Why do some people just not take PRIDE in what they do...

[bamachem]

So I take the Acura in for a TB/WP service - $745 + tax.

On Monday, I called to set up the appointment and asked "Does the price include the Timing Belt, Water Pump, Tensioner, Accessory Belts, Thermostat, Coolant, and all new gaskets and o-rings for all of them?" The answer was "YES."

Now jump to yesterday. I dropped by to give them the loaner (nice little TSX) and pick up the Legend. However, I look at the receipt and there is no tensioner on there. I ask the service writer and he says "it's included in the kit". I said "What kit?". The receipt listed every part and gasket, but no tensioner. I wasn't happy at all. He said that the tech must have checked it and it was good, so he didn't replace it. My response was "must have"? Anyway, I let it go and I drove it home and all was good - or so I thought. About two hours later, we were all going to go to our neighborhood pool for a swim, so I cranked it up to let it cool off inside (98+ here yesterday) while I got the towels, etc. I start backing out of the driveway and this is what I see:

http://4rnr.net/acura-leak.jpg

If you can't tell from the pic, it's pinkish in color (Honda-Red-Coolant type of PINK). Anyway, pop the hood, look all over, and there has been coolant sprayed in the engine, but no active leaking. I'm like WTF?!?!? Anyway, I think the backpressure of the thermostat being closed either blew the thermostat o-ring or something else. I start looking around and one of the grooved accessory belts is off by one tooth on the crank pulley. It's riding up on the side of the freaking pulley! How incompetent can you get? I look more and find a drain hose rubbing on another accessory belt, and a bolt missing from the Timing Belt cover.

Needless to say, I'm pissed.

I show up at the dealer at 7am - before they open. The service manager is there opening up and I have a nice chat (professional, and just showing my disappointment in the level of attention and detail). He promised a full teardown and start over for the TB/WP job by a Master Tech to get to the bottom of the leak as well as an inspection by his own eyes of the tensioner.

Why the hell can't the people at the dealerships take some pride in how they do their jobs? Sorry I'm on a rant this morning! :tapedshut: :chair: :argue:

[MTL_4runner]

Andy, I feel for you but I came to a similar conclusion after my WP went and they subsequently did a timing belt, WP and the works on mine to the tune of $900 (taxes in). Then I get 1 hour down the highway and it overheats again! I also have no recourse because I can't bring it back to the place that did the work, they're 300 miles away from me. In the process on inspecting the motor for damage I looked at the timing belt job and it too was shoddy work (bolts missing, wires not clipped back properly or rubbing on my ascessory belts, you name it). The bottom line is that if you want stuff done right on your vehicle, you pretty much gotta do it yourself. This type of thing happens almost every time I bring it to the dealer for anything more major than an oil change. It's sad because I really don't always have the time to fix daily driver vehicles, but I know if I don't then I'll end up doing it myself in the end anyway. Anyway I hope they do get one of their veteran techs to redo the job for you and it's actually done properly this time.

[hillbilly]

Sadly, I believe most of these places 'do what they do' because they can, and do, get away with it 99% of the time. You're one of the exceptions. You knowledgeable, and know exactly what parts are included in a given service. Most people don't have a clue :screwy:, nor do they really care. They simply want to drop it off and pick it up "all fixed" in 8 hours. Halfa$$ jobs cut time, allowing more turn over, and keep the shop active with repeat problems. Granted, everyone's entitled to a screw up, but it certainly sounds like you got some shotty work.

Personally, I avoid any dealership. Luckily I found a local tech that runs his own shop and is a true 'old school' motor head. He gets everything I can't handle. He primarily services domestics, but is open to foreign work if asked. The main thing is he's honest and stands by his work. Matter of fact, my neighbor experienced significant issues with his Blazer a few months ago, just before they were to go on vacation. The symptoms indicated he might have blown the HG (110,000 miles). Typically he takes it to the dealer, but I convinced him give my guy a try.

The diagnosis was the HG bolts had backed off and just needed re-torqued. Granted the tech kept it for about a week to test/confirm he findings, but he only charged a small faction of what most other shops would have charged for a complete HG replacement. Several months later my neighbors still a grateful customer and will definitely be a repeat customer in the future. That, my friends, is good business. :thumbup:

Ask for recommendations at your local auto parts houses. I'll bet there's one around... you just have to find him.

Good luck.

[bamachem]

Yeah, I priced a local ASE Honda Independent shop here and they were $30 cheaper (but included the tensioner) when using Acura OEM parts and they didn't include the loaner car. I had a 15% off a service at the dealer so that's why they were so competitive on price. I'm moving in 5 days over 500-miles away, so if I went w/ the Indy, then I would basically have zero warranty as well. I don't know any independents down on the Coast to trust, so I figured that I couldn't go wrong at the dealer since it would have a nationwide 12-month / 12k mile warranty, 15% off, and a loaner car to boot.

The thing about Acura is that they similar to Lexus and if you can't give them "all-10's" on the customer survey then they want to bend over backwards to make you happy in the end. Those surveys are like GOLD to them and if they receive just a SATISFACTORY, they act like it's the end of the world. Anyway, I think they'll do the right thing, and if they still don't fix it, at least I can take it into the dealership in Mobile if I have to.

Jamie, is that the closest dealer to you? I'm pretty sure that Toyota dealers honor the warranty on parts and labor (in the states) nation-wide and any location.

[hillbilly]

Agreed. Your situation is different since you're in transition.

[off topic] Going to AL again?!? Didn't you just relocate to TN from AL a year or two ago? [/off topic]

[MTL_4runner]

Jamie, is that the closest dealer to you? I'm pretty sure that Toyota dealers honor the warranty on parts and labor (in the states) nation-wide and any location.

Unfortunately even the closest US Toyota dealer is 2+ hrs from me. Toyota Canada is a completely seperate company so they'll just tell me to shove off if I asked them for any help on this. I hate it, but I think I'm on my own to get this one solved. It's not such a big deal now anyway since we got a new CRV as my wife's DD.

The biggest problem with getting work done at the dealer is that the mechanics get paid by the job, not by the hour per se. This means that if mechanics finish the job faster, their effective hourly rate goes up......so when speed makes money, pride in your work often goes out the window in favor of increased wages to pay the bills at home. Alot of independent shops just pay techs at a straight hourly wage so you often get a better quality of work from them. The only trouble is finding a skilled one you can trust.

[bamachem]

yeah, we moved here about 2yrs-8months ago.

we're going "home". :D i grew up on the gulf coast and have missed it terribly in the 10-years that i've been gone.

jamie, yeah, i know what you mean. i just had the TB/WP done on the Land Cruiser two weeks ago at an independent here in town. I got the TB, WP, tensioners, serp belt, thermo and coolant for $840 out the door w/ tax and using all Toyota parts. he's a master toyota technician who spent 20 years at the dealer, "retired" from there and opened his own used car lot and does maintenance work in the garage to fill his time. very nice guy and very trustworthy.

i'll have $2000 in services/repairs in just one month for the two vehicles we have. i just put $400 in tires on the Acura as well, and the Cruiser needs front pads, a rotor resurface, and an antenna mast. at least the big $$$ ones are done for the next 5-8 years...

[MTL_4runner]

Jamie, yeah, i know what you mean. i just had the TB/WP done on the Land Cruiser two weeks ago at an independent here in town. I got the TB, WP, tensioners, serp belt, thermo and coolant for $840 out the door w/ tax and using all Toyota parts. he's a master Toyota technician who spent 20 years at the dealer, "retired" from there and opened his own used car lot and does maintenance work in the garage to fill his time. very nice guy and very trustworthy.

The place I used to work at was an independent shop run by a 25 yr Toyota Master Tech too (it was nice to learn from someone that good). We worked on mostly imports (esp Honda and Toyota), but if a really good customer had a domestic that needed work, we'd help them out too. We only used factory parts (even if the customer requested otherwise, so it was pretty much just like a dealership) and could offer very competitive rates for factory/repair work (we were even authorized to do warranty work by Honda and Toyota). That's definately the type of place you want doing work on your vehicle.

[CJM]

This is why I wont go to the stealer, I have my good friends shop I can use if I want and if I cant do the work he can help me if I buy him some goodies (what 20 bucks worth of stuff maybe?). He wont dare charge me labor unless its a real big job.

[Seanz0rz]

i have my private mechanic who i trust completely. if he says it needs replacing, it does, and i OK the work with out question.

i try to do just about everything i can myself. first, its alot cheeper, second, im learning valuable skills, and last, i KNOW its done right.

i dont even like going to the stealer to get parts anymore. they look at me like im a criminal for not letting them do the work...

[xcmountain80]

Next time I go to the stealer I'm wearing a shoulder holster and asking for the man in charge, then assure him we need to go outside and talk.

Aaron

[bamachem]

Got it fixed.

The service manager was more than apologetic and helpful.

He had a senior tech tear it down and pull the water pump to check the seal. He put the timing belt back on, re-assembled everything, and replaced the one belt that the other tech had screwed up. They found the discharge hose on the water pump wasn't quite seated well and the clamp was loose. We suspect that when the car was cold and the thermostat was closed, then it would leak like a sieve, and as soon as the thermostat would open, it would quit. That would explain why it leaked a large amount, but quit when the car ran for a couple minutes and it didn't do it again while trying to make it re-occur.

Anyway, they took care of the issue and gave me a free oil change for my troubles... whoopie...

[xonetruthcrewx]

Hell yeah! A free oil change. Haha. Glad you got it all figured out. Just another reason not to go to the dealer though. Part of the problem with the dealer, at least around here is that the mechanics (if you would call them that) dont get paid crap. I know that my nearest Toyota dealer the techs have to have their own tools and make in the area of 15 bucks an hour. Pretty crappy if you ask me. At least crappy for Cali. There is usually one master mechanic at the dealer and the rest are half tards. If the car has to go the way of someone wrenching on it besides myself, lucky for me i have a friend that is an incredible mechanic. Hopefully that never happens though, so far i have been able to tackle every problem any of my vehicles have given me.

[YotaFun]

i have my private mechanic who i trust completely. if he says it needs replacing, it does, and i OK the work with out question.

i try to do just about everything i can myself. first, its alot cheeper, second, im learning valuable skills, and last, i KNOW its done right.

i dont even like going to the stealer to get parts anymore. they look at me like im a criminal for not letting them do the work...


I have a private mech as well that I just started to take Tess to.
A Sunoco Down the road where I go to take it for inspection.
He gave me a break over my last one when I had a CEL issue and he gave me an extension till I got the issue resolved on my own.
Then after that he gave me a few extra months on the expiration date.

I also had him do the A/C Compressor bearing when it went.
I have mixed feeling though.
The job was done right and well, I have pushed her hard since and she is still running strong.
But after the work I went to do an oil change and noticed that an extra gasket (it was extra I double checked the work), and the lower piece of plastic on the fan surrounding had come loose and were laying on the skid plate.
The gasket didn't worry me as much since it has been 10K since the work and I have not had any issues with the a/c compressor.
The only thing that did worry me is that piece of plastic, I have to replace it because it didn't get bent, but I don't know if it was his doing or not, I don't believe it was, but i noticed that he did have to remove the lower radiator hose to get to the a/c compressor.

Oh, Did I mention that they lost my keys too. (they did replace them, remote and all) but still...

He does great work I am just not sure if I am ready to take it back to get the TB/WP and all that jazz.

I would do the work myself, but with a schedule of school and work I do not have the time, and I need to build up my tool collection.

I am doing my power steering pump myself though!

But I am not looking forward to going to the stealer, cause like Sean said, they give evil looks.

I heard one guy whisper to another once as I walked by "He's the one that knows too much."
I do too!
When I first got Tess I went to ask a Tech at Toyota about something, and no one knew not even the master tech.
Then I joined a lot of online forums and started talking to you wonderful people and now I know more about my truck then any tech that I have come to know.

I don't know, I am unlucky with these things, my father seems to get all the luck, (and my mother too) but when it comes to me and stepdad we are always SOL.

[Lee]

i noticed that he did have to remove the lower radiator hose to get to the a/c compressor.

er... no he doesnt. i didnt.

[YotaFun]

i noticed that he did have to remove the lower radiator hose to get to the a/c compressor.

er... no he doesnt. i didnt.


Well I presumed that he removed it because when looking at the hose it looks like the clap had moved.
Maybe he didn't, just evidence suspects that it did.

[Texas Jim]

I will tell you why people do not take pride in what they do. It's one simple word,Lazy!! they just don't take the time to do it right the first time... TJ

[rocket]

Dealerships let rookies do a lot more major work than most people know.
99% of screwed up jobs should be blamed on incompetence.