$1 / gallon of ethonal plant in US for 2009!

[Good Times]

Woot Woot! In time for the $5 in gas we'll be payin :chair:



Cellulosic-ethanol company Coskata on Friday announced that it has broken ground on a plant in Pennsylvania that will be operating by early next year.

Coskata has a technology that combines a gasification chamber and a bioreactor to make ethanol from a variety of feedstocks, such as wood chips or even tires. General Motors, Khosla Ventures, and Advanced Technology Partners are investors.

The $25 million plant in Madison, Pa., will make 40,000 gallons per year. At that size, it's meant to demonstrate the process at commercial scale. Its plans also call for a full-scale facility, producing 50 million gallons to 100 million gallons a year of ethanol, by 2011.

The company has said it can produce ethanol at $1 per gallon and that its process is clean, able to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 84 percent, compared to gasoline. Corn ethanol, meanwhile, makes about the same greenhouse gases as gasoline production.

The plant-building plans were announced by Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell. Many states are eager to provide incentives to start-ups like Coskata, such as tax breaks, to create clean-tech "clusters."

Source: CNet (http://www.news.com/8301-11128_3-9928810-54.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20)

[ChickenLover]

Go ethanol! The invisible fuel.. It does virtually nothing for energy independence, yet drives the price of EVERYTHING else up. Yay!

We're already rationing grain sales here in America because of this bullsh!t. Which is something I never thought I'd live to see. And let's not mention the poor third-world folks who depend on American grain to survive. Their American-grain-induced flatus is probably contributing to gorebull warming, anyway.

Here's a suggestion, albeit radical:
Grow grain for food, and DRILL for f-cking oil...


Nah, that makes too much sense.

[Bob98SR5]

mr. chicken,

110% agreed, except it appears they are using by products, not the whole usuable/edible corn like traditional ethanol uses.

[dontdo_that]

While I support alternative energy and even ethanol to a certain extent, I completely disagree with using foods for the production of fuels. There are other things that can be used to create biofuels. For instance Jatropha, which is an invasive weed, can be used to produce biodiesel. This plant in PA will create biofuel (ethanol) out of waste products.. or atleast such is the goal. Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline in that it its combustion does not produce as much usable kinetic energy, and its production from certain products releases significant amounts of carbon dioxide gas. But their aim here is to eliminate the downfalls of ethanol.

Plus ethanol still allows for internal combustion engines, which in turn can have bitchin exhaust notes.. fuel cell is cool and all, but damn.. having an dead silent BMW M5 would just be wierd =\

[neliconcept]

While I support alternative energy and even ethanol to a certain extent, I completely disagree with using foods for the production of fuels. There are other things that can be used to create biofuels. For instance Jatropha, which is an invasive weed, can be used to produce biodiesel. This plant in PA will create biofuel (ethanol) out of waste products.. or atleast such is the goal. Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline in that it its combustion does not produce as much usable kinetic energy, and its production from certain products releases significant amounts of carbon dioxide gas. But their aim here is to eliminate the downfalls of ethanol.

Plus ethanol still allows for internal combustion engines, which in turn can have bitchin exhaust notes.. fuel cell is cool and all, but damn.. having an dead silent BMW M5 would just be wierd =\


which is why i have no effing idea why hemp and sugarcane are not used more. our gov must be idiots not to try other sources for fuel.

ethanol ethanol and ethanol, wtf? others out there

[oly884]

While I support alternative energy and even ethanol to a certain extent, I completely disagree with using foods for the production of fuels. There are other things that can be used to create biofuels. For instance Jatropha, which is an invasive weed, can be used to produce biodiesel. This plant in PA will create biofuel (ethanol) out of waste products.. or atleast such is the goal. Ethanol is less efficient than gasoline in that it its combustion does not produce as much usable kinetic energy, and its production from certain products releases significant amounts of carbon dioxide gas. But their aim here is to eliminate the downfalls of ethanol.

Plus ethanol still allows for internal combustion engines, which in turn can have bitchin exhaust notes.. fuel cell is cool and all, but damn.. having an dead silent BMW M5 would just be wierd =\


which is why i have no effing idea why hemp and sugarcane are not used more. our gov must be idiots not to try other sources for fuel.

ethanol ethanol and ethanol, wtf? others out there


Sugarcane is used because turning that into ethanol is very easy. Hemp is no different than grass clippings, wood chips, etc. Hemp is a source of raw cellulose, not raw glucose.

Sugarcane isn't used because it can't grow well in many places of the US thus making it useless for us. Hemp isn't used because grass, wood, and corn stalks would work just as well.

Ethanol will only be a sustainable source of fuel if it can be derived from cellulose. We are ALL feeling and seeing the effects of what happens when we use corn as a source.

[neliconcept]

what about soybeans? i know that illinois has some farms up there for the production of soybeans as the main derivative

[gilby4runner]

they need to use something that isn't a major part of the food industry. The idea of alternative fuels has pushed up prices. Hopefully the focus can be turned to prairie grass or some other plant that we don't rely on for food.

[oly884]

what about soybeans? i know that illinois has some farms up there for the production of soybeans as the main derivative


Soybeans = food

fuel is meant to be burned for power

You wouldn't burn bread to heat your house, would you?

Utilizing a food source, no matter how basic, is a terrible idea for fuel. Because as population grows, BOTH fuel and food production need to go up. If both don't go up, we see the price of both go up as well.

[drguitarum2005]

why dont they use the damn Kudzu that covers 800 million acres of the South? It's basically useless and is IMPOSSIBLE to kill...

[oly884]

why dont they use the damn Kudzu that covers 800 million acres of the South? It's basically useless and is IMPOSSIBLE to kill...


At some point, I'm sure we will. The difficulty is in the conversion of cellulose to glucose/xylose.

Glucose/xylose can be fermented quite easily into ethanol, after all, that's how we get our beers and wines. It can even be fermented into lactic acid which can, in turn, be polymerized and made into polylactic acid (PLA) which is the most basic form of bioplastics.

Anyhoo, the conversion of cellulose to glucose/xylose does take place when in contact with certain enzymes. These enzymes are found in the stomachs of cows and the digestive systems of termites (other creatures have similar enzymes too). The problem is obtaining enough of these enzymes to make a full scale plant. Not only is the problem in making enough, but making enough affordable.

My senior design project at Montana State was to, with a team, design a full scale polylactic acid plant from scratch. It took two semesters to complete, but when we were done, it gave some pretty cool insights into where the future can take us. The largest problem that we tackled was the amount and cost of enzymes available when we started (late 2006). We addressed the issue by making a simple assumption that they were affordable and plentiful. When that IS the case, then the project was a huge success.

So, to bring this back to your initial question, we can't use them yet until a process of converting cellulose into fermentable sugars is made cheap and easy.

[neliconcept]

the technology is there to pull glucose from hemp. just a hard cycle

[oly884]

the technology is there to pull glucose from hemp. just a hard cycle


The technology is there to send people to the moon, but why isn't there a line across the country?

The cost. It plays a MASSIVE factor in the feasibility of things. It simply costs too much money to make a large scale plant that "pulls" glucose from hemp.

Cellulose from hemp is no different than cellulose from grass or trees.

What exactly do you mean "just a hard cycle?" No intent to be condescending by any means, just trying to understand what you are saying. There is no cycle so-to-speak, there is a process however.