Insane Repair Quote

[ErikJeanna]

First off, let me intoduce myself. My name is Erik and I have a 98 4Runner. I post alot on YotaTech, but a member said to post my dilemna on this borad as well.

Here is the thread from YotaTech, just copied over so you all know what's going on:

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I think I might have to sell my 4Runner...

:argue: :chair: :spank: :flipoff:

Not what I want to do... but I just got a bill from my mechanic saying that it's going to cost $4k to get it running again and take a week to fix. I don't know much about engines, but I trust my mechanic because he's one of my good friends.

On Tuesday, my engine light went on. I was on the freeway and nothing felt like it was "off". When I got off the freeway, I started to feel the car "sputter" at low speeds. From a stop, it jumps and sputters even more. So, I dropped it off at the shop on Thursday and said hook it up and tell me what's wrong... it feels alot like a misfire from a bad plug or something. Just from the sound, my mechanic agreed. However, he'd hook it up and find something else wrong with it. I don't remember what it is, but something like the exhaust valve is dead and he needs to removing alot of my engine down to the block to fix it. Also, since I have over 140K on it, he said alot of belts, hoses, gaskets, etc should also be changed while it's apart so he won't have to charge me the labor again in 6 months when a problem could arise. So, the total is coming out to roughly $4000. Needless to say, I don't have $4K in my pocket to dish out right now.

So, I think I might drop my truck off at a dealership and buy a new car. The dealer said they would give me around $6k for the truck... so that's not bad considering it has $4K in repairs and if I were to fix it and sell it private party, I would probably only get $10K. So, unfortunately, this looks like the route I'm going. I have a TON of stuff done to this truck and it sucks that the dealer is going to get it for next to nothing, but I don't think I have much of a choice.

Any advice from anyone who knows what these types of repairs entail?

Also, here is the bill that the mechanic faxed to me... it's in PDF format and it around 350k or so.

http://www.allenpix.com/misc/yotatech/RunnerQuote.pdf

http://www.allenpix.com/misc/yotatech/CleanTruck_03.jpg

[MTL_4runner]

Erik, let me first say Welcome and nice looking truck.

The very first thing I would do is to double check the compression on that cylinder to make sure it was in fact the valve that went bad and not some other issue. The misfire code P03XX can be quite a few things (bad plug, wire, coil, fuel injector, etc) so just going by what the mechanic says isn't always the best idea. Get yourself a compression test gauge and take a reading on all the driver side cylinders. The #4 cylinder is the one in the middle so use the outer to for getting an idea of what they should be. If you see one that is way out then you've found your culprit and you'll need to pull a head to repair the damage. Let us know what you get for compression numbers and we can go from there.

Also I'm not sure what your mechanical tools/abilities are so is this something you'd consider doing yourself to save money?
.....or are you going to have a mechanic do the work no matter what?

You might also want to add where you are located so if people are nearby they can help out or mention good parts/mechanic sources.

[ErikJeanna]

Wow... I don't think I understood anything other than the hello part at the beginning. I don't know the first thing about engines or how they work. Not my area. So, I wouldn't know how to check anything other than looking at it and seeing if it's there.

[MTL_4runner]

Ok, so it sounds like doing any of the diagnosis is going to be out of the question for you to do yourself. You really have 2 choices and it depends on how much you trust the competency of this mechanic of yours. I would ask him what the compression test numbers were in each cylinder when he did his compression/leakdown test. Then you can either take it at face value or bring it to another shop to verify that what you were told was correct. Nothing would be worse than tearing down an engine only to find out that you didn't need to.

Quite frankly for $4000+, you should be getting a used engine installed. Now if your engine is in excellent shape otherwise then maybe just doing the heads might be a good idea but it is unusual to have a valve burn unless you have a supercharger (which you didn't indicate you had) so you might have another issue causing the valve problem which may surface again later if you don't find the cause first. A used engine can also have issues but if you get a low mileage motor, it will likely give you the best chance at going the distance with what you have.

[ErikJeanna]

Is there any way to "mask" the symptoms of this so I can turn it in to a dealer and get a much as possible for the truck?

[Seanz0rz]

honestly, id replace things like the fuel filter, that seems to have solved my stumbling at speed problem. i never threw a code though.

if it is misfiring, i would check fuel and ign components first.

how does your mechanic know its the exhaust valve?

i would get a second opinion. he might be your best friend, but for 4000, it better be something very serious. dont sell your vehicle, which you probably love, because of a problem like this.

[BruceTS]

Since you don't have any wrenching experience, I'd take it to get a second opinion. I doubt you have a bad valve, it may just need to be adjusted. What code did it throw?

Even if it was a bad valve, $4K is way too high, much cheaper to drop a used imported engine.

[ErikJeanna]

I had someone I trust suggest something before doing all of this work... I want to know what all of you think.

Put an additive into the gas as well as some auto tranny fluid into the crank case and drive it around to see of it can clear up any blockage at the vavle. Does this sound resonable or is this a waste of time. Also, what kind of additive would you reccommend?

[MTL_4runner]

Is there any way to "mask" the symptoms of this so I can turn it in to a dealer and get a much as possible for the truck?


The answer is not really. The issue (if your mechanic is correct) is mechanical so even disconnecting the injector (to mask the problem) for that cylinder is still likely to throw an CEL (not to mention the motor will be noticably sluggish). My suggestion to you would be to at the very least, have an independant shop do a compression and leakdown test on your motor to confirm the findings of the first mechanic. I've seen this stuff get misdiagnosed many times which is why you should be vigilant about looking at all the possibilities before accepting that one of your heads is indeed damaged (which as I mentioned is very rare on a N/A 5VZ motor). If you do have low compression in that cylinder, I have a sneaky suspicion that your #4 cylinder injector went bad, leaned out the cylider and burned your exhaust valve. Definately go get a 2nd opinion though!

[ErikJeanna]

I'm taking photos of my truck into a dealer tonight to show them how it looks AS IS! I want to know what they will give me for it as of ow and what they will if I strip it. If the numbers are substantially different, then I will hand it over and get a new car. But if the numbers are similar... I will be parting out some things on my truck or maybe parking it until I can fix it later. The problem is that I don't have several thousand to dish out right now, but I can handle a small payment for the next few years. If I get anywhere from $6500+ for my truck, I will probably be turning it in.

[MTL_4runner]

If I get anywhere from $6500+ for my truck, I will probably be turning it in.


If you do decide to turn it in, you might try putting it up for sale first and see if someone nearby that wants to take it off your hands and fix it themselves will beat the dealer trade-in price for you. The truck looks like it's in great shape so it would be a good deal for someone with the right skills.

[bamachem]

your "friend" isn't doing you any favors on the timing belt job either. he's charging you retail dealer prices for the parts, and too much for the labor as well.

i got OEM parts from http://trdparts4u.com for ~$250 and then paid another $200 in labor at a local shop (ASE Certified, Toyota Master Tech). I got all the same TB/WP stuff done that's on your list. He's wanting to charge you ~$700 for the same job that I got done for $450. Some "friend".

as far as a bad valve - i highly doubt that, but it is remotely possible. if it is a bad valve, then you can get an OEM junk yard motor for ~$1500 and have it put in for another $1000 at most.

in short, your "friend" is trying to rip you a new one, whether you have a burnt exhaust valve or not.

[Good Times]

Welcome aboard Erik! Glad you've lurked your way over here :)

I don't remember where you live but if you're in the Santa Ana area I would highly recommend you dropping your 4runner off at Swedish Asian Auto. They're on Grand Avenue and have done great work and I will personally recommend them to everyone.

It's unfortunate to see your 4runner in it's injured state but looks can be deceiving. Just because your friend gave you a quote doesn't necessarily mean it's time to trade it in. I've give it another shot with another mechanic somewhere else to get a second opinion. It never hurts to do this and once you get a conclusive answer that it's the same problem you have a better idea on what you want to do. I would do the "sell my 4runner to the dealer" as the very last option. You should also post on craigslist/ebay to see if anyone is interested in it as-is (stating the condition) too. There are lots of "home mechanics" who wouldn't mind to get a steal on a vehicle in it's injured state to fix and make a buck :)

good luck!

[Cebby]

If it's only 1 bad ex. valve, why are they replacing both heads? The prices seem steep to me. Seems they are double hitting you for unnecessary stuff on the labor too.

[ErikJeanna]

Well, I spoke with the dealer and they said they would give me $6500 for 4Runner. I don't see this as bad considering that I would put it up for sale for $10,000. So, $4,000 in repairs or even $3,000 for repairs or a new engine, it's not far off and I can get a new vehicle and make payments instead of using the equity in my house to have the 4Runner fixed. So, 'm pretty sure that this is the way I'm going. As far as a wheelin' rig... mine is a 4x2 and I spoke with the wife and made a deal with her. If I get a "normal" daily driver, she will allow me to buy an older 4Runner to fix up. So, I plan on getting an 85' and fixing it up to climb. So, I'm actually kind of excited about that since I can do what I want to it and don't have to worry about it being my DD. So, when that time comes and I find the perfect one, I'll get to buy it and it'll be my project truck. Thanks for all of your help people... Yota owners ROCK! I'll be back!

[expatoz]

Hi Erik.

Sorry to hear about your truck but it sounds like you've decided on something that will work for you, so that's cool.

I'm not far from you, so if you need any help with anything, give me a pm. I'm on holidays for a month so have som spare time for car/truck stuff. I just wish I still had my compression tester. I'd like to check your numbers first. At a 140mls that does not seem like enough for a valve.If it was a bad injector, and you could have the injector fixed for a few hundred, would that change your mind? Just trying to think of options. (Course I know this is really a ploy to get a 4x4...LOL)

Cheers
Mark

[slosurfer]

Welcom Erik!



I would highly recommend you dropping your 4runner off at Swedish Asian Auto.


:lol:They are also an awesome massage parlor. :rofl:

[MTL_4runner]

I noticed in the thread on TOF you mentioned that the #4 cylinder was 70 psi off from the rest so assuming all the others were in good shape at around 180 psi, then the bad cyclinder was at about 110 psi which would definately indicate some sort of mechanical failure. It's always good to just double check the work when it involves a major overhaul like you were quoted. Then again maybe not if you're going to get a rock crawler out of the deal. :D

[ErikJeanna]

Well, I did it. I'm no longer the owner of a 4Runner... and that makes me sad. When I picked up my truck from the mechanic (not the stealership), it wouldn't even start. So, on top of the current issues, nw I have starting issues as well. So, I took it to the dealership and they ended up giving me $6k towards a new car as well as $2500 from the MFG. So, I ended up putting $8500 down towards a new Chrysler 300 Touring. It's black (of course) with REAL leather (not Toyota "leather"). It has a sunroof, Sirius radio and that UConnect Bluetooth system (LOVE that option). My payments are nothing for the next 3 years... it's going to take 16 months for the payments to equal $4k (cost of 4Runner repairs). As much as I'm sad I don't have my truck anymore... the 300 is an insanely gorgeous and smooth running car. I'll be getting another 4Runner (probably an '85) in about 2-3 years and then fixing it up to be a crawler. Definately going 4x4 this time. But at this point in my life (money, work, kids, etc)... the sedan was the way to go. But I'll be back when I show off my "new" 1st gen and then you all can watch that build up. I'll still be lurking around and piping in every now and then. Thanks for all of your help... you are the best.

[ErikJeanna]

Some parts are for sale... they can be found here:

http://www.yotatech.com/f109/sold-my-4runner-have-some-parts-left-over-121088/

[expatoz]

Erik - you have a pm fom me at YT site.

Thanks
Mark