Rear Suspension Upgrade

[BruceTS]

During my the Locos Mocos trip, I tore out one of the spring pockets from the frame. Had plans in the works to modify them, this just pushed up my schedule. The past few weeks I've been measuring and making calculations on spring and shock rates. I was really pushing to run the 14" short bodied Bilsteins, but ended up with the 12", even then the upper links will have to be replaced, since they won't articulate enough. The design I finally chose to build is a bolt-in set-up, to make it easier to modify if needed in the future.

Here are a few picture of the half completed assembly, today I drilled and sleeved the frame for the mounting bolts.

the first picture shows it at ride height
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05968.jpg

This shows how I will compensate for the spring dropping out of the pocket. It's a dual spring capture, I came up with and originally had planned to do to Lance's 4th Gen. At ride height it's compressed allowing normal suspension travel. I still need to weld in the shock mounts, additional gussets and do some trimming of excessive material. This mock-up was mainly to make sure my math was correct.
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05963.jpg
The top mount is only resting against the upper plate, I have to weld in the inner retaining sleeve and bolt up the bumpstop, which will also keep the spring assemblies in place during full droop.

As for additional travel, I gained almost 5", because of this the rear sway bar had to be removed, since it won't handle the excessive twisting.

[BruceTS]

Finished the left side spring pocket assembly
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05971.jpg

Here's with the inner spring and ACOS system installed, this will allow for fine tunning the ride height later.....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05976.jpg

[AxleIke]

Mount looks sweet. How does that system work? Does it just push the coil up and down to adjust ride height?

[ecchamberlin]

Bruce looks great. I am sure you have thought of this but with that much travel will the drive shaft be long enough or could you risk having it come apart?

[BruceTS]

The link design droops on an arch, so there is no issue with the driveshaft.

ACOS system has a separate lock ring that can be adjusted for ride height.

[ecchamberlin]

makes sense to me now. It is not like a leaf set up. The lowers will keep it on a nearly constant radius.

[xonetruthcrewx]

You are a mad man for sure. Thats awesome. Cant wait to see the finished product. Right on.

[BruceTS]

Here's the lower shock mount, it's built to take the beating against rocks and protect the shock. I was in a rush to assemble it and painted while it was still hot, needless to say the bedliner spray went on kinda funky......

http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05983.jpg

Had to unhook the top link to droop the axle low enough to get the coils in, but still needed to use a spring compressor.

http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05985.jpg

Took a ruler to show the distance to the bumpstop.......

http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05986.jpg

Now for the other side...........

[locked up]

Looks great, Since I went on the same trip, I temp. fixed mine by installing OME shocks and thus removed my Rancho 9000 outboard frame mounted shocks, I riped off the drivers side mount, by taking a chunk out of the frame... Your solution seems pretty cool... So it looks like you made a new upper spring bucket farther up then stock and used an extra spring inside of your existing spring and went to a 12" travel Bilstein... What main coils did you use, and what is the ACCOS spring, is that some kind of after market bump stop? Finally did you have to make the bucket that sits inside of top of your existing coil spring? and did it increase your ride height?
Thanks, Pete

[Marc P]

Looks real good Bruce. If at some point I decide to keep a link setup in the rear I would set it up like that.

You still have the stock links??

[Lee]

beautifully done bruce. please continue to post info and pics as you make progress and test it out on the trail. :thumbup:

[BruceTS]

ACOS is designed for coil sprung jeeps, makes it easy to adjust ride height. The actual spring is an Ebach 150# 8", the top hat between the 2 springs I fabricated. When the inner spring compresses, the inner bumpstop touches the bottom of the hat assy. Without the Bilstein shock attached, ride height is at the same height, but shock attached it lifted 1/2", which is ok since I was about a 1/2" low in the back. The outer spring is an OME 891, which I've been running and like. I will eventually build another bumpstop which will attach at the axle end, that or run air bumps.

As for the rear links, I have a Spider Trax "Bathke" lowers. The stock uppers, they need to be replaced before I fully articulate the suspension. I'll make them up in a few weeks.

[locked up]

Awesome Bruce, One last question... Are your lower Links longer than stock, and if you extend either your uppers or lowers, doesn't that push the axle back toward the rear fender and like someone mentioned earlier, might have to extend the driveshaft... or add a spacer at the end of the pinion flange... And like you mentioned eariler and I agree, the driveshaft swings in the same arc as the lower link movement allows... I have thought long and hard about the application (for my 02')of trying to come up with a plan to achieve greater articulation in the rear besides using a rear leaf spring set up but you could have a winner here!

[mastacox]

That's looking very cool!

I'm curious, are you going to retain the panhard bar, or are you going to end up trying a triangulated 4-link up top? It seems that with "extreme" articulation that panhard will just mess things up...

For project Baja-Runner, I haven't decided whether to go 4-link or 3-link for the rear, but one thing's for sure the panhard's going to have to go.

[BruceTS]

The lower links are of stock length, you can't extend them without having problems with the top link brackets hitting the crossbar on the frame.

For now the panhard bar stays, in the future, the plan is to relocate the fuel tank and go to a double triangluated 4-link. The reason, it's safer on the street, if one link fails the suspension won't be as affected. The ultimate goal is to get everything above the frame rails, so nothing can get hung up on the rocks. If the rear suspension performs well, I may just suspend any further major modifications and proceed with my new project vehicle for the extreme stuff and keep the 4Runner for the high speed and expedition ventures.

With the rubber in the joints, the panhard will allow some distortion, but the stock upper links can't twist as far, so they need to be changed. At one point I thought of removing the panhard and installing a cross linked designed upper system, but the stock mounts are too weak to handle the additional loading. With the 5-link you can't change out all the joints to heims or you will have some serious binding. That's why it'll probably be a few weeks before I make my new links. I'm tossing around the idea of using johnny joints, but if they won't fit between the stock mounts, then I just might redo the whole upper link system.

[Jerm]

wow looks good, I cant wait to see this done. I hope I can do cool stuff like this someday.

[Intrepidyota]

http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05983.jpg

I didn't see it already mentioned so...I know you wanted a longer shock, but is creating a rock anchor hanging that low under the axle really a good idea? :headscratch:

[BruceTS]

It would be a rock anchor, if I didn't run a wheel...... actually the lower links drag against the rocks more. I do expect to scrape it against those occasional surfaces, but it won't hang it up.

BTW the lower shock pivot point is 1" higher than the stock location....

[Cheese]

BTW the lower shock piviot point is 1" higher than the stock location....


What? Not sure I follow that.

[BruceTS]

The shaft where the stock shock used to attach to is located 1" below the new pivot location. The difference is I extended it out a bit further so there is clearance for the shock body at full compression. I didn't bother to cut the shaft off, so I wrapped the bracket under it. If I had cut the shaft off I could have made it smaller.

ok I photochopped a picture together for comparison
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05987.jpg

[Cheese]

Got it.

I would have understood, "The new mounting bolt is actually an inch HIGHER than stock."

I voted for you this month, that pic looks familiar.

Good work.

[BruceTS]

finished the right side pocket today
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05989.jpg

showing the spring pocket assembly set-up......
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05992.jpg

the lower shock mount
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC05993.jpg

Tomorrow the fun begins..... laying underneath my rig cutting out the old spring pocket, then grinding it all clean. No fun having all them hot metal shaving dropping on ya, so I'll have to be covered up, a pain considering were in a heat wave.......

[MTL_4runner]

No fun having all them hot metal shaving dropping on ya, so I'll have to be covered up, a pain considering were in a heat wave.......


Awww c'mon Bruce, be a man and just rub some dirt on it. :laugh: J/K
I almost got some hot solder in my eyes today so you can't be too careful on that stuff.

I like the double sliding spring pocket design. Are you going to put some rubber mat at the top of the perch to prevent the spring from going metal on metal every time the spring pocket comes out of the perch and then re-engages?

[BruceTS]

If you look at the earlier pictures posted, you'll see a urethane bumpstop to prevent metal to metal contact.

Finally got the other sided finished......well almost, I still need to make the brackets to retain the shock reservoirs, add the limit straps and I had to cut off part of the exhaust to fit the right side, so now I'll have to re-route it.

no pictures, too tired.............

[freejake3]

I still think the shock mount is getting hung up. It may be higher than stock but being inboard more makes it more of an anchor IMHO. Unless I'm missing something. I guess trail time will tell. Nice fab work by the way.

[BruceTS]

The shock is not mounted more inboard, it is mounted at the same angle as the stock. All I did was add a double shear mount to the factory mount. If you compare the picture above, there is very little difference. Unless my tire falls off a vertical edge, there is no way it will get hung up, rocks are usually rounded off, so factor in the tire contact point then project an angle off that, then you may understand. Even if it comes in contact, it will simply slide off.......

The last thing I'm worried about getting hung up would be that mount, there are plenty other things under a 3rd gen that will get you stuck. Want to talk about rock anchor, take a peek at the front mounts on the lower links.......

The whole reason behind going this route was to keep it handling as close to, if not better on the highway than the way it was. I could have mounted them higher and further out on the axle, but that puts more angle on the shocks, which reduces their effectivness. I like the ride of the OME 891 springs, that and the fact they don't sag out over time like most aftermarket ones.

I've been up trails with my rig that no other IFS 3rd gen 4Runner has yet to attempt. Ask MarcP about the trail Sledge Hammer, his response was "What Trail? all I see is rocks, but I know they went that way, because I see the tire marks"

This is Sledge Hammer, the guy standing by the 1st gen belonging to UGET IT on Pirate4x4, is Mike from Shaffer's Offroad, his Diablo buggy is further up the canyon, being tested out by a friend as we wait for Kevin's 4Runner to cool down after having an overheating issue.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/mambots/content/smoothgallery/cache/800x600-sledgehammer.jpg

[Lee]

bruce, how have you found your tjm to be? personally i am at my wits end with it, and cannot wait to throw it in the garbage can and make a new custom one.

it is tinfoil on rocks.

[MTL_4runner]

bruce, how have you found your tjm to be? personally i am at my wits end with it, and cannot wait to throw it in the garbage can and make a new custom one.

it is tinfoil on rocks.


Lee, Really?!
I thought those things were supoposed to be the cat's meow for offroad bumpers.

[Lee]

they are if you dont actually use them :laugh:

at least thats what i have found. mine folds like a frenchman in combat.

its a good alternative to stock if you have 500 bucks and no fab skills i guess, but im on my 2nd one (i can tell the story of the 1st and why it was replaced free in a separate thread if anyone cares) and both are garbage on rocks.

proof: i came down softly on a rock i was climbing, everyone else did more or less the same and no one thought i had hit it particularly hard to warrant this.... anyway heres the damage, you can see it curled/folded like a blanket:

http://kidmoe.com/4runner/629random/1.jpg

http://kidmoe.com/4runner/629random/1a.jpg

you can see the entire bracket bent at the bottom as well which is no biggie, you can bend it back easily.

[MTL_4runner]

mine folds like a frenchman in combat.

:rofl:

Hit it with a torch, maybe it's more like memory foam?! :spit:

[BruceTS]

The TJM-17 isn't as strong as the TJM-15, simply because there is additional support with the hoops, even then the bumper will bend with hard hits. If you build the bumper strong enough not to give on impacts, then your risking damage to your frame. For me the bumper has held up just fine, but the frame mounts have a bit to be desired, I have another topic about my front bumper and this, should be in that thread.

[Cheese]

I am amazed by this.

I have seen Bruce's get used pretty hard as well as two others without issue.

Do you drive by braile?

[Lee]

ive been wheeling for quite some time and i assure you it is not entirely driver error! :laugh:

i and those with me are constantly surprised at what a hunk of junk it is.

anyway sorry to take over your thread bruce, ill stop now. im going custom soon, hopefully this winter if i can trick my buddy into giving me a hand with it :laugh:

[BruceTS]

Ok I took it out to our jobsite and did some flex testing
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06005.jpg
not quite compressed to the bumpstops
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06011.jpg
almost rubbing against the body, but I still have another 2 1/2 inches to the bumpstop and almost 4" before the shock is fully compressed.
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06012.jpg
Because of this, I'll be making a few changes. I can relocate the lower shock mount up another 2" easily and then I'll extend the bumpstop down an inch. The upper links looked just fine, so they don't need to be replaced yet. Because of the additional droop I'll get when the shock mount is relocated, I'll need to make some adjustments to the e-brake cable so it won't bind

[ecchamberlin]

Looks cool. Kinda hard to see the pas side droop from the pic though. I am sure it is a meteric crap ton of full droop.

So are you back on a job site now?

[BruceTS]

Here's a better side view
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06026.jpg
Flexed out at full droop on the drivers side, but not quite compressed on the passenger side. You can also see where the reservoir mounted.
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06025.jpg
showing the coil set-up at full droop, which is 14" now....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06022.jpg
even after cutting the lower mount off and relocating it up 2" there's still travel left...
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06021.jpg
Ran into a problem, the shock now hits the spring pocket when articulated and compressed, I did some clearancing and will recheck tomorrow. If I can't reslove this issue, then the lower mounts will be cut off and new ones made up to inbound them a bit. All this because I decided to raise the mounts........
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06020.jpg
either way I'll need to lower the bumpstops about 1", since the added flex the tire comes in contact with the body now. When I get this all completed I should end up with 13" of total vertical travel.

Another issue with the added droop is the tire hit the rear bumper, so that needs to be clearanced as well.

Eric I'll be back to work in approx 2 weeks, the company got a 3 million yard job not to far from my place. That'll keep me busy through the winter......

[neliconcept]

i wonder how this kid got this much flex with just ome 890s

http://i145.photobucket.com/albums/r233/harpen1522/741607971111_0_BG.jpg

[Lee]

long shocks and no swaybar?

i have 891's and my flex is good but not that good.

i am putting my n86's in soon too... i have stock length bils now that i hate

[slosurfer]

His shocks and swaybar are disconnected and his coil fell out. YOu can see his bumpstop on the ground behind the tire.

[MTL_4runner]

His shocks and swaybar are disconnected and his coil fell out. YOu can see his bumpstop on the ground behind the tire.


:rofl:

Good eyes Chris!

[BruceTS]

lol, had a shock break a top mount and it flexed real well, thank goodness I had my swaybar still attached.......

[BruceTS]

Went out and did a dry run to see if I need to make some more changes......

Have a bit of rubbing against the inner fender well, time to do some more clearancing
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06027.jpg
not quite drooped out all the way
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06029.jpg
just clears the bumper now, but it hit against the body panel, hammer time.....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06030.jpg
flexing it out, kinda of nice not to have a wheel lift off the ground now.....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06031.jpg
new bumpstops doing their job, still have about 2" before the shock is fully compressed, note the new lower shock mounts.....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06032.jpg
shows the mods I did to attach the bumpstops, I like having 2 bolts holding them big suckers in place.....
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06039.jpg

[Casey Likes Metal]

Impressive, Bruce!

I wish I had more to say, but I don't. Nice work.

[Lee]

ugh i hate how small our frames are :laugh:

nice job bruce :thumbup:

so do you think youre done now? also, how much body lift do you have?

[ecchamberlin]

Pretty sure he has a 1.5" BL.

[BruceTS]

ugh i hate how small our frames are

so do you think youre done now? also, how much body lift do you have?


Yea them frames are quite small, not really designed for hardcore offroading. Future changes I would like to accomplish are fabricating a new fuel tank, relocating it to where the spare tire used to be. Lance has my cardboard mock-up, but I have a few projects on my house I need to do first. Once relocated, I can get rid of the 5-link suspension and go with a double triangulated 4-link, this will eliminate most of the rear steer I'm getting during articulation. Then I can flat belly my rig, at which point most of the major mods will be completed. The gap between the body and frame will be filled in once I make a gusset to strengthen the rear frame section, needed for the added weight of the fuel tank and possible tire carrier. All of which might go on hold if I start my buggy project.

The mods I've done wouldn't have been possible unless you run 1 1/2" body lift.

Got my BFH yesterday and clearanced the wheel wells due to the rubbing issues at full stuff. I need to figure out a guard for the fuel filler tube, since the tire rubs hard against the plastic cover now.

[BruceTS]

Just finished installing new heim joints in the lower control arms, with the 1/2" spacer supplied, the fit between the factory brackets was near perfect(even though mine are a bit tweaked). It does require drilling out the bolt hole to 3/4", but with a step drill it was made simple.
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06052.jpg

These are made by Evolution Machining & Fabrication Inc. I'll be testing them out to see how long they last compared to the one's I used to have in there. The nice thing about them is they are rebuildable and have a zerk fitting so you can grease them.

The new joint in comparison to my old one, them things are quite beefy!
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06053.jpg

If you want to know more about them, here's a good article on the joints http://www.pirate4x4.com/tech/billavista/PR-Joints/index.html

[xonetruthcrewx]

Those are indeed quite beefy. I like it.

[BruceTS]

I found a spot at work where I was able to lift a rear wheel off the ground and measured the articulated travel. the drooped side from the flare lip to the outside edge or the tire measured 23" and on the stuffed side the tire was 3 1/2" above the flare lip, so that gives me a total of 26 1/2"! As for rubbing there was quite a bit, but that was to be expected. I had to modify my fuel tank skid plate adding a few plates for the driveshaft to rub against. I still need to fabricate a plate to replace the plastic cover over the fuel filler tube.

[DEATHRUNNER]

Looks awesome.

That will be cool when you move the tank. How hard is it to make a custom tank? I've always wanted to do that on my 4runner.

[97kurt]

Not sure how I missed this thread but dang man, that is impressive.

http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/rear/DSC06052.jpg

I did something similar to this, but instead of using a 3/4 bolt right through the heim I got a set of 9/16 high misalignment adapters for the heims. That way I only had to bore the hole out a hair to 9/16" (from 14mm) and the width of the adapters on a 7/8 heim it was a near perfect fit for the stock mounts.

[slosurfer]

I can tell you that it works pretty darn good too!

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/Pismo%204RJ07/The%20event%20Oct%2007/IMG_6578.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/Pismo%204RJ07/The%20event%20Oct%2007/IMG_6594.jpg

http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e113/slosurfer27/Pismo%204RJ07/The%20event%20Oct%2007/IMG_6593.jpg

[BruceTS]

Chris I guess I should add, those pictures you posted I'm running 40psi in the tires.....

[ecchamberlin]

So I know this is not a thread really about the lower links but I have questions about them.

What are all the options out there for the lower links? I am at the point that they will need to be upgraded soon. Sonoran Steel's look really nice but I want to know all my options.

My rear end will never see a significant upgrade so I really don't think I need them to be adjustable. Just much stronger. I am also happy with the articulation that I currently get out of it so that is not me highes concern although if it reliably improved that would be a bonus.

[BruceTS]

If I had to make a new set of lower links, I'd have Kartek cut some cromoly tubing and thread it, then use your choice of end joints. The Spidertrax links are well made and still have a factory bushing at one end. The evolution joints are pricy but IMHO they are worth the cost, considering I won't be needing to replace them as often.

[ecchamberlin]

Just went to the site for the first time. Looks like if you wanted the links they would be a special order. Yes?

[BruceTS]

yes, you'll have to call them and ask for the Bathke 3rd gen 4runner links.....

[ecchamberlin]

Thanks Bruce any idea of price?

[97kurt]

I'd guess no less than $300. The last set I made for a friend of mine ran about $160 in parts and that was with DOM and only one heim per link. If Kartek needs an eye to eye measurement for the stock links let me know.

Bruce, do you have the part numbers for those rear shocks?

[BruceTS]

Bilstein 7100 Series BLS-AK7112SB-04 12" Travel Short Body Shock - Remote Reservoir

[neliconcept]

I forgot to ask or i didnt catch it, Bruce, any on road difference as far as feel and weight distro/sway around curves?

[BruceTS]

OK before I did this upgrade I was running OME N86 shocks and 891 springs, with the custom lower links and was a stop gap until I went to a double triangulated 4-link....
The handling was much better than stock, but having the swaybar attached and the Total Chaos long travel kit running no front swaybar it had a bit of oversteer and during hard cornering the inside rear wheel would lose traction.

Now I no longer run a rear swaybar and the handling has improved greatly, no oversteer and no traction loss during hard cornering. It does sway more, but very controllable. I recently had to swerve to avoid a car in front of me. I turned hard right into another lane on the freeway, the body rolled to the left, but when I turned the steering back, it rolled right and settled down in the next lane with complete control. Accelerating out of a corner is so much fun now....hehe

I used to slow down a bit going over speed bumps, since the rear used to have a tendency to bounce a bit, now it's like those bumps aren't even there, I can hit them at any speed and all I feel is a slight thump.

Out on the sand dunes at Pismo I have no complaints with the way it handled, except the front suspension was a bit soft for jumping :D now only if I can get a set of bypass shocks for free :hillbill:

[jrock]

I know this is an old thread/write up, but im desperate to get more info on this. I recently LT my 98 t4r front(engage) and after one trip to ocotillo I need the a rear like bruceTS or chaplain's.

Is Bruce still around? I pmd but no response...anyone else do their rear like this?

I heard he wanted to go double tri-4link...w/F150 gas tank in back? thread on that?

I have reservations about the body lift tho, Ill only be running 285/75/16.

maybe chaplains rear is the way to go for me then huh?

http://ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=88480&highlight=chaplain+rear+suspension

[Good Times]

Bruce is around but not often. He's been very swamped with family stuff that he rarely jumps online in general.

There's a thread he did of the ford tank but that's all he's done recently.
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4861.0

Not sure if he's going to do anything else on the rear at this point.

I've done something different on my rear by doing a tri-4link w/ a custom tank in the spare wheel area. This was for a 4th gen but you get the idea. :)
http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=2318.150

If you want to skip all of the chatter you can check it here where it's all pix: http://www.chaosedition.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=section&layout=blog&id=11&Itemid=65"]Read (http://"[url) me![/url]

Something to note, I ended up going with different lower link tubings because the one posted was not strong enough to muster what I wanted to do. Live and learn I guess :)