Brake work questions: SS Lines, Getting Rotors Turned?, Pads, Drums, Bleeding

[dontdo_that]

This weekend I'm going to be servicing my brakes. I intend to do the following services:
New SS brake lines
New pads
New rotors or have my current rotors turned
New Drum shoes / cleaning the drums with brake cleaner
Full system bleed with new fluid

I'm inquiring about the order in which to perform these services. I've never done any brake work before and am reading several sources including a write-up at 4x4wire.com which can be found here:
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/4Runner/maintenance/brakes/

and a writeup on brake bleeding at 4runner.org:
http://www.4runners.org/writeups/brakebleed/index.htm

I'm also referring to my Chilton manual.

But as these write ups deal with specific jobs involving brakes, I'm not sure in what order I need to perform the services that would make the job easier. I was planning on doing them in the following order:
1) New Lines
2) Pads and Rotors
3) Drum shoes / cleaning
4) Full system bleed

My understanding that the system, being hydraulic, is not under constant pressure and bleeding is not necessary to perform rotor/pad and drum replacements. In addition, the Chilton manual describes each job separately and independently. It does not state that brakes need to be bled in order to replace rotors/pads, etc., but it does make note that the master cylinder should not be ran dry during the bleeding processes. So Is this a good order to perform the work in? or does it not really matter?

Finally, what does it mean to "get your rotors turned"? and where can you have this done? Can I remove my rotors and take them to a brake shop? or is it just a matter of literally reinstalling the rotors in a different position so the pads make contact with the rotor on a different portion of the rotor surface.

Thanks for all the help!

[Seanz0rz]

your list, if all is being done at the same time, is perfect.

having the rotors turned, or resurfaced, involves shaving off a small amount of the rotor surface to produce a new surface. only really needed if they are scored with a pad that went past the wear limit. some use this to fix warped rotors, but in my opinion and experience, once a rotor is warped, its cooked, and you should replace. any automotive shop should be able to do this no problem.

our brakes are very easy to change. to replace pads, just undo the guide pins, pull the old pads out, put the new pads in, done. basically anyway. you might have to remove some fluid from the reservoir so you can push the pistons in to fit the new pads.

as for the rears, drums suck. i hate drums. i really recommend picking up some of the special tools for drum brakes, as they make your life infinitely easier. other than that, just replace the shoes as described in the FSM or haynes.

have you thought about doing the tundra brake upgrade? its not much more cost if you are replacing pads and rotors. and the stopping power is unbelievable, plus the rotors wont warp so often like our anemic brakes from the factory. since mine were soooo warped, i went ahead and replaced the rotors with tundra ones, and replaced the calipers (as the 4runner ones wont work with tundra rotors)

[04 Rocko Taco]

Personally, I would bleed BEFORE new pads and rotors, just when you bleed you are going to make a mess with the brake fluid, no since in coating your new stoppers with slick fluid... thats the only thing I would change. :)

[Seanz0rz]

chris, how the heck do you get fluid on the pads? all you have to do is put some tube on the bleed screw and drop the tube into a bottle, no mess what so ever.

[04 Rocko Taco]

bah that tube is overrated, and always gets in my way. haha.

[dontdo_that]

i considered just doing a tundra brake modifcation but i cant afford to fork out for the new calipers right now. My rotors are warped pretty bad and I would like to replace them. Whats a good suggestion? I have a feeling stockers will be really really expensive. I am on a time constraint so I don't have time to order from the internet or from 1sttoyotaparts.com. I may have to just go with a good drilled/slotted brand from a local auto shop like napa, pep boys, kragen, etc.

i wanted to bleed last in the case that there were any contaminants or air in the system after replacing brake parts/ brake lines. Bleeding last would ensure that the system is properly bled/filled and free of air/contaminants.

thanks for the help guys!

[97kurt]

If it were me, I would call around to a couple yards in your area and find some tundra calipers. The tundra rotors and pads cost about the same amount as the 4runner ones so no sense in spending the money twice.


Oh yeah, and I would also bleed every thing last.

[dontdo_that]

Alright I'll try to do that. Thanks!

[dontdo_that]

Decided not to go with the Tundra calipers this time. But I do have another question. When I opened my new rotors, they had oil on them. They were sealed inside a plastic bag with a little bit of oil. I don't know why you would want to have oil on the surface of rotors as reducing friction means less stopping power. I was also told that its important to wash rotors with soap and water, and dry them before installing everything because contaminants and oils on the surface of the rotors can become embedded in new pads which reduces their effectiveness.

Should I wash my new rotors with soap and water before I put them on?

[Seanz0rz]

clean them with brake parts cleaner, it will leave no residue.

[dontdo_that]

Unfortunately I was pressed on time and decided to do this job last minute. I didn't have the opportunity to order any parts online, so I had to go with all Kragen parts because I'm a broke ass college student.

Kragen sold me:
Raybestos Rear Shoes
Satisfied Genuine (OE replacement apparently) low noise pads
Some random brand of Rotors they claimed to be Raybestos.

I couldn't for the life of me, find SS lines.. or any lines in stock anywhere for that matter which is really dissapointing. I cracked open the drums and the drums/shoes were like new. I cleaned them up real good and didn't bother replacing the rear brakes.

Just a few notes I want to mention about this job that isn't mentioned in the writeup on 4x4wire and isn't given much attention in the Chilton manual either.

The front brake pads are DIFFERENT from one another. The INNER brake pad is the one that has two metal clips that extend out from the end. The OUTER brake pad has nothing. Note the positioning of the brake pads when you remove them. Inner means innermost to the vehicle.

Another quick question: After getting everything installed and bleeding, the brakes work good and feel good, but there is a light tapping sound, that sounds like the rotor is making contact with the caliper at one point on the rotor. As I drive, it sounds like someone is very silently ringing a bell. It's not a constant drone noise, but rather occurs faster and faster with less of a pause in between the taps the faster I drive. It really sounds like the rotor is making contact with something but only at a certain point on the rotor which is causing the metal to ring out. It's not a squealing type noise. I'm wondering if this will go away as the brakes settle in? or what could be causing this?

[Seanz0rz]

the rotor could be not fully seated onto the drive flange.

[dontdo_that]

wouldn't installing the wheel and re-torquing all of the lug nuts back on force the rotor to seat properly with the drive flange?

Working alone, and given how easily the rotor slipped off of the drive flange, I found it really difficult to get the caliper over the rotor without the caliper making contact with the rotor and knocking it off of the drive flange.

[4runnerchevy]

wouldn't installing the wheel and re-torquing all of the lug nuts back on force the rotor to seat properly with the drive flange?


And possibly warping the rotor and causing permanant damage.

[04 Rocko Taco]

Jack the truck back up, pull off the wheels, put it in nuetraul (ebrake on) and spin the front shafts by turning the studs, and watch for contact with anything in there.

[QSVeilside]

I couldn't for the life of me, find SS lines.. or any lines in stock anywhere for that matter which is really dissapointing.



I got my set of Goodridge G-Stop stainless steel brakelines from www.hrpworld.com. Best price I could find online.

http://www.hrpworld.com/index.cfm?form_prod_id=351,313,262,49,363_1901&action=product

Direct link for your convenience.

[97kurt]

Wheelers also sells the goodrich steel lines but with the PVC coating. No sales tax but a few bucks more than the above site.

http://www.wheelersoffroad.com/96024runnerblines.htm

[KZN185W]

didn't do bedding-in of the pads?

are the ones sold by wheeler's also G-stop lines?

[dontdo_that]

thanks for the links. I was going to jump on the Wheeler's lines, but I didn't have time to order them. Whenever I work on my runner, its on a whim, as I decide that I have enough time to drive back up to Ventura from San Diego, where my driveway and all my tools are. Therefore, ordering something online would not have worked out, since I only had from like friday to sunday.

kzn what do you mean by "bedding-in" of the pads? It sounds like something is making light contact.. like the rotor is making light contact with the caliper but only at a certain point of the rotor. That really annoys me because I struggled to get the rotor to sit properly on the hub , but the lightest tap would unseat it. I just figured getting it close enough, then putting the wheels and torquing the bolts in a diagonal pattern would be sufficient to get the rotor to rest on the hub in the proper spot.

Then again, these are the cheap, 50$ per rotor parts from Kragen, so I hope they didn't give me crappy parts.

[KZN185W]

Hi,

These links will explain it better. hth

http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/techpage.jsp?techid=85

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

http://www.pagidusa.com/bedding_in_procedure.htm

http://www.baer.com/technical/braking-202/padbedding.php

[Erich_870]

This is gunna sound stupid, but I have to ask just incase...

The two bolts that hold the caliper are normally threaded right? In other words, "Righty-tighty", "lefty loosey", correct? :shake:

I ask because I'm trying to remove my pass side caliper to replace the rotor and I can't get either bolt to budge. I've just hit them with PB Blaster gave them 30 min and tried again with my breaker bar and an extension pipe and managed to shear off my socket reducer (I don't have a 1/2" driver compatible 17mm socket for a 1/2" driver). :chair:

Erich

[MTL_4runner]

The two bolts that hold the caliper are normally threaded right? In other words, "Righty-tighty", "lefty loosey", correct? :shake:


Yes, they are just normal bolts.

Erich, do you have air tools or can you buy an electric impact gun?
Those bolts can be tough and impact tools definately make the job easier.

[Erich_870]

Yes, they are just normal bolts.

Erich, do you have air tools or can you buy an electric impact gun?
Those bolts can be tough and impact tools definitely make the job easier.


Thanks MTL,

I hit Sears after church and picked up a set of metric 1/2" sockets and with the extension pipe I got them loose.

I'd love to get an air compressor with some capacity and air tools! I probably should have milked this situation for one :hillbill:

I tried to show the wife the set and explain why I needed it and she said, "It's fine dear, I don't need to know," Boy did I miss my chance :chair:

Erich