Camping with a trailer

[Good Times]

Camping is fun. Without a doubt it's one of the best activities to do especially around the great company of friends that enjoy it with you. The inherent downside in camping is setting up the friggin tents. I have been fortunate that my sig other doesn't mind helping me setting up/down the tent but it is regardless a chore. So I'm lazy but you do understanding that sometimes you just want to stop and just sleep right away. Setting up a tent really defeats the purpose of the quick in and out concept. Of course it doesn't take a lot of time setting it up or down but it does take a bit of surveying the location for a flat spot as well as shelter from the elements (sun/wind/etc).

So over the last few trips especially my last trip, we encountered quite a few trailers either in a rtt (roof top tent) fashion or your run of the mill tent trailer (pop up, a frame, 5th wheel... you name it) and that got us thinking. Actually we've been talking about something like this for some time now... well just Bob to be specific. We both enjoy camping but when you have to bring additional loved ones it really does make it a bit more challenging as you really want to provide the best quality in the outdoors adventure as well as accommodate for your little/big 4 legged buddies.

With this in mind I've been openly considering a trailer (pref a Kimberly Kamper!). Right now is probably not the best time to be investing in a travel tent trailer but some of the deals and steals I've found on CL (craigslist) has definitely been attractive.

Here's my open requirement on what I'd like to see:

Tent trailer (no rtt cuz it makes it hard to get the dogs in and out which pretty much rules out Adventure Trailers, Military trailers and such)
Pref Offroad version such as the Kimberly Kampers (those things are awesome!!)
Off the ground tent so everyone can sleep well
Easy configuration (i.e. max setup time of 2 min at most)
cheap (haha Had to throw this in here for kicks)
Sleeps min 4 and a dog or two (more the better)
Kitchen and Toiletry stuff is not required
Ability to stand tall and change instead of the bent over position that really does a number of my back. This is a really big importance because Jenn and Justin (JnJ) brough their RV to the 2007 Pismo event and man was it really nice to just walk inside and sit and relax away from the outside elements!
... sounds like I should pick up an old Fleetwood Evolution Cobalt or something similar? Anyone got one for sale for dirt cheap (say free?). I know that all of the cabinetry inside would have to be rebuilt or removed cuz they're worthless once you hit the dirt as they all fall apart (based on my readings on other camping forums).

I know a number of you have these similar tent trailers and want to get your feed back on these suckers. If you don't have this specific one but maybe a mil trailer that's fine too! I understand that the Coleman and other tent trailers are not suited for the hardcore offroading stuff but in all honesty I just don't see myself taking a trailer to places like this so it really doesn't matter. The trailer would be used primarily for base camping while I'll keep my existing camping stuff for the real outback camping stuff.

Some sample photos of current model tent trailers

Fleetwood Evolution Series
http://www.fleetwoodcampingtrailers.com/images/series/se_ev_rails.jpg

Kimberly Kampers
http://kimberleykampers.com/gallery/images/SplashDown1.jpg

OZ Tent (threw this in as an alternative cuz apparently you can set this up in a minute or so)
http://www.oztent.com.au/images/do-you-own-a-4x4.jpg

[Good Times]

Here's a really nice one a bit out of my budget...

http://www.ultimateyota.com/images/threads/fleetwood_neon.jpg

http://www.ultimateyota.com/images/threads/fleetwood_neon_floorplan.jpg

For Sale Ad Here (http://www.rvtraderonline.com/find/listing/2006-FLEETWOOD-NEON-81303903) $4495!

Edit - Found someone selling for $2600obo but he's way the heck out in PA ... ugh! (now that's definitely closer to my budget)

[Bob98SR5]

lance,

nice thread :)

yeah, while i have been searching for tent trailers, the more expedition types have also caught my eye. i started to research "small tent trailers" and some people have built teardrop trailers, but more for off road. I've shown you those links but for those who have not seen teardrops here they are:

http://www.frontiernet.net/~tvkoehler/index.html_files/bc1e350a-cc59-11dc-8399-e5e94279b897.png

now here's an adaptation of the teardrop concept, but more for off roading:

http://www.outbackteardrop.com/trips/tt11.jpg

http://www.outbackteardrop.com/trips/tt26.jpg

while its hard to see, he built this thing to last! here's his great website: http://www.outbackteardrop.com/teartrips.html

so what it comes down to is this:

1) cost
2) type of camping i intend to do
3) comfort (commercial tent trailer) or flexibility (off road, home built trailer)
4) size

i've mulled these thigns in my head and i still have not come to a definitive conclusion. now i've seen a former member build his own (gerdo?), but i'd like to see more. but this decision wont happen until i buy a house---or win the lottery to buy a house and something i wont have to build! :D

bob

[reggie 00]

Yes
The Tear drop trailers are nice.
Me and Pop's have been looking to make one of them for off road use.
If you look into it they are not that difficult to make.

[Bob98SR5]

reg,

yeah, youre absolutely right. i'd be so damn cool to build one yourself, but at the same time, if you look on craigslist, you can see that people regularly sell good to very good condition tent trailers that have amenities and sleeps 4 for around $2 to $3k---and $3k to $4k seems to be the magic price range of one of these off road worthy tear drops that have room for 2 and no amenities like a tent trailer would

...decisions, decisions!

[Good Times]

From the reading that I've done over some time now the pop up trailers used by the majority will work well on the asphalt but once on the dirt they don't last the vibration from the trail. The interior cabinetry appears to be the weakest link as well as the suspension parts. I've read people rebuild the cabinetry and upgrade the suspension which sounds like a real big chore.

The Fleetwood Neon shown above appears to be a no frill simple tent trailer with little creature comfort. It just has a bed and a few cabinets. I can just pull the cabinets out completely and just use my own camping equipment so that should free up more space. The suspension will always be upgraded regardless of what I do so it seems like a great combination for me so far. Though I'm not done researching I'm definitely lurking on other forums to find the best possible combination. At any rate if I do find one of these for around $2,000 I'm definitely gonna be tempted to pick one up.

The tear drops look awesome and definitely inspiring but the desire to build one just doesn't fit the bill. I know that it'll be fun building something that I can say is all mine but the thought of spending time and money on materials just doesn't work for me. I guess rebuilding the 4runner just did a number on me.

Anyway back to CL and some other forums for great deals! Looks like one is on ebay for 2500 but he's out in CO. Definitely closer so I'll watch this one closely :)

[AxleIke]

If you want, here is my buddies thread. Still below 2k

http://forum.ih8mud.com/trailer-tech/158552-my-scratch-built-expedition-style-trailer-build-up-thread.html

[BruceTS]

Lance there's a place here in SoCal that sell various kits to build a teardrop, or you can just purchase parts. I was actually thinking about building one, offroad version of course.....

http://www.socalteardrops.com/

[Bighead]

If you want, here is my buddies thread. Still below 2k

http://forum.ih8mud.com/trailer-tech/158552-my-scratch-built-expedition-style-trailer-build-up-thread.html


His trailer is turning out nice.

[AxleIke]

Yes it is.

He's got a bunch of autobody experience, so I'm excited to see his paint job.

[RobG]

Cool Thread. I went though this a few months ago. I was set on the Fleetwood cobalt or element, that is until I looked at one. They don't really have any suspension to speak of, just wider tires, and they are made pretty crappy. Once you step up to the E1 you get a better suspension with shocks and a nicer build.

I really wanted a StarCraft 11RT or Jayco Baja 10Y, I just missed out on a great used 11RT, all the other ones I found after that used were too expensive (>8K). I need need sleeping for 5 + 1 dog. Wound up getting mint used regular tent trailer (StarCraft 2107) for now. Figured we'd get some use out of it and experience so we would know what we really want when we are ready to move up. I really like the tent trailer because of the relative small size and large sleep capacity and the low wind profile. We use it as a base camp and it works great for the whole family. The heater is killer, below freezing last weekend in the low sierras and never below 60 in the trailer all night. Wife and kids love that.

I have it narrowed down to 2 classes of tent trailer for the next trailer. First is the larger trailer with bathroom and larger front deck for Bikes and firewood. Either a Jayco 10Y or the Starcraft 11RT. Second is a slightly smaller trailer that is more offroad friendly the Starcraft 10RT, Jayco 10Z (discontinues last year) or maybe the E1 but I dislike the black interior. If I cant get the cash together I may consider modifying our current trailer with a lift and better suspension.

Still plan on using the tent for the more hardcord quick trips with camping along the way. There are so many great state and federal parks in CA and the tent trailer opens up a whole new "camping" element we never considered before. One downfall of the trailer is you highway speed in CA is limited to 65-70 (55MPH speed limit) after that you stand a good change of being pulled over. Having the 12HP 3.0 your speed on the passes and steeper inclines is even further limited. Setup and take down is more than 2 minutes 10-15 minimum if you don't over pack the inside of the trailer. Still way faster than a tent, way more comfortable and way better in the cold and rain.

Those customs and offroads are really cool but they are just to small to fit the whole family into.

[Good Times]

ike - Funny cuz I have Drew's thread saved under one of my bookmarks tab in my trailer folder :) His trailer is definitely coming together nicely and I must say there is no way I'd be able to partake in that kind of project. I just don't have the skills to do something like that. I know that you've been helping him out so props to you man! Isn't there a 3rd person helping out too? (don't remember)

Those teardrops are nice and would be awesome if I could stand inside it. Though it is nice to know that all you got to do is open the door and crawl in and not lift anything or set anything up.

Anyhow what really got me thinking beyond the "build your own military-ish trailer/Adventure trailer/tear drops" was Jenn's RV at Pismo. Being able to just walk in without crawling or slouching was a nice change. That definitely got me the first official bug of damn you mean I've been either camping in the 4runner or setting up my tent and calling that luxury? shoot... lol Call me a sucker but I've never done the luxury camping so setting up a tent on the ground or sleeping in the 4runner all nice and dandy.

But as I start to do more of these trips with my significant other, it's definitely not as cozy as doing it alone. Though having the company to do it with someone else is definitely a thumbs up it adds another level of difficulty by bringing more crap and another person to deal with. Not only this I've been considering introducing the 4 legged partner into the picture too so this will definitely make things infinitely difficult.

RobG - yeah I definitely agree on the suspension for the entry models. But I think that almost all of them are not up to snuff if you plan to take it on the dirt. Any pop up I decide on would definitely go through a nice overhaul on the axle/suspension so I can at least match my Toyota wheels :) Can you elaborate on the lack of the "nicer build" part on the cobalt/element? Aside from the crappy suspension are we talking about the frame and the overall finish of the shell and materials used for the trailer cabin itself? I'm curious as I if it's something I'm going to be upgrading then it's really not a big deal for me. If you have pics of your current config that'll be nice to see to give me a better perspective.

I guess I'm just looking long term where I know that I will still be doing these camping excursions as my family grows so having a nice/simple trailer to accommodate for the rest of family will be key on my abilities to be able to participate in the events. I am definitely with RobG on keeping my existing camping equipment for the backwood stuff but having a trailer to be able to setup the base camp is definitely something I'd love to do. Going faster than 70 is definitely not something I care to do anymore. the mpg on my 4runner is already piss poor so no need for me to want to go lead foot. my v8 already loves to guzzle gas like it's nothing so anything to keep me at a respectable speed is definitely a good change of pace :)

[Good Times]

On a similar note I found this old link as an alternative...

Kamparoo Trailers (http://www.kamparoo.com/)

These would be nice purchased or built similar to as well :)

[paddlenbike]

There is a Jayco Baja 10Y (the one that RobG mentioned) for sale on Sac craigslist:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/rvs/628242194.html

[paddlenbike]

Here's a project for you guys: :roll:
http://sacramento.craigslist.org/rvs/630231664.html

[AxleIke]

Lance, to be honest, you DO have the skills.

At the start of that build, Drew had no idea how to weld, and had no welder. He bought a $500 Lincoln Mig welder, used his CO2 tank from his truck, and got some scrap pieces and started practicing. The rest has been done with a $30 Harbor freight chop saw, a dewalt 4" grinder, a drill, and your average garage tools.

The only thing that was done specialty is our friend Ian who has a REALLY sweet tube bender, and another guy in the club who has a square tube die. Thats how the fenders and upper box rack got made. Those could have been done differently though.

He's just taken his time is all. Slow and steady with attention to details, but he didn't start out with any experience at all.

[RobG]

RobG - yeah I definitely agree on the suspension for the entry models. But I think that almost all of them are not up to snuff if you plan to take it on the dirt. Any pop up I decide on would definitely go through a nice overhaul on the axle/suspension so I can at least match my Toyota wheels :) Can you elaborate on the lack of the "nicer build" part on the cobalt/element? Aside from the crappy suspension are we talking about the frame and the overall finish of the shell and materials used for the trailer cabin itself? I'm curious as I if it's something I'm going to be upgrading then it's really not a big deal for me. If you have pics of your current config that'll be nice to see to give me a better perspective.


The cobalt looked cheap to me, the exterior seemed like a gray laminate that wouldn't take much abuse, the roof raise and support mechanism seem chincy, I really didn't like the black interior. After looking online I was convinced that it what I wanted, after looking at it I wasn't convinced. Thats just me though and it was a used one at a dealer. go look at one if you think it's what you want.

2 other things about the cobalt, it is an 8 foot box, that is really small for more than 1 or 2 people. A 10 foot is the smallest I would consider. A 10 foot box usually gets you one queen bed, an 8' is usually max of a double bed. And the cobalt doesn't have a fridge. I never thought I would use the fridge but it is great. Runs a long time on a little propane (or 12v or 120v) and keeps things very cold. No need to worry about Ice. It's small but great. Better than an engle since it runs on propane.

I looked at the Jayco Baja the most and felt that the suspension was adequate for I would do with it. The tire size seemed adequate, no way the wife is going to let me put 37's on the tent trailer. 31's are fine for easier trails, I don't think I would take it on anything that needed larger tires, too large and heavy.

Here is pic of mine, it is a 2000 fairly stripped model, a good starter unit for us and much cheaper than a new one. Not offroad capable but makes a good base camp, sleeps 6 with table seating for 6 too.

http://i31.photobucket.com/albums/c374/robG2/tenttrailer.jpg

The craigslist Jayco is way overpriced for me. You could pick up a new one for not much more than that. I saw that fixeruper, looks like it should be a breeze after restoring your front end.

You are right that being able to stand up and just get out of the elements is huge. Especially for the significant others. I'd love the luxury of a travel trailer but I can't tow it and I don't have the room to store it so the tent trailer works better for us. Not as luxurious but way better than a tent especially in the cold and wet.

[reggie 00]

You can get em out where ever you want if you try.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/reggiemiller00/IMG_0401.jpg

This is about 2.5hrs off the freeway up by Truckee,Ca.

My Uncle takes his 5th wheel to some pretty crazy places when he goes hunting. He does Idaho, Montana, and what not.

He talked my Brother in to trying it out.
We had that thing pretty flexed at times.

Was much better than tenting it, especially for meals, and when it started snowing on us.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/reggiemiller00/IMG_0400.jpg

These guys where up a few hundred yards from us.
They had tent trailers and a smaller bumper pulled.

http://i109.photobucket.com/albums/n74/reggiemiller00/IMG_0407.jpg

Much better,

I'll save ya from having to look at the heater on lounge pictures.
Especially since it was after 8hrs of trekking thru the mountains.

[4x4mike]

I think it would be nice to have a trailer at camp but the maintenance, hauling, driving 55, etc would be a pain. The topic has been brought up on a lot of different forums as you've noticed. Recently on Pirate:

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=673339

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=657864&highlight=trail+trailer

The 600+ miles home from JT would have been slow hauling a trailer.

[paddlenbike]

The thing I miss most when tent camping is a shower. Most RVs that have showers are 17+ feet in length and you won't be going offroad with anything of this size. I am still tent camping for this reason.

To make tent camping more enjoyable, I bought two really nice REI sleeping pads:
http://media.rei.com/media/507037.jpg
I now sleep much better at night. I still have a hot/cold temp regulation problem, which I will probably address by ditching my mummy-bag and going with a regular sleeping bag with a comforter on top. At this point, I should sleep the same as I would in an RV.

I have yet to get wet in a tent even though I am using the cheapest tent known to man.

Having a small sink with hot water is really nice to have for dishes and shaving in the morning. Coleman makes their "hot water on demand" system with a sink basin to address this issue.

At this point you have most of the luxuries of a sub-17 foot RV, except you can drive whatever speed you want both on and offroad and little preparation/cleanup before and after a trip. Oh yeah, and 20 MPG to boot.

I don't think you'll be happy with taking any RV offroad. I had an ultralight 4Wheel Pop Up Camper (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/camper/05210014.jpg) designed for offroad use and it was still painful on all but dirt roads. It gave me a sink with hot water, but still no shower. Sold it.

When I can afford it, (probably at retirement), I want a Class A with my 4Runner behind it. Now I've got my separate 4x4 for offroad use, a sink AND a shower and a large place to hang out on extended trips with foul weather.

[4x4mike]

When I can afford it, (probably at retirement), I want a Class A with my 4Runner behind it. Now I've got my separate 4x4 for offroad use, a sink AND a shower and a large place to hang out on extended trips with foul weather.

Don't forget about the microwave for pizza rolls and a flushable pooper.

[paddlenbike]

My opinion of tent camping is subject to change. Take a look at what pops just picked up. [2008 3-slide diesel pusher.] (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/DP/)

[Good Times]

holy mother of...........

so you think we can borrow one of those for the june lake trip next time? ;)

[Bob98SR5]

good gawd, ken. please tell me what profession your pops is in NOW!

[Good Times]

Mike, good find on those links to Pirate. I totally forgot to check there to see what others have tackled there. I completely understand the "pain" of towing a trailer.

Ken, you are correct in that having a great pad makes a world of a difference! I've been using the egg shell stuff and they've been pretty durable but just not as good as the self inflating stuff. That's actually something on the list of "to buy" at REI as soon as I can score some great deals through their rei-outlet store. The sleeping bag as a bed with the comforter on top is a great idea! Sadly every time we did that I lost the comforter and froze my rear off so the mummified bags works for me :tapedshut:

Reggie, I think that this is too much for me! Though I would be camping in style but there is no way in my lifetime would I be able to afford one of those. They do look pretty sweet and I've actually been in a few of them.

The thought of purchasing a trailer/camper is really not a clear cut decision. I wish it was but outside of the "cool factor" the thought of storage, maintenance as well as insurance (I think it's required right?) are things I need to deal with so it will definitely affect my final decision. Though I have ample space for storage it does take up space so it is something I will need to consider.

Like what RobG said, taking a trailer does open up a whole new "element" to camping. I guess it really just comes down to what kind of compromises you want by including the whole "trailer" element.

My vision of the trailer camping would be more geared towards setting up a base camp and then use the 4runner to explore outside of the camping region. The base camp should have ample space for a family of 4 and a dog or two. The ability to have showers, private facilities and storage for additional gear and supplies at base camp. I'm not certain if I really need the trailer to include the shower/poopie. As long as it can store plenty of water I can always just pick up one of those shower/poopie tents for under $50 and either install a hot shower setup on the 4runner or pick up one of those portable camping showers.

At any rate I don't plan to have the +2 (kids) anytime soon so the urgency on the trailer is definitely not an issue for me. It is something that I do want to research a lot more as over time these new trailers I'm eyeballing now would be the used stuff I find in a handful of years to come on craigslist. :)

[RobG]

Yeah that diesel pusher is the sweet. Did you get your own set of keys?

Lance, Back to your original idea of the cobalt on a beefy suspension. I think that Idea really does has some merit. When I was looking at it I was surprised by how small it was, but if there are only 2 of you or 2 adults and some small kids you could definitely get some good use out of it. Being very small and light you add some beef to the frame, a good suspension, some MTRs and you would have a good Hybrid trailer that could tackle moderate trails. Been thinking about that and it and I was bothered by what I said and didn't want to discourage you from perusing that. Keep an eye out, they are rare but do pop up used every now and then.

Tent camping is great, you can't beat it for one nighters along the trail. The trailer/base camp thing works well for me because my wife isn't a camper and won't tolerate anything more than a moderate trail. This way we get to go more places together. Works well for us.

Bringing the camper isn't that big a deal, in doesn't take long to pack or hook up, you can cruise at 65-70mph (where you are not 3.0 limited), and camp setup and breakdown is faster than a tent. Having 5 of us in a 2nd gen 4runner space is at a premium, the trailer lets you bring a lot more stuff. Definitely seems to work well for is, right now at least.

[paddlenbike]

holy mother of...........
so you think we can borrow one of those for the june lake trip next time?




good gawd, ken. please tell me what profession your pops is in NOW!



Yeah that diesel pusher is the sweet. Did you get your own set of keys?

LOL. I don't think I could afford the diesel fuel!

Monday was his first day of retirement and he will be using it for the next three months. You can avoid California sales tax on an RV if you provide fuel and/or campground reciepts that show you used the vehicle outside of the state for the first 3 months. 7.75% sales tax adds up fast.

For anyone interested in buying an RV, right now is the time! He paid far less than MSRP (and well below dealer cost) because the RV manufacturers are bankrupt. We're talking about more than $50k under MSRP.

It has a Cummins intercooled turbo diesel, a push-button Allison 6-speed transmission and is built on a Freightliner chassis. If you buy a gas motorhome, you get a noisy gas engine up front, hydraulic brakes and leaf spring/beam axle suspension. Buy a diesel pusher and you get a diesel engine in the rear that you nearly can't hear underway, an IFS airbag suspension that rides really nice and those ultra-cool air brakes. PSSSHHHHH.

http://www.giantrvonline.com/special/diesel-tour/xc.jpg

Rolling up in the thing is pretty impressive. Set the brakes, dump the air out of the suspension to kneel it, push a button to auto-level the coach, push another button to electrically extend the living room, dining room and bedroom, open the door and the steps fold out and illuminate, and hit another button and the awnings electrically unfurl and provide shade. It's really fun to watch. If the wind comes up the awnings automatically roll up. If it detects rain drops, the roof vents/sunroof automatically close. Nothing electrical to go wrong here!

If you don't particularly care about the shower issue, those teardrop trailers look pretty sweet and there are plans galore to build one yourself. Google "little guy teardrop."
http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/forum/little_guy_teardrop.jpg

[jrallan26]

I am also toying with the idea with getting a camper. I am not into camping that much but my son is a boy scout and a avid camper.

[gilby4runner]

I have thought about getting 5x10 enclosed caro trailer and doing a few mods to it for camping. Camper Skylight, folding bunks, and a few other small things would make it a good camping rig. You could haul an ATV and your cargo and still have a decent camper.

[Good Times]

Want the best of both worlds of having a tear drop and a pop up offroad camper?

http://www.jurgenssafari.co.za/images/new_xcape.jpg

Source: Jurgens Safari Website (http://www.jurgenssafari.co.za/xcape.htm)

Drool baby! There is no way I would be able to afford one but shoot this definitely opens up some doors on possibly building one!

Ahh I'm such a dreamer! :ban:

[jrallan26]

Sweet!