wanting manual hubs on 01 4Runner

[yotalifer]

Ive been wanting to put manual hubs on my 4runner for a while. I dont like the thought of my front end turning all the time. I know it has to put more wear on everthing and probably hurts my gas mileage.

I found this site but these kits seem awful expensive http://www.offroadsolutions.com/products/manual_hub_conversion.htm

How many of you guys have converted to manual? What all do i need?

thanks,
pb

[Bighead]

Do it yourself Tacoma Manual Hub Swap to a 1996-2002 4Runner: http://www.sonoransteel.com/junk_yard_manual_hubs.html

[Bob98SR5]

the general concensus is (or at least what ive read over the years) is that the benefits are negligible as compared to the cost. one of the first guys to do this mod was jeff from CO ... now i'm drawing a blank on his name. cool guy. anyways, he did the swap and told me and lance on the way back from pismo that it was not worth it. its like installing trd headers---$800 + a ton of headaches for only less than 10hp, most of which you can't feel. A $6 deckplate will get you 7hp :hillbill:

but do your homework and see if its right for you.

[Lee]

i plan to do this too, but its so i can lock the front end with a non selectable locker when i regear soon.

i have done little to no research, i have no idea if im actually doing it, but when the time comes i will be using steve's writeup as a guide for sure.

[Bighead]

the general concensus is (or at least what ive read over the years) is that the benefits are negligible as compared to the cost. one of the first guys to do this mod was jeff from CO ... now i'm drawing a blank on his name. cool guy. anyways, he did the swap and told me and lance on the way back from pismo that it was not worth it. its like installing trd headers---$800 + a ton of headaches for only less than 10hp, most of which you can't feel. A $6 deckplate will get you 7hp :hillbill:

but do your homework and see if its right for you.

It was Jeff Bathke (Jeff the Marmot). You have to remember Jeff bought the ORS kit and back then was even more expensive than it is now. There are other, cheaper options available now like searching a junk yard or finding a manual hub Taco doing a SAC and buying his front end. Personally, I bought Steve's front end when he SAC'd.

Yotajunky: At some point I'm sure this will turn into an axle strength discussion (Manual vs. ADD) as have similar threads in the past. ;)

[blknblu]

Lance maybe you can verify or deny this, since you have them. The gist I got from Schaefer when we've been out wheeling is that if an ADD axle/cv takes a dump, you have to fix it on the spot. Whereas with a manual hub you can unlock that side and still limp along with 3 wheels. So, not a strength issue, but a flexability with vehicle operation issue.

[Casey Likes Metal]

Lance maybe you can verify or deny this, since you have them. The gist I got from Schaefer when we've been out wheeling is that if an ADD axle/cv takes a dump, you have to fix it on the spot. Whereas with a manual hub you can unlock that side and still limp along with 3 wheels. So, not a strength issue, but a flexability with vehicle operation issue.

This is true. I broke an axle and hub in Colorado a few years back and we were able to clean out the hub, unlock it and throw the locker on for 3WD. It got me back to the campsite where I was able to fix it.

[blknblu]

Cool. Now if someone who knows can verify that a broken ADD has to be fixed on the spot we're in business. That's my understanding at least, that since everything spins all the time, you have to replace the axle then and there. This also means you better carry a spare if you wheel hard or at least make sure there is one with you on the trip amongst the group.

[NC994Run]

The other option for ADD is to cut out the half shaft of the broken axle (learned this from Andy (Bamachem) in Tellico a year or 2 ago), but that only leaves you with 2WD, and only a true 2WD if you have a rear locker. So technically you don't have to change it if you don't have a spare, but it's in your best interest to do so.

[Bighead]

Lance maybe you can verify or deny this, since you have them. The gist I got from Schaefer when we've been out wheeling is that if an ADD axle/cv takes a dump, you have to fix it on the spot. Whereas with a manual hub you can unlock that side and still limp along with 3 wheels. So, not a strength issue, but a flexability with vehicle operation issue.

This is true. I broke an axle and hub in Colorado a few years back and we were able to clean out the hub, unlock it and throw the locker on for 3WD. It got me back to the campsite where I was able to fix it.

Casey beat me to it and is correct. That was the prime attraction to me in doing the swap. Now this doesn't keep me from carrying a spare axle and hub but it is nice knowing I can move to a nice flat area to change it out or limp home like Casey did in 3WD.

I've never blown an ADD axle so I can't say what type of damage is done if you drive on it. The only ADD axle I can remember seeing blow was BruceTS's in Moab but he fixed it on the spot.

Casey: Wasn't that on Holy Cross in '05? You, Steve, Jim H, Cheese, and Brent (I was riding with Steve).

[Casey Likes Metal]

Casey: Wasn't that on Holy Cross in '05? You, Steve, Jim H, Cheese, and Brent (I was riding with Steve).


Sure was, French Creek to be exact. In fact, you were the one (among a few others) helping me replace the axle. Good times.

[Lee]

Cool. Now if someone who knows can verify that a broken ADD has to be fixed on the spot we're in business. That's my understanding at least, that since everything spins all the time, you have to replace the axle then and there. This also means you better carry a spare if you wheel hard or at least make sure there is one with you on the trip amongst the group.
it does need to be fixed immediately. thats why i carry spare cv's with me at all times.

[BruceTS]

Going to manual hubs has it's advantages and disadvantages, you have to decide which is worth you while.

With ADD the axles are constantly spinning, so is parts of the diff. Adding wear to those components. ADD axles are stronger and much quicker to replace. It usually takes me 15 to 20 minutes to swap out.

Manual hub axles are weaker in nature, due to the locking mechanism, the shaft diameter is smaller, plus theres a groove cut near the end for a retaining clip, where axles have twisted apart. Then there's the manual hub assembly that isn't the easiest thing to disassemble due to the cone washers that can be a pain to remove. They also have been known to have the internals grenade. Doing an axle swap will take at least twice as long.

As for axle breakage it really depends on where it occurs, wether your gonna be able to drive out on it.

Since I have all the components to do a manual hub swap on my rig, I'm thinking about trying it out to see if it's worth it. The main reason I like the idea, it keeps my ARB locker from spinning, so it should make the o-rings last longer than they do now....

The only problem is I have to assemble custom axle using Tundra shafts and inner CV's with Tacoma manual hub CV outers. I made an attempt to build a jig to separate them, but the way the factory attached the front CV I had to cut the cage on the ADD outers to remove them and cut the axle shafts of Taco axle to get to remove the outers, then I was able to piece them together.

In the image below shows an axle with outer ADD assy attached, 2 Tundra axle shafts, rebuilt ADD outer CV, 2 rebuilt manual hub outer CV's, a complete modified Tundra axle with manual outer and one with ADD outer.
http://bruce.calrockx.com/4runner/misc/axles.jpg

As you can see in the image the ADD outer has a larger diameter shaft in especially in the splined area, where all the load is transmitted to.

[ecchamberlin]

I broke a ADD cv and drove 35 miles on it because at the time I was not smart enough to carry a spare which I now do. My bread was the outer joint seperating due to excesive steering turn on a really steep down grade. So basically the star part of the joint popped out of the outer and all the ball bearings fell out and destroyed the boot.

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/ecchamberlin/brokencv.jpg

I just took it really easy especially on turns and made it out fine with no additional damage.

I am sure my case was rare and if it was any other type of cv breakage I would not have been able to drive that far on it. It did make a hell of a lot of noise and got progresively worse as I drove on.

Very quick and easy to swap a cv now that I know how to do it.