Veronica gets new facelift, the runner SAS plans

[neliconcept]

Ok before you get all, wtf why? stuff, i want to be able to run bigger tires, looks and functionability. Also strength is a concern, my steering is giving me a lot of bump steer lately and when I stop and hit a bump it wants to shift the thing almost a lane over.

my UCAs are squeaking and pissing me off, yes i have used everything to lube them, you name it, ive used it.

plans?

All pro SAS 3 link kit front.
Diamond housing for 8" HP LC front and LC longfield shafts. 80 outers and knuckles
rear diamond housing for 9.5" LC with FF setup (researching so yes im not exactly sure what ill do with the rear totally yet)
Leaf the rear or 4 link wishbone setup.

JEReel driveshafts.
steering kit from Allpro
39" krawlers (if they still make that size)
or a 37-40 of some sort.

17" rock monster wheels for a 100 series landcrusiser, means 5x150mm bolt pattern, but they are the sexiest wheels i have ever seen.

Armor. Stubbs double kickouts. plate work on front and rear arches. Bodylift stays but i will play the areas where the pucks are for insurance that they dont go through the body.

Custom designed by me front fiberglass fenders, right side will have cutout for snorkel.
custom rear bumper probablly by somebody but designed somewhat like the rear stinger carriers from spyder customs.
armorology front with 9.5ti

Im going to get things in pieces, probably the allpro kit ill buy part by part.
this will take a year to gather up stuff, then build time should end up being not so bad.

some heard me say, ill never SAS, yeah im full of ####. If you havent noticed im full of #### half the time, then you havent read most of my comments.

I may be full of #### now, but hopefully not. at least i wasnt full of it when i said i was going to convert, one thing i actually went through with.

pictures of stuff.

for fenders

similar to but not quite so far out and so high up

http://aycu15.webshots.com/image/39574/2005753784717748187_rs.jpg

http://aycu28.webshots.com/image/38387/2005779874794585788_rs.jpg

for the fenders they will slant down from hood at 60 to 70 degrees and then flatten out at about 15 or 10 degrees, would be about 1" wider then the flares are now on each side, and would be about 4.5 to 5" rise compared to fenders now.

ok wheels?

rock monster LC wheels, now if they can make these in a 6 bolt pattern with the same look, ill take em, but since i doubt thats possible, ill take em as is.

http://www.rockmonsterwheels.com/graphics/Wheel%20spec%20pages/wheel550.gif

they are beadlocked, but internal, similar to staun but not exactly, also two piece wheels i think.

rear bumper will look similar to this

https://www.spydercustoms.com/Bumpers/5120_lg.jpg

instead of tying in the side supports to the body, id have hoops on the sides of the body it would tie into.

front? see Rics bumper, just silver :)

roof rack would be 46x79 AO.

still do not know on the width of the axles.

thats it for now.

start flaming if you will :)

[4runnerchevy]

Ambitious are we? Nice! Keep us up to date.

[YotaFun]

YOU PIECE OF SHIT!!! YOU SOLD ME YOU WOULD NEVER FUCKING SAS!!!

Okay, flaming done.
Seriously dude, think this trough, I thought veronica was only going to be an expedition rig, and then you were gonna build a buggy?
I am sorta going that route, but I am going to build up and SAS an 1st gen or older pickup (if I can't land one already with the SFA)

But keep your research up.
Keep us posted.
Will anticipate the finish product if you really do decide to do this.
I will be convince the day I see you cut out the IFS :D

[neliconcept]

be convinced when i start buying parts.

I decided i can make it into an expedition rig and a crawler, as long as I keep the tube work a minimum (no #^$#^#$ exo dangit)

going internal cage, ill have side hoops behind the rear fender flares.

Im going to keep the money only towards maintence issues on the truck for now, if i need new tires, ill get some cheap streets or all terrain tires like nitto TGs in a 285 or 295.

id love to build a buggy, but for how i wanna do that, its gonna cost 5x more then this.

im debating spyder 9 housings as well. but this is going to be a long research project.

will research designs, and will start piecing parts, its still my DD and will remain my DD.

[YotaFun]

Yeah tubing needs to stay inside, and only out where needed.

Yeah money well spent, plus how about getting that speedo working again?

Which reminds me, I thought there were issues in SAS'ing a 01 or 02 runner?

This is ture but at least you can take your time to build the buggy and still have the runner as a DD.

Another question, you still going to do that Turbo?

[neliconcept]

Yeah tubing needs to stay inside, and only out where needed.

Yeah money well spent, plus how about getting that speedo working again?

Which reminds me, I thought there were issues in SAS'ing a 01 or 02 runner?

This is ture but at least you can take your time to build the buggy and still have the runner as a DD.

Another question, you still going to do that Turbo?


yeah should have mentioned engine work with turbo so yes.
SASing a 4wd 01 is a problem, because of the VSC for 4wd, also i think A-trac? no idea. but anyways, no problems here, i already have a different front end under my truck in the front anyways. not gonna make any difference.

Plus i want to get ABS back so id go with 80 outers. but VSC i couldnt care less for keeping. and yeah ill have speedo fixed as well.

but im gonna try and keep it somewhat low even with 2" bodylift, just means i have more room to mount coilovers up front. and go with 3" springs out back at most with 2" shackles id assume, or i could figure out a way to use coils like a LC setup but still debating.

ill start picking up shock mounts and link mounts soon from AP and links. coilovers will follow later, then rear suspension after.

after that has been gathered, ill start looking for axle internals pieced out. then ill save up for the housings and then tires and wheels, bumpers will be last and ill probably do those after the SAS has been done anyways. ill keep my CBI bumper, but take off the carrier and work with the rear stinger drop down. that will be 1.5 years to 2 years from now anyways. lets see otherwise, fenders will also be after the SAS has been done, roofrack and other things not portaining to the actual swap.

4.88 diff gears with a turbo should be perfect.

over and out and time to get some food.

[calrockx]

you talk a big game.
must be nice being a millionaire.

[neliconcept]

you talk a big game.
must be nice being a millionaire.


lol i try, but to be honest, im dead serious on this one, its gonna take time, but its gonna happen one way or another.

[YotaFun]

you talk a big game.
must be nice being a millionaire.


x2
But I would still strongly debate it.
Runners like Mossy's and StevO's make me want to do it.
But then I see the PA TTora guy's and there SAS Extended cabs with Tubed beds that makes me want to go that direction.

I don't have the money so I don't know what I would do.
I am honestly myself leaning towards following the line of the PATTora guys.
As much as an SAS'ed 3rd Gen is sexy, there just to pretty lol!
I can't believe I said that, but yeah, but to each there own.

[Marc P]

Some people have more money than sense :flipoff: J/K

Good luck with the build.

[Bighead]

An SAS due to some steering issues and a squeak? I hope you have thought long and hard about this. It looks to me like you are making a buggy with a 4Runner body. Why not just build an F-Toy or a truggy?

[4runnerchevy]

I wouldn't worry about what someone else did. Leap, don't look where your going to land, its a better experience. Besides I want to see the finished product.

[neliconcept]

An SAS due to some steering issues and a squeak? I hope you have thought long and hard about this. It looks to me like you are making a buggy with a 4Runner body. Why not just build an F-Toy or a truggy?


those were just smallllll issues, its bigger then that, i dont have room for two toys to work with. ive seen many daily driven and i know this could be too.

[Cheese]

Not to jump the bandwagon, but...

Bumpsteer with IFS rack and pinion?

Build whatever you want. You won't want to DD a truck like that for long, I have one.

[Good Times]

my first thoughts "wow". after rereading everything you want to do, I've got to say "wow" again.

Not sure what trails you've encountered but is a sas really that necessary for the trails that you want to do? I really question this (even if money is not an issue) because I've seen Bruce (3rd gen IFS crawler) do some amazing stuff. So with this in mind, I really think to myself "is a SAS really that needed?"

In your case I've never seen you hit the trails so I'm not sure but with the current setup you have I definitely would want to break some stuff before even wanting to go SAS. Those that have gone the SAS have finally upgraded their IFS crap only because they've broken just about every part of their IFS but in your case I am seriously concerned as to what your underlined motivations are.

As for the laundry list of items you have, it's pretty impressive. Looks like you've done some homework and researched quite abit to get the "I want" list in there. The Poison Spyder rear tire carrier concept is really sick (something I was originally going to do) but decided not to. Here's my beef. The tire will be VERY HEAVY and trying to lift it up will be hard. I built a similar setup on my rear bumper and after lifting and folding the 35's on there I've cut it off and will be going with a different setup. Definitely sexy but after some personal experiences I definitely will be going back to the side hinged setup.

If you truly do plan to do this, I recommend you study Adrian's setup as I really think it's one awesome vehicle. Though I haven't seen it in person, looking at pictures and details of the build just makes me drool. He really did a great job on the build so that'd be one vehicle I would want to follow closely if I had the funds to do something like what you are attempting to do. Another member would be 4mogger on pirate. Though he has a second gen it's still a sick setup :)

good luck and definitely create a new thread on the build up. sounds like a good 1-2 year build. have fun!

[YotaFun]

You know Blake,
You could Just keep your setup you have now,
And by StevO's runner :-D
Just a thought.

[neliconcept]

thanks Lance, thanks for the input on the rear tire stinger, i may see if its possible to make it a swing out but who knows.

as for everybody else, done yet? i know its a hard thing to imagine, but id rather have input on the list of parts and concepts i have rather then, wtf are you thinking, why???

too much to ask pleeeeeeaseee,,,, pretty please? :)

[ecchamberlin]

We all build what we build for different reasons. I talked to a Jeep guy once that though my building my rig on the 4Runner platform was the most stupid thing he had ever seen. Whatever....

I have a question about the diamond axles. Why go this route instead of finding a Dana 44? Is it that much stronger and if it is, would that make the front axle disproportionately stronger than the rear? What I mean is, would the strength of the front get you into stuff that rear cannot handle and break? And, cost diff between buying/rebuilding a 44 vs a diamond?

[neliconcept]

Ive heard good and bad about the D44 as far as outers go. For the Diamond its more along the lines of the housing being stronger then a D44. Custom options on width and what you want to put in it, wether you want to use a birfield or go with U joints.

as far as the setup, its basically a setup from a FZJ80 that i want to use, except ill be using stronger housings and beeifer axle shafts and outers. Along with cryoed R&P setups. I could go D44, but keeping the stock rear and using a 37 or 39 will not let it hold up well after some abuse. Brad (mossyrocks) can atune to that.

9.5 is a big rear and if you have ever seen the blue uzj100 that Cristo built, he has that diff in the front diamond and also the stock 100 rear also a 9.5

Right now i need to research over and over. my ideas are just a basic outline at the time.

[Good Times]

some other items to check out:

Tom Wood's Driveshafts! (http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html) - good stuff
Portal Axles (why not right? go big or go home!) - better stuff
Pop up roof? check this bad boy out!!! (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ronaldbrunner.ch%2Fpr ojekte%2Fhdj100.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) - awesome stuff

Hutchinson Beadlocks rock! If I could do it I'd get this one

http://www.rockmonsterwheels.com/graphics/Wheel%20spec%20pages/wheel0566.gif

Like I said if the world's the limit then might as well go big :) If I can find some other saved links I'll post em up. Gotta go thru the hundreds of links I have on cool stuff I want!

[slosurfer]

Lance, that pop up is awesome, I just put that in my favorites.

Blake, looks like a crazy list, it will be interesting to see how it turns out. Is the allpro kit a hydro assist kit? If you think you wander now, wait till you are on 40's.

[neliconcept]

Lance, that pop up is awesome, I just put that in my favorites.

Blake, looks like a crazy list, it will be interesting to see how it turns out. Is the allpro kit a hydro assist kit? If you think you wander now, wait till you are on 40's.


allpro has a 3 link kit that can be added to a lot of different front end applications, they also have crossover steering, id go hydro most likely. PSC probablly.

[YotaFun]

some other items to check out:

Portal Axles (why not right? go big or go home!) - better stuff



OOOOO Portals would be cool, and you would be the First Runner with them :-D

[neliconcept]

some other items to check out:

Tom Wood's Driveshafts! (http://www.4xshaft.com/index.html) - good stuff
Portal Axles (why not right? go big or go home!) - better stuff
Pop up roof? check this bad boy out!!! (http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ronaldbrunner.ch%2Fpr ojekte%2Fhdj100.htm&langpair=de%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8) - awesome stuff

Hutchinson Beadlocks rock! If I could do it I'd get this one

http://www.rockmonsterwheels.com/graphics/Wheel%20spec%20pages/wheel0566.gif

Like I said if the world's the limit then might as well go big :) If I can find some other saved links I'll post em up. Gotta go thru the hundreds of links I have on cool stuff I want!


yeah i really like the jeep tj rock monster wheels however, i think its only in a 15" wheel? well i plan to go with 4th gen sport brakes or something that requires a 17" wheel, gonna go bigger then what I have now to improve on braking.

portal axles would be nice, but that would put my truck up like another foot in the air to clear the diff with the engine itself. thats my problem that that. depends on the portal boxes too. volvo or mercedes.

hmm popup roof?

if it can be done on my 4runner, ill probablly do it.

[Good Times]

Blake, the wheels are 17" too :) They look exactly like my old AR-23's that I have and really love the 5 spoke design.

You can do the portals with your setup if you want. This just gives you more lift cuz of the portals. As for the diff to clear, that'll be an issue w/ your diamond axles and the lift you get and nothing to do w/ the portals. Portals just lowers your reference point on the center of the wheels below the axle line.

The pop up can be done on any vehicle actually. You just have to find the right fabricator that will do the painful work. It'll have to seal up well cuz if not it'll leak. Fabric will be key too but you'll want to use canvas instead of some synthetic stuff. If you do indeed go this route look into sunbrella fabric as they're the good stuff right now. I've been lurking at something like this for some time so if you want more info I can send em your way :)

Avy, portals have already been done 4mogger's 2nd gen. I don't know of any other 4runner w/ portals but I could be wrong.

[neliconcept]

ahh well ill keep those 17" versions an option too, the other ones with the multispokes just look originally different and good.
well it depends on what axles i decide to put the portal boxes on, but essentially it moves the axle up from the wheel hub center and creates clearance issues with the pan and engine that ive heard. (though i could be very much wrong) and can be done lower, but then that creates articulation issues.

their is a guy that did it with the landcruiser that has great articulation running 40s i think, gotta check his out.

[YotaFun]

Ah did not know that Sir Lance.
Still would be cool though.

Blake, I believe you could use the oil pan from the T100 3.4L for the clearance issues, but I could be wrong.

[neliconcept]

Ah did not know that Sir Lance.
Still would be cool though.

Blake, I believe you could use the oil pan from the T100 3.4L for the clearance issues, but I could be wrong.


yes i think its mandatory regardless of portals or not.

idea of my fenders.. rough sketch, half buzzed for forgive me :)

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2474/imgoc7.jpg

if i find something similar that has been done to what i want to do, ill post up.

[YotaFun]

Ah Now I can imagine the fender description.
Very cool.

[Ric]

I can see both sides of this, on one side, I say learn to wheel IFS first, and when your doing the hardcore trails, and starting to break stuff, THEN, do the solid axle, but learn not only the rigs (ifs) limits AND yours, then do it.....
On the other side, "Its your money, do what YOU want with it" who cares what others think.... either way, I wanna help :D

Now I know that Im not doing the "hardcore" trails, but the trails that I do run, Ill try the harder lines, and IFS hasnt let me down yet...
I remember running, I think it was possibly Moody Hill, and a section (not the quarry) someone saying "what ya doing, thats the solid axle line" I made just fine, my point is with a good spotter and some skill (ok luck :hillbill:) IFS works :thumbup: Blake I dont think that you, will ever "need" a solid axle rig, but if you "want" it, go for it :thumbup:

[4runnerchevy]

2 cents

If you start taking the harder lines with your IFS then your bound to break something. Ifs stuff is more exspensive and there is more to break. Where will your money go then ? Either do the SAS or buy a Solid Rig. imo.

[xonetruthcrewx]

I was always taught that if i Dont have something positive to say, dont say anything at all. Usually i dont follow that. This time however i will because what i want to say would be pretty harsh and i dont want to start a load of sh*t here. Just listen to the ones telling you not to do it. Their reasoning is good and they are experienced wheelers.

[Cheese]

I have mounted a set of those beadlocks. They are nice until you have to take them apart. They are also close to the heaviest SOB's I have ever touched. DOT approved officially though.

With respect to Diamonds versus anything else, it gives you strength and choices. You also have, in a fabricated housing, something that you can cut/weld/mess with, without worry, no cast issues, etc.

What you are suggesting approaches 10k in just axles without going really exotic to Spider 9's.

Thanks Lance, but again, you won't want to DD a truck like you describe.

If you want a real nice driver/expedition/as hard as you should wheel a bodied truck, get an 80 and never look back.

[neliconcept]

I have mounted a set of those beadlocks. They are nice until you have to take them apart. They are also close to the heaviest SOB's I have ever touched. DOT approved officially though.

With respect to Diamonds versus anything else, it gives you strength and choices. You also have, in a fabricated housing, something that you can cut/weld/mess with, without worry, no cast issues, etc.

What you are suggesting approaches 10k in just axles without going really exotic to Spider 9's.

Thanks Lance, but again, you won't want to DD a truck like you describe.

If you want a real nice driver/expedition/as hard as you should wheel a bodied truck, get an 80 and never look back.


thanks for the advice.

I also forgot to mention, I have a HP 8" at my house and a 9.5" rear already. both elocked,

woops forgot that little gem.

as far as an 80 goes, perfect expedition rig, gas mileage sucks and the engine is underpowered, id rather stick with mine when i get the turbo going.

i think 37s are now in order, 39s maybe just too big, or maybe i could get a set for wheeling harder duties.

and Colin, I'm really interested in what you have to say, i may not give a shit or listen to it, but i do want to hear it.

[neliconcept]

http://www.currieenterprises.com/cestore/images/pageimages/antirock3.jpg

been done on a taco over on pirate, i think he had to shave the rock arms down a little but, would be good to use for a antisway kit and keep the truck leaning down.

As many are thinking right now, death wobble is a concern, yes it is, but if i keep the pinion angle right and make sure caster and all of that is in the right geometry (death wobble really doesnt have much to do with suspension) then i should be alright and it should ride like a gem.

[Good Times]

Blake if $ is no object and you're concerned about power for the 80 how about a diesel conversion? I've been pondering this project too early last year after my 4runner took a dump. With the diesel conversion, power is definitely no object :)

Plus you definitely can do A LOT with an 80! (they're sexy beasts!)

[BruceTS]

One question? Where does a starving college student get that kind of cash?

So much easier and cheaper just to buy SteveO's built rig.

[YotaFun]

One question? Where does a starving college student get that kind of cash?

So much easier and cheaper just to buy SteveO's built rig.


I must be a whisper in the wind lol

[xcmountain80]

Maybe he's a at home pharmaceutics salesman, I know this is a $$ business and he spends money like someone else I know who chose this profession at an early age.


Aaron

[neliconcept]

as much as I love the get SteveO's rig, or get an 80, blah blah, seriously can i just have some advice on parts and other stuff?

and where i get my money is of no consequence, but im a server at a high end resturaunt now.

[Good Times]

Blake, again study Adrian's setup. In my limited experience I would say that's prob an ideal setup. Something I would copy if I had the funds to build something like that. I just wish Adrian was much closer to me so I can physically check it out in person and drool :) I think he's got it all so talk to him about his build.

as for being a server at a high end restaurant, I've got friends who work here in the heart of the riches and I will agree their tips are just insane. Good for you on bustin your butt off cuz I know it's no fun tending to the riches.

Adrian, I had no clue those hutchinson wheels are that heavy. Good thing I have no intentions on changing out my Toyota/OMF wheels :) Still gotta say they look hella sexy!

[Cheese]

I am giving you advice, just not what you want to hear.

Check out the wheels on the Slee Short Bus and briefly on the Blueberry before the Stauns. After doing my OMF's a time or two I am getting faster. A 3/8" impact gun at half speed really does wonders. I am a pretty big monkey, but humping around those things is tough.

Two third members on a 25k project.

If you are putting blinging axles and trying to drive it, make it all links.

Why keep ABS?

If you paid Slee to put on a turbo, 6" kit and all the "stuff" to get it to run 37's, I am guessing you would be into an 80 for 20k.

Negative Nancy? Sure. The thing is, I drive a truck like this. In real life, not just on the internet. I am counting my pennies for a Tundra tow rig.

[neliconcept]

turbo is going on with my brother, i already have the turbo, the timing controller, srt4 injectors, and i also have the intercooler, just short of piping and a boost controller and fuel managment.

I said this would be a long parts gathering, didnt say id get it all at once, i dont give a damn how much its going to cost. im going to do it the way i want, and yes im gonna link it on both ends. and im back to 39s, i want to run ultimate adventure with it, and i found a sponsor to help me with a year long trip overseas with it as well.

lots im not telling you guys.

but if the hutches are that heavy, then i guess i could run 17s and the stauns?

Adrian, i do appreciate your advice as always,

oh and just curious, i saw you driving yesterday, is your rear sagging a lot?

[Mossyrocks]

do what you want to do man. If its done right it will drive ok. But you probably will be looking for a dd a few months afterwards. Portals would be nice about.01% of the time but arent worth the extra height. Also, Id stick to 37s for a dd.

Ive been driving the runner the past 2 weeks just because I missed driving it. But damn the tundra is smooth.

[neliconcept]

do what you want to do man. If its done right it will drive ok. But you probably will be looking for a dd a few months afterwards. Portals would be nice about.01% of the time but arent worth the extra height. Also, Id stick to 37s for a dd.

Ive been driving the runner the past 2 weeks just because I missed driving it. But damn the tundra is smooth.


yeah i think i may just run a dual set of wheels and tires, go with 37s (BFG AT or some non MT tire) on some 17" mickey T classic locks, or something that is a sort of light weight wheel, and run the 17" hutchs with 39 krawlers for the trail.

I forgot to mention this to most. my first car ever was a 78 chevy on 35s and crappy shocks and leafs for 2 years. and i got so used to it that it didnt phase me a bit.

ill keep everyone updated on parts gathering and what not. I have to make some calls this week to Slee, Diamond, ORS and Allpro.

[xcmountain80]

Oh Blake you must be in the pharm sale industry so mush has changed since the last time I saw you..... but your build sounds cool just don't 1/2 ass it. Have fun and thats all I got right now.

AAron

[AxleIke]

Who is going to do this for you?

Sounds ambitious, good luck.

[Lee]

have you decided what youre gonna do about VSC and everything? you may be opening up a really crappy can of worms with all of that. youll have to do something about the engine computer, the abs wiring, the vsc/speed sensors, etc etc etc.

[Lee]

i cant keep too quiet so ill just say this:

i had your rig, except already 4x4. i wanted to sas it really badly but i chose to ditch and get an older truck instead. there are a few reasons for this.

1) all the stuff i mentioned above... vsc/abs/the transmission/stupid awd tcase

2) that truck is worth a lot, cutting up something you can sell for over 12 grand isnt wise, especially when you'll spend about 6-8 getting it all done. so now you'll have like 25 grand invested in a truck thats worth 10 or less.

3) if you insist on doing this, please heed the advice of those who have been there. i just finished helping my friend sas his 98 4r, he used an fj62 axle (perfect width, stronger, cheaper than a diamond by leaps and bounds) and converted to leafs in the rear. he spent somewhere around 7-8 grand to do his and his was a basic 5spd 4x4 without abs.

4)have you actually wheeled the ifs much?? have you picked some harder lines?? try wheeling this thing till youre past it, imo.

[slosurfer]

my steering is giving me a lot of bump steer lately and when I stop and hit a bump it wants to shift the thing almost a lane over.


start flaming if you will :)




I forgot to mention this to most. my first car ever was a 78 chevy on 35s and crappy shocks and leafs for 2 years. and i got so used to it that it didnt phase me a bit.



Seems like you are contradicting yourself here. You want it perfect but are willing to get used to driving a trail rig as a DD? :headscratch: Not flaming here, just pointing out that your story changes as those in the know bring up valid points.

That being said, here are some of my thoughts on your parts.

1. As cool as that rear tire carrier looks, it really isn't very functional for a 4runner, especially as an expedition rig where you need to get stuff out of the back. Remember, the majority of rigs that run a tire carrier like that have open sides to access the rear of their vehicle. They do not have to move it everytime they need to get in the rear of their jeep.

2. As far as the expedition side of the coin and the turbo, adding an experimental turbo probably isn't the best idea. Expedition rigs are more about reliability and availability of parts, especially when traveling overseas, rather than power. It would be cool none the less. :D

3. If you plan on doing ultimate adventure, what's the point of adding expensive "one off" fiberglass that is going to get smashed, especially since you said "No exo!". Might as well trim what you have to make it fit, because it probably won't be a "pretty" truck anymore after the ultimate adventure.

4. I don't know about the axles and all that stuff so I'll keep my trap shut on those. If you pull it off, it will be pretty cool. I think you will be buying another DD anyways to drive while this is all going down.

[AxleIke]

I missed the UA part there.

Yeah, ditch any ideas of this being a pretty truck if you are going to do the UA. It'll get dented, even with an exo. Without, you should start thinking about chopping the roof now, so it hurts less when you do. And plexi glass EVERYTHING. Nothing worse than shattered glass.

This parts list looks great. But the ONLY way you keep this pretty and nice looking is if you NEVER use it to its full potential. If I were building this truck, it would be to run Patriot, Indy, and BV Carnage, along with Billings, and 21 Road.

I know you said for looks as part of it, but man, your truck looks good. The parts you have chosen are top notch, but you simply can't expect the truck to look good if you use them.

Its the whole can't have the cake and eat it too.

Not trying to talk you out of it by any means, just trying to give you the realities of the situation.

[neliconcept]

im sitting on the fence right now, it would be a long process, right now i gotta get the new bumper in idaho falls soon once its finished, and get some new tires on within this semester since mine are starting to show some big wear.

and a change of front end, high 9 diff instead of the HP 8

[Lee]

might as well sas before the tire change if youre gonna do it :)

[BruceTS]

another side note, there have been many that have experienced gear failure in the "lefty" T-cases, if your gonna go this far, you might as well invest in an Atlas trandfer case...

[neliconcept]

another side note, there have been many that have experienced gear failure in the "lefty" T-cases, if your gonna go this far, you might as well invest in an Atlas trandfer case...


where have you seen this? i have about one of 7 leftys, i have not noticed any gear failures.

[Cheese]

First, if you saw me over the weekend, I had been cutting, so the truck was full with 3 saws, people and gear. The rear is sprung soft and needs adjustment.

Let me share a gem, as that seems to be the theme...

Don't hassle another man about his money, women or dog. Your money, women and dog are of no interest to me unless they are mine.

If you are going to do something like this, do not expose it to the net. All potentially interesting tech is going to be shat upon. If a shop is doing it, all the stuff worth sharing is the cool pics at the end.

I did this while working in the business. I posted pics at the end of a pretty neat project as far as cool parts go. First thing was how was it funded, second was why didn't you do this or that. Fact was, the thing was long since done, it was a picture show, not asking for advice.

If you are doing this, you really ought to know about axle tech and such at this point so you don't start flipping parts. If you are having a shop do it, trust them. I pray for the shop that attempts this.

To add some tech, rip out that case you just put in. Custom axles can have either side diff and will get you some real strength.

I bet your truck is worth 15-18k now. Sell it. Buy a 2k with a 3.4 auto and no extra crap. You are going to be farther ahead. All you are keeping out of this truck is a body, frame and limitation.

[neliconcept]

First, if you saw me over the weekend, I had been cutting, so the truck was full with 3 saws, people and gear. The rear is sprung soft and needs adjustment.

Let me share a gem, as that seems to be the theme...

Don't hassle another man about his money, women or dog. Your money, women and dog are of no interest to me unless they are mine.

If you are going to do something like this, do not expose it to the net. All potentially interesting tech is going to be shat upon. If a shop is doing it, all the stuff worth sharing is the cool pics at the end.

I did this while working in the business. I posted pics at the end of a pretty neat project as far as cool parts go. First thing was how was it funded, second was why didn't you do this or that. Fact was, the thing was long since done, it was a picture show, not asking for advice.

If you are doing this, you really ought to know about axle tech and such at this point so you don't start flipping parts. If you are having a shop do it, trust them. I pray for the shop that attempts this.

To add some tech, rip out that case you just put in. Custom axles can have either side diff and will get you some real strength.

I bet your truck is worth 15-18k now. Sell it. Buy a 2k with a 3.4 auto and no extra crap. You are going to be farther ahead. All you are keeping out of this truck is a body, frame and limitation.


thanks,

ill let you all know when im done, no more from me on out.

peace

[BruceTS]

another side note, there have been many that have experienced gear failure in the "lefty" T-cases, if your gonna go this far, you might as well invest in an Atlas trandfer case...


where have you seen this? i have about one of 7 leftys, i have not noticed any gear failures.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=39997.0;highlight=inchworm+lefty



I wouldn't get a left. I know of 3 that have been broken (1 in front of me@Moab) and they use fail gear parts inside it.

[neliconcept]

another side note, there have been many that have experienced gear failure in the "lefty" T-cases, if your gonna go this far, you might as well invest in an Atlas trandfer case...


where have you seen this? i have about one of 7 leftys, i have not noticed any gear failures.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=39997.0;highlight=inchworm+lefty



I wouldn't get a left. I know of 3 that have been broken (1 in front of me@Moab) and they use fail gear parts inside it.



well until he has proven evidence from pictures and other stuff, then i dont take that post as anything true.

i read pirate more then i do MCs board, nothing on the lefty, leaky adapters? thats the installers fault, not inchworm.

[Good Times]

Ron is a very knowledgeable person and one that does not BS around so I wouldn't doubt that he's talking out of his rear. I'm confident he's got stuff to back up his statements.

[neliconcept]

Ron is a very knowledgeable person and one that does not BS around so I wouldn't doubt that he's talking out of his rear. I'm confident he's got stuff to back up his statements.


isnt he employed by Marlin? then i have nothing further to say. like i said inless i see hard evidence of one breaking IE: post under the FJ sites, pirate, YT, ttora, or here. then im not going to take it for granted.

and whats with the fail gear parts phrase. talking about trail gear? nothing in that case is made by trail gear, all AA gears and inchworms adapter.

also, from the breakage, does he know it was the case, not the input shaft? input shafts have failed a lot on MC cases from my pirate scrolling that ive seen. I have an upgraded shaft so i dont care to hear about it.

[Cheese]

Don't you have an upgraded output? That is a common failure point with lots of tire and gear.

Inputs fail less commonly, mostly after upgrade outputs and solid rear diffs.

I didn't mean to say silence the whole thing, I mean to say if you want advice on a project like this, do some homework. Lots of this is pipedream for most so tech is hard to come by.

E-locked 80 rears are a real turd to get broken shafts out of. Semi or full float? Why 5 lug, only for the 14mm studs?

For those looking for logical consistency, etc. look elsewhere.

The difference between 37's and 40's is how much you like keeping glass in the truck.

[neliconcept]

yeah excuse me i meant to say output. sorry

[xcmountain80]

I have a ABS, VSC kill switch. Though no SAS for me I would imagine Blake will have no ABS or VSC but with a SAS why the hell would you need it. I mean yeah it may be nice but why?


Aaron

[neliconcept]

I have a ABS, VSC kill switch. Though no SAS for me I would imagine Blake will have no ABS or VSC but with a SAS why the hell would you need it. I mean yeah it may be nice but why?


Aaron


i already dont have ABS or VSC

[Mossyrocks]

Heres some tech for ya, well sorta. Keep the front and rear 3rds the same, that way you can keep one spare or if you blow out the rear you can just put the front in it and drive out in rear-wheel-drive.

[neliconcept]

Heres some tech for ya, well sorta. Keep the front and rear 3rds the same, that way you can keep one spare or if you blow out the rear you can just put the front in it and drive out in rear-wheel-drive.


ahh thanks for the tidbit

[AxleIke]

Sorry if I came across as bashing Blake.

As with most on the net, I like to webwheel and pretend that I know more than I do.

I'm sure with enough determination, you can get it done, wheel it hard, and keep it nice.

Apologies.

[neliconcept]

Sorry if I came across as bashing Blake.

As with most on the net, I like to webwheel and pretend that I know more than I do.

I'm sure with enough determination, you can get it done, wheel it hard, and keep it nice.

Apologies.


dude no worries at all man, i know how you came across.

[Lee]

I have a ABS, VSC kill switch. Though no SAS for me I would imagine Blake will have no ABS or VSC but with a SAS why the hell would you need it. I mean yeah it may be nice but why?


Aaron
you dont, thats the point.

[xcmountain80]

have you decided what youre gonna do about VSC and everything? you may be opening up a really crappy can of worms with all of that. youll have to do something about the engine computer, the abs wiring, the vsc/speed sensors, etc etc etc.


So if he doesn't need it then why would he bother doing anything at all with it. Just on the curious has anyone ever preserved the abs with a sas? I would imagine it's possible since there are quite a few vehicles that run solids with abs.

Aaron

[Lee]

have you decided what youre gonna do about VSC and everything? you may be opening up a really crappy can of worms with all of that. youll have to do something about the engine computer, the abs wiring, the vsc/speed sensors, etc etc etc.


So if he doesn't need it then why would he bother doing anything at all with it. Just on the curious has anyone ever preserved the abs with a sas? I would imagine it's possible since there are quite a few vehicles that run solids with abs.

Aaron
i didnt know he'd gotten rid of vsc and abs already when i posted that :)

i bet if you found a newer SFA out of a jeep or something you could make the abs work.

[bamachem]

I'll second the motion of selling what you have, and if you MUST do this to a 3rd gen runner, then buy the absolute cheapest 96/97/98 that you can find as a base SR5 and maybe even a 2.7L instead of the 3.4L. you can find one for $4k or less if you get a 2WD. Then, spend your money wisely, and spend it where it counts. Transfer Case, Cryo'd Axles and Gears, obviously Lockers, and then just cut the sheetmetal. do something like mossy and take the top of the cargo area and close in the rear passenger area for dry storage after the seats are removed. do a minimal exo to tie the sliders in with the bumpers - which will also stiffen the fairly weak frame that you're working with. put the spare in the cargo area, as close to being over the rear axle as possible. if you do your homework, and do quite a bit of the work yourself, you can complete all that for around $12k including the purchase of the truck.

at that point, you will have something that's worthy of beating on that can take the abuse.

this isn't meant to insult, or to add to the "crap on your campfire" that's already here, but to even attempt what you are thinking of with a 01/02 runner that still has some decent book value - and then to run it in the UA - is just plain foolish in my opinion. it's obvious that you have high ambitions and that you are wanting to do this in some part for looks - and let's be honest - web notariety. don't blow $10k++++ on trying to be popular on the internet. if you want to do that, invest that same $10k and then you can be popular when it's turned into $100k by the time you're 40. now THAT would be much more impressive than a SAS'd 01/02 runner that has $15k in work done to it and beat to near-death on the UA circuit.

that's my $0.02. don't spend it all at once. :D

[neliconcept]

im not trying to be popular by SASing, i think thats more retarded then useful. i have my reasons.

[d0ubledown]

build an 80 man...seriously. its got almost everything on your list. for what you want to do...theres no sense in chopping up your runner. its come so far and too nice to be hacked up. break your ifs at least once before you cut it out.

but thats just me.

[Cheese]

There are two reasons to swap a truck:
1. Because you need to
2. Because you want to

The need one is pretty easy to logically justify.

In 2004, I had a 95 4Runner with dual ARB's, 5.29 gears, bumpers and a little suspension on 33's. The 3.0 was tired, need a rebuild or replacement and I was not jazzed for either. I found ORS and put in a 3.4 with a crawler.

I was then lucky enough to be headed west with time to wheel. I went all over Arizona, Moab and Colorado. I broke the hell out of this truck. Having paid a shop for an engine swap, I couldn't afford to sell.

So, I was in the business, could do a goodly amount myself and was facing the compromised reliability. I hung an axle because I needed to, but I did it the way I wanted to. Now I have a truck worth 15-17k. Do you want to know how very little of the total cost of these projects that would cover?

Building a simpler truck will save a bunch of unnecessary headache. This is the voice of Christmas past.

If you have a bunch of sponsors lined up from out of town, free parts up the butt and a place to do this for cheap or free, good luck. If you are fishing for ideas, you have heard mine a couple times.

[neliconcept]

There are two reasons to swap a truck:
1. Because you need to
2. Because you want to

The need one is pretty easy to logically justify.

In 2004, I had a 95 4Runner with dual ARB's, 5.29 gears, bumpers and a little suspension on 33's. The 3.0 was tired, need a rebuild or replacement and I was not jazzed for either. I found ORS and put in a 3.4 with a crawler.

I was then lucky enough to be headed west with time to wheel. I went all over Arizona, Moab and Colorado. I broke the hell out of this truck. Having paid a shop for an engine swap, I couldn't afford to sell.

So, I was in the business, could do a goodly amount myself and was facing the compromised reliability. I hung an axle because I needed to, but I did it the way I wanted to. Now I have a truck worth 15-17k. Do you want to know how very little of the total cost of these projects that would cover?

Building a simpler truck will save a bunch of unnecessary headache. This is the voice of Christmas past.

If you have a bunch of sponsors lined up from out of town, free parts up the butt and a place to do this for cheap or free, good luck. If you are fishing for ideas, you have heard mine a couple times.


you just answered one of my points in your post, you said just paying a shop to do the engine swap, you couldnt afford to sell, well since i put 4wd in mine, i cant afford to do ths aemsame. sorry im wasted riht now but whatever.

i have my reasons as I have said.

talk to Taco Chaser on expedition portal if you understand why im doing this.

[AxleIke]

There are a handful of people who've broke their shizzle. CV's don't count.

Cheese had a broke ass truck. Its fixed (mostly) now.

Really, if the man's got the will and the way, whats the harm in letting him go?

Blake,

I see that you are set on doing this, and thats cool. I think you've been given all the "don't do it" advice, so I won't bother.

Let me offer something different.

You are talking about some serious hardware. That is cool and all, but have you given thought to what you're really talking about?

You essentially have a buggy suspension planned out. There is a reason buggies don't drive on road at 75, or go real fast in the dirt. They ain't that great at it. They go real slow, really well.

I guess why this confuses me is that it seems totally contradictory to what you say you wish to accomplish. You want to wheel the trails around CO, UT, and wherever you've got gas to go, right? Including expedition stuff? You also seem to want a nice looking body, so I'm going to assume you aren't going to want to run Patriot, Indy, or BV carnage, correct?

What I see from the above is a guy who wants a reliable truck, with strong components, to run 35-37" tires.

So, to me, this screams going down to the junk yard, picking up a set of domestic axles D44's, cleaning them, stuffing cromo inside, and having a good time. Leaf sprung, and hung, and you suddenly have a simple, reliable truck that is unique, not sky high, and is more than capable to run anything you throw at it.

The parts list you put down is what I'd expect to see from Jim Bob building a comp class rock racer, excepting the tube chassis.

Keep in mind that this shizzle NEVER goes down as planned. I don't care if you have Jesus himself do the swap, there will be kinks, and bugs, and issues that are unforeseen. Cheese is hands down the most knowledgeable guy I've ever met when it comes to this shizzle. He's been chasing demons since the swap started.

The simpler you shizzle is, the easier it is to work on, the easier it is to build, the easier it is to find parts for. One off stuff is cool, until it breaks.

Obviously, your truck, and your call, but you could get everything you want out of this without building a circus.

[Intrepidyota]

Cliffnotes to axles post:


Shizzle, shizzle, shizzle, how many times can I say shizzle in one post? :P

[neliconcept]

There are a handful of people who've broke their shizzle. CV's don't count.

Cheese had a broke ass truck. Its fixed (mostly) now.

Really, if the man's got the will and the way, whats the harm in letting him go?

Blake,

I see that you are set on doing this, and thats cool. I think you've been given all the "don't do it" advice, so I won't bother.

Let me offer something different.

You are talking about some serious hardware. That is cool and all, but have you given thought to what you're really talking about?

You essentially have a buggy suspension planned out. There is a reason buggies don't drive on road at 75, or go real fast in the dirt. They ain't that great at it. They go real slow, really well.

I guess why this confuses me is that it seems totally contradictory to what you say you wish to accomplish. You want to wheel the trails around CO, UT, and wherever you've got gas to go, right? Including expedition stuff? You also seem to want a nice looking body, so I'm going to assume you aren't going to want to run Patriot, Indy, or BV carnage, correct?

What I see from the above is a guy who wants a reliable truck, with strong components, to run 35-37" tires.

So, to me, this screams going down to the junk yard, picking up a set of domestic axles D44's, cleaning them, stuffing cromo inside, and having a good time. Leaf sprung, and hung, and you suddenly have a simple, reliable truck that is unique, not sky high, and is more than capable to run anything you throw at it.

The parts list you put down is what I'd expect to see from Jim Bob building a comp class rock racer, excepting the tube chassis.

Keep in mind that this shizzle NEVER goes down as planned. I don't care if you have Jesus himself do the swap, there will be kinks, and bugs, and issues that are unforeseen. Cheese is hands down the most knowledgeable guy I've ever met when it comes to this shizzle. He's been chasing demons since the swap started.

The simpler you shizzle is, the easier it is to work on, the easier it is to build, the easier it is to find parts for. One off stuff is cool, until it breaks.

Obviously, your truck, and your call, but you could get everything you want out of this without building a circus.


thanks for the advice, i may not go all out if it works well.
i was expecting kinks, happens with anything, nothing goes as planned.

[bamachem]

Ike has some very good advise.

Good luck with your pursuits! I'll make sure to keep an eye out for your progress!

[AxleIke]

Cliffnotes to axles post:


Shizzle, shizzle, shizzle, how many times can I say shizzle in one post? :P


Hardy har har. Hes a funny, funny guy... LOL

[AxleIke]

And Blake, no matter what you come up with, it'll be pretty cool. I'm excited to see it. You did a very nice job with the 4wd conversion, so I expect this will be really sweet.

[neliconcept]

well im gonna continue to do my homework, id rather not jump into this as its a little bit more monumental in scale compared to doing the 4wd conversion.

plus im in a happy mood, just met up with my model, shes hot, and i get to have my way with her (on camera of course)

[SD4runner]

Well, get to the buying. I want to see this thing.

I know its already been mentioned, but, you're not into buying an old Toy and putting money into it?

I'm planning on buying the cheapest 79-83 Toy 4x4 I find, and just doing a full restore/truggy project. I'm more interested in the educational part.. rebuilding the engine, welding stuff back together and body work though. Completely different it sounds like. ;)

[neliconcept]

if i were to build an LC this would be it.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/CodyLX450R/IMG_0645.jpg

however those tires are perfect!!, widen my 16s by 2 inchs, put those bastards on, oh the horror.

gonna run the same rack, ARB for an FJ 73x44

[YotaFun]

if i were to build an LC this would be it.

http://i202.photobucket.com/albums/aa206/CodyLX450R/IMG_0645.jpg

however those tires are perfect!!, widen my 16s by 2 inchs, put those bastards on, oh the horror.

gonna run the same rack, ARB for an FJ 73x44


OOO that would be a nice build imho

[neliconcept]

they are 325/85/16 xmls.

38.7x12.9r16

11r16 is another size close for the XL, but only 38.7x10.9

then their is the XZLs

[bamachem]

are you really planning on running over 37" tires on the trail with a crawler? what drivetrain upgrades are you looking at? no way that trans can handle a turbo 3.4L with a crawl box and 39" tires. it will become the new weak link - a $3000 one. better think about what you can do to it before you use something like this for a reliable expedition vehicle.

[neliconcept]

yeah i know that ill have the trans rebuilt.

those tires look cool, but thats about all they do. good in mud and soft stuff, but are racing slicks on rocks.

[Mossyrocks]

Im not entirely sure how my tranny is still in perfect working order. especially after this weekend at morris mountain. 220k on it too.

[neliconcept]

well hes probablly referring to the 01-02 trannies as well. but if i remember right through research and stats, that my 2wd tranny is actually stronger then most 4wds, but im still debating that, but ive been rough on mine and it doesnt slip a bit. 126k on it

[SteveO]

Good luck on your build.
If your gonna do an expedition rig, know that you will be packing a lot of weight. So, I would at the very least get the Diamond Axles, or a Rear 60 Full Float. I wanted the Full Float so that I had redundancy. In the unlikely event that I broke and axle, I would pull it out and get home on the front driveline. As well, with the Diamon Axle, you gett inneer axle seals that are placed next to the center carrier. I'm looking at a Diamond Axle right now for my setup. Yeah, its still for sale, but that doesn't mean I've stopped working on it. The big thing about an expedition rig is redundancy. You want to be able to keep going or get home. This is another reason for the dual battery setup. I've actually had to use it once while in Moab. Listened to a little too much music and pulled the primary (Deep Cycle) battery down too low. flipped the dash mounted switch, engaging the second battery, and the engine fired right up. Nice to have when you are in the sticks.

Anyhow, good luck on your build.

[neliconcept]

Good luck on your build.
If your gonna do an expedition rig, know that you will be packing a lot of weight. So, I would at the very least get the Diamond Axles, or a Rear 60 Full Float. I wanted the Full Float so that I had redundancy. In the unlikely event that I broke and axle, I would pull it out and get home on the front driveline. As well, with the Diamon Axle, you gett inneer axle seals that are placed next to the center carrier. I'm looking at a Diamond Axle right now for my setup. Yeah, its still for sale, but that doesn't mean I've stopped working on it. The big thing about an expedition rig is redundancy. You want to be able to keep going or get home. This is another reason for the dual battery setup. I've actually had to use it once while in Moab. Listened to a little too much music and pulled the primary (Deep Cycle) battery down too low. flipped the dash mounted switch, engaging the second battery, and the engine fired right up. Nice to have when you are in the sticks.

Anyhow, good luck on your build.


thanks steve, appreciate hearing it from you since your truck saw a lot of road miles

everyone else, i should have a full artist rendering of the vehicle by next weekend once all these paintings are done (tonight hopefully) so that I can give you all a understanding of what i see in my head.

[Mossyrocks]

sounds like a plan

[4Mogger]

A few things:

I have Hutchinson's in the 17X8.5 flavor with internal double beadlocks squeezing 40 inch Goodyear rubber. These wheels are the lightest beadlocks you are likely to find...especially considering they lock BOTH beads, are DOT approved, CTIS compatible, and capable of being dynamically balanced. Perfect for any dual purpose or expedition rig.

I designed my own swingdown/Poison Spider type rear tire carrier. With my big 40, plus the hi-lift mounted to the inside of the rack, I weighed the load sitting on the tip of the stinger as it sat on the ground...just lowered it right onto a scale. 70 pounds it weighed. I would much rather load my tire onto the carrier on the ground and then lift the whole thing up. My tire/wheel combo is much too heavy/bulky to lift onto a side swing rack by myself. I tried that design first and then cut it apart since I knew I did not want to be doing that alone in the field. Sitting on the tip of the stinger (on the ground) the tire makes a fantastic step up into the cargo area. No it is not the perfect solution, but I could not think of any other way to deal with that big a spare tire/wheel by myself in the field.
The other advantage of this design is security. All of my mounting hardware is inaccessible inside of the carrier and locked using the pins at both sides and normal padlocks. This means no one can even get to the wheel mounting lugs or even the hi-lift.

I have made many mistakes you could learn from...just ask.

And Mog axles, if done right, are the perfect axles for a Toyota running big tires. Gearing is perfect, uber-stong, reliable, fantastic brakes, factory selectable lockers, perfect width, etc.
"Done Right" is the hard part....like I said, I invite you to learn from my mistakes.

Over $45K invested in my rig (not including purchase price, bought it new in '94) and I am not finished yet!

[4Mogger]

pic of the pin/latch combo. Padlock just goes through a hole at the bottom end of the pin.

[neliconcept]

oh niiiiice, you just fueled my fire even more after seeing that rear bumper.

[YotaFun]

oh niiiiice, you just fueled my fire even more after seeing that rear bumper.


x2 that is one sexy bumper!

[4Mogger]

waterjet...

[Cebby]

Sorry for the OT Blake - Welcome 4mogger. Good to see you here.

[bamachem]

Sorry for the OT Blake - Welcome 4mogger. Good to see you here.


ditto... awesome build on the 4-Mogger for sure.

i'm looking forward to seeing your "vision" blake - get busy! :D

[slosurfer]

did I miss the artist's rendering or are you still waiting on that? Looking forward to seeing what's in your head.

[neliconcept]

working on it

[neliconcept]

bringing this back up as it realllllly is going to happen now, but as far as the original plan, thats too excessive and i plan to go either diamond or d44 with just the 8" in the diamond.

front end would be either ORS or allpro with some modifications to both, deciding whether to work with the budbuilt xmember for the links or to go with something else.

12" coilovers from fox or sway away with 250 or 300 pound coils inless that wouldnt work.

the rear im wanting to stick with coils and go with custom panhard and adjustable lower and upper links if possible.

most likely OME J springs for the landcruiser.

oh yeah photoshop job for those of you who want to know what im thinking.

i really want the ARB roof rack

http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/4397/sas2mi1.jpg

[AxleIke]

Cool man.

Looks like you got a better plan this time.

My only advice would be don't marry any of the components until you've sat down and REALLY thought through what you want. If you think you *might* want bigger tires, or a taller truck, or whatever, do it now, so you don't have to build it a 3rd time.

How sure are you on body mods? Fender cutting and the like? It can be done really nicely for sure.

[neliconcept]

Cool man.

Looks like you got a better plan this time.

My only advice would be don't marry any of the components until you've sat down and REALLY thought through what you want. If you think you *might* want bigger tires, or a taller truck, or whatever, do it now, so you don't have to build it a 3rd time.

How sure are you on body mods?

fender cutting and the like? It can be done really nicely for sure.


well id like to keep the fender flares sorta so it can look semi stock. as far as suspension and parts go, im reallllly not sure exactly, i just have the full on image of what i want.

id like to keep the truck at 7" of total lift and no bigger. I looked at ORS' 3 link setup and it looks like its only about usage with a diamond housing or a housing with the same basic shape.

their is also the use of d44 coilover brackets from ballistic, but i dont know about links and the like and i certainly dont know how to fab up the links to the bbuilt xmember

still in unfamiliar territory but would like this to be one of the best DD Solid 3rd gen around.

also i think im going to use a Scout II steering box

mounts the pitman arm forward instead of reverse like the IFS steering box, and i think that would keep me from mounting the box so far forward on the frame and having to mess with supports for radiator

[Cheese]

With that engine and gearing, run a real rear end. Start with at least a Tundra diff, maybe a cruiser 9.5"

Maybe a 60 or 80 box?

I hope that link brackets at the least of your worries.

[neliconcept]

With that engine and gearing, run a real rear end. Start with at least a Tundra diff, maybe a cruiser 9.5"

Maybe a 60 or 80 box?

I hope that link brackets at the least of your worries.


i havent heard much on the 60 or 80 steering boxes, ill take a look.

brackets arent just my worries, im looking into everything.

with the rear end, i dont see a need to go bigger with 35s and full floater setup. not like im going to be doing the hammers or AZrocks

[Cheese]

8" rears are weak. Full Float helps the shafts, but not the gears. I regret having an 8" Diamond with all my link stuff, but am thankful for a tow rig for when the gears give up.

You have a lot of gearing and HP, that is hard on parts even at 35's.

Schaefer's site has a bunch of steering box stuff.

[neliconcept]

ill keep that in mind! thanks man

i may call you about some other ideas

[Cebby]

Are the 9.5's a good option to use for the chunk in a Diamond? Even up front? Someone had asked me if the 9.5 front was reverse cut - I didn't (and still don't) know.

Or is a Ford 9" the better 3rd overall?

[neliconcept]

Slee is using the 9.5 up front in the blueberry but has to have custom shafts made for it.

got some prices and figures

non axle though

10,000 for install at ORS with their kit with D44 and i think around 9700 for diamond. 15500 with diamond supplied by them.

somewhat reasonable but i think i could do it myself if i just learn how to weld (aka frontrange summer class i may take)

Irbis shot me 4000 figure for install if i supply most all parts

one thing ive heard is the all pro kit is a bit of a rust magnet. and i just havent heard realllly good things from that kit.

ORS kit utilizes 14" coilovers but still maintains 5-7" of lift over stock. im at 5.5" now, so technically id be at 8" if i got this kit as im keeping the BL

i want to move the front axle up 2.5" from where it is now, and if possible move the back axle about 1" which would mean id have to fab up new coil buckets up top and get new longer links.

Jim at inchworm is supposed to call me back today, getting a price on fully built diamond (through him which is why i didnt call FROR or diamond aka brian)

ill get back to you guys later, i have some things i need to sell at my house in SC in baseball cards which could possibly fund the entire thing.

[Cheese]

Do you understand how close Diamond is to where you are right now?

Smurfette has a 9.5" front. The shafts are custom of course. That is a bomber front and good for them since they have cruiser parts all over.

If I took a class at Front Range, this would not be my first project.

[neliconcept]

Do you understand how close Diamond is to where you are right now?

Smurfette has a 9.5" front. The shafts are custom of course. That is a bomber front and good for them since they have cruiser parts all over.

If I took a class at Front Range, this would not be my first project.


yeah i know where diamond is, sorta...

yeah i was kidding on the front range part lol.

id most likely have irbis do it here, or have carolina rock shop in charlotte do it back home if i was there when i want this done.

i know that i can recoup about 1800 from the front when i do get this done, so that is sorta factored in.

[neliconcept]

got some prices for la blinget of the diamond

http://www.offroadsolutions.com/images/products/suspension/DCP_0738.jpg

5500 to 6000 for fully built 64" wide would be ideal, means id run 2" spacers in the rear to match.

im still sketchy about selling my mickey mantle card

[neliconcept]

i got some measurements and im not estatic about them, one reason is they are close to SteveO's measurments on his freakin 4runner on dana44, which isnt good for me.

SteveO's mesurements

Top of front bumper to ground = 40"
Center of front headlight to ground = 45"
Center of rear tail-light (where the red portion meets the while portion) to ground = 49"
frame to ground = 25"


mine
top of front bumper to ground = 37.9"
center of front headlight to ground = 43"
center of rear taillight = 47"
frame to ground = 21"

some eek going on right there.

[AxleIke]

Just widen it out. Width gives you more stability than height. You can counteract your height by going out.

You tip over when the COG exceeds the base. Make the base wider, and you'll be fine.

Also, better make peace with never parking in a garage anywhere ever again. :D

[neliconcept]

Just widen it out. Width gives you more stability than height. You can counteract your height by going out.

You tip over when the COG exceeds the base. Make the base wider, and you'll be fine.

Also, better make peace with never parking in a garage anywhere ever again. :D


well ive sorta made peace already, i cant fit in the one garage that i liked parking in at buckhead in atlanta.

[Rock Slide]

I may have missed it in the previous pages, so forgive me if this has already been covered...

To start with, since your 4Runner was 2wd to begin with, did it even come equipped with VSC & TRAC? (I can't remember if the 01-02 2wds came with it or not.) If yours did come with it, then by going sas, do you just loose all the traction aides or do you have a work around for it?

If it did not come stock with the traction aides, then nevermind. A sas should be much easier then! Good luck.

[Albuquerque Jim]

8" rears are weak. Full Float helps the shafts, but not the gears. I regret having an 8" Diamond with all my link stuff, but am thankful for a tow rig for when the gears give up.

You have a lot of gearing and HP, that is hard on parts even at 35's.

Schaefer's site has a bunch of steering box stuff.


Yep...I'm keepin' my fingers crossed with the Zuk Cryo'd 8" and PP shafts.

[RunnerUp]

alright... so dibs on your front ARB locker if your selling it!

[neliconcept]

I may have missed it in the previous pages, so forgive me if this has already been covered...

To start with, since your 4Runner was 2wd to begin with, did it even come equipped with VSC & TRAC? (I can't remember if the 01-02 2wds came with it or not.) If yours did come with it, then by going sas, do you just loose all the traction aides or do you have a work around for it?

If it did not come stock with the traction aides, then nevermind. A sas should be much easier then! Good luck.


i do have VSC, but when i went to 4wd, my vsc and abs are all off right now due to 4cyl tacoma spindles without abs plugs.

so that isnt going to be an issue.

[4Runner202020]

alright... so dibs on your front ARB locker if your selling it!


haha i already called it in person. haha i basically called his whole front end so i can get the manual hubs too. lol

[RunnerUp]

alright... so dibs on your front ARB locker if your selling it!


haha i already called it in person. haha i basically called his whole front end so i can get the manual hubs too. lol



aww crap.... well now i guess i just have to find other things to waste my money on

[neliconcept]

actually Bobby, i told you Rob made the call dibs on the front diff, but you dibbed up the rest.

[4Runner202020]

weak lol i'm local less hassle. haha jk

[Ric]

I think you need to tell RunnerUp that he has to come out here and pick it up :D just so we can do some wheeling :thumbup:

[BruceTS]

another side note, there have been many that have experienced gear failure in the "lefty" T-cases, if your gonna go this far, you might as well invest in an Atlas trandfer case...


where have you seen this? i have about one of 7 leftys, i have not noticed any gear failures.


http://board.marlincrawler.com/index.php?topic=39997.0;highlight=inchworm+lefty



I wouldn't get a left. I know of 3 that have been broken (1 in front of me@Moab) and they use fail gear parts inside it.



well until he has proven evidence from pictures and other stuff, then i dont take that post as anything true.

i read pirate more then i do MCs board, nothing on the lefty, leaky adapters? thats the installers fault, not inchworm.





Well I guess you got your evidence


From TTORA board

Marc told me to post up on here and have also talked to Greg. My tcase output or input or something destroyed itself while going to get gas on barrett parkway, it is now parked in front of a building on marrietta blvd nw which is technically south atlanta road.

I thought id ask if someone could help me drop the case, i have gotten the front driveshaft disconnected, some bolts from the xmember and i have taken out all the tideous shifter shit as well.

my # is 864-376-6393, wont be on the net too much.

thanks for any help that anyone gives.

sorry for the trouble.

[4Runner202020]

well good research bruce.... this is a dead topic and doesn't need to be brought up anymore. its like you just rubbing people into the ground. this is supposed to be a friendly board with good people and most of your comments are yes very helpful but you post and do them in a manner which is not kind what so ever. he didn't ask for help here because he does not feel welcome and mainly because of your negative actions in your post. how is this board going to grow when you push people away... and i know he took stuff a little close to the heart but he just wanted nice constructive critism not negative critism. ya know.... everyone on here follows you and loves you for some reason... i dont get it you do know a crazy amount of things about our runners and people look up at you for that but people are starting to follow you in the way the post which is in the negative manner. just think about that for a while...

thanks

bobby

[04 Rocko Taco]

I dont think Bruce was being overly negative with his last post. I think he saw that Blake did indeed have a failure of his t-case, which is important information for others who may be considering a lefty t-case in thier swap, and since apparently the info on them breaking is hard to find, since Blake couldnt seem to get it, I think it is for posterity's sake that Bruce has posted it here....

And yes, bobby, I do know Blake in person, and in fact told him if he could wait till monday I would be glad to come and help him drop his t-case. So I am not here to pick on Blake or anything like that.

[4Runner202020]

ya and you are one that stands on your own ground, i have notice and you seem like a really really good guy too. but i just talked to blake and he said he posted that in the georgis fourm not even the public ttora... do you just follow his post around bruce and wait for one to rag on... he left here cause of you so leave it at that and stop creepin on him.

bobby

[oly884]

Bobby, we know you're Blake's buddy, we get that you are 'backing' him.

However, the arrogant attitude in which he has repeatedly posted here has been anything but 'friendly'. Here's the prime example:



well until he has proven evidence from pictures and other stuff, then i dont take that post as anything true.


Basically, Blake is calling him a liar. Well, if I'm called a liar, and I know I'm not lying, then I'd be more than happy to point out any proof that says otherwise.

If Blake left because of Bruce's constructive criticisms, then I feel sorry for him that he cannot take any criticism, it can be a pretty useful tool for becoming a better person.

Furthermore, I'm very glad Bruce brought this up. If leftys are failing, then it needs to be brought to attention. It's as simple as that.

[neliconcept]

ok im just going to post and update the situation, since people are going off a post of mine which even I have no idea problem might be.

so lets start off, if Bruce's first post about my tcase situation was constructive criticism then im michael jordan.

Secondly, the case hasnt been pulled yet so it could even be the output of the transmission itself. Their are no DEFINITE answers to the issue at hand.

Third... well until he has proven evidence from pictures and other stuff, then i dont take that post as anything true.

im standing behind that, because for one, i havent seen any evidence on the internet, until I talked with Jim himself, and its only because they have not put cromoly shafts in the transfer case for the few FJcruisers.

So badger me on that statement all you will, but did anybody find those posts yet? if not then you certainly cannot attest the statement.

thats all I have to say. and logging out.

peace

[neliconcept]

also id like to point out, im not trying to be a jerk, and taking criticism with a grain of salt right now. But lets try not to tarnish a name such like inchworm without me getting all the facts as of now I have no idea what broke, but when I called Jim we went over the symptoms of gears not being able to move the truck, the transmission is turning once i rev up and as soon as i pull in park it grinds the gears a little (hence why i havent done it again as i just need to get things pulled)

I know everybody in here isnt trying to be a jerk either, Bruce if i had met you im sure you are a great guy, same as oly, but do look at your post from anothers point of view and you can see why it can get taken another way... just a thought.

once i get everything done, case and or adapters taken off (to check with the tranny output as well) ill post back and let everyone know.

btw Inchworm told me about the FJC's , reason they dont sell anything less then a cromo output, so if it happens again, somebody is driving reallllllly stupid and even then it would be hard to break, something else would go first.

lets get everything straight before we take this too overboard please :)

[oly884]

so lets start off, if Bruce's first post about my tcase situation was constructive criticism then im michael jordan.

Hi Michael! I keed, I keed.

I was talking about all the other posts of his before today, not the one that he just posted. He posted information that a few leftys have failed. You chose to ignore it, in quite a rude manner I might add, and that was that. Now, your T-case failed, though we are not sure why yet, and Bruce felt that it was for the better interest of every one on this board to know that you are having issues with your lefty which was already discussed in this thread. It's not criticism, it's simply pointing out a possible problem with leftys.

Keep us updated about the t-case, if you don't want to, I'm sure Bruce et al will.

[oly884]

also id like to point out, im not trying to be a jerk, and taking criticism with a grain of salt right now. But lets try not to tarnish a name such like inchworm without me getting all the facts as of now I have no idea what broke, but when I called Jim we went over the symptoms of gears not being able to move the truck, the transmission is turning once i rev up and as soon as i pull in park it grinds the gears a little (hence why i havent done it again as i just need to get things pulled)

I know everybody in here isnt trying to be a jerk either, Bruce if i had met you im sure you are a great guy, same as oly, but do look at your post from anothers point of view and you can see why it can get taken another way... just a thought.

once i get everything done, case and or adapters taken off (to check with the tranny output as well) ill post back and let everyone know.

btw Inchworm told me about the FJC's , reason they dont sell anything less then a cromo output, so if it happens again, somebody is driving reallllllly stupid and even then it would be hard to break, something else would go first.

lets get everything straight before we take this too overboard please :)


Fair enough Blake, I agree that until we know the exact cause, we can't put blame on Inchworm. I'd offer to help if I wasn't a few thousand miles away.

[Whitey]

"Less Bull, More Tech"...at least that used to be the idea...

[Lee]

i dont know blake, i really have looked at the things bruce posted both before and now again since i figured maybe time would help me see what you see, and all i see is someone giving what he knows. just my .02.

good luck and let us know what the failure was.

[4Runner202020]

and ya i understand taking the bad with the good. but in previous post of his he had asked for the negative critism to stop and it didn't... and i'm not saying people follow you as far as your build and stuff goes i'm sayin people follow you in the way you act and think its ok because you do it. and why do you follow blakes posts on other fourms.... you still didn't answer that question. seems kinda creepy.


Bobby, I don't understand your post?????? All I did was give constructive critism and got shot down for it. He's the one who demanded proof positive, instead of doing his own research.

Oh and if you think other members are following me, then you need to do more research yourself. It's the other way around, I actually read and do research on what others have done and follow their ideas. My original post was simply giving Blake heads up on possible problem that have been posted by another forum, so where in my post did I say anything negative about him? This is simply to give others who may search forums about possible options and what works and what doesn't.

And if you think I'm picking on Blake alone you sadly mistaken, ask Lance how many times I've suggested other options on how to do something on his build. Then ask him if he took it as an attack. Then go to Mossyrunner's thread and see how many times I suggested other options, then ask him if he took it as an attack. See the trend???

What you don't see are the all the PM's going back and forth between other members where we brainstorm about an idea and what would be a good approach. I just don't post on open forums every single idea then ask for others opinions. Doing so you'd better be willing to take the bad with the good.


and ya i understand taking the bad with the good. but in previous post of his he had asked for the negative critism to stop and it didn't... and i'm not saying people follow you as far as your build and stuff goes i'm sayin people follow you in the way you act and think its ok because you do it. and why do you follow blakes posts on other fourms.... you still didn't answer that question. seems kinda creepy since you live in cali i think and it was posted in a georgia fourm... i mean if it waws posted in a cali ttora fourm then i could see how you could have "STUMBLED" apon it but that excuse would be a little bit far reached...

bobby

[4Runner202020]

ya i see how you would click on something like that but if you go look and see when he posted it what time does it say.... 1:13pm and that is georgia time... so if you are in cali the that is 11:13am your time so how were you browsing at night and "STUMBLED" upon it... still not adding up bruce. i mean if you like to follow people around on the internet and stuff that cool just dont take it to real life people get arrested for less.

bobby

[slosurfer]

Bobby, take a look at that thread again, someone posted at 6 or 7pm, that would have bumped the thread to the top in the evening. :shake:

[Lee]

who gives a crap, get over it. it's tech info that may be useful to people with similar set ups or who are looking to buy/install similar set ups.

im sorry if people are offended by RELEVANT tech, but stop the high school girl fights and lets try to find out what blew up and why. i'm always interested to find out why a particular set up failed.

[Mossyrocks]

damn drama.

[4runnerchevy]

Can we have this thread moved to the b*tch and moan section. This is offroad tech.

[Cebby]

I like eggs.

[YotaFun]

Can we have this thread moved to the b*tch and moan section. This is offroad tech.


I am with him on this one.
I talked to Chris about locking this thread.
I believe any tech that is actually in this thread should be extracted and formed in a new one.
As for the drama, I think all of it needs to be moved to PMs and this thread should be done with.
I don't mean to sound like a YT nazi, and I am no mod, but iirc we are trying to keep this place as drama free as possible and as filled with TECH as possible...

[4Runner202020]

Can we have this thread moved to the b*tch and moan section. This is offroad tech.


I am with him on this one.
I talked to Chris about locking this thread.
I believe any tech that is actually in this thread should be extracted and formed in a new one.
As for the drama, I think all of it needs to be moved to PMs and this thread should be done with.
I don't mean to sound like a YT nazi, and I am no mod, but iirc we are trying to keep this place as drama free as possible and as filled with TECH as possible...



i agree too... sorry for the drama i just think some things nned to change around here and now they are in the open to be changed we will see what will happen.

[neliconcept]

case has been pulled, so ill post a new thread in a bit, but id rather talk to Jim before i start posting crap about the case on the net. but it doesnt look good, thats all i have to say.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Sorry I couldn't help Blake, hope Jim can get you fixed up... Give me a shout sometime, and let me know whats up, or if I can be of any help down there.

[Cheese]

It is not a knock on the manufacturer if things break, that is the reality of most parts.

Let's keep on track with the progress.

Good luck.

[4runnerchevy]

I want to see the damage. Take lots of pics.