switching over to synthetic oil

[Elton]

i been using 10w30 mobil 1 clean 5,000 for awhile as a 5qt jug is $10 bucks and a extra qt is a few dollars tomorrow im going to use mobil 1 5w-20 since its summer is coming i picked up a 5qt jug and a extra qt of mobil 1 clean 5,000 5w-30 total cost was $25 bucks heres what i got http://www.mobil1.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1.aspx now my question is how long does the oil last im useing a napa gold 1516 filter

[p nut]

How many miles do you have? Some people have reported developing oil leaks with a higher mileage engine. It is not recommended to switch to synthetic after 100k (so I've heard).

Anyway, depending on your driving condition, you can run synthetic for 6-10k miles.

[Elton]

i got around 150k no leaks or anything

[Running4life]

Elton,
I switched my 98 over at 104K. No leaks. I use Amsoil Series 2000. I will change the filter at about 8K and the oil at 15K or so. It's important to remember that it is your ride so do whatever you feel is best. I know it has been around the forums forever but even the new BMW's have a 15K oil change interval.

[Robinhood4x4]

There's plenty of people who have switched over on high mileage engines. It's not like it's going to hurt anything to try.

When I was running amsoil, I changed oil and filter at 10k intervals. I figure it's twice as long as the recommended interval from toyota but not nearly as long as the recommended interval from amsoil. A compromise. The only real way to tell when to change is to get the oil tested.

[Elton]

well i changed it seems to run a little smoother havint noticed any leaks yet lets see if i where to just change the filter i would lose about a qt of oil right ?

[BennyTRD]

Not near a quart!!! Wiait for your truck to cool down before taking the filter off. That will give most of the oil time to drain out of the filter and back into the pan. You should only need to top up a few 100ml.

[mkgarrison5]

i use mobile 1 syn and i change at 5-6k miles. i try not to go longer than that but its nice to know i could if i had too..get the mobile 1 syn at walmart 25$ for a 5qt jug. buy one more quart at around 4$ and thats it.. my truck uses 6 qts some say less but i go by my dip stick

[SD4runner]

I had a large debate on this on the TOF, but, I developed a major leak in the rear main seal, oil pan gasket, and passenger side valve cover after switching to synthetic.

I have a seasoned mechanic friend who believes that synthetic is all hype...he also says a lot of his friends who are mechanics think the same way. As long as you change your oil every 3-5k then dont worry! :)

[91_4x4runner]

It's mainly for extremely high and low temperatures. It maintains viscosity at higher temperature, but flows and doesn't solidify at very low temp.

I 'd say regular motor oil is fine for 3-5K intervals, sometimes beyond.

For those of you with forced induction (supercharger), I'd run the synthetic oil as it supposedly has better lubrication properties at higher temperature. I'm no guru when it comes to turbo's and SC's, but the theory is sound.

[mkgarrison5]

i have a buddy who works on VW's and he swears by synthetics. esp moble 1.. he tears his motors down quite often (street cars) and i wish he would have taken pics of one motor with 112k miles with dyno oil and one with 145k miles with synthetic.. the 145k mile one was cleaner, bearings and everything show far less wear as compared to the one with dyno oil with 30k less miles.. he runs them hard too..
since i dont run my truck hard and hardly off road unless i have to i can see myself going back to dyno just to save $$ but since i want my truck to last a looong time is it worth it??. i have been runnin syn for 40k miles now. i dont think i have any leaks yet..

can you run 10k miles on mobile 1 without issue?? or should it still be changed every 5k miles?? people swear up and down i can go 7-10k miles and then change

[JB_96LTD]

I bought my 96 4Runner at 135,000 miles and immediatly switched to Mobil 1 5w30 synthetic and M1 synthetic tranny fluid. I have not had any leaks or problems. I noticed that I got 2 miles/gallon better mileage also.

[91_4x4runner]

can you run 10k miles on mobile 1 without issue?? or should it still be changed every 5k miles?? people swear up and down i can go 7-10k miles and then change


Synthetic oils retain their lubrication properties longer than standard motor oil and may retain them for 10K miles, but does the cost of a new engine justify the slight savings in oil/filters?

(I know that contrast is probably an exaggeration, but better safe than sorry IMHO.)

[pearce951]

the reason for leaks on some of the higher mileage cars after switching to syn is that syn oil is thinner than regular oil so if you have a bad seal or something thats just about to start leaking then it will start leaking when you go to syn because its thinner I think that syn is the way to go iv been around a lot of race cars and every one i know uses syn so theres got to be something to it even if your not running hard all the time thats no reason to not use the best protection

[mkgarrison5]

if being thin is the culprit then go up to 10w-30 in syn.. it wont hurt

[GOLDS]

I have 272k on my taco I bought it at 230 and switched to QS 5W30 syn right away. I work at Mercedes Benz and get the oil very cheap. My truck does not have even the slightest leak. no problems, since the oil does not cost me much I still change it every 5k. Some of the new Benz's go 25k per oil change, but keep in mind that most euro cars hold much more oil, at least 8 liters in a MB.

I think that the hype about leaks is overrated.

[p nut]

Those of you using Mobil1 synthetic might find this interesting. I'll have to do some more research on this, but just thought I'd let everyone know what these guys found. I used to use Mobil1 on all of my past race cars. Not sure if I'll ever use it again.

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthread.php?t=253651&highlight=mobil+1

[mkgarrison5]

does anyone here have facts to back up the claim that MOBILE 1 SYN is now a class 3 syn instead of class 4?? to me it seems like most performance cars and truck come with MOBILE 1 SYN in them from the factory... i would like some info on this. bc if MOBILE 1 has changed their formula then i may either go with the cheapest "SYN class 3" i can find or just go back to Havoline Dino oil.

[mkgarrison5]

i called mobile office and they assured me that they DID NOT change their formulas down to a class 3 basestock and that its still class 4 which negates what P-NUT posted..

[p nut]

I would still like some hard facts backing up that claim. Who did you talk to at Mobil? I really do hope that the link I posted is false, but I won't sway one way or the other until something more concrete has been brought to light.

I don't think I'll use Mobil1 again, anyway. I never had problems, but I did burn about a quart of oil every 3,000 miles. Didn't burn a single drop when switching to RP or Amsoil.

[mkgarrison5]

i havent burned any oil. no burning on the dipstick staining the stick either.. i get great gas mileage considering the vehicle.. so till i see hard facts that support your posts ill continue using mobile 1 syn..BUT its deff something to look into.. i just talked to a rep from mobile 1 in virginia and he laughed and said no that its still class 4 basestock. not class 3 and he said the lawsuit was in the late 90's.. so that was a while ago

[MTL_4runner]

If you follow the same scenario through, you'd think all of Mobil's true synthetic competitors turn around and sue them for the same reason why the sued Castrol (if only to just expose them in the media). Surely someone would love to stick it to Mobil and make them look completely hypocritical in the public's eye for jumping on the bait and switch wagon if they were indeed using class 3 basestocks?! While this is clearly not definitive, the switch may have even been started by rumor or speculation alone. Just my $0.02 anyway.

There's some pretty good info on what happened on the Amsoil website:
http://www.1st-in-synthetics.com/is_your_synthetic_motor_oil_really_synthetic.htm

What they should have done is force any manufacturer who wanted to use the term "synthetic" in describing their product must disclose what the percentage and class of basestocks the product contained (or at least the percentage of PAO). That would have put an end to the old bait and switch these guys play.

Here's a few good threads on the subject:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=751041&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1&nt=4
http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=749606&page=0&fpart=all&vc=1&nt=15

*EDIT* After doing a little more research, it looks like what Mobil did was to blend the class III and class IV basestocks so they could still say that it contains PAOs but in reality the largest percentage was still class III basestocks. It's hard to find any info to confirm because the marketing machine of these huge companies I'm sure work hard to supress any info which might jeopardize sales, but the last BITOG thread seems quite convincing. Personally I would only use Redline, Royal Purple or Amsoil if I were to start paying for true synthetic. This should not mean that Mobil 1 is not a good choice, just that it may be overpriced for what you get.

Good advice from Tom NJ(Tom) over on BITOG:
"Be careful not to make too much of base oil chemistry. Performance is what matters and how the formulator gets there is their business. And don't under estimate the importance of the additives. I can formulate a great Group II based oil with extended OCIs, or a PAO/ester product that would seize your engine in minutes. That said, I also understand the feeling of betrayal from the purists, but life goes on and Group III ain't bad stuff."

[mkgarrison5]

so you are saying that mobile 1 really isnt a syn afterall?? also that being said am i getting more protection from mobile 1 syn than from regular dyno oil?? i was reading that castrol syntec rated better than mobile 1 in most categories...

[MTL_4runner]

so you are saying that mobile 1 really isnt a syn afterall?? also that being said am i getting more protection from mobile 1 syn than from regular dyno oil?? i was reading that castrol syntec rated better than mobile 1 in most categories...


First let me say that I'm no oil expert and I'm just going by what I read over on Bob_is_the_oil_guy (BITOG), but it seems that Mobil 1 is considered fully synthetic only not because it only uses PAO basestock. The term Synthetic has basically become watered down to the point you can really use it to define categories like you use to.

Is Mobil 1 better than dyno oil? I'd have to say yes, but that is just IMHO. If you really want a true synthetic switch to Royal Purple or Amsoil.

The trouble with oils is that they are just full of marketing hype and sorting through it all is difficult and often subject to change as they change the formulation of the product itself. I really would worry too much about running base III or base IV oils, they both should work very well for what they are intended to do.

Just like any other product today, spending alot on an oil now doesn't always parallel quality or provide value.

[p nut]

i havent burned any oil. no burning on the dipstick staining the stick either.. i get great gas mileage considering the vehicle.. so till i see hard facts that support your posts ill continue using mobile 1 syn..BUT its deff something to look into..


I didn't notice any oil loss when I kept it under 4-5k rpm's. It's when I was on the track that I saw a drastic amount of burn-off. Constant high RPM's is what did it, I think. But, that was only with M1. RP, Amsoil, etc. didn't burn as easily. I did notice some, but it was a very small amount. The reason why you haven't seen any oil loss is because you probably don't take it over 4k too much. My cars were all tight as a ship, too. Other owners of the same cars have also noted the same problem.



The trouble with oils is that they are just full of marketing hype and sorting through it all is difficult and often subject to change as they change the formulation of the product itself. I really would worry too much about running base III or base IV oils, they both should work very well for what they are intended to do.

Just like any other product today, spending alot on an oil now doesn't always parallel quality or provide value.


True. I was going to switch to synthetic on my 4Runner, but the regular dyno oil will do just as well as any other synthetic, IMO. Now, when I get my next track car, I will be using synthetic due to the higher viscosity level.

This sucks that Mobil 1 really is a watered down version of a full-syntheic oil. And it sucks more that I was paying $5/quart for that stuff.

[mkgarrison5]

yeah that does suck! if i use a "syn" from now on looks like ill go with castrol syntec.... but it looks like valvoline or havoline for me.

[mkgarrison5]

after reading all that stuff on BITOG, they still say Mobile 1 syn has poor POA's (hope i got that right) compared to other similar synthetics and even conventenal oils, being Penzoil Platinum, castrol gtx dino and syn, valvoline high mileage dino... with 90k miles on my truck would it be in the best interest to switch from mobile 1 syn to valvolin high mileage dino??

[MTL_4runner]

after reading all that stuff on BITOG, they still say Mobile 1 syn has poor POA's (hope i got that right) compared to other similar synthetics and even conventenal oils, being Penzoil Platinum, castrol gtx dino and syn, valvoline high mileage dino... with 90k miles on my truck would it be in the best interest to switch from mobile 1 syn to valvolin high mileage dino??


I wouldn't read too much into it....I'd just go for what gives you the best value. So if those are all comparable according to BITOG, then go to the store and price out which one has the cheapest quart price and buy that for your next oil change. Switching back and forth between oils should not cause you any undue headaches.

....also it's PAO = poly-alpha-olefin ;)

[mkgarrison5]

ill stick with "syn" but ill find the cheapest ones that is not havoline synthetic, from what i read it ranked poor and along the lines with good dino oil..

[p nut]

If you are going to stick with a synthetic, might as well go for a true synthetic like Royal Purple, Redline or Amsoil. If not, I can't justify the 200-300% cost over a good dino oil. This is why I stick to Valvoline and change it every 3500-4000 miles. If I were to switch to a synthetic, one benefit would be longer oil change intervals. But it doesn't take long at all, so again, another point for dino.

[mkgarrison5]

well since i drive butt loads of miles a year if i can get by with 5k miles oil change intervals i will.. now i use mobile 1 syn at every 5k miles. i am tired of paying that price for an oil change anyway.. you can find synthetic oils cheaper than mobile 1. mobil 1 is the more expensive one. so if i can save 5$ on an oil change and still have "synthetic" ill do it.. worse comes to worse i would go with the mobile 1 clean 5000k clean oil (dino) or valv. high mileage dino

[p nut]

As Tatsuru Ichishima (president of Spoon Sports) once said, oil is not wine--don't spend a lot of money on it. I think what he was trying to say is what MTL Runner was saying--There is too much marketing hype (high mileage, 5000 clean, blah blah), and we shouldn't be buying into it. Most important thing is regular oil changes and constant monitoring for leaks, oil level, etc.

And if you're really worried about how well your oil is protecting your engine, send a sample of the oil into Blackstone Labs. They do great work in anaylsing your oil. I think it only cost like $20 or so.

http://www.blackstone-labs.com/standard_analysis.html

[mkgarrison5]

what kind of oil do you use?

[tulsa_sr5]

FWIW I'm very happy with amsoil and will likely keep using it. Honestly though, how many oil related engine failures have any of us heard about with toyota truck motors? Penzoil every 5k is probably sufficient for 500k miles at least, not sure it's worth worrying about too much. It's not like we have engines known for needing babied.

[p nut]

what kind of oil do you use?


Like I said, I use Valvoline, because that's what the Toyota dealerships use around here. But, if for some reason Valvoline's prices started going up, I wouldn't have any problems switching to Castrol, Pennzoil, Quaker State, or any other major brand oil in the sub $2/quart category. Personally, I don't see the reason to use synthetics in our trucks. Some people use it, and that's cool, but I'm willing to bet that my engine will last just as long as any other engine with the more expensive oils.

And I agree with tulsa SR5.

[mkgarrison5]

the only real difference i saw in using syn and dino is on cold start ups. you could here a dry ticking when you first crank it with dino and when i switched to mobile 1 it quit.. plus i drive a lot of miles so i need an oil that can go 5k miles with little to no breakdown but the #'s show that mobile 1 has a lot of mess in it around 4k miles compared to even other dino brands like valvoline HM

[MTL_4runner]

I found a bit more good info on synthetic oil you guys might enjoy reading:

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html

http://www.q45.org/oil.html

[MTL_4runner]

I tried to get the Valvoline Durablend, but Walmart up here didn't carry it and when I found it in auto part stores they wanted almost $6 per liter for it! I said forget that and just bought (2) 5L jugs of the Valvoline Synpower full synthetic (I got 10W30 for the 4runner and 5W30 for the Civic and the 5L jugs are $26 CDN each) at Wallyworld. The 5L jugs are very convienent for me because the 4runner takes 6L and the Civic takes 4L each oil change so 2 jugs does both my cars with no leftovers. I did notice that as soon as I fired up the engines, the idle was very smooth and almost no valve noise.....we'll see if that lasts. I'm pretty pleased so far and with each jug of oil you get a free set of mechanics gloves (one per address so send them to all your family members) so the deal was even sweeter. I'll let you guys know how I make out as time goes on and I'll save the regular stuff I had leftover for snowblower and lawnmower oil changes.

[mkgarrison5]

thats awesome mtl!! i would take that deal too.. i am going to walmart in the next few days and see what they carry. whether its valvoline maxlife, durablend or full syn, ill buy the cheapest one and go with it.. castrol gtx was puting up good #'s as well... i had one guy at bitog to cuss me out bc i mentioned that you get just as good if not better protection in the 5k mile range with valvoline durablend and maxlife as with mobil 1 full syn...though mobile 1 has shown to be great in yotas, the #'s still werent worth the price.. besides as long as you dont have the sludge machines you are fine with dino for 5k mile intervals. you got a great deal mtl

[mkgarrison5]

mtl, i know yotas call for 5w30 and or 10w30, which one would be best for which situation? like winter\ summer and etc?? i have always used the 5w30 year round here in NC. the summers are hot and humind and the winters arent that bad avg 25-45 degrees for lows and highs..

[MTL_4runner]

Yeah, the Valvoline full Synthetic was even cheaper per liter than the Wallyworld's Supertech brand. The initial price fools you because they price it lower, but then give you less (Supertech = 4.4L, Synpower = 5L) so when you do the math the Valvoline was the best value on full synthetic I could find, period. I'm just going to assume everything uses type III basestock when I see "full synthetic" and then I'll just look for the best price.....too much work to stay on top of it otherwise I did also see the Esso XD-3 full synth 0W40 stuff, but the free mechanic gloves deal kept me from trying it.

[MTL_4runner]

mtl, i know yotas call for 5w30 and or 10w30, which one would be best for which situation? like winter\ summer and etc?? i have always used the 5w30 year round here in NC. the summers are hot and humind and the winters arent that bad avg 25-45 degrees for lows and highs..


I've always used 10W30 in summer and 5W30 in winter on the 4runner, but it gets VERY cold up here in winter. If you're almost never going below freezing, then I'd just go for the 10W30 valvoline full synthetic and run it year round. If you're going to go with the maxlife or Durablend, then you should probably change viscosity depending on the time of year as I mentioned above.

[mkgarrison5]

you think change viscosities per season really makes that much of a difference?? here in the winter (dec-early march) it usually goes below 32 degrees F at night. rarely do we have days that stay below freezing. its usually just at night so it makes for a cold start. (this is the only difference with syns and dino is cold start ups) but again i only use 5w30, and in the summers like now its pretty hot. almost always above 80 degrees with a lot of days in the 90's.. i drive a lot of highway miles so that motor gets used ALOT... thanks mtl

[MTL_4runner]

Do you have to change viscosities, no, but if it were my vehicle I would. The reason why I said don't bother with the full synthetic is that it flows alot better in cold weather (even 10W30) so your engine builds oil pressure in winter that much quicker every time you start the engine. Then in summer you want the oil thicker at startup when the weather is hot and will actually lower your oil pressure while running if you use 5W30 instead of 10W30 like you should in hot weather (look in the owner's manual for the temp ranges on the oils). Will it make a big difference changing each season? Hard to say but it's not that big of a deal if you do at least 2 oil changes per year.

[mkgarrison5]

lol i change my oil every month and a half at 5k miles. no kiddin maybe every 2 months. i drive 28-39k miles a year roughly..hopefully that will decrease this year since i am moving closer to my job.. anyway, ill check at walmart and see what they have and prices and ill decided whether stick with syns or the durablend. and if i do go with blends or dino ill do what you advised and go with 10w30 in the summer and 5w30 in the winter..... switching weights doesnt factor in gunking does it?? just curious.i know these 3.4's arent sludge monsters but still just askin

thanks mtl

[MTL_4runner]

switching weights doesnt factor in gunking does it?? just curious.i know these 3.4's arent sludge monsters but still just askin

Nope. The synthetic is highly resitant to sludging and the Durabland has alot of detergents to prevent it as well.

[mkgarrison5]

i was talking about just basic dino oil and yeah you are right about the blends and syns they are highly resistant to sludging.. sorry for the miscommunication

[MTL_4runner]

i was talking about just basic dino oil and yeah you are right about the blends and syns they are highly resistant to sludging.. sorry for the miscommunication



Same answer, no, not really. :laugh: