Gas Gauge Wonders

[YotaFun]

I have a 97' SR5 Auto 4WD
This past winter, right about February,
I started to have issues with my gas gauge.

However recently I have come to find out that it is not the sending unit in the tank...

Somehow my fog lights are messing up the gas gauge.

When my fog lights are on, the gas gauge reads 1/4 below what it is really at.

When the fogs are off, it is normal.

At first I thought this might have been a ground issue with the fog lights.

But after grounding the fogs right to the frame.

I still have the same issue as when the fogs were grounded to the bumper.

Can anyone give me any input on this?

Because I would like to be able to drive with the fogs on, without having to remind myself every time that the gas gauge is reading a 1/4 below what it is.

I will get some video footage in a bit.

Thanks for the help.
~Avy

Here is the video to show what I mean.

http://i8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Nighthief/4Runner/th_3a842a03.jpg (http://s8.photobucket.com/albums/a2/Nighthief/4Runner/?action=view&current=3a842a03.flv)

[Robinhood4x4]

Are these aftermarket fog lights? If so, where did you tap the power from?

[YotaFun]

They are aftermarket,
However, they retain the exact same wiring as the stock ones that came on the truck.
Same relay, same power and ground tap, same tap on the headlights wire so that when the high beams are on, they go off.
I even have the factory fog switch.

[YotaFun]

Bump...

[MTL_4runner]

The only reason you'd see something like that was if you were dropping the operating voltage on the battery. Did you test the system to see what the charged voltage is on the battery? Is the alternator charging properly? You might also have the battery load tested just to be sure that system is ok. If all checks out then you may need to redo the wiring for the fog lights, using the realy and wiring them directly to the battery instead. They may just take more juice than the factory fogs.....not sure on that.

[YotaFun]

The only reason you'd see something like that was if you were dropping the operating voltage on the battery. Did you test the system to see what the charged voltage is on the battery? Is the alternator charging properly? You might also have the battery load tested just to be sure that system is ok. If all checks out then you may need to redo the wiring for the fog lights, using the realy and wiring them directly to the battery instead. They may just take more juice than the factory fogs.....not sure on that.


Recently I have been also having some starting issues which I am chalking up to a bad battery.
The reason I say bad battery, I was with a friend of mine who works for AAA and asked him to test my bat.
And test did prove that the battery should be replaced.
Should I start there and then worry about the alternator and such?

Just going to go off topic quickly.
I plan on running a lot of aux lights on Tess, is there a beefier alternator I should be looking into?

[YotaFun]

Well the issue has been solved!
But I have a few more questions lol!

First off, to solve the issue I ran the grounds for the lights straight back to the negative terminal on the battery.
1) This made the gas gauge issue go away.
2) The lights are actually shinning nice and bright like they should.

Now my question is.
Why is it like that?
Am I going to have to run a negative line for all my aux lights when I put them on back to the negative terminal?

Or is this a sign that my alternator is going, cause I had the battery checked and its good.
How can I test my alt voltage to make sure its good?
Cause I did notice after I got the job done that when ever I turn on the lights or even use the power window it sounds like the alt is starting to strain or the belt might be starting to loose its grip.

[Seanz0rz]

im guessing your chassis ground on the battery is under sized. i plan on beefing up mine very soon.

[Tanto]

Replacing the battery seems the most prudent thing to do since that is an important issue anyways.

And if it doesn't fix everything, at least you know that you have a reliable battery.

[YotaFun]

Would a battery going cause a strain on the alternator though?
Though I don't have a dimming of the lights when I use any power accessory so.
When the truck come back from the shop after my rear end issues is figured out I will take it to Autozone and check both the alternator and then battery.

[surf4runner]

Would a battery going cause a strain on the alternator though?
not likely.
a poor/weak ground could though.


in my 02, i get more out of the 1st half tank then the second :screwy:

[ETRNL]

3 words for ya..
Big 3 Upgrade!
i did it to my 4runner and it improved battery charge drastically. i even added a 4th wire from neg bat to frame..

[YotaFun]

ETRNL
Thats is what I have to do.
I ended up running the grounds from the lights back to the battery and that seemed to solve the Issue.
What Is involved in the Big Three Upgrade?
The only ground I know of are from the bat to the body and the engine to the body.

[corax]

I use 10 or 8 guage wire and make my own to the length I want with regular round wire eyes (you can buy generic "Grounding Kits" most anywhere, but it's cheaper / better to do it yourself)
Batt - Body
Batt - Engine
Body - Frame / Engine

you could also try cleaning up the ground attaching points. some people sand a bit of paint away from the attachment under the ground lug - you live in PA, Land of Road Salt, so if you go that route after it's all bolted tight put some paint on top to prevent rust. You can also lightly thread a tap through the ground bolt hole (make sure the diameter & pitch is correct) to clean paint off the threads and give a better ground. Some people will use a star washer under a ground lug, but I don't like to because it's less contact surface and room for water / corrosion / rust to start. Make sure there isn't any crud on the mating side of the ground lugs (use some sandpaper to clean it up)

also - buy a cheap wire brush battery terminal cleaner and wash any filth off the top of the battery (baking soda + water and a plastic stiff bristle brush - rinse well)

[YotaFun]

Where is the body to frame ground?

[corax]

make one - pick an empty bolt hole as one end of the ground wire on the body and a bolt nearby on the frame. try not to use a bolt that goes through a bushing as 12V won't go through rubber or polyurethane :) you can do it in the front of the vehicle of the rear, it shouldn't make that mush difference, but front may be better

you can also "daisy chain" the grounds where you run one redundant wire from the battery (make sure you keep the fat factory wire to the block, you need that for the massive current required by the starter) - body - frame - engine with eyes stacked on the same bolt hole or eyes installed in the middle of the wire (bend wire in half & crimp)

[YotaFun]

I will do that.
Hopefully that will fix that issue.

[corax]

at the very least it'll probably give you more available voltage to your accessories.

edit: not more current than your alternator can supply, but you can reduce voltage lost through the grounds

[YotaFun]

Which I will need since I plan on running rock lights and such.

[corax]

Which I will need since I plan on running rock lights and such.


do you know what the stock amperage rating for your rig is? I've heard Toy's from the 80's can upgrade by using an alternator from a turbo MR2 which I beleive is around 110 amps (from mid 80's stock 60 amp) -- but you may have to switch the plug on the wire harness to fit the alternator -- though depending on what the stock rating is, you may not gain anything

[YotaFun]

I do ,ot know, and I am sure I couldn't get it now.
I heard that there is a chevy alt that will bolt up.

[Seanz0rz]

stock is a dismal 70A

[4runnerchevy]

The MR2 is the 100+ model, but regardless what you get, mods are needed. There might be a kit somewhere (brackets an belt) for the GM CS alternator, the 1 wire or the MR2. My Toylet has came stock with a 100 amp which is not hard to modify the wiring into the toy.

[ETRNL]

i used 4 gauge all the way around.. it cost me 30 bucks from a local stereo shop for oxygen free 4gauge and eight 4gauge terminals. the longest part of the project was crimping the terminals on and wraping the wire in elec, tape.
and my thereoy on wire is you might as well do it once with bigger than what you need..
took some pics of my '01 4runner,
alt to bat,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1891.jpg
bat to frame,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1892.jpg
frame to bat to body,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1893.jpg
yes i know i have a lot of wiring here.. but it all is solid..

[4runnerchevy]

i used 4 gauge all the way around.. it cost me 30 bucks from a local stereo shop for oxygen free 4gauge and eight 4gauge terminals. the longest part of the project was crimping the terminals on and wraping the wire in elec, tape.
and my thereoy on wire is you might as well do it once with bigger than what you need..
took some pics of my '01 4runner,
alt to bat,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1891.jpg
bat to frame,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1892.jpg
frame to bat to body,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1893.jpg
yes i know i have a lot of wiring here.. but it all is solid..






Good theory, bigger=less loss and room for upgrade.

[YotaFun]

I finally started working again.
So once I get some cash in the bank (just used the last bit I had to by some MT Classic II Rims cheap)
I will go ahead and upgrade them.

Oh, just a little off topic but still in the electrical department,
I was trying to remove my ABS fuse (don't as long story) and the little plastic cover came off.
1) How much is a new fuse?
2) HOW THE HECK DO YOU GET THE OLD ON OUT!?!?! It's freakin glued in there!

[Seanz0rz]

fuses? cheap, get some quality buss ones at a napa, thats just about all ill use. for getting it out, use a pair of needle nose pliers.

[YotaFun]

Thanks Sean,
I will do that next week when I get my first paycheck, FINALLY!

[corax]

I was trying to remove my ABS fuse (don't as long story) and the little plastic cover came off.

HOW THE HECK DO YOU GET THE OLD ON OUT!?!?! It's freakin glued in there!


I think I know the type of fuse you're talking about (little clear plastic window?), it is probably just the type that pushes in. If it absolutely refuses to come out, I have seen that type with screws through the legs for a better elec contact, but I don't know about your specific year

[YotaFun]

Yes it is the fuse with the little plastic window.
I don't know, Maybe someone with a 96 V6 4Runner can chime in.

[Seanz0rz]

abs "fuse" is not a fuse, its a fusable link. as for the plastic top cover, just super glue it back in place, no worries there.

im pretty sure to remove it you must remove the positive input to the fuse box from the battery. there seems to be a metal bar that acts as a retainer, but to avoid having my truck out of service, youre on your own.

[YotaFun]

Let me clarify why I have to replace it.
That little plastic cover went Buh-bye when it came off
(fell into the engine bay never to be seen again)


but to avoid having my truck out of service, youre on your own.

Aww I love you too :-P
LMAO!!!

Well see when I have the time, I have spring break all week long and I have some off days
(that I am going to use to detail the truck all nice nice)
Mom will be home, I can 'borrow' the Lexus when I need to get around.

[Seanz0rz]

if the cover is gone, just stick some electrical tape on it to seal it from moisture until you are able to replace it.

is the fuse part still intact? or did that blow/break? if its still connected, youre fine until you can find time to replace.

[YotaFun]

Yeah it hasn't blown yet.
I guess I wont be disabling ABS for when I hit the trails :-P

[Flomaster]

i used 4 gauge all the way around.. it cost me 30 bucks from a local stereo shop for oxygen free 4gauge and eight 4gauge terminals. the longest part of the project was crimping the terminals on and wraping the wire in elec, tape.
and my thereoy on wire is you might as well do it once with bigger than what you need..
took some pics of my '01 4runner,
alt to bat,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1891.jpg
bat to frame,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1892.jpg
frame to bat to body,
http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j106/ETRNL/100_1893.jpg
yes i know i have a lot of wiring here.. but it all is solid..


you grounded your battery twice. instead of grounding to the inner fender well it should have been from engine block to frame. electricity flows in a loop and not putting 4GA *Cough(should have been 1/0)Cough* from your block to frame means thats the bottle neck of the system. you alternator is grounded to the engine hence why you need to make that big ground from the block to teh frame.

now where the heck is the engine block to frame ground cable located often its a steel braided flat cable with no insulation. anybody know?

BTW 1/0 welding wire can be had for probably less than the 4ga wire the stereo shop sold you

-=jason=-

[Scuba]

ahha, you gas gauge is magical...:D


:bling:

[corax]

now where the heck is the engine block to frame ground cable located often its a steel braided flat cable with no insulation. anybody know?
-=jason=-


It's better for RF grounding - simple wire, even in short lengths, can start to act like an antenna very quickly.

[Flomaster]

now where the heck is the engine block to frame ground cable located often its a steel braided flat cable with no insulation. anybody know?
-=jason=-


It's better for RF grounding - simple wire, even in short lengths, can start to act like an antenna very quickly.


I am going to just find a suitable place on the block and mount it off a bolt close to the frame.
in the other thread I was told the engine block on the passenger side near the intake has a wire grounding to the firewall. I think I will upgrade that wire instead of going to the frame.

-=Jason=-