?

[Stevo3]

Ahhhh i gotcha, that explained it. The wiring for the split second computer. The ones that have more than one wire going to the wire to the ecu. but that just simplified it the best.

so the wire that was cut in half will not meet back up with its original wire, but will make the circuit through the ftc through the 2 wires used! :thumbup: awsome! Now i feel i can do the soldering myself, that is what was holding me back from doing it in the first place.

[mastacox]

Ahhhh i gotcha, that explained it. The wiring for the split second computer. The ones that have more than one wire going to the wire to the ecu. but that just simplified it the best.

so the wire that was cut in half will not meet back up with its original wire, but will make the circuit through the ftc through the 2 wires used! :thumbup: awsome! Now i feel i can do the soldering myself, that is what was holding me back from doing it in the first place.


Sweet :thumbup:

[Stevo3]

What you said explained a lot, When i was reading the instructions i was sitting there clueless at what i was reading. I thought the 2 wires had to be tapped into the same line with it still connecting directly to the ecu, if you know what im trying to say. So i think im going to install the ftc today, and finish it.

What did you use to wrap around the ftc to put it behind the dash cluster to prevent it from touching the dash screws and bouncing around and such.

btw, i recieved the last modified injector last night, so i can finally put together my engine except for the s/c, supposed to be getting a call about it today with the damages and price to rebuild.

[mastacox]

What did you use to wrap around the ftc to put it behind the dash cluster to prevent it from touching the dash screws and bouncing around and such.


I wrapped the FTC in masking tape, and then used some foam to "wedge" it in between the dash pad and the A/C ducts. However, I think I may want to change it due to flammability concerns...

I want to relocate the FTC to hard-mounted under the passenger seat since the unit can't really be hard-mounted behind the dash, and I desire the most vibration resistance possible. Problem is, the unit is "stuck" in there right now because the wires are going between the A/C ducts and the dash, and the FTC itself won't fit through there. I'm going to have to somehow remove the entire dash pad to relocate the FTC, which to say the least is a huge PITA.

Moral of the story, I would recommend hard-mounting the FTC under your passenger seat to maximize accessibility and expand your mounting options. Just route the wiring harness under the door jam cladding, and the ECU is right there. This will probably make wiring easier as well.

[Stevo3]

Yeah only one problem with mounting it there. Thats where my ps2/dvd player is located. and my 12 disc cd changer is under the driver seat.

[mastacox]

Well, I guess behind the gauges it is then. I would probably try using some very long zip-ties to strap it into place back there.

[Stevo3]

Yeah, Ill just put a couple zipties together to make a long one. Ill figure something out while its back there.

I just need to go to home depot to get some rubberized foam type stuff to wrap around it. Or ill just get the thin rubber sheets to put around it then bubble wrap then duct tape.

Which thinking of i need to go to best buy and get another serial to usb connector so i can connect both the obd2 scanner and ftc at the same time.

[Stevo3]

Just got off the phone with David from Magnuson. The s/c need a complete overhaul. And the cost to rebuild it is 707 and some change, but thats not including labor.

Takes 2 days to rebuild so ill have it back next week no later than wednesday.

I can barly handle not driving my truck for a week, now I have to wait another :(

[mastacox]

Just got off the phone with David from Magnuson. The s/c need a complete overhaul. And the cost to rebuild it is 707 and some change, but thats not including labor.


So I assume they're replacing the rotors along with the bearings? Drive gears too? What was the final diagnosis as to what seized up?

[96 Runner]

How about mounting the FTC behind the passenger side kick panel? My SMT is there.

[mastacox]

How about mounting the FTC behind the passenger side kick panel? My SMT is there.


It's probably too fat. The FTC is a lot bigger than the SMT-6 AFAIK.

[Stevo3]

Ill check it out, thats a lot easier than taking the dash apart. And if it doesnt fit, well its easy to put back together :hillbill:

Anyways, is it safe to turn the ignition on to pressurized the fuel lines to check for leakes while the s/c is off. just as long as i dont crank it over?

[Stevo3]

Ohh, i didnt get the complete dignosis, he just told me they are replacing everything on it. And for what siezed, i believe it was the bearing in the rear. thats what it sounded like when you tried to hand spin it.

[Stevo3]

Well, come to find out the fuel pump doesnt actually work unless the truck is running. Or atleast that is what im hoping. I just wanted to test it for leaks because i just finished putting together the fuel rails. and id rather be safe than sorry when it comes time to start her up. Also wanted to check the lines on the gastank, but when i opened the gas cap there was pressure in there so i believe those lines are fine.

How would i go by testing to see if the fuel rails & injectors are sealed w/o starting the truck?

[mastacox]

Well, come to find out the fuel pump doesnt actually work unless the truck is running. Or atleast that is what im hoping. I just wanted to test it for leaks because i just finished putting together the fuel rails. and id rather be safe than sorry when it comes time to start her up. Also wanted to check the lines on the gastank, but when i opened the gas cap there was pressure in there so i believe those lines are fine.

How would i go by testing to see if the fuel rails & injectors are sealed w/o starting the truck?



The way I did it was put the fuel rail on (but didn't bolt it down), and judged the resistance while rotating the injector in place. The resistance seemed equal for all injectors, which in turn seemed to indicate all of the injectors were seated equally (and hopefully correctly). Worked for me :tapedshut:

You might be able to turn on the fuel pump by directly hooking up the leads to a 12V source, but short of starting the engine there isn't really any way to do it otherwise.

[96 Runner]

I am willing to bet Magnuson has some rebuilt TRD superchargers around. The reason I say that is because they turned mine in a day and unless they're hurting for business (pretty sure they're not), that's just unbelievable. I mean, I had mine sent out and back on the rig in something like 6 business days. Another reason I say that is because the case looked "newer" and external parts were brand new.

Steve - Be sure to use a torque wrench on the fuel rail bolts and to follow the tightening pattern in the FSM (criss-cross). You'll be fine.

[Stevo3]

I am willing to bet Magnuson has some rebuilt TRD superchargers around. The reason I say that is because they turned mine in a day and unless they're hurting for business (pretty sure they're not), that's just unbelievable. I mean, I had mine sent out and back on the rig in something like 6 business days. Another reason I say that is because the case looked "newer" and external parts were brand new.

Steve - Be sure to use a torque wrench on the fuel rail bolts and to follow the tightening pattern in the FSM (criss-cross). You'll be fine.


I checked them all like mastacox did before bolting them down, they all felt equal.

And for the s/c, you have the gen2 and im sure they do have those rebuilds laying around. I wouldnt think the would have any of the Gen1's they are becoming pretty rare. I could always try convincing them to swap it out for the gen2 tho :hillbill:

[96 Runner]

Oh yeah, I forgot you had that 1st gen. My bad!

I guess it's possible they have some of those lying around too, but unlikely.

[Stevo3]

Well finishing up everything on saturday, i ran into several problems.... Had my buddies g/f solder up the wires on the split second box to the ECU, as i finished up under the hood. Well i finished up torquin down the fuel rails and installing the spark plugs. Then i dig throught the box of goodies to look for the 170 thermostat... NOT there.... Is it going to be a HUGE deal if i dont use the 170 tstat and use the stock 180 tstat???

She gets to the second to last wire. The instructions tell you to put tap into Plug A Pin 12, which is supposed to be black with yellow stripe being the RPM wire. WRONG.... And note, these are instructions for a 96 5-speed. There is a Black w/ yellow stripe wire, but its on Plug A Pin 17. Well, i call up underdog, being 5:45 pm in cali i figured no one would be there. Well, i was wrong. Gadget answered. I told him my problem and he told me to email it to him so he could look at it a bit later because he was busy working on something else. And about 3 hours later he emailed me back telling me that i should have recieved 2 pages on the wiring diagrams. One for Automatic, and one for Manual. And as i said before i got just the one for the Manual. Then he proceded to tell me that for the Automatics Its plug A pin 12, And manuals its Plug A pin 17. So i dont know what happened there with the instructions???

Anyways, ftc1 is installed and safely secured behind the gauges, even managed to get a ziptie around the box and the frame behind the dash.

The S/C should be arriving if not today, definetly tomarrow. So Im getting pretty excited. Ive went through a few bumps in the road on installation of the urd kit, but i took my time and did a nice job. Technically 3 steps left, but 2 major ones. Installation of the S/C and Installation of the wideband sensor. Almost there :smokin:

[blink]

Its not a HUGE deal to run without the thermostat, but I would recommend getting it and installing it as soon as you can.

[Stevo3]

Shes ALIVE!!!!

Got the s/c in today, looks great and you can actually spin it by hand!

Installed it, started cranked it over and it started pretty much right away, even with not having any fuel in the lines or rails! No fuel leaks either :clap: :hillbill:

So now its time to go have the wide-band o2 installed tomarrow after work. Then goes the tuning!

BTW, Who in Arizona is willing to give me a hand with it. I think i can tackle the low closed loop trims myself. doesnt seem too complicated. Although the pre setting isnt too bad.

-2.3 and 3.8 was the average on the fuel trims when i had it running for a while.

Ohh, and i just wired the power to the ecu power. Working good, no problems (as of yet_

[Stevo3]

Dang it..... Gadgets U-Tune page is expired :(

Does anyone have the PDF files saved to their computer i can download and print off? :headscratch:

Ive read it once to get an understanding of it, but i didnt have a printer to print it off with. And now that im a work i have a printer to print with and the sites down :(

Someone please help :bowdown:

[mastacox]

So, I know this is a little late, but did you get the U-Tune guide? I have the PDF if you need it...

[Stevo3]

So, I know this is a little late, but did you get the U-Tune guide? I have the PDF if you need it...


Yep. I got it printed up. Didnt end up really needing it. Blink has showed me what needs to be done for tuning it. Well be tuning it some more this weekend, we just got a good base tune set up so i can atleast safely drive it w/o damaging anything. Just needs a fine tune and ill be good to go.

Although, I do get a sputter every once in a while in idle. Id say like every 20 - 30 seconds sounds like it misfires or soemthing, a stumble in idle. Its hard to explain the sound.

[96 Runner]

If we don't go camping I will try to stop by during the tuning session at Doug's this weekend. :)

That stumble might be the lack of a IAC connector (often missed when purchasing a used SC'r kit), or that it's in backwards. It's a cheap part. In fact, you could theoretically use a PCV valve instead (I think I did that). Just a thought.

Also, you should do the coolant bypass mod this weekend. It's way easy and only costs $2 (connector and distilled H20).

[Stevo3]

If we don't go camping I will try to stop by during the tuning session at Doug's this weekend. :)

That stumble might be the lack of a IAC connector (often missed when purchasing a used SC'r kit), or that it's in backwards. It's a cheap part. In fact, you could theoretically use a PCV valve instead (I think I did that). Just a thought.

Also, you should do the coolant bypass mod this weekend. It's way easy and only costs $2 (connector and distilled H20).



IAC connector??? The one way valve that goes into the line under the TB? And yeah, Doug already mentioned to me to do the bypass on it.

Hope to see you there Christian, im interested in checking out your rig with all the rhino liner on it :D

[Stevo3]

Just an update on how things are going with the fuel mods...

HORRIBLE. After all was installed and Blink helped me with an initial tune all was good. Ran good for a week. Went back to Blink's to fine tune it. Then everything went haywire. The AFR's were very inconsistant. And it was pinging worse than what came with the ftc as a stock tune. Im at a very dissapointment because ive dumped quite a bit of cash on this for it not to work correct. Ohh when the LM-1 was turned on and was warming up is said it only had like 9.5 - 10 volts to it.

There are 3 things Blink and I came up with that could be the problem.

A: Right off the bat. FTC1-E is bad.

B: Battery not holding enough charge.

C: Alternator may have a diode out.

Well after I left his house Saturday night. I kept the truck mostly about 10 vacume. Took the freeway home. After i got off the freeway I put it back into boost (2 psi), which is where i got it to ping the most when it went haywire on us, And it worked as it should. The next light came up, tried it again. Worked fine again. Thinking about this now, maybe the batter is bad or the alternator is bad. Went to Autozone Sunday, they both checked out fine :headscratch:. And everything was working properly once again on sunday. The LM-1 when turned on and warming up showed anywhere from 11 volts to 12.5

So this morning i head to work and put it into 2psi again and watch my lm-1. It keeps show anywhere from 14.0 - 15.4 afr in all boost ranges and rpm's..... Check the LM-1 again and its back down to 9.5-10.0 volts. The problem came back, its just not pinging..... what the hell is wrong with my $#^!. Im pretty close to just yanking everything off now and selling it all. Im not a happy camper for the money i spent into this kit.

What do you guys think?

[mastacox]

I think the first thing to do is make sure your electrical system is working properly, get the battery and alternator checked. If you're only seeing 9 or 10 volts while the engine is running that could be an alternator issue...

After that, I would check the FTC settings and make sure you got them all right (4-stroke, 6 cylinder, etc.) as laid out in the U-tune guide.

That's a start anyway.

[Stevo3]

I think the first thing to do is make sure your electrical system is working properly, get the battery and alternator checked. If you're only seeing 9 or 10 volts while the engine is running that could be an alternator issue...

After that, I would check the FTC settings and make sure you got them all right (4-stroke, 6 cylinder, etc.) as laid out in the U-tune guide.

That's a start anyway.


I had the battery and alt checked twice now. Both times they checked out fine. Its only reading that 9 - 10 volts from the LM-1 unit when the engine is not running.

Got home yesterday and cleaned the terminals and posts on the battery and that didnt make a difference. It was too damn hot outside to start tearing apart the dash in the sun. Ill have the garage to do it tonight. But I KNOW its not the wiring to the ecu but its not going to hurt to check it over again. I already know its not the boost line going to the FTC, because I have hooked up the FTC to my laptop and it follows the box's according to the boost. So the unit is getting power if I can connect to it through my laptop.

Im starting to get a strong feeling that the FTC unit is bad.

Hey Mastacox. How does the N/A engine run w/o an ftc computer and just a AFR reader. Does the computer always try to keep it at 14.7 AFR in closed loop, then in open loop is when it dumps the fuel to richen it up? Because i have noticed with this issue, The AFR is always trying to be 14.7 until i mash the pedal to get it into open loop, then it proceeds to put it to 12.0 - 12.5 AFR.

[Markduce]

Bad ground maybe or not grounded good enough. That is the only thing i can think of. Good luck with it Steve, you have been at it for awhile now.

[blink]

does the N/A engine run w/o an ftc computer and just a AFR reader. Does the computer always try to keep it at 14.7 AFR in closed loop, then in open loop is when it dumps the fuel to richen it up? Because i have noticed with this issue, The AFR is always trying to be 14.7 until i mash the pedal to get it into open loop, then it proceeds to put it to 12.0 - 12.5 AFR.


Yup, but the ftc is supposed to be able to modify those closed loop parameters by utilizing the signal conditioner.....

[Stevo3]

Yup, but the ftc is supposed to be able to modify those closed loop parameters by utilizing the signal conditioner.....



Well then, very last thing i can do is try to richen it up through the ftc maps now, i have installed the new o2 sensor. barly any ping at all, but still too lean. If that doesnt work, the ftc has gotta be bad, and i cant afford having my truck down another month cause im sure URD is going to want to send out and test the unit before they send me a new one...

[Stevo3]

Forgot to add, seems as if the ftc unit is "just there" Completing all the circuits but not doing anything.

[Stevo3]

UPDATE:

Well, yanked the ftc out last night, shipping it back to URD for the "bench test". So well see if the unit is bad or not. I dont see anything else causing a problem, wish me luck guys.

[mastacox]

Ouch, that sucks man. Good luck getting things going again.

[Stevo3]

Ouch, that sucks man. Good luck getting things going again.


Thanks, im going to need all the luck i can get, cause i sure seem to have none of it.

[Stevo3]

Well just an update,

That FTC checked out fine. But Brian sent me a new one. But im still having the same issues. Mid range boost it goes up to 18.5 afr's. But when i do WOT to activate open loop it goes to 12- 12.5 afrs. I dont know what the hell the problem is.

I have changed out the MAF, bought a new front O2 sensor, And even got a new TPS. I dont know where else to look or even what next to begin with because those are the 3 main things that affect the afr's. Yet i dont understand when it hits open loop the afrs are good, but closed they are all very inconsistant.

Anyone have any ideas at all???????????????????? Im damn near of giving up and running my truck with stock injectors w/o the ftc. It ran better like that.