It's more drama

[BruceTS]

I've been having so much fun with Jerry Zaiden, one of the owners of Camburg in a thread at TTORA

http://www.ttora.com/forum/showthread.php?t=81953&page=2

A bit of a rundown on who I haven't told about what I've done. The thread there started off about a bent Tundra axle and the mod needed to use with a long travel kit. It took a turn slightly off topic when someone posted that Camburg kit doesn't need to use a modified axle. Well the thread goes back a fort if you can or can't. I already knew that they could but with a trade off compared to how Total Chaos designed theirs. On page 2 post #59 jzaiden finally makes a comment


We get more compression and droop. The TC kit does NOT get more droop. We do get more wheel travel but we claim 13. This is strapped and bumped not metal to metal. Metal to metal we get more than 13.

After these comments and a few more I decided it was time to drop da bomb....... my next few replies went unanswered but finally he comments


It looks like you are binding the crap out of everything getting that 15+ inches of wheel travel... lol This guy has no clue what so ever..........

more fun to come, that or he realized he made a huge mistake trying to challenge me when I have all the proof.

[neliconcept]

i see no binding at all in that last picture of your axle at 18 degrees was it? cant remember the number

you can see how he goes off a tangent that he really isnt answering your question nor giving an exact intelligent response.

but i def wont say anything because im sure as hell no smarter then anyone in the entire LT section.

[Ric]

TTORA :shake: thats all Im gonna say about that (Forest Gump)

[AxleIke]

LOL Bruce,

It's frustrating arguing with idiots. Good luck.

[BruceTS]

Finally he responded and answered exactly how I expected him to, so I nuked him..... :angel:

hehe I'm still holding and Ace up my sleeve if he persist. Photos of an improperly set-up camburg built 4Runner. Yep that's right they even have a picture of it in their website. FearToy's old rig....

[BruceTS]

Dang Blake you sure are stirring the pot.......hehe

I already have my next response typed up, just waiting for the right moment to post it..... :king:

it's too funny how many people blindly follow someone because or his purported reputation and can't see the obvious truth.

[neliconcept]

i dont know Jerrys rep, but i can spot bull### a mile away. i figured id post something

[mastacox]

A very informative read indeed... When project Baja-Runner gets into full swing, I thought it would be getting modified axles and the Camburg kit, but now I'm not so sure... :headscratch: I need to do some catch-up on my LT info apparently.

[Texas Jim]

Finally he responded and answered exactly how I expected him to, so I nuked him..... :angel:

hehe I'm still holding and Ace up my sleeve if he persist. Photos of an improperly set-up camburg built 4Runner. Yep that's right they even have a picture of it in their website. FearToy's old rig....


Bruce, you have way to much time on your hands.....LOL Now get a shovel and greet the President, he's comming your way to see the fire.....I think he'll be bringing, weenies, marshmellows, and Hershey bars..... :banana: :camping: :laugh: TJ

[BruceTS]

Bruce, you have way to much time on your hands.....LOL


That's what happens when your jobsite is shutdown due to the situation in our area

[Tanto]

I have been watching that thread since the get-go, Bruce.

All I can say is that some of those guys hang on a reputation and I think they've seen photos of you crawling in the rocks so they think "there's no way a guy who rock crawls could possibly know a thing or two about a suspensions setup".

Just my thoughts. The battle of Camburg vs. Total Chaos will probably never die. http://www.ttora.com/forum/images/smilies/jack.gif

[BruceTS]

The funny thing aobut it is I have full control on the direction that thread goes. I have already anticipated Jerry's next move and have pictures and proof ready to go. I'm letting him dig a deeper hole before I post about the ability of the stock steering joint, it can handle 30 degrees of droop before binding. So there is no binding at full droop, yet he insist it's the limiting factor. What he won't concede is the limiting factor is the stock Tundra axle. I'm just waiting for his pictures, then I'll really screw with him.

[BruceTS]

couldn't wait any longer and posted the proof....hehe, now we'll see him try to double talk his way out of this one..... :rofl:

[BruceTS]

too funny one guy finally posted a picture at full droop with the Camburg set-up and it so obvious that it doesn't droop as far. Then someone else posted a TC kit drooped....LOL

Can't wait to see Jerrys reply........ just wonder what kind of magic he's gonna produce to make his kit droop further with stock axles :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Tanto]

If the kits were judged by how well-adapted they were for rockcrawling, I could take a picture of one of my TC lower control arms that has a big scrape right where the Camburg arms have the big gap.

[BruceTS]

Jerry finally posted!


Ok to end this with "PICTURE PROOF" Here is a picture....

Now if our kit gets more droop because our better designed upper adapter allows more angle, to the point where the stock steering binds but our upper adapter does not with STOCK TOYOTA TUNDRA AXLES. Whould't that mean we get more droop? I would think so!
Like I have said we have seen all these kits first hand and we KNOW our kit gets more travel... Bruce you said it your self...

"The limiting factor has always been the Upper uniball bottoms out first, nothing else binds..."

Well in a CAMBURG kit this is not the case. Our upper uniball does not bind, the axles do not bind... The steering will max out at full droop because we use all the possible travel. If we used modified axles it would not help because the stock Tundra axles work great and we get more droop!

http://www.camburg.com/images/tacomadroop.jpg

Ok to breakdown his response

first he tries to relate how his uniball adapter gets more angle to more droop.... so far from the truth! Now for a bit of smoke an mirrors..... the picture he posted shows excessive negative camber. It appears to be in the 3+ degree range at full droop. What does this mean at ride height it would be close to 4+ degrees. Ok why was it done, simple to fool the eye into thinking that the upper joint circled is near maxed out and to prove his point that the steering is binding as well. Now I did post pictures of a Stock Tundra axle that will go 18 degrees safely, but binding at 20 degrees. In the picture he posted it appears to be at 20+ degrees, but too difficult to tell without a better reference point, either way there is still less droop than what I currently have.
Then he tries to pull a fast one and say his kit wouldn't benefit from a modified axle, but thats not what I asked him, I know his kit can use a stock axle, since he's limited the droop in the design, I said compared to a Total chaos kit with a modified axle, but a nice try at switching things around. So he has no excuse later in saying he misunderstood me, I repeated myself in one reply like 6 times in bold type.

The I like the way he takes one of my quotes out of text, what he don't know is my uniball adapters have been modified to achieve more droop to the point that everything binds at nearly the same time.

Then he goes off on a tangent, when I caught the fact there is so much negative camber, then tries to justify it by posting pictures of Trophy trucks with negative camber at full droop and tries to bash my set-up because I have positive camber at full droop. News flash! my 4Runner is my daily driver and the camber has to be close to 0 degrees at ride height, mine so happens to be almost 1 degree, but at droop it does go positive, but it's less than a half degree, not even noticable without a measuring device.

Oh well, the thread has attraceted a$$hats that have no clue on suspension tech, but are mad that I'm using their idol as a whipping boy.

Now I'm just waiting for him to reply.... I'm gonna really tick him off when I tell him his current kit is a virtual copy of Total Chaos, but uses boxed lower A-Arms. How I'll do this is with pictures and measurments of both kits side by side.

As for Camburg being a leader in innovation... LOL! they copied the uniball upper A-Arm design of Total Chaos. Guess what they also took TC's idea about the use of Tundra axles and running dual shock mounts, all stuff Total Chaos innovated....