Weird Front-End CLUNK... = UPDATE = PROBLEM SOLVED

[bamachem]

I have developed this weird front-end CLUNK that I'm having trouble diagnosing.

The noise occurs when the steering wheel is turned at least partially, and I move slowly over a bump, like a speed bump or rain gutter while turning, either steering wheel fixed on one position or in the process of moving. Most of the time, there will be some small "crack" noises here and there with one loud clunk/pop noise. It happens ONLY when going slowly AND turning. It will not do it when cycling the suspension while stationary, and it doesn't do it when going fast or straight. The sound appears to be coming from the driver side only.

I have checked the ball joints, and they appear to be perfect, no play, and good boots. The steering is nice and tight, and the linkages seem to be in good condition with no play, etc. No clicks when turning on flat, level ground w/ the AWD engaged. The top nut on the strut is good and tight, and the bushings on the top and bottom of the top plate appear to be in good shaope. Weird...

Anyway, I'm thinking that it's a CV axle/joint, and here's why. When turning, the CV joint is in a different position than for straight, normal driving. Combine that with a cycle of the suspension (upwards) and the CV joints on the driver side have to compress to take up the additional length as the wheel hub gets closer to the same elevation as the output of the differential.

I'm pretty sure that this is my issue, but I just want to check here to make sure. I have some Poly steering rack bushings (first thing I checked) ready to install since mine allow the rack to move almost an inch on flat ground. I'm also ready to replace the front shocks (148k on them) since the lower eye bushings are very weak even though the shocks still feel fine. I'm thinking of getting an Auto Zone CV Axle for $70 and swapping that while I'm already doing the other work.

Has anyone else had a similar noise, and if so, what was the cause?

[Lee]

i was thinking cv too...

[Vermejo]

If you rack checked out seems correct that your CV is issue. I just replaced both of mine; one ripped out of the cage and the other clicking on turns.

[4Runner202020]

the are like $130 at autozone i suggest napa. i just got one there for $62. but at autozone they keep you in the computer for the lifetime warrenty but at napa you have to keep your recept. (or however you spell it. lol) but ya it does sound cv related...

[Lee]

advance sells them for i think 70 with lifetime too :)

[BruceTS]

CV or swaybar bushing/mount

[Seanz0rz]

im battling the same clunking sound. i have a few other things to eliminate before i tackle new CV's, but im pretty sure thats what the issue is. hope that solves your problem. im also looking at replacing control arm bushings up front. mine have 150 miles on them and are probably shot.

[bamachem]

thanks for the input. the swaybar mount bushings are beginning to show a little weakness, but not to the point of deterioration. the end link bushings look good, and the nuts are on tight, so i don't think it's swaybar binding on the threads of the links.

i'm really leaning to the CV.

i think it was Advance, not Auto Zone that i got the last ones for the red 4runner for $70 each or something like that. i'll probably just get one of them and pop it in when i'm in there swapping front shocks and steering rack bushings.

[Lee]

andy, you ever post a pic of the black runner??

[bamachem]

lol... come to think of it, i don't think i have.

it's stock, two-tone limited, except for the 17" sequoia gunmetal wheels (265/75 revo's on them).

[Lee]

gonna need a visual :D

[bamachem]

Ok, problem solved.

Last weekend, I swapped the Steering Rack Bushings to some Poly Performance Bushings from Wheeler's. Steering response was MUCH improved and it felt so much better driving down the road, but the clunk was still there. Not as bad it seemed like, but still there.

So this morning, I was planning on pulling the driver-side CV for a swap. Advance couldn't get one in until 1pm, so it was a good time to do an oil change (Mobil1 Extended drain mixed with two quarts of Royal Purple...) Anyway, while under there w/ the skid plates off, I was checking everything that I could.

Ball joints - OK
Steering linkage ends - OK
Pulled the boot off the DS steering linkage where it goes into the rack - OK
Checked the play in the CV shaft, bother laterally and axially - OK.

Looked around, perplexed. That's when I noticed it.

The driver front Alignment Cam bolt was in a different spot than where it was last weekend when I was working on the steering rack. Looked at the Passenger Rear Cam - SAME THING!

These two are the ones that the suspension compression movement will loosen up if they're not properly torqued. As the arm travels upward (typical movement when on-road, hitting bumps), the rotational direction that it moves is the same direction that will loosen the bolt. For the driver rear and passenger front, the movement is in the direction that would TIGHTEN the bolts. Therefore, only the Driver Front and Passenger Rear bolts require a higher torque than what's listed in the FSM. I torque these two trouble-makers to at least 80 ft-lbs and like to get them upwards of 90.

I tightened them down, and now the CLUNK is gone!

I never thought that those bolts being loose would cause such a horrible noise that would be absolutely next to impossible to diagnose.

Anyway, PROBLEM SOLVED!

[Bob98SR5]

andy,

sweet. hey, can you take/post some pics?

bob

[bamachem]

pics? of the cam/bolts? sure...

[Skrillah]

Yeah for us more "newbies"...

Although, I've been in my runner for 3 years now. ;-p

[corax]

Since those cam bolts control Caster and Camber and they've been moving around, you might want to get it aligned in the near future.

[bamachem]

yeah, they also control toe to some extent since moving either the front or the rear actually changes the distance between the wheels and since the steering linkages are a fixed distance, all three measurements of alignment are thrown out.

an alignment is definitely in order.

[bamachem]

pics:

can you tell that this thing has never been offroad? lol... look at those stickers from the MFG plant in japan...

http://4rnr.net/Black-99/pic--2.jpg



now for the alignment adjustment cams/bolts.

to adjust the alignment, you loosen a bolt, then put a wrench on the nut/cam and turn it. the cam then pushes the a-arm either outboard or inboard, adjusting the distance of the bottom arm mounting points in relation to the top arm mounting points, which are fixed.

view from the front. the cam circled is the driver rear alignment adjustment, and the bolt head that you loosen for adjustment is on the other side of the frame mount for the arm.

http://4rnr.net/Black-99/pic--1.jpg

view from the front. the bolt pictured ON THE RIGHT is the driver front alignment adjustment, cam is on the back side of the frame mounting point. the cam ON THE LEFT is the passenger rear alignment adjustment, bolt is on the other side, and is in the last pic as well.

http://4rnr.net/Black-99/pic--3.jpg

view from behind the passenger tire. the circle on the bottom is the passenger rear alignment bolt, cam is on the other side of the frame mount, and is shown on the left in the previous pic. the circle on the top is the jam-nut for adjusting the toe. this nut should have at least 30 ft-lbs of torque on it. there is another one on the other side as well.

http://4rnr.net/Black-99/pic--4.jpg

[Bob98SR5]

andy,

having never done this, is the vehicle jacked up while you are doing this?

[bamachem]

doing what? adjusting the alignment? no. it needs to be resting on a flat surface - as flat as you can get it like a garage floor.

i didn't do an alignment on it, i just torqued down the bolts. i know that they're not right, but i was just wanting to see if the noise stopped when they were tight, and it did. i'll take it in one day this week for an alignment, where i'll stand next to the guy and watch to make sure that they do the caster first, then camber, then toe, then reiterate until all is within spec. most alignment places will ONLY adjust toe, then send you out the door. the reason? most quick shops that do alignments have staff that ONLY know how to adjust the toe. unless you find someone with LOTS of experience, they usually don't know how. the dealership with a veteran tech is the best bet of getting it done RIGHT. once it's done, then request that they put at LEAST 80 ft-lbs of torque on the driver front and passenger rear adjustment bolts. i usually put a wrench on all 4 of them ASAP and retighten them all down before they can move and throw the alignment off.

[Bob98SR5]

andy,

ok, got it. i guess i did not understand the difference. thanks for clarifying. i have a horrible clunk on the right side that is getting worse by the day. also on the driver's side, a torn clickly cv boot.

thanks again

[bamachem]

mine was weird. it would CLUNK when i was backing up and made a slight turn, especially if i cut the wheel to the right. i would get that loud CLUNK and several smaller SNAP noises. it was not the CLICK sound that a CV typically makes, and it would only do it when moving forward if i was going very slow, partial turn and hit a bump, or if i was in the process of turning all the way to the steering stop, then it would do it as well. it would not do it simply turning like a CV does either. definitely tempermental and perplexing to say the least.

best bet would be to get a large wrench and see if you can tighten those bolt heads at all. it wouldn't take much to know if they were loose or not. i have a long 14"-16" crescent wrench that i use to tighten them. if you tighten them, even a little, and the noise goes away for a while, then you know exactly what's causing it. if that doesn't fix it, also make sure that your sway bar links are tight and the pivot joints are still good as well.

[Seanz0rz]

looks like its time to check mine! i know i need an alignment anyway. maybe next week...

[Bob98SR5]

mine was weird. it would CLUNK when i was backing up and made a slight turn, especially if i cut the wheel to the right. i would get that loud CLUNK and several smaller SNAP noises. it was not the CLICK sound that a CV typically makes, and it would only do it when moving forward if i was going very slow, partial turn and hit a bump, or if i was in the process of turning all the way to the steering stop, then it would do it as well. it would not do it simply turning like a CV does either. definitely tempermental and perplexing to say the least.

best bet would be to get a large wrench and see if you can tighten those bolt heads at all. it wouldn't take much to know if they were loose or not. i have a long 14"-16" crescent wrench that i use to tighten them. if you tighten them, even a little, and the noise goes away for a while, then you know exactly what's causing it. if that doesn't fix it, also make sure that your sway bar links are tight and the pivot joints are still good as well.


Andy,

You described my problem to a T in the first sentence. Man, I'm gonna get on this as soon as it cools down!

Bob

[corax]

i'll take it in one day this week for an alignment, where i'll stand next to the guy and watch to make sure that they do the caster first, then camber, then toe, then reiterate until all is within spec. most alignment places will ONLY adjust toe, then send you out the door. the reason? most quick shops that do alignments have staff that ONLY know how to adjust the toe. unless you find someone with LOTS of experience, they usually don't know how. the dealership with a veteran tech is the best bet of getting it done RIGHT.


I actually took mine to Sears about a month ago for an alignment. It was painful letting someone else work on my truck, but since I no longer work in a shop or have access to a rack I had to. I talked to the kid (early twenties) that was going to do the alignment and he actually did a pretty good job. One of the adjusters was frozen, so he compromised with a bit less caster on the driver side to get camber into specs (~.7 degrees cross caster total). He spent a ton of time trying to get that one adjuster to move and explained what took so long afterwards. Considering it was Sears, I was impressed and gave him a $20 tip.

BTW, if you can, take it to a shop that isn't flat rate. I think that's why I got a good job done at Sears, the techs get paid hourly. A flat rate tech just wants to get it done and out of his bay so he can move onto the next job and make money. Also, talk to the tech before hand - it puts a human face to the job. If the work is good, tips are always welcome and the tech will remember you next time.

[bamachem]

Andy,

You described my problem to a T in the first sentence. Man, I'm gonna get on this as soon as it cools down!

Bob



i'd get them at least tight ASAP. you don't need one of your critical suspension linkages to be flopping around loose. it's about 30-seconds each side to check them and snug them up once you take the skid plate off. (which i'm leaving off mine for a while. it just drops that much more weight and makes it easier for the tech when i get the alignment taken care of.)

until you get the time to get under there, tighten those bolts up and then take it in for an alignment, here's som good reading material on how it should be done PROPERLY. some have even printed this out and taken it to their shop to give it to the tech doing the alignment.

LINK to "Alignment 101 & FAQ Thread" (http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=321.0)

[Tanto]

Although you say you don't offroad in your 4Runner, it may be beneficial to bring a bottle of LockTite Blue when you go to get you alignment done so that you won't have to worry about the bolts backing out again.

[frydriceT4R]

very good thread bamachem and thanks for the follow up and the pictures to help us newbs out.

[p nut]

I had this same problem on my old 98 4Runner. I also experienced almost a death-wobble-like shake at speeds above 40mph if I hit a little bump on the road. Could this also be the cause of that?

[Tanto]

Yes. I had the same problem when my LCA bolts were loose after an alignment.

[KZN185W]

Andy,

what is that skid plate on the driver's side for? I'm referring to the one behind the bolt that you encircled and in front of the fuel tank and the transfer case skid plate.

Thanks!

[quote=bamachem ]


http://4rnr.net/Black-99/pic--1.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

it is a plastic shield that keeps stuff away from the fuel lines/filter. just plastic.

[YotaFun]

it is a plastic shield that keeps stuff away from the fuel lines/filter. just plastic.


was that available form 96-98?
cause i don't remember having that and i don't see mount point on mine for it...

[Seanz0rz]

yea, i had it on mine, took it off because it was in my way. ill take some pics of the mounting points if i remember.

[YotaFun]

hm,mm maybe i ripped mine off without know...

[bamachem]

it's just plastic and gets torn up easily. the only reason this one looks new is because this truck had never so much as been down a dirt road when i got it. still hasn't. :D