I LOVE campuses, college that is

[oly884]

So, yesterday, I arrive on campus, enjoying the beautiful weather, and especially the fact that I had 55 days (54 now) till I'm officially done with school, I noticed several thousand small orange flags littering the campus lawn.

It took me about 10 seconds before I knew why they were there.

Each flag represented a fallen United States soldier. Now, I understand there are a lot of people in this country that hate the war we are in, and hate everything about the president, but I'm getting to the point where it's becoming flat out annoying. Is there NO other side to this conflict, do people just think that the war is ONLY about oil, money, and/or WMD's?

I had asked myself the question of what would happen if I, David Olson, were to stage something to the similar scale, however referring to the freedom that we are creating, the horrible people that we are, "removing" from the world? What would the response be to that? Considering I was on campus for most of the day, I did not notice any problems, no tearing of the signs down, no ripping of the flags up. Granted, I knew many people that wanted to, but they let them have their day in the sun.

I'm not going to respond as to what I think would happen if I did it, but ask yourself of what you think would happen.

Comments, suggestions, am I just a pissed off conservative?

[localmotion]

Funny that you should mention this. Today I was walking out of my class and in the middle of campus, there were tons of shoes lined up. I thought, how weird, this is different. Well as I continued walking, I noticed it was for a campaign to stop the war. Instead of putting the shoes of the fallen soldiers out to represent how many U.S. soldiers have died, they decided to do it with the Iraqis. I was kind of livid when I saw this because U.S. citizens care more about the other countries people more than they do about ours. Don't get me wrong, I am not a die hard conservative, but I feel that our country must come first.

Maybe I am taking it the wrong way or whatever, but hell, if you don't support the war, at least support the people who are fighting it. No reason to get angry at them and protest against them. Am I wrong?

[oly884]

I agree completely.

I find it very distasteful to use the deaths of US soldiers to protest a war.

Many of my friends that are/were in the armed forces say that they feel it's honorable to die for their country and freedom, and then you have people using their deaths to do just the opposite.

Then there's the fact that I go to school for one thing, to learn. I pay my tuition to keep the campus looking nice and pay the teachers. I don't pay tuition so I can go to school to see this stuff.

I understand people don't like this war, but they need to have some damn respect for the soldiers, and their families.

[Robinhood4x4]

Did any of the shoes fit?

[localmotion]

ahahahahahhaha. I am actually sick so I just ignored them and walked away shaking my head. Next time I'll just pick them up and throw them down the sewer! or hand them out to the homeless.

[calrockx]

I'm not gonna say US citizens are inherently more important or valuable than Iraqi, but I think it's important to also not forget many have died on that side as well. The terrorist *cavalier expletive removed* I don't care about, but the innocent Iraqi casualties should not go unnoticed.

So when someone puts out flags or such to visually illustrate how many US soldiers have died, I think that makes the number hit home a little more than reading or hearing it on TV.

[localmotion]

I would have to agree with you Charles. The more I think about it, the more it makes sense.

I just wish they would have done the U.S. soldiers as well. Today they had the same thing go one but they also included a speaker. I did not have time to stick around, nor do I think many of the students really cared, which I think is pathetic.

[Cheese]

With respect to war, it makes me sad. I was an undergraduate at a place like Berekeley when we invaded Iraq. I loathed every day and the disrespect squandered on the priviledged.

I am a closet liberal, so bear with me. In college, being a liberal is a rallying cry, people do it because everyone does it. Crapping on the admininstration always seems the right thing to do.

With respect to a counter thing, my buddies made "Straight Pride" shirts during gay pride week. They are banned for life from the Michigan Tech Student Union.

I am sad the life is lost, I am disappointed something else was not undertaken, but I understand we are there and trying our damnedest.

[slosurfer]

How come those same protesters never talk about the # of people that were murdered there by their own gov't. before we arrived, or the genocide that could possibly take place were we to just pack up and leave. Usually I just ignore the protesters, but sometimes I will pick their brains. Like comparing the # of soldiers killed since the war started to the # of Marines killed on just one island in the Pacific. Don't get me wrong, I highly value the life of our men and women, (I have at least one friend that I know of who was KIA in Iraq), I just think that many of these kids protesting have had everything they ever wanted and they don't even care to know the history of our country. They just go with the now because they heard something from a friend who heard it from someone else who read it off of someone's blog on the internet. They don't even care to get the facts for themselves anymore. :chair:

[cootees]

With respect to a counter thing, my buddies made "Straight Pride" shirts during gay pride week. They are banned for life from the Michigan Tech Student Union.

Thats rather humurous that they made those shirts. That should not be any reason to ban them though.

[oly884]

With respect to war, it makes me sad. I was an undergraduate at a place like Berekeley when we invaded Iraq. I loathed every day and the disrespect squandered on the priviledged.

I am a closet liberal, so bear with me. In college, being a liberal is a rallying cry, people do it because everyone does it. Crapping on the admininstration always seems the right thing to do.

With respect to a counter thing, my buddies made "Straight Pride" shirts during gay pride week. They are banned for life from the Michigan Tech Student Union.

I am sad the life is lost, I am disappointed something else was not undertaken, but I understand we are there and trying our damnedest.


I'll say it too, war makes me sad. I hate it, and with regards to this war, hind sight is 20/20. However, that does not change my belief that we should be over there, and trust me, I know PLENTY of people will disagree with what I just said.

Adrian, I do agree that being a liberal in college is a rallying cry, I see it every day. Between a fair portion professors, speakers, and simply the atmosphere on campuses, what are young and impressionable minds to do?

Now, I'm not saying that only the young and impressionable become liberal, not at all. We need a balance of ideas, that's what makes the US such a great country.

The one thing that I do have a problem with is the utter hatred of this administration. It's one thing to disagree with them, it's another to not have the slightest respect. I think that is my biggest issue with this "modern day college liberalism" I don't need to elaborate here because I think we all know what I'm speaking of.

And yes, it would be wrong if the roles were flipped. An example would be how Mrs. Pelosi is visiting Bashar Assad. Now, I can go on and on about how much I don't agree with her, but she's doing what she thinks is right and I respect that she's got the balls (haha) to do it.

That is too bad for what happened to your buddies, it's sad that society can be "harmed" :roll: by something so small and insignificant.

I too am deeply saddened by the life that is lost over there. Every time I hear about it, I do wonder if it's right that we are over there. So, every one, please don't feel like I'm blindly supporting the war.

Sorry for the long response with all the tangents.

[Cheese]

The problem is in a couple arenas.

On the one hand, some say all war is wrong. I will buy that as a stance though I personally think some times violence is needed. If you want to say only certain wars are wrong, you must have good reason. Things like this seem to be hard to justify absolutely as they are value judgments and not science.

Some times these same anti-war people say the US has an obligation to stay out of the way, unless the way involves the recent lefty leaning foster child of the moment. These people will never be pleased by the government, so I don't care to appease them.

I have taken a call from an old roommate who was standing in the palace, one of my cousins has done time in Iraq and Afghanistan. To them, all the men and women there, all who may still go and all who have lost their lives, I want to say my thank you loud in hopes of drowning out the rest.

Whether or not the right reasons got us there, we are there. It is a large scale disaster, there is no doubt in my mind, but anything short of staying the course will piss on the graves of the men and women on both sides who have given their lives.

As to illiterate collegiate liberals, I lump them with regurgitating evangelicals. You have more clout in my world when you have thought about it and can say why something is right for you, not tell me why it is right for everyone.

[mastacox]

I found this pdf file from the Defense Department very interesting. The numbers really speak for themselves- pay special attention to the total deaths column and notice what years they took place in. Not quite what the left tries to argue, hmmm? :headscratch:

http://siadapp.dior.whs.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates1.pdf

[dlbrunner]

The Iraq war is huge and perplexing problem. I think we will see a lot more fallout domestic and abroad that we can even anticipate.

The sheer number of guys coming back missing limbs is scary. I absolutely think we should take care of these folks in some form or other for the rest of their lives because of the sacrifice they made for the rest of us back stateside. We are heading for another generation of injured Vets (like Vietnam), I just hope we deal with the issue better than it has been dealt with in the past. In light of the Walter reed scandal I don't think we are off to a good start.

Lots of college students are liberal, then they get their first job, gain some maturity and decide on a path from there. I have liberal leanings on some issues, conservative on others. Most college age students lack a lot of maturity and life stuff and do really stupid things. I just can't give much credibility to some yahoo yelling at me about how the war sucks when 10 minutes before a protest he was probably shooting a potato gun off the dorm room roof. The guy has freedom of speech though, protected by the first ammendment, I just choose not to listen.

I really don't understand why we are still there though. After Saddam got caught, we should have bailed. No one likes an occupying army in country, and eventually they will get shot at. Kind of like the Revolutionary war!

[Bob98SR5]

How come those same protesters never talk about the # of people that were murdered there by their own gov't. before we arrived, or the genocide that could possibly take place were we to just pack up and leave. Usually I just ignore the protesters, but sometimes I will pick their brains. Like comparing the # of soldiers killed since the war started to the # of Marines killed on just one island in the Pacific. Don't get me wrong, I highly value the life of our men and women, (I have at least one friend that I know of who was KIA in Iraq), I just think that many of these kids protesting have had everything they ever wanted and they don't even care to know the history of our country. They just go with the now because they heard something from a friend who heard it from someone else who read it off of someone's blog on the internet. They don't even care to get the facts for themselves anymore. :chair:


my thoughts exactly. they only decry the deaths of the iraqi citizens because it politically matches their agenda(s). and to further add to your point, why is it that none of these protesters mourn the loss of the innocent people killed in the marketplace by indiscriminate suicide bombings by al queda and other internal terrorist groups? speaking of which, al queda is on the out and out because now the sunni/shiite terrorists are getting knocked off by the hardcore al queda guys.

it never ceases to amaze me how many of these college students do not critically think beyond what the signs on their posters say.

bob

[Texas Jim]

Until they have one on their own campus. and there isn't a thing that they can do about it.... say like today.......TJ

[anthony1]

you should put a sign that say " this should represent those who died innocently on 9/11....in case you forgot. "

Try going vacation in Iran or Afghanistan and see if they let you do this....that's what we're fighting for.

folks don't understand that people around the world look to us as big brother of justice...like it or not. We can not just sit still and let things happen. It may not be on our soil...oh wait, it was on our soil....9/11. There's poeple out there that wants to take us out. Sure we can wait for them to take some of us out first...( you can get in front of me anytime )..(wait, they did) but we need to take them out first. LET"S GO KICK SOME A**!

[Peter]

With respect to a counter thing, my buddies made "Straight Pride" shirts during gay pride week. They are banned for life from the Michigan Tech Student Union.

Thats rather humurous that they made those shirts. That should not be any reason to ban them though.


This is a knee jerk reaction.
Having worked in a campus PD for the last 6 years I can tell you that a large percentage of the time, an opinion that is controversial will get attention and protection, constitutional rights and all that crap. Something like the t-shirts are quickly labeled as a "hate" motivated activity. Now someone gets all butt-hurt and something "HAS TO BE DONE"

It's just the nature of a college campus... choose a controversial and POPULAR topic to advocate for and you'll be protected. The large majority of people are indifferent and nothing happens. Choose one that is more conservative and UNPOPULAR and out come the vocal minority that make their complaints. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

[ecchamberlin]

Peter interesting choice of words, "butt hurt" for the people who would have an issue with a straight pride t-shirt. LOL

More intersting though is the point of view of someone who deals with this every day. Never considered the need to protect controversial/unpopular opinions on a campus but I am sure it is the safe thing to do.

[Peter]

Peter interesting choice of words, "butt hurt" for the people who would have an issue with a straight pride t-shirt. LOL


:D
Okay, yeah I didn't see that.
Usually with most campuses something like this doesn't really get that much attention because people are accustomed to seeing it on a campus. It's only when someone has a counter rally that's going to attract more attention because it's going to really hurt people's feelings - that's when complaints are generated.

Nobody's feelings are hurt during gay pride type of situations or anti-war demonstrations. But get someone out there that is demonstrating anything that can be *remotely* identified as hate is going to get called in. Someone once saw an effigy hanged from a tree with absolutely NO identifier. There was nothing to identify the effigy and it got called in as a hate crime.

Granted, there are very legitimate calls that are made all the time but some people are so sensitive that I don't think I'd be surprised for whatever might be called in anymore.

[fustercluck]

Were I so inclined, I would create and display contiguous to their protest and in massive font this quote by John Stewart Mill:

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.

There are other quips and catch phrases to compete with Mr Mill's perception which are heaved upon us by the leftists and the cowards addressing war, but true principles when in contrast to lies and distortions always remain victorious as considered by reasonable and sensible individuals

[ecchamberlin]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.



That is an awesome quote. I teach at the Center for Naval Leadership in San Diego and have 24 new E5/E6 students every Monday. Obviously the topic of war and reasons comes up with each class. I will be working that quote into my lessons starting this week. Most of us in the service, serve for that exact motivation but I have never seen it worded so well.

Mr Mills is very well spoken! I will be looking him up as well. Thanks Fuster!

[fustercluck]

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.



That is an awesome quote. I teach at the Center for Naval Leadership in San Diego and have 24 new E5/E6 students every Monday. Obviously the topic of war and reasons comes up with each class. I will be working that quote into my lessons starting this week. Most of us in the service, serve for that exact motivation but I have never seen it worded so well.

Mr Mills is very well spoken! I will be looking him up as well. Thanks Fuster!


No sir, THANK YOU! Please, would you also pass to your students my, and the family Fuster's, gratitude for their sacrifice and service to our country. They stand between us and those who would do us harm. We are forever in their debt.

[ecchamberlin]

I'll do that.

Current service men and women enjoy a very simple concept that Vietnam servicemn did not. It is possible to be pro troops and still not agree with the adminstrations policies. It seems like in the 60's and 70's they were inseperable.

That is not so say that we are not all about what we are doing. We are! But, we do enjoy a very positive amount of feedback and support for our efforts even from those civilians who do not support the mission. That is a new concept for our generation.

Infact my wife Jody just flew out this past Friday on her way to the desert for 7 months to work in a field surgical hospital. While waiting for the plane to arrive, be loaded, crewed and finally board, there were local citizens who prepared and served a buffet dinner for 180 troops. Things like this make it all worth while. Amazing country we live in!