Pros and Cons of Manual Hubs

[Ric]

hey all,
whats the Pros and Cons of manuals hubs ?
The reason I ask is, coming back from Vail on Sunday morning, it was nice, just to throw it into 4Hi, and not worry about "locking in" the hubs, I know that without manual hubs, the CVs spin while driving, but are there any other Pros or Cons ?????
"Teach me Master" :D

[mastacox]

If you break a CV shaft, or your front diff, manual hubs allow you to disengage the front altogether and still drive home; whereas if you have stock "flanges," the CV's have to be completely removed, and I'm not sure if you can drive without CV's up front (stuff may come apart?). Also, with less wear up front since nothing is turning up front you CV boots will last longer. Also, with manual hubs you can just leave them locked for shift on the fly 4x4.

For cons, the biggest one I can think of is supposedly with 3rd gen 4runners and 95.5-04 Tacomas manual hubs also means you're more likely to break something... The hub itself isn't weaker but the splined shaft coming off the CV is. That being said, I know AlbuquerqueJim ran manual hubs with 315's for quite a while. I wonder if he has any input? Also manual hubs conversions/donors are expensive (around $500-700 I think) and difficult to find.

[calrockx]

I like the pros of manual hubs.

As for that reported weakness...yeah, I've heard that too. But I tell ya, I've wheeled my junk fairly hard, and haven't broken a CV yet. I broke a couple pre-manualswap. If you're careful and have a front locker to help things out, you can get by pretty well with the "weaker" axles.

Also, it's nice to still have 4wd on-the-fly. If I think AWD/4WD is a possibility for the drive ahead, I'll lock the hubs before I start my trip. Easy fo sheezy.

[neliconcept]

I like the pros of manual hubs.

As for that reported weakness...yeah, I've heard that too. But I tell ya, I've wheeled my junk fairly hard, and haven't broken a CV yet. I broke a couple pre-manualswap. If you're careful and have a front locker to help things out, you can get by pretty well with the "weaker" axles.

Also, it's nice to still have 4wd on-the-fly. If I think AWD/4WD is a possibility for the drive ahead, I'll lock the hubs before I start my trip. Easy fo sheezy.


yeah as Charles pointed out, just lock em before you think youll hit up the snow.

Ric when we had the first snow come through. I drove around in fort collins in 2wd with the hubs locked, of course in my setup i have to stop in Neutral first to put it in 4hi, but took me less then 2 seconds to do so, then i did a 4wd drag out of the box :)

[Ric]

Thanks for the replies guys, let me get this right (please correct me if Im wrong)

If I went with Manual Hubs, I can infact "lock" them, and drive in 2wheel drive ? then when needed throw it into 4Hi/Lo.
If thats true, then wouldnt it pretty much like it is now ? but once they are UNlocked, theres no wear on the CVs ?
Thanks for the help :thumbup:

[Seanz0rz]

well the pros and cons change if you have to do a swap (big con, very expensive)

[neliconcept]

well the pros and cons change if you have to do a swap (big con, very expensive)


not if you do it junkyard style.

i could get Ric a non add axle tube for the right side, then get hubs, man hub wheel bearings, and CVs for less then 350 bucks.

[neliconcept]

Ric difference between ADD and man hubs being locked is the diff is not rotating in ADD. everything is moving with the hubs locked though.

but if you want to do it, ill help you find parts.

[Seanz0rz]

i still think that the mpg gain is negligible, and i dont know of any one breaking these cvs with normal driving.

for me thats 350 i could put towards a winch or something else.

[neliconcept]

i still think that the mpg gain is negligible, and i dont know of any one breaking these cvs with normal driving.

for me thats 350 i could put towards a winch or something else.


probablly is negligable, but its not breaking the CVs its premature boot wear is why most ppl convert,

i just like knowing, if i broke one side, i can unlock it, lock the front diff and be in 3wd the way out.

[AxleIke]

i just like knowing, if i broke one side, i can unlock it, lock the front diff and be in 3wd the way out.


That is totally dependent on the break.

If you broke inside the hub, or at the bearing, you'd have to remove the axle and plug the hole first. If you broke at the joint, you could do that, but you'd have the axle smacking everything under your truck.

As for pros and cons:

Con: you have to lock them.

Pro: they are better in every sense of the word.

As for weak, I can't comment on warns. Aisins are damn strong.

Also, on a third gen, you are looking at close to an hour to replace an axle on the trail, a hub takes 5 mins.

Lastly, if you can, leave the ADD on there. That is the best set up by far. ADD+Manual hubs. If you can't due to the swap, then so be it, but if at all possible, leave it on.

[neliconcept]

yeah i didnt think about the output shaft in the hub.

[bflooks]

you guys didn't mention that with manual hubs, you can daily drive a vehicle that is locked front and rear with no signs of such until you lock the hubs. this is huge should someone want to run a lockrite or some other lunchbox locker in the front and still have it be a pavement pounder.

[AxleIke]

not in colorado you can't. As you need to be able to run at 40-50 in 4wd.

[BruceTS]

Also, on a third gen, you are looking at close to an hour to replace an axle on the trail, a hub takes 5 mins.

I assume an hour for a manual hub axle, it only takes me 15 minutes to replace a ADD axle.

Con: takes twice as long if not longer to replace a broken axle, especially if the axle breaks inside the hub, sometimes it makes it difficult to slide the axle out.

Pro: if your running an ARB locker, no parts are moving while DD

Con: output shaft is weaker, hub is weaker that ADD design

With all that said I will eventually convert over to manual hubs.......mainly for the bling factor :rofl:

[bflooks]

With all that said I will eventually convert over to manual hubs.......mainly for the bling factor :rofl:







that is perhaps the funniest thing i have heard yet today. HAHAHAHA!

[AxleIke]

Also, on a third gen, you are looking at close to an hour to replace an axle on the trail, a hub takes 5 mins.

I assume an hour for a manual hub axle, it only takes me 15 minutes to replace a ADD axle.

Con: takes twice as long if not longer to replace a broken axle, especially if the axle breaks inside the hub, sometimes it makes it difficult to slide the axle out.

Pro: if your running an ARB locker, no parts are moving while DD

Con: output shaft is weaker, hub is weaker that ADD design

With all that said I will eventually convert over to manual hubs.......mainly for the bling factor :rofl:






Must be an experience thing. Took us well over 2 hours to change an axle on the 97. ADD, driveflanges. No modifications to the axle whatsoever.

Well, there you have it, if you have experience, it takes 15 minutes. Much longer with manual hubs.

[BruceTS]

ADD

too easy jack up truck, remove wheel, remove dust cover, remove 35mm nut, remove 4 spindle bolts.. pull away spindle assy, remove axle assy. install new axle, slide on spindle assy, install 4 bolts, install 35mm nut, install dust cover(optional), install wheel lower truck.....

Manual Hub

remove all those nuts holding manual hub on, get those annoying cone washers out(PITA) remove bolt, remove c-clip etc.... Oh and be careful you don't get dirt inside or lose those tiny parts!


99.9% of the time manual hub not needed, like I said Bling factor......

[Ric]

99.9% of the time manual hub not needed, like I said Bling factor...... I can agree with this, I dont think Ive ever "needed" them, but was thinking if its less wear on the CVs, I may do it, but after seeing what a pain it is to place them when/if they break :headscratch: I dont know, now Im back to where I started, lol.
I very much appreciate everyones thoughts and opinions :thumbup:

Keep them coming.

[AxleIke]

ADD

too easy jack up truck, remove wheel, remove dust cover, remove 35mm nut, remove 4 spindle bolts.. pull away spindle assy, remove axle assy. install new axle, slide on spindle assy, install 4 bolts, install 35mm nut, install dust cover(optional), install wheel lower truck.....

Manual Hub

remove all those nuts holding manual hub on, get those annoying cone washers out(PITA) remove bolt, remove c-clip etc.... Oh and be careful you don't get dirt inside or lose those tiny parts!


99.9% of the time manual hub not needed, like I said Bling factor......


I wasn't arguing with you. I was stating how long it took us, being inexperienced. Perhaps others will take less time.

[RobG]

A Small Pro - Unlocked you have 2WD low (in 4WD low). I use it for backing the trailer into the driveway or other tight uphill spots. Kind of a poor mans twin stick, for 2nd gens anyway where the conversion is relatively cheap.

I've got the inferior Warns locking hubs (2nd gen 4runner) on the truck and haven't broken them yet, I do make a concerted effort to avoid wheel spin on rocks (partly thanks to the 3.0).

[04 Rocko Taco]

A Small Pro - Unlocked you have 2WD low (in 4WD low). I use it for backing the trailer into the driveway or other tight uphill spots. Kind of a poor mans twin stick...

This is what I love about the manual hubs on my '84. 2WD low, poor mans twin sticks, couldnt have said it better myself. :)

[BruceTS]

want 2WD low add a crawler....hehe

[neliconcept]

want 2WD low add a crawler....hehe


or twin stick the case. damn i love 2wd lo. made it so easy to pull into some snow covered parking spaces early in december without getting out to lock the stupid hubs.

oh and my man hub setup, was due in part that i was too lazy to figure out how to put ADD in a 2wd 4runner, so not as much bling for me :)

[Albuquerque Jim]

I can change my Manual Hub CV in 30 mins or less on the trail.

Or, if I can get off the trail in 2 or 3wd I don't have to change it till I want to. Hell, I've run the truck for a month without CV's or a diff when things were broken.

There not just bling, but come in very handy.

[bflooks]

A Small Pro - Unlocked you have 2WD low (in 4WD low). I use it for backing the trailer into the driveway or other tight uphill spots. Kind of a poor mans twin stick, for 2nd gens anyway where the conversion is relatively cheap.

I've got the inferior Warns locking hubs (2nd gen 4runner) on the truck and haven't broken them yet, I do make a concerted effort to avoid wheel spin on rocks (partly thanks to the 3.0).


he can have that with ADD if the did the 20/30 minute wiring for the 2-lo mod.

[BruceTS]

2low mod only works on Tacos

[neliconcept]

2low mod only works on Tacos


i thought it worked for any push button case? or just what i read, didnt know it was only for tacomas

[bflooks]

i believe you are incorrect, bruce. i thought you could do it on the later model 3rd gen 4runners, but that you have to disable the vtrac first. i know lee looked in to this a while back, but i don't recall the result. of course, this is only on the later 3rd gens. i know i could do it on my 98 4runner, but that is because i didn't have any of the electrical bs for my 4wd and tcase.

[d0ubledown]

if youve got the spare cash burning a hole in your pocket, do the hub swap. otherwise, id leave it as is, and just carry spare(s). id rather spend the $$ on a front locker if you dont have one already.

others mentioned most of the pros & cons. i researched this heavily as well a while back Ric, and came to the consensus that the money is better spent elsewhere...like an RD90.

[Ric]

after this weekend, I dont think Ill be doing the Manual Hub thing, Blake had to Lock, Unlock his I think three times. and seems the front locker really didnt help much on the deep snow, (maybe he wasnt aired down enough)Im sure it will ROCK, on the rocks :) but that locking them in, unlocking them, going to another trail, locking them, then unlocking again, to go to another trail, then again, Im sure he was getting tired of it, I know I would.
I appreciate everyones thoughts, sugestions, ideas, opinions and experiances :thumbup:

[neliconcept]

i prob should have left them locked in knowing we wouldnt be driving more then 3 miles or so to each other entrance, but yeah it gets annoying, but if you were able to do man hubs and ADD it would be a perfect setup, would be what you have now except with hubs locked, but when you dont wheel for the week, you could leave em unlocked.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Why always unlock your hubs? as long as your locker in ther front isnt engaged, leave the hubs locked...

[Bighead]

Why always unlock your hubs? as long as your locker in ther front isnt engaged, leave the hubs locked...


Good question. There was no reason he needed to constantly lock and unlock the hubs unless there is some weird issue with his 4WD conversion that dictates it.

[neliconcept]

yeah i know that, im just over protective of my stuff lol.

i did drive today with the hubs locked to see if rides any different at all.

[Bighead]

Blake...did you notice anything different?

[neliconcept]

Blake...did you notice anything different?


not really, but then again i was wishy washy on the snow road anyways.

then having a car nearly tbone me made me not care.

[d0ubledown]

locked hubs is just a flange. the only time youd really want them unlocked is on road. even then...locked hubs on road shouldnt be an issue.

another cool part about manual hubs is having 2L in rwd...for those stop & go traffic jams.

[Ric]

yeah i know that, im just over protective of my stuff lol., thats a VERY good thing to be :thumbup:

[BruceTS]

i believe you are incorrect, bruce. i thought you could do it on the later model 3rd gen 4runners, but that you have to disable the vtrac first. i know lee looked in to this a while back, but i don't recall the result. of course, this is only on the later 3rd gens. i know i could do it on my 98 4runner, but that is because i didn't have any of the electrical bs for my 4wd and tcase.


2 low mod only works on vehicles set-up with push button T-case, if you have a shifter to put it into the low range the mod don't work. The later model 3rd gens have a totally different set-up. The push button engages the awd aspects and not the low range. Low range still needed to be manually shifted. Tacos have a button for 4wd and another for the low range, the mod allows you to put it in the low range without engaging 4wd button first. Unless I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a 3rd gen that was all push button like the Tacos...


HI-JACK.... couldn't let Blake have all the pretty women...... now you'll have to guess who she is :flipoff:

[bflooks]

i believe you are incorrect, bruce. i thought you could do it on the later model 3rd gen 4runners, but that you have to disable the vtrac first. i know lee looked in to this a while back, but i don't recall the result. of course, this is only on the later 3rd gens. i know i could do it on my 98 4runner, but that is because i didn't have any of the electrical bs for my 4wd and tcase.


2 low mod only works on vehicles set-up with push button T-case, if you have a shifter to put it into the low range the mod don't work. The later model 3rd gens have a totally different set-up. The push button engages the awd aspects and not the low range. Low range still needed to be manually shifted. Tacos have a button for 4wd and another for the low range, the mod allows you to put it in the low range without engaging 4wd button first. Unless I'm wrong, but I haven't seen a 3rd gen that was all push button like the Tacos...


HI-JACK.... couldn't let Blake have all the pretty women...... now you'll have to guess who she is :flipoff:



i am not trying to pick a fight here, but i know someone that did this on his 2002 (i believe it is) taco with the jshift case. he was able to do it. i also know that i could have done it on my 98 4runner as well. i believe on these trucks, the mod allows you to bypass the actuator switch. once again though, i could be completely wrong. i stopped caring when i decided i was going dual cases with the pass. drop. i just have to keep the man. hubs unlocked now or look in to twin sticks.

[BruceTS]

My bad, there's another 2low mod that disables the ADD actuator from engaging, so in reality it's going into 4WD but since the coupler doesn't engage, the front diff just spins. Not a true 2low like having dual cases or twin sticks.

[AxleIke]

Well, Blake, I think you were probably being a LITTLE over concerned on that one, but I agree, you should run as little as you can with those baby's locked in, as your CV angles aren't awesome.

Its not that they will fail tommorow, or probably not even next year, but they have that potential.

Anyway, yeah, xwhatever on the others, you really don't need to unlock that much. Really just when you first air down, and then when the day is done.