CBI rear bumpers for 3rd gen 4runners

[neliconcept]

Thought id let everyone know that CBI does make a bumper, not advertised on their site for the 3rd gens, but its built to order, though you dont have to have your 4runner present for them to be built.

Im getting one with a tire carrier added on

here are some pictures of his bumper

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/DSCF2333-1.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/DSCF2334.jpg

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/DSCF2336.jpg

im getting mine unpainted and will make the drive up to Idaho to pick it up (why? because I love to drive)

here is the tire carrier im going for

centered tire with jerry cans on each side, perpendicular to the tire.

http://www.quadratec.com/Assets/Images/18200/18200-lg.jpg

here is how the CBI tire carrier works on a 4th gen

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/Smaller20200709071821231.jpg


I should have mine by end of feburary, and at least I got a time and date on it unlike some with their Sworks bumper.

[Rock Slide]

That rear bumper looks real nice.

So it can built w/o the vehicle present? I thought the reason so many rear bumpers had to be custom built was b/c each vehicle is just different enough to make a difference. How do these guys solve that issue? Does the bumper not offer as tight of a fit as say a custom one might? Sure is a plus though that they don't need the vehicle!

[neliconcept]

That rear bumper looks real nice.

So it can built w/o the vehicle present? I thought the reason so many rear bumpers had to be custom built was b/c each vehicle is just different enough to make a difference. How do these guys solve that issue? Does the bumper not offer as tight of a fit as say a custom one might? Sure is a plus though that they don't need the vehicle!


vehicle in that picture wasnt present for the build either, looks good enough to me.
it doesnt need to fit tight, too tight and the frame flexing could cause major problems for the rear quarters.

he uses a 4runner there at the shop though to build it.

[xonetruthcrewx]

Out of curiosity, How much?

[neliconcept]

Out of curiosity, How much?


800 unpainted for mine with tire carrier.
550 unpainted for one without.

but take these prices with a grain of salt, i dont know if he will charge more or not if he gets a lot of customers.

[Bighead]

I hope it works out for you. Rockware used Darren Kilgore's 2002 4Runner as the template to make both our bumpers with tire carrier. Darren's turned out great while mine was off enough for the bumper to cause some minor body damage when the truck flexed or hit a hard bump. I was amazed there was that much difference between vehicles one year apart.

[randver]

other then whether it fits right or not. i love the tire carrier but don't like the tow hitch being under the bumper still instead of in it.

[neliconcept]

other then whether it fits right or not. i love the tire carrier but don't like the tow hitch being under the bumper still instead of in it.


mine will be integrated, i pointed that out as well

[neliconcept]

I hope it works out for you. Rockware used Darren Kilgore's 2002 4Runner as the template to make both our bumpers with tire carrier. Darren's turned out great while mine was off enough for the bumper to cause some minor body damage when the truck flexed or hit a hard bump. I was amazed there was that much difference between vehicles one year apart.


yeah i heard about that, Im going to pull the tire winch and crossmember out from underneath and add some tubing underneath for more strength.

Ric accidently hit a rock coming down on his armorology bumper and it flexed enough to put a huge dent in his left quarter, but he has the entire rear crossmember out for the tire winch thing.

Hopefully I can add enough to keep it from flexing either frame rail independently.

the 4runner Steve has is actually an 01 sport like mine at CBI. makes me feel better. I told him i want about .5 to .75" of a gap and hes gonna do that.

[Bob98SR5]

looks just like bruce's design and pricing is not that bad.

[Ric]

i think what most are trying to say is, that even though its a somewhat custom bumper, the mounting holes are going to bigger than need be, to allow for the differences in vehicles, so dont tap it on a rock, it will move on ya.


Ric accidently hit a rock coming down on his armorology bumper and it flexed enough to put a huge dent in his left quarter, but he has the entire rear crossmember out for the tire winch thing.
its not bad, :roll: cant even see it, until I point it out, lol but yea I dont have the Tire carrier cross member bar.
Yours is still plenty strong, no need to remove the cross member, unless your going to make that a storage area, like I "want" to, just havent done it, lol,

[BruceTS]

you'll need at least 1" gap, otherwise your guarranteed to do body damage when bumping into anything. Even then 1" isn't truly enough, since the body can flex upwards of 2" easily, that's why I added the rubber trim to cover the gap and help to dampen, when the bumper does flex into the body.

[neliconcept]

you'll need at least 1" gap, otherwise your guarranteed to do body damage when bumping into anyhing. Even then 1" isn't truly enough, since the body can flex upwards of 2" easily, that's why I added the rubber trim to cover the gap and help to dampen, when the bumper does flex into the body.


rubber trim huh? i may do that with both the front and rears to see if that helps.

[arjan]

Poly body mounts would help a bit against that, wouldn't it?

[Lee]

its not bad, :roll: cant even see it, until I point it out, lol but yea I dont have the Tire carrier cross member bar.
Yours is still plenty strong, no need to remove the cross member, unless your going to make that a storage area, like I "want" to, just havent done it, lol,
ric, please make sure you put a crossmember in there. youre lucky so far, but you can tweak the frame or body if you dont support the frame properly. put a piece of 1x1 in at the very least, that should help things!

[ADH8796]

you'll need at least 1" gap, otherwise your guarranteed to do body damage when bumping into anyhing. Even then 1" isn't truly enough, since the body can flex upwards of 2" easily, that's why I added the rubber trim to cover the gap and help to dampen, when the bumper does flex into the body.


I learned this the hard way. The picture was taken after I had cut the bumper back and added rubber trim to fill the gap but the damage was already done.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q294/aharder_album/Troy%20Lee%20Designs/IM000690.jpg

[neliconcept]

hes gonna make it a 1" gap for me, and ill fill the rest with a thick weather stripping to help out.

for the underneath, I plan to build a small box to handle CVs, tie rod ends, bolts, ujoints, and various other small parts to keep from out from inside the truck. will keep it in line with the bumper so it doesnt hang too low. cut out the tire carrier crossmember and add 2 1x1 square tubes to support the box in place i would assume, if the tubes should be bigger then ill go that rout, just dont know how to keep the box in there, Id want it to be removable, so i can get to it.

[BruceTS]

If you plan to add a storage box use one of these (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?id=0001528010645a&navCount=3&podId=0001528&parentId=cat21314&masterpathid=&navAction=jump&cmCat=MainCatcat21276-cat21314_TGP&catalogCode=IJ&rid=&parentType=index&indexId=cat21314&hasJS=true"). I thought about adding one, if I chose not to move my fuel tank to the back.


As for body mounts, if you changed them out to a stiffer material, you'll be asking for more trouble down the road when the body starts cracking. Also there would be more road noise transmitted into the cab.

[Ric]

ric, please make sure you put a crossmember in there. youre lucky so far, but you can tweak the frame or body if you dont support the frame properly. put a piece of 1x1 in at the very least, that should help things thankx for the concern, thats why I like this place most members do generaly care :thumbup:
But yea, when I did cut it out, I had every intent to have a custom tank there, then life happens, lol its on my "top 2 list" appreciate the concern :thumbup:

[BruceTS]

I don't have a crossmember any longer..... no need the bumper took it's place.

If your gonna add bracing, I'd plate the back half of the frame rails. Something you might consider when adding a tire carrier, them frames are too weak to handle that much weight.

[neliconcept]

plate the rails on the outside? I cant remember who makes rear plates for our trucks. or i guess i could have some cut with holes drilled out.

[neliconcept]

dangit ballistic used to make frame plates for the 4runner and tacoma.

guess not anymore

ok demello does

http://www.demello-offroad.com//catalog/product_info.php?cPath=27_60&products_id=108&osCsid=fcde5cf24bd46a801e819910236dafa9

but they are made for a tacoma, im sure i could get them to fit with some grinding, i think our frames are really similar, shouldnt really matter much

[BruceTS]

You'll need to fabricate your own, Taco's are totally different. I plan to eventually make a set for mine, but oversized to fill in the gap from the body lift..

[neliconcept]

You'll need to fabricate your own, Taoc's are totally different. I plan to eventually make a set for mine, but oversized to fill in the gap from the body lift..


shouldnt be too hard, just make a template, get a metal cutter, drill holes and then weld on?

welding part i couldnt do but the rest i can, ive done some steel cutting for my uncle before. damnit i need to learn how to weld.

[Rock Slide]

Any idea if they are willing to tweak this bumper? Meaning, would they add cutouts for bumper lights or say a small mounting point for a firestick antenna if you wanted them added?

Curious to know if they will make small modifications to it (like mentioned above) or large ones for that matter? I'm sure it's due to tire clearance, but I would like to see the sides of this bumper more in line with the fender flares. Similar to the Rock Ware rear bumper on Darren's 4Runner. The flare and bumper seem more in line on his while not sacrificing clearance.

Oh and here's pictures of Darren's: http://www.mycolorado.org/images/rockware/index.htm

[Bob98SR5]

Mr. Concept,

Do you think they'd be interested in a group buy?

Bob

[neliconcept]

I think i may be able to get something together since Toyota120 did a group buy with the 4th gen 4runners.

might want to wait for mine to get done to see how the tire carrier looks and fits.


Rock Slide, he can build it however you want it basically, thats for you to tell him when its in construction. Im sure backup lights could be added to the sides.

[MillerPKA]

i'll contact steve about that group buy tomorrow if somebody hasn't by then, i had an order in for one save the tire carrier about 6 months ago but the money wasn't there. how much did you get quoted blake with the carrier? also, it should be noted that steve doesn't offer the powdercoating anymore as his old contact is no longer available (something along those lines), he could get it done, but for the price you might as well bite the bullet and get it shipped bare. as for me, i'll be getting his bumper before summer (don't know about the tire carrier just yet) and line x'ing the front and getting the arb as well to match

[Rock Slide]

I think i may be able to get something together since Toyota120 did a group buy with the 4th gen 4runners.

might want to wait for mine to get done to see how the tire carrier looks and fits.


Rock Slide, he can build it however you want it basically, thats for you to tell him when its in construction. Im sure backup lights could be added to the sides.


Great, that's good to know. I was not sure if it was like ordering a TJM (cannot request modifications) or if it one that you could request built a specific way.

I'll keep a watch out for how yours turns out. It's nice to know they don't require the vehicle that it's going on to be present.

[neliconcept]

I think i may be able to get something together since Toyota120 did a group buy with the 4th gen 4runners.

might want to wait for mine to get done to see how the tire carrier looks and fits.


Rock Slide, he can build it however you want it basically, thats for you to tell him when its in construction. Im sure backup lights could be added to the sides.


Great, that's good to know. I was not sure if it was like ordering a TJM (cannot request modifications) or if it one that you could request built a specific way.

I'll keep a watch out for how yours turns out. It's nice to know they don't require the vehicle that it's going on to be present.


yep pretty much, nothing like TJM, however its going to be about the same wait as a Shrockworks bumper, but I got the details up front.

I left him a message talking about a potential group buy, ill call him either friday or early next week for more details.

[Seanz0rz]

id be interested in a group buy after i see yours blake.

[neliconcept]

I'll keep everyone posted on progress.

if yall want, just give me a general idea of who would like a bumper so we could figure out a rough number for a future group buy if possible.

[Bob98SR5]

blake,

from my experience and at this price, you will be hard pressed to get 5 serious committed people right off the bat, just 'interested' parties. it would be better just to email them and ask if they can give you tiered pricing (i.e. price for 5 people, price for 6 through 10 buyers) and then post on all the forums.

bob

[neliconcept]

blake,

from my experience and at this price, you will be hard pressed to get 5 serious committed people right off the bat, just 'interested' parties. it would be better just to email them and ask if they can give you tiered pricing (i.e. price for 5 people, price for 6 through 10 buyers) and then post on all the forums.

bob





well it would be easier to get a list for Steve at CBI to gestimate imo, but at this price? seems well priced imo, well below what others are at custom or not.

anyways, ill call Steve next week, and periodically see if he can take pictures of the build process of mine for the sake of this thread :)

thanks

[Seanz0rz]

blake, i think what he meant was not the price vs. competing products, but the price as in several hundred dollars. to most of us thats a pretty big commitment, and although interested, people have a hard time parting with that much money at one time for one piece.

[neliconcept]

blake, i think what he meant was not the price vs. competing products, but the price as in several hundred dollars. to most of us thats a pretty big commitment, and although interested, people have a hard time parting with that much money at one time for one piece.





ahh yeah good point.

well even if i did call them and got a set price on 10 people, it would be better if my bumper was done and able to be inspected by pictures or whoever sees it in CO. And me give a rating on how well its build (which I think it will be good considering i busted the hell out of my CBI carrier when backing into a rock in a snow run) hard.

i left a message yesterday, ill call next week.

[Bob98SR5]

blake,

to clarify, you would get a much better commitment from people if they knew the group buy price. part of the headache of putting group buys together is getting firm commitments and i've learned that the best way to approach it is to throw out the price given to you by the manufacturer or retailer.

bob

[neliconcept]

blake,

to clarify, you would get a much better commitment from people if they knew the group buy price. part of the headache of putting group buys together is getting firm commitments and i've learned that the best way to approach it is to throw out the price given to you by the manufacturer or retailer.

bob


yeah i understand what you meant before now, was just confused before.

I'll see what I can do, ill get estimates for lets say 6 people, 8 people and 10 people to see if that helps. Might just be better if people know what they are getting into when mine is done :)

[neliconcept]

well update, i get my bumper here tuesday, hes not quite done with it, putting the finishing touches on it. has a guy that works down here in fort collins who is going to drive it down. so i dont pay shipping or gas to get it.

35s and a bumper all in the same week almost. gonna be a nice month of april.

reasoning for the late build: they had a huge group buy with toy120 with the 4th gens, and then he had to let a fabricator go in the last 3 weeks, so its been hectic.

im sure it was worth the wait, plus not like my bumper is effed up beyond repair right now anyways.

[Rock Slide]

Cool. Looking forward to the pics. :D

Is it being delievered PC'd, painted or just bare metal?

[neliconcept]

bare metal, thats inless i make him hold on to it for another two weeks since i have to deal with this axle seal bs

[Wingnut]

Cool.

I picked up a used Irbis rear bumper/tire carrier a few months ago. Built similarly, beefy as all get out. Already saved my rear quarters a few times.

[MillerPKA]

i want your stock one when you're through with it, i want mine painted to match

[neliconcept]

ill keep that in mind when i bring it back with me, but you better still want it then.

[RunnerUp]

did you get this yet?

[crolison]

I'll keep everyone posted on progress.

if yall want, just give me a general idea of who would like a bumper so we could figure out a rough number for a future group buy if possible.

I would be interested if the price was right.

[RunnerUp]

not only would i be interested if the price was right, but i would for sure buy one with a tire carrier if the price was right enough to cover shipping to florida

[neliconcept]

i havent heard from Steve yet, so i have no idea whats going on

[RunnerUp]

do you have yours yet? pics?

[neliconcept]

do you have yours yet? pics?

no

[neliconcept]

good news, its been done, payed the other part of the bill, asked him to shoot me some pictures, it should get here sometime next week by the one guy

im going to be housing some other guys bumper from crested butte as well since shipping would have been 200 or so even to colorado from idaho.

ill keep everyone updated.

[Ric]

wheres the pics ? lol

[neliconcept]

ill get em tomorrow or thursday

he has to find the camera.

[Rock Slide]

the wait is killing me :D

[neliconcept]

im gonna call tomorrow to see if he got pictures

[RunnerUp]

so basically i would be looking at A TON of money to first buy it and then get it shipped to florida... damnit, i want a rear bumper w/ tire carrier so badly. guess i gotta find someone closer to me to build me a custom one soon.

but im still waiting on pictures so post them up when you get them, i gotta start gathering idea's for my eventual build of a bumper. maybe i should start practicing welding more instead of just screwing around so that i could build my own and cut the labor down to a couple cases of beer.

[neliconcept]

it would cost you roughly the same to go with Irbis or if somebody else built one and shipped it.

800+250, 1050 unpainted, thats tire carrier, 550 without, 250 shipped, so 800 shipped for bumper.

not bad, but im lucky in having a guy that drives down every two weeks bring mine and some other guys down.

gonna call in about an hour or two.

[Ric]

Kyle,
Just do it, lol call Irbis, have them built it, drive up here, have them install it, you can crash here at my place, then we will hit a few trails, then you can cruise back home :thumbup:

[neliconcept]

Kyle,
Just do it, lol call Irbis, have them built it, drive up here, have them install it, you can crash here at my place, then we will hit a few trails, then you can cruise back home :thumbup:


lol would be a fun trip, cost more then twice in gas compared to a shipping quote most likely.

but i say do it!

[YotaFun]

:pics:


Where are these pics we keep getting promised :flipoff:

[neliconcept]

kiss my ass, im waiting on them too

[Rock Slide]

it would cost you roughly the same to go with Irbis or if somebody else built one and shipped it.

800+250, 1050 unpainted, thats tire carrier, 550 without, 250 shipped, so 800 shipped for bumper.

not bad, but im lucky in having a guy that drives down every two weeks bring mine and some other guys down.

gonna call in about an hour or two.


$800 shipped is not bad at all for an unpainted bumper (no tire carrier). I realize you do not have yours yet, but how close of a fit do you expect to have when it is mounted? Seems most fabricators want the vehicle in their possession to make the bumper around. Are you worried about it not being as tight as it could be or do you expect it will be just as tight?

[neliconcept]

well he left a .5" gap from the truck he put it on. also i may have to do some drilling, maybe, i have no idea. i got a call from him, it is definitely coming down tuesday.

he said he will try to get pictures asap.

so im happy and ill have it by tuesday

[neliconcept]

bumpers are here.... pics are uploading

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/2967/img0137vc8.jpg
http://img252.imageshack.us/img252/4215/img0138ky3.jpg
http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/7581/img0141xd0.jpg
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/3979/img0142ad3.jpg


so there they are.

im going to see if i can take off the tire carrier to test install it tomorrow, would help with out the extra weight on there.

after test install, going to get primer, 2 coats, then 2 coats of millenium silver semi gloss paint. (maybe full gloss)

bumpers werent extremely heavy, id say 120-140lbs?

btw the other bumper isnt mine, its a guys in crested butte for another 4runner, looks like im not the only one going to be running around with a CBI and carrier

[BruceTS]

looks to be a very heavy bumper, but I have to say the frame mounts have little to be desired.....

[bigwapitijohnny]

Blake,

What did this bumper set you back for?

Curious,

BwJ

[neliconcept]

800 total

Bruce, despite the angle, their is some serious gusset work underneath and its higher clearance then any bumper ive ever seen for a 3rd gen.

[bigwapitijohnny]

Blake,

The variance of fit has always been the problem with 'custom' bumpers for the 4runner. I know that Jed has found only one instance in which the fit was perfect from one runner to another. I hope that yours fit without a hitch. That is the reason why Jed does not ship his at all :shake:. I am sure that BruceTS can shed some light on this fact as well. Looking forward to the pics installed.

Good luck!

BWJ

[neliconcept]

sorry, just got poon from a girl i shouldnt have and regret so i havent been able to read the rest.

what do you mean by fitting without a hitch? their is a hitch its just recessed and part of the high clearance that is there.

going to test fit it tomorrow with the help of Bobby.

[slosurfer]

:laugh: I think he meant "hitch" as a figure of speech. He was saying that he hopes that yours fits with no problems.

[BruceTS]

Bruce, despite the angle, their is some serious gusset work underneath and its higher clearance then any bumper ive ever seen for a 3rd gen.

There may be some serious gusset work, but unless he supplied additional bracing for the frame that is not pictured, those mounting points are too weak to hold that kind of weight.

[neliconcept]

:laugh: I think he meant "hitch" as a figure of speech. He was saying that he hopes that yours fits with no problems.


we shall see, Steve said i may need to grind a little bit on the ends of the frame rails for some welds, but thats it.

Bruce.

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.

[BruceTS]

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.

I guess you need to mount the bumper, then you may understand what I'm talking about. Just take a few shots of each side of the frame rail after the bumper is mounted, then I'll point out what the problem is.

[bigwapitijohnny]

'Hitch' = fitting without any or much problems. The mounting points on my rear bumper consists of 4 bolts on each side in addition to the wing support. I really cannot comment on the frame mounts because I am not qualified to do so. I'll leave that to BruceTS and Jed. I understand the difficulty of all that is involved a little bit, that is why I left those 'headaches' :yikes: to Jed and his expertise...Again, good luck on the fitting.

Regards,

BWJ

[neliconcept]

Bruce, despite the angle, their is some serious gusset work underneath and its higher clearance then any bumper ive ever seen for a 3rd gen.

There may be some serious gusset work, but unless he supplied additional bracing for the frame that is not pictured, those mounting points are too weak to hold that kind of weight.



i see what you are talking about.... yeah we shall see, if needed i could add some plating to the other side as well of the mount support or something of that nature.

also those mount supports are 1/2 thick metal just if anyone wonders.


side note... any advice on how to get this damn thing up to height to get it mounted? we tried hi lift jacks (but.. i was on the side street and its very angular) and it was just me and bobby test fitting, so we got holes sorta aligned but it fell on us before i could bolt some up.

going to get some paint today and coat it up some.

[Rock Slide]

Nice. Glad to see you got it in. Looking forward to seeing it mounted.

[neliconcept]

painting it now, 3 cans so far of primer, and i think 3 cans of silver gloss should do it, however it may not match lol.

im just gonna run this for a while until i get it powdercoated or painted to match down the road. temp solution but its lookin good with one coat of silver on so far. 2 more cans and should be lookin mighty nice.

[Ric]

painting it now, 3 cans so far of primer, and i think 3 cans of silver gloss should do it, however it may not match lol.

im just gonna run this for a while until i get it powdercoated or painted to match down the road. temp solution but its lookin good with one coat of silver on so far. 2 more cans and should be lookin mighty nice.

STOP with the teasing, and Get-R-Done already, lol

[neliconcept]

drive up here friday and help me put it on and i will lol.

i work tomorrow and this thing aint light.

but its looking good, silver is getting to be more and more like the truck, tiny bit darker but im not concerned.

ill get some pics of it painted tomorrow

[Ric]

ill see whats up

[neliconcept]

well if you do decide (dont worry about it though) bring a 3rd person, its a heavy bizatch

[Good Times]

we shall see, Steve said i may need to grind a little bit on the ends of the frame rails for some welds, but thats it.

Bruce.

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.


Blake the bumper looks nice but I too have concerns with the mounting of the bumper as well as the "plating the sides/top/boom" that you've already performed on the frame. Based on the photos of the bumper if you've already done this plating of the frame, I would think that the bumper won't line up because of the plating. The plating would get in the way of the L bracket design that's suppose to bolt up to your frame (or drilled, whatever the case).

I see the hitch integrated but I will suspect that the hitch will be used primarily for recover if that because if it's anything more, the mounting points and design would definitely make it for one questionable strength.

I could be totally wrong though since I can't see it in person but at any rate it looks like a nice bumper. Just take pix already the hell w/ paint! that stuff comes off on the trail anyway :chair:

[Lee]

just get some help putting it on jackstands, paint it, then get help putting it on jackstands under the truck...

[neliconcept]

we shall see, Steve said i may need to grind a little bit on the ends of the frame rails for some welds, but thats it.

Bruce.

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.


Blake the bumper looks nice but I too have concerns with the mounting of the bumper as well as the "plating the sides/top/boom" that you've already performed on the frame. Based on the photos of the bumper if you've already done this plating of the frame, I would think that the bumper won't line up because of the plating. The plating would get in the way of the L bracket design that's suppose to bolt up to your frame (or drilled, whatever the case).

I see the hitch integrated but I will suspect that the hitch will be used primarily for recover if that because if it's anything more, the mounting points and design would definitely make it for one questionable strength.

I could be totally wrong though since I can't see it in person but at any rate it looks like a nice bumper. Just take pix already the hell w/ paint! that stuff comes off on the trail anyway :chair:


i didnt plate it all the way back. not going to get in the way,

lee, thats what i want to do, but my jackstands are small and do not reach nearly high enough, hell even with the bodylift and the hanging hitch they didnt even reach high enough.

[neliconcept]

http://img151.imageshack.us/img151/814/img0143pw7.jpg

back side, primer only on backside except for out posts that goto the sides.

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/8115/img0144qy8.jpg

despite it being heavy, its not as heavy as a keg or anywhere near it keg=169lbs, and yes i can powerclean a keg.

i really need help installing it though, and i think ill get some 2x4s, 3 or 4 and have them cut in to sections for a double base for the jack stands and also for the jack itself.

[Ric]

Blake, run to the store, graba case of beer, then go to the gym there at school, and ask 3 or 4 of the gymrats to help, tell them theres a case of beer in for them for 30 mintues of work, Im sure they would be more than happy to help out :hillbill:
Oh and its looking good.

[neliconcept]

Blake, run to the store, graba case of beer, then go to the gym there at school, and ask 3 or 4 of the gymrats to help, tell them theres a case of beer in for them for 30 mintues of work, Im sure they would be more than happy to help out :hillbill:
Oh and its looking good.


i need a grinder too i think, just to grind a tiny bit off the corners
(frame rail) for the welds on the mounts.

[neliconcept]

ok its done, here come the pics if they ever upload.

and yes before you comment the flaws, i already know they exist, aka gap near flares, aka hitch support (my bro will fix that when i get back home. or maybe ill get some 3/8ths steel and do some design work.

also the color sucks. repainting is in the very near future.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0148.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0147.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0146.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0145.jpg

[bigwapitijohnny]

Any pics of the frame mounts? Just curious...

BWJ

[Lee]

looks good, how did you resist throwing your spare on!? :laugh:

[neliconcept]

spare is at bobbys and it has a 33 on lol.

id love to put it on soon though with 35 :)

BWJ, yeah i can get some soon, gonna get some waffy house now, soooo hungry for some breakfast food

[4Runner202020]

he doesn't got a full size spare yet. it took him and i like fifteen min to get it on not bad. it looks way sick in person...

[4Runner202020]

o ya blake i shoulda brought that to ya. lol i'm movin tomorrow and cant take it wtih me. lol

[neliconcept]

ill come pick it up today after you get off.

[BruceTS]

Until you bolt that bumper on properly, I'd suggest taking off the carrier portion. The pictures you posted only show the bottom bolts holding it on. No where near strong enough to support that much weight.

[Ric]

looks good :thumbup: i think the paint is fine, matches fine IMO, whats the extras on it ? i know ones for the tire, duh,lol whats the bolts for under the tire carrier ? hilift maybe ? what about on the drivers side, whats that thing ?

[neliconcept]

in those pictures yes, i just drilled the holes for the other two on the side and the far back one.

so its all bolted up right now.

[neliconcept]

looks good :thumbup: i think the paint is fine, matches fine IMO, whats the extras on it ? i know ones for the tire, duh,lol whats the bolts for under the tire carrier ? hilift maybe ? what about on the drivers side, whats that thing ?


license plate on left, hi lift on right, and two bolts up on the left corner will be for the gas can holders when they come.

[Rock Slide]

Looks good...color aint that bad either.

Yeah, the gap near the fender flares is off, but overall, it does not appear to have any other gaps (correct me if I'm wrong). It looks like it fits nice and tight near the body. That's pretty good considering they did not have your 4Runner to build around.

As for accessories, got any room on there for some lights too :D. I was going to suggest maybe some shackles as well, but there does not seem to be room for them. Oh well, still looks good.

I'd like to see some pics underneath of how it mounts too when you get a chance.

[neliconcept]

ok here are some more pics.

told the logan guy with the other 4runner non body lift bumper to post up as well, his should fit even better then mine due to it wasnt modified.

i just noticed something.

ill let yall figure out what it is.

gonna call steve now about it.

[Ric]

you tease, wheres the pics, lol

[neliconcept]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0152.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0153.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0156.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0157.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0158.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0160.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0161.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0162.jpg

[Ric]

looks good :thumbup: I didnt think Id like it painted silver, but its not looking bad... :thumbup:

[bigwapitijohnny]

Blake,

Thanks for getting the pics of the frame mounts. What are you going to carry in addition to the 35" spare? Reason why I ask, Jed at Armorology did not recommend carrying too much weight on one of his bumpers on a 4runner. I was looking to get a tire carrier + Gas cans + working lamp + hi-lift jack like you got. My question to you is this: How did you address the weight issue with yours? What changes did your fabricator make to minimize this issue...Are you happy with your decision to go with CBI instead of Armorology? If you pass through Kansas City, I'd love to grab a bite and see your rig in person :thumbup:. Let me know.

Thanks,

BWJ

[2ndGen]

it looks good.

i'm with you on the weight issue BWJ, that's one of the reasons i made my hitch mount tire carrier.


a.) cheap, it costed me no more than $40 on material
b.) removeable, 4Runner is my DD, i don't want to carry all that weight while i'm driving around town, which is 99% of the time. and do i have to mention gas is the new gold now?
c.) not blocking my rear window 99% of the time.

these pictures were taken with my old 94(sold).

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/tonniechengca/spare/P1000794.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/tonniechengca/spare/P1000791.jpg

[neliconcept]

it looks good.

i'm with you on the weight issue BWJ, that's one of the reasons i made my hitch mount tire carrier.


a.) cheap, it costed me no more than $40 on material
b.) removeable, 4Runner is my DD, i don't want to carry all that weight while i'm driving around town, which is 99% of the time. and do i have to mention gas is the new gold now?
c.) not blocking my rear window 99% of the time.

these pictures were taken with my old 94(sold).

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/tonniechengca/spare/P1000794.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w38/tonniechengca/spare/P1000791.jpg





yeah thats what i used to have, however i have a body lift and my hitch is the same height as a generic 3" 4runner on 33s (now on 35s) and now the bumper is very high clearance and can give me the the added carrier option.

i have some ideas on how to fix the gap between bumper and body being so close, but still not sure.

i guess nobody figured it out

take a look at this picture, if you see the side mount and the mount on the frame, they arent parallel, reason it touches at the flare.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0156.jpg

[warrior3313]

On the first page the pic of the rear bumper with tire carrier on the 4th gen yota do they still make that? How much does it run about and my 4runner doesnt have to be present?

[neliconcept]

On the first page the pic of the rear bumper with tire carrier on the 4th gen yota do they still make that? How much does it run about and my 4runner doesnt have to be present?


would have to call them, but they make it, check out toyota120,com for some others who have it.

[Good Times]

i have some ideas on how to fix the gap between bumper and body being so close, but still not sure.

i guess nobody figured it out

take a look at this picture, if you see the side mount and the mount on the frame, they arent parallel, reason it touches at the flare.

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0156.jpg




Bruce.

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.


Looking at your photos it doesn't appear that you've plated your frame. Therefore that's something you can do and that should push the bumper down. Now that I get a better picture of the frame mounts you'll need to plate the bottom and inner side. Plating the bottom means that the bumper will sit lower because of the added plate that gets in the way. I can't see any other way to add a better gap between the body and side panels of the bumper w/o physically moving the bumper down at the mounts or redoing the bumper. Maybe a taller body lift? Not sure if you want to do that or you're already at your max so I recommend just plating the frame.

Plus with the added weight of that bumper + 35" tire and other stuff you'll need to significantly reinforce your frame cuz I doubt it'll hold. I would hate to see you snap your frame on the trails so take this opportunity to reinforce the bottom and inner side (since you can't do the outer due to the bumper mounts getting in the way).

Also I would recommend something else. Once you plate the inner frame wall, I'd add another plate on the inner side of the bumper that attaches to the frame to secure the bumper better to the frame. Basically you're looking at a |_| style instead of the current _| that you have right now. You might think it's an overkill but I'd say it's good insurance to have plus it'll definitely beef up that bumper mount.

The combo of reinforcing the frame and the added sidewall on the frame mount for the bumper will make it stronger.

Hope this helps. Btw those welds look killer! I wish I could weld like that :tapedshut:

[neliconcept]

ive plated up towards the wheel, but yeah basically like you are saying, plating the underside of the frame ends is what ill most likely do to gap it some more. maybe 3/8ths?

the carrier holds 2 cans (holders not finished yet), jack and 35, but when it swings out ill prob have those takin off most of the time, and or i wont have them on that much, just on certain trails (long expedition trails) rock crawling? prob leave at campsite or throw in back.

also the option of when i go SAS, that i could still do the idea of stinger rear like i was thinking about before.

lots to do when i get home, my brother is the master welder and id rather not pay someone up here to do it, so gonna keep it as is for a little bit.

[Good Times]

Depending on how much of a gap you want you'll have to go accordingly. Using 3/8th to plate the frame may be an overkill though but since you're trying to gap the bumper and body that might be good for the bottom. Go with something thinner on the inner.

Sustained weight on the rear even just for transportation w/ the jack+35+2cans will do a number on your frame so beef it up. It's the constant stress that strains the frame and the long overdue stress is what fatigues the frame. Once you hit it hard it can snap so be proactive and reinforce your frame so you don't have to worry about your rear falling off. Better safe than sorry.

[BruceTS]

ive plated up towards the wheel


I don't see any plating? If you did you plated the wrong area.....

[neliconcept]

ive plated up towards the wheel


I don't see any plating? If you did you plated the wrong area.....


cuz i didnt do any, just tryin to get yall off my ass about it.

[Lee]

hahahahahaha wow.

this isnt high school and we're your parents and youre lying about a bad grade.. :headscratch:

[neliconcept]

hahahahahaha wow.

this isnt high school and we're your parents and youre lying about a bad grade.. :headscratch:


no it isnt high school, but thats the way im interpreting it.

[Lee]

i guess im confused.. what's wrong with saying "yeah my frame isnt plated. thanks for your feedback, ill see how it fits and if it needs to be modified to make it fit better, ill do so." :laugh:

i just dont see why there's a need to lie... people are here to HELP :)

[garrett]

ive plated up towards the wheel



I don't see any plating? If you did you plated the wrong area.....


cuz i didnt do any, just tryin to get yall off my ass about it.




:rofl: :gay:

[Seanz0rz]

well this thread quickly went down hill...

[neliconcept]

i guess im confused.. what's wrong with saying "yeah my frame isnt plated. thanks for your feedback, ill see how it fits and if it needs to be modified to make it fit better, ill do so." :laugh:

i just dont see why there's a need to lie... people are here to HELP :)


i was only joking in the last two post, but since you say that, ive been saying that i have plans to do some plating blah blah blah here and here and fix this and that, and yet i still get even more criticism, rather then sure well cant wait to see it all finished up.

[slosurfer]

This is awesome! :popcorn:

[Seanz0rz]

This is awesome! :popcorn:


another bag of :popcorn: just went into the microwave...

[Bob98SR5]

awe freakin' lay off guys, he's pioneering here and i got a lot of respect for someone willing to make an effort to start the ball rolling on another source of 3rd gen bumpers. sheesh!

[2ndGen]

we are just jealous.

[Henrythewound]

With all the $$ you've poured into your 4Runner I am shocked you would risk damage to something as important as the frame by tossing the bumper on there and planning on adding a bunch more weight. Sounds like folks who know are trying to offer genuine advice to hopefully save you hardship. Looks like that 4Runner has to be about done? What else could you possibly do to it? What a beast! MPG?

[YotaFun]

Looks like that 4Runner has to be about done? What else could you possibly do to it?


A rig is never done being built, he can still do a cage, SAS *hint hint*, supercharger or turbo, flatbelly, and the list goes on.

The bumper looks great, as for added plating and all, I will leave that to the experts, I wouldn't even know where to begin.
At least there are more 3rd gen rear bumpers showing up.

[4Runner202020]

he will probably be plating it this weekend with help of my buddy that build my bumpers and is going to build my skids. he knows what he is doing and i had him read all this and he will be using a lot of your guys info (bruce and good times) and it will get done right. blake is like me and just wants it done and on. lol then worry about all the other stuff later wether it be super important or not. we are young and will learn and thanks for all the help you guys!!

[Henrythewound]

A rig is never done being built...


Well, my 4Runner is "done". I added everything I care to add and it's more than capable to take me where I intend on taking it. At some point the mods simply cost too much to really warrant them for any real purpose other than obsession or aesthetics (IMO). A nice vehicle quickly turns into a bottomless money pit.

[neliconcept]

A rig is never done being built...


Well, my 4Runner is "done". I added everything I care to add and it's more than capable to take me where I intend on taking it. At some point the mods simply cost too much to really warrant them for any real purpose other than obsession or aesthetics (IMO). A nice vehicle quickly turns into a bottomless money pit.


ive seen heavier bumpers have tires (aka Lees, and vermejo, and maybe others that didnt plate) im not throwing everything on right now, to be honest id like for ppl to actually read the thread of my posts ratehr then others and just mimic what they say..

thats all im hearing is a broken record at the moment except from a select few.

[BruceTS]

Where to start..... first off my comments were about the bumper you purchased and problems I see in the way it is mounted. To have that much weight on a single mounting point is asking for trouble down the road. That's right a single mount on the end of the frame rail at it's weakest point. The 2" bottom plate won't do squat for vertical loading, so now you have a 1/2" plate bolted to a frame that is less than an 1/8" thick. I guess you just don't want to hear this, so you had to lie and bring up that you had already gusseted the frame. The frame doesn't need to be gusseted if the bumper mounts are done properly to spread the load force over a larger area. I even change my design after an issue came up on one run, then I added a top plate that fully wraps the frame.

Now I won't bring up all the other problems I see, just figured you'd find out the hard way since it's very apparent that you don't want to hear it. Just one word of advice though, once you start lying about upgrades, it's gonna make it that much more difficult for anyone to take you seriously.

[neliconcept]

Where to start..... first off my comments were about the bumper you purchased and problems I see in the way it is mounted. To have that much weight on a single mounting point is asking for trouble down the road. That's right a single mount on the end of the frame rail at it's weakest point. The 2" bottom plate won't do squat for vertical loading, so now you have a 1/2" plate bolted to a frame that is less than an 1/8" thick. I guess you just don't want to hear this, so you had to lie and bring up that you had already gusseted the frame. The frame doesn't need to be gusseted if the bumper mounts are done properly to spread the load force over a larger area. I even change my design after an issue came up on one run, then I added a top plate that fully wraps the frame.

Now I won't bring up all the other problems I see, just figured you'd find out the hard way since it's very apparent that you don't want to hear it. Just one word of advice though, once you start lying about upgrades, it's gonna make it that much more difficult for anyone to take you seriously.


ok lets get this straight, id take you more seriously if you didnt have a snide ass remark about the bumper before it was on abut the mount saying

those mounts are less then desirable..

shit like that pisses me off more then anything. I ask for straight shooter responses,

aka (the mounts look like they need to be beefed up to disperse load distribution. wrap the mounts around the frame rail blah blah..

instead you make about 10 fucking posts that say that one damn sentence with a bunch of bullshit in between and make this thread totally fucking useless.

why am I pissed? because out of every fucking thread ive had for ideas or doing a conversion or whatever else ive done, ive had you or others come badger the fuck out of me and give me the most bullshit repsonse that anyone could give.

im out of here.

[slosurfer]

looks to be a very heavy bumper, but I have to say the frame mounts have little to be desired.....




800 total

Bruce, despite the angle, their is some serious gusset work underneath and its higher clearance then any bumper ive ever seen for a 3rd gen.






There may be some serious gusset work, but unless he supplied additional bracing for the frame that is not pictured, those mounting points are too weak to hold that kind of weight.









Bruce.

talking about the sides where i need plating? i had that done 3 weeks ago, sides and top and bottom. frame should handle it fine.



These are quoted in order from when you posted pics. I see no snide remarks from Bruce. He merely offered advice. To which you said you had done something to correct the problem (which you then said that you did not). Not everyone is going to clap and give you a thumbs up to every idea you have. I'd be surprised if many people offer you advice anymore. I also think you will find it hard to get sponsors if you start fibbing about what mods you have done.

One of your other threads you specifically asked for advice and as soon as people started giving you advice that didn't go along with what you were thinking, you started getting pissed and telling people to get off your back. :headscratch:

I'm not trying to pick on you and you can take this for what it is worth. I really like your rig and what you have done to it. I think you need to cool off and quit lashing out at those who are only offering help and advice, just because you got caught saying you did something when you didn't. I'm sure you'll get it all figured out and it will be bitchin' once it is all said and done. :thumbup:

[bamachem]

wow. very interesting indeed.

i did not plate my frame. i had a heavy bumper, hi-lift jack, and tire carrier with a 35" MTZ on an aluminum alloy wheel. the frame flexed like mad and needed to be plated all the way back to the arch over the axle. i never got around to it before selling it. something that will eventually need to be addressed. these frames flex a tremendous amount. i had 16" of contact on both sides and the bottom of my frame mounts. that stiffened up the rear section just fine. however, it moved the flex point to the area of the frame right next to the coil buckets. that became the new pivot point in the frame, if you will. makes sense due to the fact that point is where the weight of the truck is supported for the entire rear end.

if you have a bumper, good for you. be careful what you do with it.

if you add 80# of tire and wheel, on a lever out past the end of the frame rail as well as 4' above it, then you're asking for trouble (eventually) if you do not plate the frame all the way back to the arch over the axle.

the part i don't get is why you would LIE about something like that...

[Ric]

bamachem and the other gurus, Im thinking about doing a tire carrier later, so do you think just reinforcing the frame to the arch, on one side of the frame would be ok ? should I have it done on a side and top or bottom of the frame ? or top, bottom and a side ? and exactly how far up ? just to, the arch ? to the front/start of the arch ?
Sorry for all the questions, I respect your thoughts and opinions, as I know the you guys have done this, I want to learn from you :thumbup:

[Lee]

my bumper was pretty heavy too... i didnt plate my frame, but i used a toy hitch that was flipped upside down as the main frame mount, then added 2 crossmembers. i never had any problems and wheeled that thing hard and hit the crap out of it.

in fact, it held up to a LOT of the truck's weight being planted on it, when i went to climb a rockface and slid back down and became lodged in there...

i dont know that plating is MUST but it's good advice.

[BruceTS]

Im thinking about doing a tire carrier later, so do you think just reinforcing the frame to the arch, on one side of the frame would be ok ?


Just plate the outside of each frame rail, that should be enough, plating top and bottom won't do much but add weight. If you have a body lift, you can make the plates wider and extend above the frame, the problem is it would be a PITA to weld and most likely you'll have to undo the body mounts then lift the body to get a torch in there.

[Ric]

ok thankx Bruce and lee.. greatly appreciated :thumbup:

Blake sorry for jackin your thread.

[Vermejo]

When I had a swing carrier I had zero problems with my frame rails. How does a hitch that attaches hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds to a frame differ from a loaded bumper? I'm not going to support anyone in this argument because I'm only referring to the Irbis bumper I used to own (mentioned earlier in the thread). I guess I missed the thread that dealt with bent 3rd Gen frames due to heavy bumpers; someone please queue me in. The safety issue is in the hardware and piviot that attaches the swing gate to the bumper. All the force goes to the pivot and associated welds. Many have had this point snap on makes beyond Toyota. Logically, people should be more concerned with sliders that under impact would bend the frame. How about a winch mounted away from the frame rails like mine. Seems a side-pull would twist the rails through my 1/8th TJM. If a crash can bend a frame; rockcrawling is not far behind. These trucks are not designed to do either. If I was really concerned I'd plate the frame front to rear, throw in a few cross-members and leave the truck in my garage. Better safe than sorry... Right?

I’m not vouching for anyone’s bumper because I’ve only abused mine

[bamachem]

nobody is worried about frame bending. they are worried about frame flexing. bending is when something deforms and doesn't spring back. flexing with a steel bumper attached to the frame can cause contact between the steel bumper and the paint - not good on a rig that you're not beating on. the OEM bumper is attached to the BODY with the tow hitch attached to the frame. there is a ~1" gap between the two to allow for frame flex under tounge weight loading when towing. attach a steel bumper to the flexible frame and then you realize how much the frame moves. if you don't plan for that, then you can do some pretty serious body damage.

[Ric]

do you think a 3/4 gap, away from the body and bumper is a safe bet ?

[Vermejo]

nobody is worried about frame bending. they are worried about frame flexing. bending is when something deforms and doesn't spring back. flexing with a steel bumper attached to the frame can cause contact between the steel bumper and the paint - not good on a rig that you're not beating on. the OEM bumper is attached to the BODY with the tow hitch attached to the frame. there is a ~1" gap between the two to allow for frame flex under tounge weight loading when towing. attach a steel bumper to the flexible frame and then you realize how much the frame moves. if you don't plan for that, then you can do some pretty serious body damage.




I completely agree that the bumper must be spaced from the body appropriately; many have dents under their taillights and on gates due to bumper contact. My new bumper was built an inch off the body, possibly not enough. I think inhibiting the movement rather than increasing the tolerances of fit is an uncertain approach. I’m not an expert, so don’t take my word.

I mentioned “bending” in response to possible frame damage; noted in earlier posts. I referenced this only to my old Irbis and my experience.

When we started my new bumper we almost fixed the side wings to the body to combat this issue. We would have boxed the area from the pinch to the lip above the vent hole, under and to the inside facing the rails. The rear would have been built like a standard truck bumper, resulting in a 3-piece bumper. We decided against it questioning whether an upward force would move the box and cause damage.

[Wingnut]

nobody is worried about frame bending. they are worried about frame flexing.


I'm not following - are you talking about the rear of the frame flexing up and allowing a steel bumper to contact the body? Or the body flexing in off-camber and contacting the bumper?

Anyway, I've got Jake's old Irbis. Right after I bolted it on I ran Miners Revenge (4) and only had minor rubbing at the pinch weld. So I just trimmed about 3/4" on the pinch weld behind the wheels for added clearance.I also added a few washers at the mounting bolts to level out the bumper and provide additional clearance at the front of the side wings. That trail is pretty much the limit for this truck. The more I see other rear bumper builds, the more I appreciate the Irbis.

Ric - From my (limited) experience I'd say 3/4" clearance should be sufficient for typical IFS trail riding and mild to medium rock crawling. If you require more then I'd say you aren't in a typical situation where you'd really be concerned with the sheet metal on your ride.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/111db/Miner%20Revenge/MinersRevenge03-08-08100.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v416/111db/Miner%20Revenge/MinersRevenge03-08-08181.jpg

[bigwapitijohnny]

I think the answer to my question about getting a tire carrier has been answered. Also, my decision to go with Armorology has been re-confirmed. Thanks for the infromation guys.

As far as Blake's reaction is concerned, I really don't know what to think... :headscratch: 'The art of designis how you communicate your message to said audience'...

Regards,

BWJ

[4Runner202020]

I think the answer to my question about getting a tire carrier has been answered. Also, my decision to go with Armorology has been re-confirmed. Thanks for the infromation guys.

As far as Blake's reaction is concerned, I really don't know what to think... :headscratch: 'The art of design is how you communicate your message to said audience'...

Regards,

BWJ


he didn't design it him self... so you using his quote kinda confuses me... he ventured out and tried a new place and some like and some dont... i think we all (who most have except for one) need to drop it and let it go. he made his decision he's gettin it plated and he's takin all the good constructive criticism and in the end he will do what he wants and keep in mind what he all said when he makes that decision.

bobby

[bigwapitijohnny]

Bobby,

The issue at hand is not the design WHATSOEVER, it is the way he 'communicated his message to said audience' :lliar: Having other members, based upon their own experiences, bring up issues (as well as their solutions) is what gives strength to this forum. Remember, these guys were only trying to help. I respect Blake for venturing out and going with CBI. However, being able to accept and consider additional insights and solutions, with humility and honesty, goes without saying. Integrity, to some, is worth more than an $800 bumper...I know that I will 'read' Blake's post about snorkel installation when I get around to doing it, and if I have additional questions, I will ask him because he knows more about this than I do.

Consider this issue 'dropped' with me...Have a good day... :thumbup:

Regards,

BWJ

[BruceTS]

When I had a swing carrier I had zero problems with my frame rails. How does a hitch that attaches hundreds, if not thousands, of pounds to a frame differ from a loaded bumper?



the OEM bumper is attached to the BODY with the tow hitch attached to the frame. there is a ~1" gap between the two to allow for frame flex under tounge weight loading when towing.

The difference is in load force, when towing a trailer, the majority of the downward force is on the trailer, if loaded properly. An offroad bumper that weighs 130 lbs then you attach an additional 130 lbs(tire, highlift and 2 fuel cans) on a fulcrum. Now drive down a dirt road at speed, hit a bump or a rut that increases the impact effect greatly. Nothing may occur from the first hit, but repeated hits will eventually take it's toll.

Back to the bumper at hand, look at the mounting points and compare that to the factory trailer hitch, the hitch had a vertical piece that extends back past the bolts. The problem I see with this bumper is there's only a 2" x 1/4"(could be thicker, but won't matter) flat stock bolting to the frame and a 1/2" vertical plate welded to it, only supported by a single bolt going through a section of the frame that is less than an 1/8" thick. that's like drilling a 3/4" hole in the exposed end of your frame, then installing a shackle to tow with. It will work, but eventually the metal will fatigue and failure will occur. The side wing supports don't supply enough strength for the vertical loading that the back half of the bumper will see.

There's a reason why I have a 1" gap between the body and bumper, that should be considered the minimum for a 3rd gen 4Runner. To hide this gap I used weatherstripping, not only does this give it a more finished look, but also acts and a bumpstop, preventing metal to metal contact. Will this prevent all body damage? Heck no! but it will prevent most. Look at Charles, when he got hit from behind, no body damage and the bumper had a very minor bend in the top plate. Then again, I backed into a boulder going full throttle, hit so hard that I didn't even want to look at the amount of damage I sustained. The body and bumper flexed so hard that the top plate was driven into the left rear panel under the tail light, then sprung back. The measured gap was just over 2", that's right 2" of movement, but some was due to running a 1 1/2" body lift, causing more deflection to occur. Now there have been times that I came down on ledges, hit very hard, to the point where the top plate deformed, but no body damage due to the rubber stripping.




I guess I missed the thread that dealt with bent 3rd Gen frames due to heavy bumpers; someone please queue me in.

Not sure if I've seen frames bend, but 2 have busted the spring pockets out due to excessive flexing. FearToys was the first and mine was the second, look up the thread when I rebuilt mine. You'll then understand how weak our 3rd gen frames really are.



How about a winch mounted away from the frame rails like mine. Seems a side-pull would twist the rails through my 1/8th TJM.


The reason why a winch won't pull through the bumper is simply due to the load force being spread over a large surface area, and the boxed in design gives it that much more strength. Now the frame mounts is another issue, those are weak and will eventually crack if you do alot of tugs. Even after adding additional bracing(specifically for side pulls), my brackets failed. Since then I added much more support and even thinking about building my own mounts from scratch. BTW watch the front flex when winching, eventually I'll need to gusset the front half of the frame, I can see a few spots where stress cracks appear to be forming(the paint is chipped)




I completely agree that the bumper must be spaced from the body appropriately; many have dents under their taillights and on gates due to bumper contact. My new bumper was built an inch off the body, possibly not enough. I think inhibiting the movement rather than increasing the tolerances of fit is an uncertain approach. I’m not an expert, so don’t take my word.

You don't want to prevent the flex between the body and frame unless you plan to run a full race cage. But by adding some sort of material to dampen the effects during contact is the best approach. When I first designed my bumper, I purchased a bunch of round urethane bumpstops. the plan was to build mounts off the body that just touched the bumper on the inside, so during flex this prevented contact. I never installed them because the weatherstripping did such a good job.



This is to benefit anyone else that decided to install this bumper.....The problem I see with the CBI bumper, won't be much of an issue, if you don't wheel it. In the near future, body damage and tailgate damage is going to occur. Now in the longer run, frame damage will happen, the bumper will start to sag and eventually the frame flexing will cause cracks to appear. Most likely in the spring pocket plates, since the factory design is flawed and has a weak point(which can be fixed with a simple gusset). The easiest way to fix the issue with the bumper is to make a 1/4" thick "L" shape bracket that can slide inside the frame, then utilize the 4 holes in the bumper to mount(2 on the side, 2 on the bottom). To make it easy weld nuts to the plate, since it would be difficult to get a wrench that deep inside the frame. Also drill 2 holes for clearance from the factory nuts welded inside the rail, this will allow the bracket to sit flush.

[Vermejo]

Bruce, your points make good sense, we could debate for days. I guess the direction I am going is that in the grand scheme of things our trucks will face many failures, both minor and major, if we wheel them hard enough. Through conversation like this we can solve some issues before they become problems. The hard part is that failure is the best way to learn.

[BruceTS]

we could debate for days.

This has already been discussed in great detail years ago on TOF.......

[Whitey]

I was wondering to myself why this hadn't been mentioned earlier. Bruce, I assume you are talking about the "end cap mod" that folks have been doing for the front end of the frame rails when installing bumpers, correct?

http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd246/jrwhite13/endcap.jpg
http://i220.photobucket.com/albums/dd246/jrwhite13/img_2618.jpg

[BruceTS]

I was wondering to myself why this hadn't been mentioned earlier. Bruce, I assume you are talking about the "end cap mod" that folks have been doing for the front end of the frame rails when installing bumpers, correct?

No not an end cap mod, but similar. This would be an aprox. 12" long "L" bracket that would slide into the frame rail bolted in place. Similar to how the factory used a bracket with 2 nuts welded to it, to attach the trailer hitch.

BTW I would have mentioned this earlier, if I had gotten a straight answer.....I'll leave it at that.

[Ric]

Bruce,
I for one, greatly appreciates when someone comes in, with REAL WORLD EXPERIANCE, and actually, answers the questions posted, in the detail that you did. Thank You.
For me, that helps explain ALOT :bowdown:
Wingnut,
Ive been known to take the harder line from time to time :roll: Ive just been both, very lucky, and had excellent spotters with me. but I am startin to "settle down" a little, lol gotta keep that "mall crawler" image going, lol

[Rock Slide]

Bruce, good points on the CBI bumper.

Question - How about a non-tire carrier bumper? Not just a CBI, but would any standard steel bumper (similar to yours, armorology or the like) still cause issues with the frame? If so, is it a good idea to do some type of frame reinforcement on these as well? Reason I ask is, I see a lot of guys installing new aftermarket bumpers (no tire carrier) and never hear them mention any thing about frame reinforcement? I would like to add a standard rear bumper later on down the road, but do not want to create issues with my frame by doing so. Granted I do not wheel my 4Runner as hard as many here do, but I do wheel it. Thoughts?

[Lee]

all bumpers need to be properly structured, a crossmember will help, 2 is better. a tire carrier will definitely cause a LOT more stress, so i wouldnt worry as much with just a regular bumper.

[bamachem]

all bumpers need to be properly structured, a crossmember will help, 2 is better. a tire carrier will definitely cause a LOT more stress, so i wouldnt worry as much with just a regular bumper.


bingo.

[BruceTS]

Put it this way, I never had any issues with my bumper til after I added a tire carrier. It can more than double the load force on the frame. That is why it's a good idea to plate it as well. I plan to, once my plasma cutter shows up, especially since I relocated the fuel tank. In my case I had already strengthen the back section with the new spring pockets, but the way I drive, I'll still need the extra strength.

Actually no additional crossmembers are needed, since the flexing comes from vertical loading. Only way to reduce this is either by adding a cage or plating the frame. Another thing you have to consider is Toyota designed that section of the frame to be a crush point, so in a rear end accident it can fold up.

[Rock Slide]

Interesting..thanks for all the info. :thumbup:

[bigwapitijohnny]

My rear bumper from Armorology was heavier than that of my factory bumper with the OEM hitch, but not by much. Also, Jed did not recommend that I get a tire carrier + fuel cans + hi-lift...His concern was about frame issues as well...Great minds think alike :D

As I said before...The question about getting a tire carrier added to my rear bumper has been answered :shake:...Thanks all for the insight :thumbup:. Have a great day all!

Regards,

BWJ

[bamachem]

actually, cross-members can help with the vertical frame flexing. the current crossmembers are very weak and don't do much to equalize movement between the frame rails. by adding some stiff crossmembers, you are essentially forcing both frame rails to flex in unison instead of independently. in doing so, you can get a LOT of additional stiffness out of the rear frame section. this should ONLY be done in addition to plate reinforcement along the vertical sections of the frame rails though. you don't want a crossmember to pull a 1/8" thick section of frame wall out/off. that wouldn't be a good thing at all.

[slosurfer]

Blake, you do realize that you are more than welcome to come back.


Unlike some other places! (http://www.yotatech.com/f169/return-banned-144846/#post50846817)

Everyone gets a little kooky every once in awhile. This thread now has a ton of good tech in it and it wouldn't take much to redeem yourself.

[Chaplain]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0148.jpg
http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0146.jpg


I actually like the style of this bumper a lot. Add a couple back-up lights, an amber, along with some of our rear world wheeling experience (brace the frame up and correct some of the bumpers mounting points) and I think its a winner? Yes/No? or would a guy be better to go with another vender altogether?

Next question for discussion: Is a guy better off mounting his junk (spare, fuel ect) on a solid roof rack then on the rear bumper? (considering the above discussion of using a bumper as a lever against a weak frame) Ever since my autocross/timetrial racing days I've always been a big fan of having a LCG but I don't like having all that weight out the back either. It seems like a lose lose when it comes to bombing through the desert and caring gear in a 4Runner. What's the answer (I already have the 4runner and its paid for)??

Bruce, are you taking orders for your bumpers?

[Good Times]

Steve,

Throwing things up top would definitely do a number on the cog and also the wind resistance. Throwing it on the back would be as bad because it will reduce your departure angle. Plus all of the weight that gets thrown in the back end of the truck too! You're best bet is to put everything inside of the 4runner and put the weight in the dead center at the lowest point possible in the cabin. The only problem is that you lose a lot of cabin space now that it's all inside.

[Chaplain]

Lance,
I hear what your saying for sure, and for those of us that actually use or should I say abuse our rigs, weight in the wrong places can have catastrophic results at best.
In the back of my 4runner I have a pit box (tools, parts & fluids) and various things that I don't want out in the elements all strapped down no higher then the top of seats. Cooler is on floor behind driver seat, easy access for co-dog to get to.
Extras that need a home are:
My spare - currently in oem location underneath
Race truck spare? - on top or on a bumper
Fuel? - I hate how small the runners tank is plus I need to carry extra fuel for the race truck. I've carried it inside, but I usually end up sleepy with a cab smelling like fuel at best or a mess at worse.
Any suggestions?

[Good Times]

Hey steve,

lets start a separate thread on this discussion. it's a real good one that deserves one of it's own.

[Chaplain]

Hey steve,
lets start a separate thread on this discussion. it's a real good one that deserves one of it's own.

Lance,
Sure thing! But first I want Bruce to chime in on the bumper in this discussion (CBI).
Could this bumper be made to perform up to real wheeling world standards or would a guy be better off to start with a different venders bumper? (this questions is open for discussion not just for Bruce)

Location of schtuff discussion please go here: http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=4972.0

[Chaplain]

Check it out: CBI take's note and builds a new/improved bumper for the Gen 3 4runner. http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=8211.new#new

[Ric]

Blake, you do realize that you are more than welcome to come back.


Unlike some other places! (http://www.yotatech.com/f169/return-banned-144846/#post50846817)

sweet, thankx awesome, and yes, we all get a little silly from time to time...

Everyone gets a little kooky every once in awhile. This thread now has a ton of good tech in it and it wouldn't take much to redeem yourself.

[AlexJet]

http://i101.photobucket.com/albums/m68/neliconcept/IMG_0158.jpg



It looks a little open from my point of view. Why you didn't made a full coverage bumper (same idea as 4th Gen)?

[neliconcept]

Alex you mean down to the frame rails? I really let Steve design it the way he was wanting to, so really i didnt know how it was coming, he just hinted along the process how it may turn out.

not a damnnn thing has happened to my frame since i put it on, and btw frame is still not plated. and its been nearly a year and half since its been on. and i have done several trails with it.

FUNNY NOTE:!!!! ferrari backed into it today, and 430 f1 with black wheels dragged its damn bumper out of the parking lot as soon as i saw it, i almost busted my chops on the ground it was so damn funny.

so far the bumper has taken 5 hits from random cars, ive backed into fences just to clear other crap, its stout. the crossmember holding both frame ends together is what i think keeps it from flexing to much, it flexs some though,