Dana 60 rearend truss design

[cougarfreak]

I am installing a Dana 60 rearend into my rig and am requesting design advice. I am using 0.120 wall 2"x4" rectangular tubing for the truss. Is "A" going to be better than "B"? Lighter, yes (I kinda threw lightweight rearend out the window when I decided to go with a D60), but will it justify the extra effort to get to "A"?
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/truss%20mock.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

Looks like the largest holes will be about 1.5" in diameter? Using the conservative estimate that all the holes are 1.5" and that there are equivalent to 23 of them, you save a grand total of 1.4 lbs. It seems like a rear dana 60 weighs about 300lbs so that's a 0.4% savings.

I think I'd skip the holes.

[cougarfreak]

Thank you for doing the math for me. I arrived at that conclusion as well (although not as thoroughly as you've thought it through)... I'm almost done cutting out B and hope to have it welded in Tuesday. I'll post pics when finished.

[cougarfreak]

heat welding area with propane torch, 1" welds per session, each session welding each corner alternating sides and ends, working from outside in. 30 min cool down between each session. tack 2" square tubing (cut off and ground after final cool) to the bottom side of the axle tubes...:welder: hopefully weld it this week.
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/truss%20mock%20B.jpg

[cougarfreak]

Now I just gotta clean the axle and weld it!!!
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_4267%20Weld%20ready%20Truss.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

I had to think about that for a minute. It sounded like you were going to weld it with a propane torch. Then I realized you're going to heat it with the propane torch to prevent warping, then weld it.

Good luck.

[cougarfreak]

hahhaha that would be trick, yeah?

However, I've been informed that I will be lucky not to have a bent axle welding only to one side of the tube, and that I should consider a small truss on the bottom side of the axle as well to even out the heat and shrinkage to both sides. I'm trying to avoid a bent axle here. If I'm going to be lucky NOT to have a bent axle after welding in this truss as I have it, I'm a fool for putting it in as it sits in the first place. Luck and I rarely get togther at the same time. For rock crawling, I soooo don't need it. But that's only part of the vehicle's designed adventures. I also want to be able to fly in the desert and dunes, and for that, I'm thinking I do need it. i know I can't have my cake and eat it too, but I wanna come close!!! Build it for the worst conditions in any one particular adventure without severely detracting from any other adventure. that's my philosophy. Am I over thinking this? Probably, but I don't like doing things twice, and I don't want bent tubes again!!!!

[cougarfreak]

Possible solutions include... not trussing at all (get's me on the trail quicker, but worried), Trussing the back:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/truss%20mock%20C%20top%20n%20bak.jpg

or the bottom:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/truss%20mock%20D%20top%20n%20bot.jpg

[Robinhood4x4]

I don't know, I welded the truss on my toy axle pretty similar to what you were planning, sans preheat. I turned the heat down and did 1 inch at a time at opposite ends of the truss. No warpage that I know of.

[cougarfreak]

I am having serious thoughts of ditching this whole idea of trussing the axles and just not jumping the rig. The axles are only one area the jumping abuse will effect. I'm not racing it, and I rock crawl more than I run the desert. The reality of NOT needing trusses for mild desert running/chasing/prerunning, and certainly not rock crawling is very real. In reality my rig is more set up for rock crawling anyway with only 2.5" of uptravel in the front end. sure I could go more, but then it would be taller and th CG would be higher... I'm thinking I'm trying to go to an extreme that just isn't realistic for this rig. I'll build a 700 truck and jump it if I really need to jump something... or just use my quad... I do appreciate everyone's input, and thank you very much. I haven't given up yet, but I am considering it.

[Mossyrocks]

what about just a simple round tube truss. That way its less welding and in turn not as much a risk. Also it seems a pretty happy medium. Ill probably do it on my rear 60 just for the hell of it.

[cougarfreak]

I've considered that, and have seen some pretty nice looking ones, but I'm going to give the one I have cut out a try. I'm done being nervous, and just need to buckle down and start welding. Thanks for the advice tho!!!!

[cougarfreak]

A little update on progress:
I welded on the air bump plates:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5002%20Air%20bump%20pads%20on.jpg

http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5003%20Air%20bump%20pads%20side.jpg

and carved out the truss to fit the pads:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5004%20Truss%20w%20bumps.jpg

http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5005%20Truss%20n%20bumps%20front.jpg

Welded on the shock tabs and bolted on the shocks:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5007%20shock%20tabs.jpg

http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_5006%20shocks%20mounted.jpg

Next up, carve the truss to fit the rear shock tab and shock, then it's TRUSS WELDING TIME!!!!!!

[slosurfer]

:drool:

[wifesaysimadumbass]

that truss looks like it's gonna be sick but i still cant picture you needing a truss on a 60 unless you were getting some serious air

[cougarfreak]

I want that option, and I think I'm set up to do it!!! Pismo in November has me jonesin for airborne flight!!!! I'm going to look seriously at the motor mounts, 'cause I think I may need to gusset those too.

[cougarfreak]

Air bump pads gussetted to prevent distortion due to impact:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_8497%20bump%20gusset.jpg

Truss trimmed to fit shock tabs, then tacked:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_8500%20Tacked%20Truss.jpg

and finish welded WOO HOO!!!!
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_8518%20Truss%20Finish%20welded.jpg
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_8520%20Truss%20welded%20side.jpg

I decided to weld a cap between the truss and the rear face of the housing to cover a gap there. Doing so will avoid collecting mud and rocks:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_8519%20Housing%20welded.jpg

Apparently the cast portion of the housing crystalizes when welded. If left to cool on it's own it may crack the weld. All of my welding gurus (Thanks Matt, Dave, and Oscar!!!!) recommended I use a center punch and tap it with a hammer every 1/8th inch or so right next ot the welds on the cast side, or reheating and cooling multiple times to slow the cool to prevent crackage. The center punch method worked wonderfully. There's a pneumatic tool called a scaler that apparently does the same thing, but I didn't have quick access to one. Best I can tell there was no warpage to the tubes and everything appears to work as designed (wheeeew). I'll post with installed pics shortly.

[cougarfreak]

Alright, I guess a little update is in order (yes I have been working on my junk, just SLOWLY)... I trussed the front end, photos to be posted soon, similar to how I did the rear. I took both axles to Performance Cryogenics in Lincoln (1.5 hour drive one way, but quite beautiful and in the middle of NOWHERE) to see if I had warped them. Problem was, Dean and the boyz were in LAS VEGAS at the SEMA show and wouldn't be back until FRIDAY (Dumba** me didn't call first... ROOKIE). On my liesurly drive back home, I had an epiphany to call Sean at River City Diffs to see if he could perform the warp test... sho 'nuff!!! The first thing out of Bill's mouth (Sean's 2nd in command... i think) was, "Holy over weld job!!!" Not exactly what I wanted to hear. Turns out in my attempt at welding trusses on the axles to prevent them from bending, I wound up with bent axles (insert favorite 4 letter word here, a couple of times). He said I was going to have to start over... NOT!!!! Then Sean stepped in and mentioned Lincoln Welding and Machining and said Cliff could straighten my pair of bananas for under $500. I called it good and gutted the axles and dropped them off at Lincoln. I hope to get them back by next Friday so I can start putting everything back together.

[Robinhood4x4]

Ah that sucks, man.

[freejake3]

I believe there's a lesson to all of us in your story bro. Did they recommend anything
specific if one was to weld a truss onto an axle? I still liked the rear trusslike on so
many trophy trucks. Do you think fabricating some sort of jig to hold thte axle square
prior to the truss welding would have helped the warpage?

[cougarfreak]

I'm going to pick Cliff's brain to see what a home fabber could do to prevent this from happening to anyone else. I did get the advice of finding a jig to put the housing in to keep it from warping, but that was only one person's view amongst hundreds that replied. I didn't know what a jig even looked like, and didn't do any research to find out (20/20 hindsight). A gentleman on Pirate4x4.com's forum made mention of putting a bottle jack under the diff with chains anchoring the outter ends of the tubes downward to put a counter bend on the axle during welding. I thought maybe laying equal bead opposite the axle as where the truss is being welded to whether that be top bottom might help. That way there is equal pull top to bottom. then I thought it might warp front to back... I dunno, but I'll post any helpful hints he gives me. I'm just bummed that with the techniques I described I was going to employ, I wasn't cautioned more vehemently about warpage. In fact a few of my "trusted welder" friends didn't think it would warp at all. Ah well, my $500 education benefits everyone on this forum!!!

[freejake3]

My sliders were my first experience with not only warpage but the need for
either bracing or a jig. SInce then I have build both my front and rear bumper
using a ton of cross-directional bracing. Both did not warp nearly as bad as the
sliders. That being said - I believe all metal will warp to some degree but
combating this with the proper bracing will undoubtedly help. One idea would be
to rest the whole axle on a 1/4" sheet, tack the axle to not only the jack-stands
but use additional bracing from the sheet to the axle itself. A site I often
refer to for my fabrication advice is found here: www.offroadfabnet.com. Keep
us posted.

[cougarfreak]

Oh i'll be doing some serious surfing of that site. Thanks freejake3!!!!

Here's da frunt truss.
Templates:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_4132%20Truss%20Templates.jpg

Long side:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_6379%20Long%20side%20truss.jpg

Knuckle Gussett:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_6380%20Knuckle%20truss.jpg

Full view:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_6373%20Front%20Trussed.jpg

[slosurfer]

Bummer! So, I take it that this is why you didn't make Surf N Turf? I looked all over for your rig. Your rig was on the big screen though when they were showing videos and you were with a bunch of 80's in Moab or something.

[cougarfreak]

Yup deadline killer. I had it made until I found out the axles were bent. I'd have put it all back together in time, I just know it!!!! ah, well. I've seen some pics of SnT from the 80's group, who I did wheel with in Moab last year and the year prior at Cruise Moab. I'll be wheeling with y'all soon!!!!

[cougarfreak]

Update:
Cliff said that my welds leaked hot dip fluid indicating, even though I preheated before welding, my 110v Weldmark 135+ just didn't have enough ass to start hot enough didn't penetrate well until further down the weld. He drilled an 1/8th" hole in the truss to help drain fluid that may collect in it during water crossings. My whole reasoning for solid welding it just went out the window. I was trying to avoid rusting out the inside of the truss. Ah, well. Live and learn!!!!

He also told me the axle was warped before I pulled it outta the junk yard, though my welding on the top didn't help the situation. Spun races in the diff's journal showed signs of massive wear. He was able to straighten the axles and clean up the wear, so I'm good to go, $580 later. The rear d60 was bout 1/2" outta whack. I'll pick them up tomorrow and ask him how I can advise my fellow homefabbers on welding trusses without warping the axle and post that advise here.

[cougarfreak]

managed to get both axles slung and greased and put together... but to get there, I had to drill and tap a bleed valve, broke an ez-out trying to get it to thread out, chiseled the top of the valve off to get the broken tip out, then broke the tip of the tap off trying to get the threads back. Luckily everything came out in a decent amount of time, and I was able to salvage the tap and threads and was able to get a new bleed valve to stay in. I may have to over drill it and put a helicoil in to get it to seal properly (hopefully it won't come to that), or just get a new caliper (NOOOOOO!!!)

Just when I'm about to call it a night and install the front calipers, I find that they won't mount on the Waggy backing plates that I blasted and painted so nicely won't work with the 8 lug Chevy hubs I've swapped to. Apparently the Chevy hubs have more centrally located rotor placement leaving more material at the back requiring less dish to the backing plate than the Waggy hub. So here I am, 1am with the daunting task of tearing down both front hubs, changing to the dirty rusty Chevy backing plate (that I fortunately had in my closet).

Got a new caliper from Quality, out of a Deville for some strange reason (3rd order was the charm) and put it in. All's tight now, but the front brakes just aren't up to snuff. A bit more research showed this is common and a fix is to go with a Chevy Master Cylinder. I've got a 1/2 ton one ($30) going in as soon as I receive the Sky Manufacturing adapter plate ($35).

Another glaring issue reared it's ugly head and that is the power steer lines that I have zip tied and hose clamped to the radiator arcing over the fan with no shroud :shock: have created a small leak in the radiator. I never did like the positioning of them, and mounted them expecting to put a shroud on. Turns out I'd need to make a custom shroud, and the fact of the matter is that I haven't had any cooling issues with out a shroud.

Taco speedo sensor works great, in fact with 4.56 gears and 35" tires, it reads exactly what my GPS reads.

I got the radiator fixed at the local shop for $35 to heliarc it and make sure it's sealed.

The power steer banjo bolt was the next problem area. Getting the air box outta the way was a HUGE help (Rookie to not have removed it sooner, I know) to get the banjo fitting disconnected via a 11/32nds wrench on the nut under the banjo fitting and a breaker bar. I got some 2250psi hose from the local hydraulics shop at 3.88/ft, and got some extra for on the trail spare fixer if need be.

Res end:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_7961%20Res%20fitting%204x6.jpg

Steer box end:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_7959%20Toy%20steer%20box%20fitting%204x6.jpg

Hose detail:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_7960%20HP%20hose%204x6.jpg


Hoses routed out of harm's way:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_7962%20Hoses%20routed%204x6.jpg

I've got a plastic dipped clamp I just installed tonite, so no worries about it chewing into the line for a while:
http://www.cougarfreakphoto.com/files/IMG_7963%20hose%20clamp%204x6.jpg

P-brake and rear spare carrier are next on the list. I just registered for Rubithon, and it looks like I'll be attending. I'm going to go with the 80's NorCal group on Wednesday 8am. I've bookended the 'Con, but never completely went from one side to the other. I'm WAY excited!!!!

[slosurfer]

:thumbup: Have fun on the Con!

Are you going to make it to Pismo this year, either for the Pismo 4RJ in Oct. or SNT in Nov.?

[cougarfreak]

SNT, oh yeah!!! I may try and hit the 4rj too, depends on my son's soccer. He's starting metro this year...