Level a cement floor

[MTL_4runner]

I'm working on putting some tile in my basement (it is a full cement basement, not just a slab) and the floor had some pretty decent slope to it in some areas (must have been getting too close to 3:30 when they did that section of the floor). I've looked at glueing down plywood directly on the slab. Some people suggested a 2x4 subfloor, but that takes WAY too much height. I've also thought about laying down a bed of mortar but it can be a pain to get level and the edge will need to be feathered at one end so that might not be such a great idea. Finally I started researching the self-leveling cement such as TEC EZ Level like we have at Home Depot up here. It's alot more expensive at almost $37 CDN per bag, but honestly if the aggrivation factor of using this stuff is low (other than having to mix batches extremely fast), then I'll pay up to save some headache.

So have any of you out there used SLC's? Which do you recommend? Any pointers?
Your help on this is greatly appreciated.

[slosurfer]

Jamie, I am a tile contractor and I use Level Quick made by "Custom" all the time. It is probably similar to the stuff you have listed. The HD's down here sell the Level Quick instead. How much slope are you talking about here? Also, what size tiles, etc...?

[MTL_4runner]

Chris, it probably slopes down about 2-3" at the lowest point across the floor. The room itself is fairly small, about 5' X 12' so it shouldn't be too bad to get filled with SLC (I hope.....I've never used that stuff before myself).

I was going to use real tile, but now I'm leaning more towards using linoleum instead since real tile can be very cold on the feet up here (esp when it's right on top of concrete) and I don't want to put in any sexy in floor heaters (I'll save that for my next house).

Do you always use a primer with these too?

Thanks for the help!

[slosurfer]

Wow, that is a ton of slope for that small of a room! Is it actually sloping to one side or is the floor just really uneven with dips and rolls? The stuff I use says on the bag that it is only good from feathered up to 1".

[slosurfer]

The level quick doesn't call for a primer, but it may be a good idea if you are going with linoleum. Also, there may be other stuff better suited for linoleum, I don't deal with linoleum so I am not sure what those guys use.

[MTL_4runner]

I know it's bad, but the worst area is only a semi-circle about 2ft across right near the drain in the next room. Most of the room is probably only sloped about 1-1.25" from corner to corner. The reason why it sloped so bad is that there's a floor drain in the next room so they graduated a huge area towards it and this bathroom will be the closest room to the drain. Alot of these old houses have a shower right on the drain itself (not to code, that's for sure!), but I wanted to leav mine open just in case. So now I'm left trying to level it out so you don't feel the floor like you do now.

[MTL_4runner]

The level quick doesn't call for a primer, but it may be a good idea if you are going with linoleum. Also, there may be other stuff better suited for linoleum, I don't deal with linoleum so I am not sure what those guys use.


I was meaning more a primer for adhesion of the SLC to the cement slab.
If I went with tile, what product would you use to adhere the tile to the SLC?

[slosurfer]

I think I understand, the drain is in another adjacent room but the slope is carried into the room that you are working in. Is the doorway on the high side of this room or the lower side?



I was meaning more a primer for adhesion of the SLC to the cement slab.
If I went with tile, what product would you use to adhere the tile to the SLC?


That is what I meant also. Depending on the slab and the product used it may be smart to use a primer. I just read on my bag of level quick and it doesn't call for primer, but I know that they sell some. If it is a really slick floor, I think you should use a primer. If the floor is somewhat roughed up, you may not need it.

As for setting materials a premium blend thinset is good and then there are other choices of thinset depending on the size of tile and make of tile (i.e. saltillo, porcelain, slate, travertine, etc..)

[MTL_4runner]

I think I understand, the drain is in another adjacent room but the slope is carried into the room that you are working in. Is the doorway on the high side of this room or the lower side?


Yep, you got it exactly. The doorway is on the high side and it slopes down away from the doorway (slope goes down about 1-1.25" over the 12' dimension). There is some heavy dipping in the floor on the left side of the bath near the back wall due to the floor drain being in the next room (the more sharp dip is very localized in one area, otherwise the floor might slope 1" or so over the 5' dimension). Everything slopes toward the back left side of the bath due to that floor drain placement in the adjacent room.

[MTL_4runner]

That is what I meant also. Depending on the slab and the product used it may be smart to use a primer. I just read on my bag of level quick and it doesn't call for primer, but I know that they sell some. If it is a really slick floor, I think you should use a primer. If the floor is somewhat roughed up, you may not need it.


Ok, I'll definately do the primer because I'm not doing this more than once!

Should I be pouring this in say 1" layers as I fill or try and get the entire thing done all in one shot?
Most products say they only fill 1-2" at a time so I didn't know how thickly you've poured the Level Quick yourself.

[slosurfer]

I will see if I have any pics of this product in use and post them. Being that the door is on the highside makes it easy because you don't have to worry about carrying it through to another room which can be a pain. One tip: Where your drywall meets the floor, use some duct tape to cover that little joint. Because the level quick is mixed very loose (i.e very runny and thin) if you don't tape here your product can actually leak under the floor plate and into the adjacent room and for how much this stuff is a bag, you don't want to waste any.

You may want to consider, just using enough to take the real bad section out and partially leveling it. I guess what I am trying to say, instead of bringing it up 1.25" over the whole 12' length, bring it up 3/4" over the whole 12' section, as long as that is enough to get rid of the really bad section. 1/2" over 12' isn't too bad and you will save a ton on leveling material. I very rarely level floors, I generally am more concerned about makeing the floor flat by filling in the low spots and feathering out from high spots. Yours sounds like it does need some leveling though but I don't think it is necessary to completey level it.



Should I be pouring this in say 1" layers as I fill or try and get the entire thing done all in one shot?
Most products say they only fill 1-2" at a time so I didn't know how thickly you've poured the Level Quick yourself.


Is this product TEC EZlevel found in the flooring section of HD or the concrete section? Also, does it say that it can go down to a feathered edge?
Edit: I just looked it up. It looks like you have to add aggregate to it if you are going over 1.5" with the premium and it says that you must use primer. I doubt you will get this all in one shot, I would say mix a bag and pour it in the lowest spot, you basically keep doing this and working your way out the room. You can use a trowel to feather the edges at the end. It may take two coats with the second one being used more to fill in dips and level a little more. I have to do this often, basically just pouring it in the low spot and letting it find its own level, the next day I come back and get more technical with it to get the floor flat and have nice feathered edges, etc..

[slosurfer]

In case you are wondering why I am not working right now, I am working on a crazy bid and am going to the job later today. Didn't want you thinking that you were talking to a dead beat.

[MTL_4runner]

In case you are wondering why I am not working right now, I am working on a crazy bid and am going to the job later today. Didn't want you thinking that you were talking to a dead beat.


I've seen pics of your work before, no worries there! :thumbup:

[reggie 00]

In case you are wondering why I am not working right now, I am working on a crazy bid and am going to the job later today. Didn't want you thinking that you were talking to a dead beat.


Sure,

Get to work.

Jeess people posting during the day when they should be at work........

[slosurfer]

Reggie, if you are sitting at home, you better be getting that 4runner ready for Pismo!

[MTL_4runner]

Ok I lied, it's not the TEC EZ Level like I thought at Home Depot it's EZ Flow (all I could remember was the "EZ" part of the name and Google wasn't my friend when I tried to find which product it was that I saw). I double checked on the way home today to verify the name (it was also in the cement aisle....there were no leveling products in the tile aisle at all, just tons of different types of thinset).

Here's the sheet on the EZ Flow SLC stuff:
http://www.usehickson.com/resources/pdfbrochures/EZFlowSelfLevelingUnderlayment_en.pdf
http://www.usehickson.com/StoneMason/FlooringMaintenance/EZFlowSelfLevelingUnderlayment.shtml

[slosurfer]

Looks to be similar to what I use. I would definately primer it since it calls for it. I would imagine it would take doing it twice to get it level. The first time you will basically just be dumping it in and the second you could use a screed to make it all flat. I think I found some pics, I will download them and post later tonight. I have a dentist appointment right now and my welding class final after that.

[slosurfer]

Pics! This is over hardibacker board but it works the same as going over a concrete floor. I have different length metal screeds and flat trowels to move the material around and to get it to a feathered edge. These pics were taken because it is a vacation home and I was documenting why I needed to do the extra labor and materials.

This shows how much the floor drops in a couple feet. Also, this isn't even to level, this would bring it to something that was I able to set 18x18 tile on.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4695.jpg

closeup
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4694.jpg

The fix: notice the tape to keep it from running under the walls and from continueing into the other room. Eventually that other room is getting tile and will get level quik to match up in the hallway.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4705.jpg

different view and it shows where I was filling in dips in the floor by screeding off the high sections
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4703.jpg

the other side of the fireplace, dropped about 1" over 3'
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4704.jpg

[slosurfer]

Same house different room: hard to see but the screed is sitting on a big hump it drops about 1" towards the top of the pic and falls not quite as bad towards the lower portion of the pic
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4701.jpg

filled in the upper portion and then used a 6 ft. screed on the hump out to feathered edge at the bottom. It definately didn't level it out but it made it flat enough to virtually take the hump out and make it suitable to lay tile on.
http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/IMG_4708.jpg

[reggie 00]

Reggie, if you are sitting at home, you better be getting that 4runner ready for Pismo!

No such luck,
I was eating a burrito at my desk.

[fustercluck]

Man Chris, you're an ace for sure. I've seen pics of your work on another forum. Could you post some up here for all to admire. I'm specifically thinking of one master bath shot....it was stunningly well done.

[kmcc78240]

I am with Fuster on this on Chris, need some more pics. Also how did you snap all thise chalk lines down. I mean do you just find the center and measure or what. I have done two tile jobs and I laid the tile down found my cuts then laid the tile for real..

Sorry for the highjack

[slosurfer]

:coffee: Thanks guys. :king: I will start a thread with some pics for you to :drool: over. It is amazing the amount of money that some are able to spend on the tile alone. That way we can keep this on topic. :flipoff:

[MTL_4runner]

Chris, thanks for the leveling pics! I am definately going to use tape on the walls to hold in the slurry because that stuff is expensive. How much screeding do you need to do with the self leveing stuff? Will it more or less level itself or do you need to help it along somehow?

[slosurfer]

It will more or less level itself, especially in the really deep parts. Sometimes it is used to help it along. And when you are getting it nice and flat, not necessarily level, but are filling in the dips and making your transition to a feathered edge.YOu will see what I am talking about once you start using it. It sounds like you won't be needing to screed till the very end, especially for the room your are working in. Also a flat trowel can be used if you are working in small enough sections to reach over. A good straight piece of wood could also be used as a screed. I would suggest painting it with something just so that it doesn't suck the moisture out right away and the material will stick to in and make a mess (this stuff will dry real fast when something wicks the moisture away).

Oh and with the tape, you just take a utility knife and cut it at the top of the leveling compound to remove it. Don't worry about trying to remove the tape that ends up below the leveling compound. It won't hurt anything, in fact it helps give a little joint between the compound and the wall for some expansion.