Electronics wizard's council please....

[fustercluck]

So I think I want to buy a 42" or larger LCD TV for the fam (Okay, it's mostly for me :flipoff:). We have gone since 03 without TV, but I love to watch DVDs (action, lots of guns :angel:). Since we gave up tubage, the new plasma and LCD TV technology has become the standard. I don't know much about it and I need a quick tutorial as I may be making this purchase on Monday....

Which is better: LCD or Plasma?
Is Polaroid a good brand or should I stick with something else?
Why do some TV brands models look sharper than others side by side?


In advance, thanks for your time... :clap:

[YotaFun]

Just go with a 52' Sony Bravia Flat Panel HDTV :flipoff: :D
We got one the day before Thanksgiving and watched Live Free of Die Hard,
and man, felt like you were right in the movie, and with the surround sound system available from Sony to go with it, its like your right there, you can here every single sound in the scene.

Plasma is getting outdated imo,
LCD seems to be the trend these days.
SONY!!!!
Some TV brands have a higher resolution then other or use different technology.
For example our Bravia uses progressive scan, which doesn't interlace the picture, which if I understand it correctly is putting out a single shot at a high rate of speed to make it more clear?

Here is a link I pulled up with a simple search:
http://www.lcdtvbuyingguide.com/lcdtv-plasmavslcd.shtml

The rest of the jiberish up top was just my .02 about a particular tv.
But def something to consider!

[fustercluck]

Thanks Avy. I'm partial to Sony as a matter of habit. Most of my electronics have been Sony, but I worry about blind brand loyalty when large quantities of money hang in the balance. Is Sony the best bet for a relative novice with a discerning nature such as myself?

I'll read the info on your link. Thanks again!

[Bob98SR5]

clusterfuster,

wait til reggie00 chimes in. the man does this for a living

bob

[fustercluck]

Holding breath....

[Cebby]

My .02

I have read up a lot on the subject and have spent a good amount of time looking at various units side by side. My take....

LCD looks brighter than Plasma to me.
LCD backlight bulbs can be replaced; when the Plasma is done, it's done.
The Sony Bravia is the nicest looking LCD display I've come across. 2nd Place would be Samsung.
You want 1080, not 720.

[YotaFun]

Mike hit it on the nail pretty much Mr. Fuster.
1080 is the best you can get I believe at this point.
Also every now and then you have to recharge the plasma in the TV,
I remember my chiropractor having to do this (long story short I lost a bet and had to detail his Porsche, fun to drive though. :D)

[waskillywabbit]

I just bought a big screen TV and I did a lot of research before I shelled out $2K on something I don't even watch. :D

I got a Samsung 46" LCD 1080 15,000:1 contrast. It was on sale about $800 off on Black Friday so I broke my rule and went and got it. Gets here Monday. Now the PS3 will be super duper awesome Christmas morning. :flipoff:

I am partial to Sony myself but the Samsung was $750 cheaper for the same product.

I like the DLPs but you can't hang them on the wall and ours is going over the fireplace; plasmas die and cannot be repaired.

:guitar:

[reggie 00]

Sorry was wrenching all day and was getting ready to go Pheasant hunting in the AM,

Plasma/LCD???

Both have good and bad.

Plasma better black levels (which is a good thing)

LCD will look better in a bright room.

Plasma (if i remember right) best viewing angle.

LCD no worries w/ Video games. Most Plasmas now do employ a Pixel shift feature which makes em VG friendly.

Sony comments.
Yes they make a nice set. But you are paying a little bit more just for the name.

Good call on the samsung they make some good stuff. They do have multiple lines (like everyone) but even the base models look pretty good.

We run Sharp Aquos LCDs. In 4 years now i have only seen one go bad. Have one hanging to my left right now.

Samsung is comparably priced with mostly the same features.

We dont carry Sony but we never have a problem matching a Sharp to a Sony.

Polaroid. NO.

Customer W thought he would just pick up this inexpensive Polaroid display and not check with us. Went bad 9 months later. Got paid to put it up, take it down, and put up a new one. Same with Vizeo have had customers pick em up and we have put up 4 and taken down 3.

You really get what you pay for in this stuff. Stick to the well known stuff. We run a "budget line" but the parent company makes a bunch of computer monitors or something been working out ok. But they lack little features that in a Home Theater are really nice to have. Like Discrete codes for Universal remotes.

Why do they look different side by side.

Well they have different price margins is why.

TV A sells for 2800. Cost 1900. Profit= 900
TV B sells for 2600. Cost 2100. Profit= 500

That Display Wabbit got, that store didn't loose a dime the manufacturer floated them a end of model price to flush the system for the new stuff.

You want a 1080p 1920X1080. thats true HD.

It may say HD but unless both numbers are equal or greater than 1080 its not.

this number to be as small as possible QS<6ms.

Most LCDs run 4-8ms
Most Plasmas run 2-4ms

Now DLP

if it doesnt have to go on the wall, (remember a GOOD mount is not a couple of bucks. we use flat non moving mounts that start at 100, a full blown double arm 26" throw articulating mount is around 600.) a DLP set is the way to go. They do not have the viewing angle of a LCD or Plasma but they can be relamped. In most cases you can get quite the jump in screen size for the same cost as a smaller Flat panel. Ie 42" LCD = 63-72" DLP

If possible try to see the display in as many ways as you can. Bring in you fav movie and make them play it. Look at regular TV, remember the majority of you TV stations are not that good looking HD stuff they are showing you.

Make them show you the color adjustments. They shouldn't be cranked all the way up. Some factories do that to make it look better in the Very bright sales floor of Best buy. Some times they get messed with to make them look less desirable.

Ask a bazillion ?'s its your money. Stuff changes so fast we and lots of us HT guys have a hard time keeping up, trainings only come once a year or so, The magazines are a good help but only so much is retained. I am by no means an absolute expert but we do pretty good. We have weeded thru a lot of things and have found out what works where. But it is by no means an absolute truth.

One last thing.

generally the rule of thumb is 10% of display cost= cabling cost.
If you can wait i can get you stuff @ cost and ship it out. if not Do Not Buy Monster. they are over priced and you are buying a name. Digital is Digital.

High def is two parts Picture and Sound. You'll need to step the game up to a 5.1 system soon. No HT in a box please.

If you have to do BLu ray or HD, do a Playstation 3 or a Xbox 360.
Dual format players are good but not all of them will play all the features on a disk like the regular player would do.

Regular DVD, get a nice up converting player. We run at least with a Denon DVD-1740. I up converts to 1080. Looks good. ( have one in my Bedroom)

We are doing a Christmas party on Monday but if you want PM for # and call if you have ?'s

Good luck

and take your time and shop wisely.

Oh ya, if you really want to you can save some money by going with Diaplays that only go up to 720p or 1080i. They are not the sharpest by todays standards, but common if you are use to looking at a 480i CRT TV for who knows how long its going to look good and will work for you for quite a while. No need to catch the Jones's really.

[oly884]

listen to Reg, he knows his stuff!!!

He helped me get my Samsung 50" DLP (he suggested the right stuff first, but my budget was for this TV)

[fustercluck]

Thanks a ton guys! Sorry I haven't come back to this for a while...I've been reassembling the runner IN THE FREEZING COLD!!!! All I have left is the headliner and some details like. seat belts etc.

Anyway, Reg, it sounds like you have the answer to any question I could generate. Mrs Fuster and I are discussing screen size (yes, it does matter :flipoff:) I might like to get one like the Wabbit has.

[calrockx]

I've got a Samsung LCD 67" HDTV 1080i. It's nice, Samsung knows their stuff.

[reggie 00]

what did you find?

[TDiddy]

We've had a 50" Pioneer Elite plasma for almost a year now and couldn't be happier. We were also considering a Panasonic at the time, don't remember the model # but it was a highly recommended tv.

Reggie helped me out alot too, sounds like good advice! The Sharp Aquos 1080p LCD was just hitting the market around this time last year I think. We still went with the Pioneer plasma even though its 1080i. Yes 1080p is true HD, but don't be surprised if you can't see a difference in picture quality (PQ) between those two types. It all comes down to what looks best to you, and for us nothing came close to that Pioneer Elite. They are definitely worth a look if there is a dealer in your area!

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/v3/pg/kuro/demo/full/0,,2076_310069651,00.html

[fustercluck]

I'm teetering between the Sharp Auquos and the Sony Brav...wherever it is. I think I'd like it to be around 42-50 inches...Reg, I may have some specific questions to ask in the next bit. Can I PM you about this?

[reggie 00]

Sure

WE dont carry Sony cause you have to sell quite a bit to get them to sell to you.
But we have never had a problem matching a Sharp to a Sony. Usually cheaper too.

For Sharp the 64 is the entry, 82 mid grade, 92 top.
Examples:
LC-42D64U
LC-46D82U
LC-52D92U

Look for a fast response time and a large Contrast Ratio.

[Robinhood4x4]

We just picked up a sharp 46" 46D64U on black friday. Snagged the last one from our circuit city.

Anyway, we like it. We're not exactly connoisseurs of video entertainment, but we're happy with the HD quality and the Standard Definition quality. Obviously, the SD shows up more grainy than the HD, but it's not bad.

[reggie 00]

We just picked up a sharp 46" 46D64U on black friday. Snagged the last one from our circuit city.

Anyway, we like it. We're not exactly connoisseurs of video entertainment, but we're happy with the HD quality and the Standard Definition quality. Obviously, the SD shows up more grainy than the HD, but it's not bad.



Make sure you adjust the colors and contrast.
Sometimes you inadvertly crank up stuff and it makes SD pic quality less than desirable.

I turned down my contrast and brightness and got a much better pic. Play around as i usually let my Brother adjust the display.

That is also the reason i try to get people to have them show you SD programs too.

The 82 and 92 series displays do better. But unless your display has a scaler in it (see Fujitsu) you wont see HD quality.

[SD4runner]

Just got a 42" Samsung LCD. I really like it.

[mastacox]

Ya, I too am trying to select an LCD TV. We're looking in the $800-$1200 range (which limits us somewhat) in either the 32" or 37". Problem is, I'm deadset on getting a 1080p (because it will be used as my computer monitor), and even the 32" 1080p TV's go for a little bit more than our budget allows... while the 37 inchers are way outside it.

Maybe if I can find a really good deal on an open item at Best Buy :king: In any case, we're waiting till after christmas in case there are some good post-rush or new years sales.

EDIT- one thing I have noticed, prices on 42-50" Tv's are really good at Sam's Club!

[reggie 00]

here we have used these for computer and video displays

http://www.target.com/gp/browse.html/601-2447472-9042559?node=14157081&CPNG=electronics&AFID=googlestr&LNM=olevia_tv&LID=24442790&ref=tgt_adv_XSGT3025

or we have a customer who we put this in for he is into combat flying games pretty bad. Worked real good for him

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelDetail?displayTab=O&storeId=11201&catalogId=13051&itemId=176432&catGroupId=14624&surfModel=TH-37PH10UK

there are these:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8590189&type=product&id=1190678017262

might have to throw down for a HDMI video card to get that picture your looking for as i dont think the 62 has VGA in.

Good luck

[mastacox]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8590189&type=product&id=1190678017262

might have to throw down for a HDMI video card to get that picture your looking for as i dont think the 62 has VGA in.

Good luck


Yeah I have my eye on that Sharp, worse comes to worse we save a little bit more and buy it in Jan.

There are DVI->HDMI converters, so all I need is one of those cords because my video card has DVI out. I think HDMI is essentially a glorified DVI plug that also carries audio. I don't need the audio component, because I have Klipsch 4.1's on my computer.

EDIT- A cable like this would work nicely: DVI to HDMI conversion cable at Best Buy (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8426223&st=dvi+to+hdmi+adapter&lp=4&type=product&cp=1&id=1181832625335)

[reggie 00]

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8590189&type=product&id=1190678017262

might have to throw down for a HDMI video card to get that picture your looking for as i dont think the 62 has VGA in.

Good luck


Yeah I have my eye on that Sharp, worse comes to worse we save a little bit more and buy it in Jan.

There are DVI->HDMI converters, so all I need is one of those cords because my video card has DVI out. I think HDMI is essentially a glorified DVI plug that also carries audio. I don't need the audio component, because I have Klipsch 4.1's on my computer.


I havent always had luck with the DVI-HDMI cord going from computer to display. I actually just tried it on mine the other day. I couldnt get the LCD to show the pic right. It might have just been my Video card, but we had the problem once before too. (didnt give it to much time) Usually we just spec a a display with VGA so there is no worries trying to match the computer res and refresh to the displays native ones. im pretty sure the sharp 64 line doesnt have VGA (sharp website was down last night when i was checking) but i did spec an 82 series the other day to do VGA.

That industrial Pany looks real good i was surprised how good the game looked after we got everything dialed in. Our customer actually found it for us as he looked around a few gamer forums and they where saying to get it. Its all over for around 900.

[mastacox]

I havent always had luck with the DVI-HDMI cord going from computer to display. I actually just tried it on mine the other day. I couldnt get the LCD to show the pic right. It might have just been my Video card, but we had the problem once before too. (didnt give it to much time) Usually we just spec a a display with VGA so there is no worries trying to match the computer res and refresh to the displays native ones. im pretty sure the sharp 64 line doesnt have VGA (sharp website was down last night when i was checking) but i did spec an 82 series the other day to do VGA.

That industrial Pany looks real good i was surprised how good the game looked after we got everything dialed in. Our customer actually found it for us as he looked around a few gamer forums and they where saying to get it. Its all over for around 900.


Unfortunately, that industrial Pany's resolution (1024x720) is far too low for my tastes. I've even been ruling out 720p Tv's and their native resolution is 1366x768. On a screen as big as we're talking, if it's being used as the computer's only monitor, 1080p (1920x1080) is the only way to go IMO. I want sharp resolution!

I'll keep the DVI-HDMI problems in mind, but I don't forsee any trouble. My brother plugs his computer into my parent's 46" Sony Bravia all the time, no trouble. It's probably most dependent on being able to get drivers for the TV that lets Windows know what its working with.

[fustercluck]

Does anyone expect prices to move down after Christmas?

[reggie 00]

Does anyone expect prices to move down after Christmas?


I honestly dont remember what happened last year.

But the '08 stuff came out this summer and early fall. so it wont be because of new models for another 6 months at least.

[mastacox]

Does anyone expect prices to move down after Christmas?


Well, I'm hoping that prices may fall in post-christmas or new-year sales... but I have nothing to back that up with other than hopes and dreams :D

More than anything, I'm thinking Best Buy will have more open items after the holidays from returns and such. I'm stuck with Best Buy because I have two $500 gift cards for the place :king:

[fustercluck]

Does anyone expect prices to move down after Christmas?


Well, I'm hoping that prices may fall in post-christmas or new-year sales... but I have nothing to back that up with other than hopes and dreams :D

More than anything, I'm thinking Best Buy will have more open items after the holidays from returns and such. I'm stuck with Best Buy because I have two $500 gift cards for the place :king:


Well send them to me and free yourself of obligation! :D

[mastacox]

Well send them to me and free yourself of obligation! :D


I'll sell them to ya! Low low price of $525 each! Free shipping!











:hillbill:

[fustercluck]

Hehe. I knew that was coming. :thumbup:

[Seanz0rz]

fuster, thats a good deal, you should take it.

[mastacox]

I heard a rumor that prices on TV's drop after the Super Bowl... any truth to this?

[Lee]

hey reggie whats your opinion of LG?

my parents got an LG 1080 at costco for like 1299 a couple months ago, and i was impressed with it.

if/when i get a flat screen, ill go lcd 1080 SAMSUNG all the way... :)

[reggie 00]

I have only seen LG in the stores and Magazines.
They too are one of the elitists (like Sony)who wont open the market to smaller vendors.
Oliver Stone has i think 2 LG displays in his house. I like the Integrated DVR in the one display.

LG should be good to go.
we usually steer clear of the much cheaper ones. Westinghouse,Phillips/Magnovox,ect.



I heard a rumor that prices on TV's drop after the Super Bowl... any truth to this?


Usually you can find some good deals on returned sets. Cause people get em watch the game and then return em.

All the 08 stuff is already out. shouldn't be any big model changes for a little while.

Store sales?? they are when they are. Our prices stay pretty steady we dont have other avenues to make up the "sale cost" as the big box retailers do. Of course they cant match the personal services you get from a custom shop.
The overall cost of a whole system is usually the same between a custom shop and a BB retailer. Even though a few things are a few bucks cheaper.

[fustercluck]

Well I went in to get a 50" Sony XBR and they were out of them. They did have a Samsung 46"1080p that was discounted about 1000.00. Though the hertz rating was lower, I toppled for the deal. Since the Jr. Fusters are delinquents around this time of year and would likely find a prize that big, I left it at the store to pick up on Monday....Can't wait to play with it.

[reggie 00]

Which Samsung did you get?

Not to cause concern but why was it discounted?

Floor model or return?
Manufacturer sale?



Hows it going in?

Wall mount? using the Stand?
Are you set for Cables?
If you have a game console you'll want to hit Game Stop and pick Component adapter to make the picture really nice. Unless you got a PS3 or Xbox360 then you have far better options.

Make sure you hook up everything you can with the best connection available from that device.

Preferable order Best to Worst:
HDMI
DVI
Component
S Video
Composite
Coax


If you run short on connections a trick we use is have the AV receiver do the video switching as well as provide the surround sound.
Makes it so you only have to run 1 cable to the display. Just make sure the receiver can up convert the lesser connections not all can do that.


If you haven't realized just yet you have barely scratched the surface as to what possibilities of home entertainment.
Wait till you get into the surround sound part.

If you haven't make sure to put in for you TV provider upgrade.
If you have been a customer for a while most will do it for free. If not jump ship and go with the competition. Now is also a good time to get DVR set ups.

[fustercluck]

Which Samsung did you get?

Not to cause concern but why was it discounted?

Floor model or return?
Manufacturer sale?



Hows it going in?

Wall mount? using the Stand?
Are you set for Cables?
If you have a game console you'll want to hit Game Stop and pick Component adapter to make the picture really nice. Unless you got a PS3 or Xbox360 then you have far better options.

Make sure you hook up everything you can with the best connection available from that device.

Preferable order Best to Worst:
HDMI
DVI
Component
S Video
Composite
Coax


If you run short on connections a trick we use is have the AV receiver do the video switching as well as provide the surround sound.
Makes it so you only have to run 1 cable to the display. Just make sure the receiver can up convert the lesser connections not all can do that.


If you haven't realized just yet you have barely scratched the surface as to what possibilities of home entertainment.
Wait till you get into the surround sound part.

If you haven't make sure to put in for you TV provider upgrade.
If you have been a customer for a while most will do it for free. If not jump ship and go with the competition. Now is also a good time to get DVR set ups.


Dang man, I thought I was done!!! :D

I wish you were here to point at what you are discussing. Most of that list is greek to me. I'll be up all night trying to figure it all out and connect everything. I wanted to surprise everyone in the morning, but if I don't assemble it and run it before Christmas eve, I'll proly need something I don't have.

The manufacturer and the store were running a 'promotion'. They gave me 30 days to return it if I were disatisfied. The TV is in an unopened box. personally, I think sales have been slower that expected this year and they were trying to move some inventory....seems to have worked. They had sold almost all of the alotted product when I stumbled in.

So is HDMI a type of cable?

We were going to use the stand, but have decided on a wall mount.

[reggie 00]

Out the box you'll be ok.

Might have to attach a few screws to secure the stand.

HDMI is a cable type. Looks like a big USB connector.
http://www.proconnect.org/pro_hdmi.html

You will have three types of wall mounts:
Flat, Tilt, Articulating.

Check out this site:
www.sanus.com

We pretty much just use them. There are others out there but we are trusting these things to hold up alot of money.

Game cable:
http://www.gamestop.com/product.asp?product%5Fid=801798

Up converting receiver:
http://www.usa.denon.com/ProductDetails/3631.asp
Check out page 8 of the owners manual for explanation.

Are we having fun yet or what?
And if you need help i am usually here till around midnight.

[fustercluck]

Thanks Reg, I'll give assembly a try and when I fail, you'll get a shout out :hillbill:

[EWAYota]

I've read this a few times trying to aim my Mom in the right direction though she went her own way and seems to be pleased with her purchase.

Quick question though. Not knowing all the possible # combo's, but understanding that 1080P is where its at, can you noticably see a differance between 1080P, 1080i and what ever other numbers are available for HD (I think the tv my Mom purchased is a 720). And is there a starting point in screen size that 1080P (1920x1080) starts at, meaning only available in screen sizes larger than say, 37"?

I'm sure my urge to purchase a HDTV will continue to rise as my bank account increases in weight, but for now I'm just trying to research as much now as I can so that I'm not cramming when the time has come. If I were to get one now, I'd be looking for a 37", though I know I'd be happier with something a tad larger.

[reggie 00]

I've read this a few times trying to aim my Mom in the right direction though she went her own way and seems to be pleased with her purchase.

That's all that really counts



Quick question though. Not knowing all the possible # combo's, but understanding that 1080P is where its at, can you noticeably see a difference between 1080P, 1080i and what ever other numbers are available for HD (I think the TV my Mom purchased is a 720).

The difference you will notice will really depend on the person.
The benefit of a "p" display will be the picture will not appear to have jagged edges. This is most noticed in slower moving objects.

Before 1080p displays we usually used 720p instead of 1080i.

Going from a standard tube TV to a 720p display will definitely look good. And depending on your level of need the cost difference between a 720p and a 1080p may not make sense. Go 720 and take the savings to apply toward a 5.1 system or up converting DVD player.
If you have your sights on a Blu ray player, then you will want to go 1080p.




And is there a starting point in screen size that 1080P (1920x1080) starts at, meaning only available in screen sizes larger than say, 37"?

Depends on the manufacturer. but usually yes



I'm sure my urge to purchase a HDTV will continue to rise as my bank account increases in weight, but for now I'm just trying to research as much now as I can so that I'm not cramming when the time has come. If I were to get one now, I'd be looking for a 37", though I know I'd be happier with something a tad larger.


dont discount DLP displays. New ones now use LEDs and a lot of new tech since they first came out. you can usually get a larger display compared to a Wall hung flat screen.

Also Hitachi is coming out with a 1.5" deep flat screen this year. The 37" is supposed to weight in around 26#.