Powder Coating Test

[callmej75]

Ok it seems as though a lot of people aren't that educated on the durability of powder coating. Since the site has grown, I will post this up for the newbies as well as the veterans here. I see a lot of quotes stating that it just isn't worth the money to get sliders powder coated. Well I am about to give you a live test and I will report back periodically to give you say to day testing of the corrosion results of my testing. I hope this will clear up quite a bit of issues with powder coating and people asking, "Is it really worth the money?" I am always preaching proper practices of pretreating the metal will ensure that you will have a lasting finish. Well I'll quit rambling and go to the test. Lets take one piece of....I am guessing 4" x 7" piece of 20GA sheet metal.

This is blasted with aluminum oxide

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3881.jpg

This is pretreated with my iron phosphate solution properly mixed and heated

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3885.jpg

Heres the finished product with silver vein powder coating

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3888.jpg

Here is the actual test of durability

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/th_f6529fc9.jpg (http://s10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/?action=view&current=f6529fc9.flv)

The underside

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3894.jpg

The top side

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3895.jpg

The true test of immersion in water

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3896.jpg

http://i10.photobucket.com/albums/a128/callmej75/Powder%20Coating/IMG_3897.jpg


I will monitor this and report my findings every day on a 24 hour period for 1 month. Then I will report testing every month here until a full year is up. I will reveal corrosion test results daily as well.

Testing commenced on 07/17/2007 @ 9:42PM

[callmej75]

Correction:
Without oxygen it will not start the corrosion process. So I will dip it in salt water every day and hang it up to dry.

[MTL_4runner]

Good stuff Jeremy, this should put any speculation of durability to bed quickly.

[callmej75]

I agree...at least on this forum. I did it on the other forum but of course I got immature responses and hardheaded punks replying. So I had the mod delete the thread over there because I don't want to waste my breath there anymore.

[Henrythewound]

I must be a hardheaded punk although I thought I had a valid point. I won't repeat it here to avoid "ruining" your post.

[callmej75]

No lets bring it up here because there is a much more mature and understanding audience here than on the other forum. You made a valid point, but here is mine. Choose to listen or not, but from people saying negative things about powder coating ruins my business.

Just a show of hands, how many people here know the true benefits of powder coating? Lets start there...

Ok...powder coating sliders. Powder coating is a much more harder penetratable surface than wet paint. Unless you go to epoxies, wet paint will be wet paint. I have worked with wet paing and powder coating for numerous years. I switched from wet paint to powder coating because I simply can put a guarantee on this product. Anyways, here is my point on powder coating sliders. Once a scratch has broken the surface of wet paint, whether it be bare metal or not, it will bubble up and rust underneath it because the surface of wet paint is the protective coating. Powder coating on the other hand, can be scratched and not rust til you have brought it all the way down to bare metal. Yes rocks will penetrate it, but there is also different formulations of powder out there that is used for industrial purposes and is much stronger than TGIC powder. I am basing my test on simply TGIC powder, which is the lowest form of coating in powder coating. It is simply much easier to penetrate. But that scratch may corrode, but surrounding areas will not blister up and flake off like wet paint does. The top side of sliders stay virtually new. It has a much higher UV stability than wet paint by far. If you want to paint some kind of nonshid to the top of the sliders to prevent slipping when you put your feet on them, then that is no problem. Sand the surface of the powder, and apply the nonskid. If you want to touch up the underside of your sliders, you can do so by either rattle canning or touch up pen. Just do the same thing you would do as if it was all wet painted. Another thing I want to get to is wet paint corroding over time and just flaking off. This would be the topside of the sliders. Once again, the powder coating ensures that is protected much better than wet paint.

Bottom line, the powder coating offers protection all the way around your sliders than just protecting the surface for the meantime. How much do we pay for sliders? Don't you want to ensure that they have a long life span or just look like rusted crap over time? Hell if that was the case, why not buy nerf bars and bang them up and keep replacing them? Same goes with powder coating...over time you will spend a lot of money on touching up and masking off to respray it. Not just the underside, but all over.

I simply am offering a bit more protection to help prolong the life of your metal pieces. When someone talks bad or says powder coating just isn't worth it, then that takes food off of my plate. Lets just put it like this, if you were a slider manufacturer and everyone was saying to get you a pair of sliders for $200 + and I came along and said why don't you get some cheap nerf bars and bang them up and bend them back out with a hammer after you were done wheeling and reuse them? That respectively takes away from the slider manufacturer.

I am here to educate, if you have a question, I will gladly answer. When it comes to my business and current life, you bet your balls I will argue my point until someone understands because I truly believe in it. I want the public to be educated in it as well so they can make better decisions to better benefit them and the shop owners all over the world.

My next education lesson will be in different formulations of powder. Which would be the better buy for your application. I will break it down from hi-temps to epoxies. I have been on both sides of the fence so I can truly state my opinions and back it up with first hand knowledge.

[Henrythewound]

I like PC too, all I was saying over at YT was that "from what I have heard" which could be misinformation, is that once you scratch all the way through the PC on a slider, which is bound to happen, rusting can occur. Left unchecked it can continue beneath the surrounding PC. It's can happen even easier w/ spraypainted sliders. It's just for most people its much easier to do touch ups w/ rust-inhibiting spray. You mentioned touch up pens which I'll admit I know nothing about. I am not a pro painter, just an end user trying to figure out what is best for me to use.

I mean no offense to you, I was just trying to bring to light the point about scratching all the way through the PC/paint. Your PC quality looks great, if you were local to me I would probably have some business for you in the future.

[callmej75]

I see you as no harm to me, but other guys who feed you misinformation, you tend to sway their way and trust they are right. But from my experience and testing, once the scratch starts on a PC'd surface, it is isolated to that scratch and takes a very long time to spread. I would say 4x longer than wet paint. So you can take care of the scratch now or a little later. It will be isolated to that spot as long as the metal is properly prepped and adhesion around the scratch is at its peak. Make sense? I will educate the non knowing before I am done on this earth because this is somewhat new to the market and not everyone seeks education on it unless you hear about it. Take a look around at chairs, stadium railings and what not....9 times out of 10 they are powder coated to resist the weathering and abuse. It isn't scratch proof, but much stronger. I am here to sit the record straight and show you what testing I can do to this stuff first hand to ensure that you do believe it. I am getting some wet paint soon and primer and I will prep it the same as powder coating and put them side by side for that testing to show you also the comparisons between the two.

I just got fed up seeing so many threads where the person would mention powder coating and everyone would speak untruthful things of only what they hear as second hand knowledge rather than first hand. My dad taught me a famous saying a long time ago...

"Believe none of what you hear, and only half of what you see."
If you see it, still question it, and you will eventually get the truth.

[MTL_4runner]

I must be a hardheaded punk although I thought I had a valid point. I won't repeat it here to avoid "ruining" your post.


I don't know what went on over at TOF and I'm not sure that matters. There's nothing wrong with posting a contrary point as long as the person doing so has some sort of reference or basis with which to back up their statement or claim. If the post is just a view or opinion, then so be it (we all know how to finish the old saying "opinions are like...."). As long as it stays a civilized debate, there shouldn't be a problem with discussing it here. Jeremy really knows his stuff on powder coating so ask away and I'm sure we'll all learn something in the process.

[amgraham]

Well, I guess a good example of this is my skids. I prepped them with MEK, primed with Rustoleum Professional, and painted them with Rustoleum Professional Gloss Black.

Here is the before (I scratched them just lifting them in place... They dried for about a week):
http://www.amgraham.com/photogallery/DSC05755-800X600.JPG

And after one wheeling trip:
http://www.amgraham.com/photogallery/DSC06398-800X600.JPG

Now, I wanted to powdercoat them but I simply didn't have the money or ability to get it done at the time. I think they would have held up much better if I had them powdercoated and be less maintenance (since I have to hit them with paint after almost every time I wheel). Now, it is true that powdercoating will scratch through and wear but it will take much longer than with a painted part. As long as you use a common color it's just as easy to touch up as spraypainted stuff it's just you don't have to keep up with it as much.

I'm learning a lot about powdercoating lately and I really like what I hear. My next project is Jeremy is going to powdercoat the header for my truck (which I didn't even know was possible). I'm really looking forward to seeing how that holds up as it seems that headers are very hard to keep from the elements. I will make a thread once that happens for a real world test on that.

Thanks Jeremy for taking the time to do this stuff and educate us. I mean, I know it helps your business but it just shows that you care whether the stuff lasts and that we know what's right for our application.

[callmej75]

Thanks Anthony for the example. We'll put the high temp to test with your header for sure!I do give a squat what I put out because its my name on the line. I will continue to do real world tests for as long as I shoot this stuff. If you all have a problem paying for powder coating, i will try and make arrangements so you can afford it. As long as you work for me, I will try my hardest to work for you.

[BruceTS]

I had my sliders PC, but won't get them done again. Rocks do an easy job of removing it. After every trip I simply spray bedliner paint on them now. As for my skid plates, no form of coating would stand the punishment they go through. I have nothing against PC, but on surfaces that see the abuse I put them through, it's just a waste of $$$.

[callmej75]

How was it prepped? Did they blast it and then use a chemical conversion coating to make the powder stick? This is why so many people call themselves powder coaters and screw jobs up that peel and flake at the least thing that touches it....that gets on my nerves as well. I wish someone was up to letting me do their sliders because I would prove my coating to stick more than some others do with proper prepping. If you under cure it, it will also peel off. Ugh...

[amgraham]

If I get ambitious before next weekend and build my sliders I'll have you coat those too. I just don't know if I'll have time to build them before then. I'll let you know. We'll put all these myths to the test ;)

[callmej75]

If I get ambitious before next weekend and build my sliders I'll have you coat those too. I just don't know if I'll have time to build them before then. I'll let you know. We'll put all these myths to the test ;)


Yes sir...then we'll take it on a hard core run and bring them back and get some pics of the aftermath

[amgraham]

If I get ambitious before next weekend and build my sliders I'll have you coat those too. I just don't know if I'll have time to build them before then. I'll let you know. We'll put all these myths to the test ;)


Yes sir...then we'll take it on a hard core run and bring them back and get some pics of the aftermath


Yup. I'm wanting to hit Crozet again in the next couple months. I got damage on both my rockers last time so I know it would put some sliders to the test.

[BruceTS]

How was it prepped? Did they blast it and then use a chemical conversion coating to make the powder stick? This is why so many people call themselves powder coaters and screw jobs up that peel and flake at the least thing that touches it....that gets on my nerves as well. I wish someone was up to letting me do their sliders because I would prove my coating to stick more than some others do with proper prepping. If you under cure it, it will also peel off. Ugh...


slider were sand blasted before coating, which doesn't matter. The reason is simple, not only does the powder coating get scrapped off, but metal as well. Now if you have some sort of magic coating that is 10 times stronger than steel then I'd be very intrested. Rocks simply wear the coating away, nothing can prevent it. When I do the high speed runs, the whole underside of my rig gets sand blasted, it even took the paint off my OME shocks. Heck you ought to see my Total Chaos A-arms, those are triple coated and I've worn them down as well.

Sliders, bumpers, skid plates are all expendable items, meant to be abused and are there to prevent body damage. To get them powder coated is a waste if you truly use your rig, otherwise you'd be taking them off after a few outing to get them refinished. I just give them a quick sanding and apply more rattle can paint, simple and cheap. Oh did I mention the amount of work needed to remove the coating if you want to weld? That stuff don't sand off too easily..........

[callmej75]

Well the underside may get all scratched up, then what about the topside of the sliders? That is my point is the topside being protected so all you have to do is touch up the underside of them. Oh well...maybe I should give up powder coating for the 4wd market and just do it for show vehicles and motorcycles.

[MTL_4runner]

One thing to keep in mind is that not everyone wheels offroad and even then certainly not to the same degree. If you routinely smash the bottom of your vehicle to bits (to the point that metal is actually being removed too), then it's likely no amount of surface protection is going to do much in contact areas. For the more occasional excursions, it's probably not a bad idea to go with coatings that are more durable and longer lasting. Up here where winters are nasty, it pays big dividends to have stuff powder coated whether you ever go offroad or not.

[Cebby]

I think a lot of it depends on your location. I'm with Jamie - up North (or anywhere that gets salt), it is best to start with something durable. The vehicles aren't rusting as badly as they used to, but they still get rusty over time. Powdercoating prevents this much of the time, but once you get through the PC layer, you've breeched the protection and will find it will rust like anything else if left unprotected. The notion of PC'ing sliders if they will get obliterated doesn't make much financial sense - but if they don't see a ton of hardcore use, then it is a viable option. Even if the underside or outside tubes gets scratched down to bare metal, hitting with a rattle can to protect them seems feasible.

Now the usage Bruce is describing, it doesn't seem like any coating can endure that type of abuse - a constant sand blasting will take almost anything off. I guess my question is, what do the desert racer set coat their metal with to protect it? Is it plated? Or since it is typically a drier climate, do they not need to coat their parts at all?

Welding is certainly another concern - you need to grind the PC off - then again breeching the layer of protection. Obviously anything you are welding to your vehicle needs to remain uncoated until welded then hit with a rattle can to protect from rusting. Grinding PC is a PITA.

I've had good PC work done (by Jeremy) - whatever he does, it's tough as nails. Reasonable and great attention to detail. I've also had mediocre work done locally here in Pittsburgh. Expensive and not overly impressive. I think a lot of it boils down to the time spent on the prep.

[callmej75]

Thanks Ceb....

What I am referring to as the slider as a whole. Wet paint degrades over a short period whereas you only have to touch up the under side of the sliders that get scratched. Saves on time and paint. What I am also saying is when PC is breached as a scratch, it doesn't raise up the rest of the PC, whereas the wet paint peels off in a short period of time because the adhesion of wet paint is nothing compared to PC. It is all in the prepping. To get outstanding adhesion with PC, sandblast, chemical pretreat, and bake to specs and you have a coating that is on there. I tried sandblasting a metal sample panel I did one time and I was using steel grit, cranked up to 160PSI, and burning off tips like a mofo and it still took me about 1/2 hr to blast off a piece 2" x 4". Try that with wet paint...

Bottom line is I look at the slider as a whole instead of just the touching up spots. Plus when you are on the trail, a briar is more likely to scratch wet paint than PC. You guys have saw that on your bodies after a good wheeling trip especially the darker colored vehicles.

That sample panel I did at the beginning of the thread is sitting on the ground outside of the house. No degradation so far and the PC was breached a little. Most of it ground down into the metal with the pounding.