MIG, ARC or TIG?

[MTL_4runner]

Which one of these is the easiest to get started with and why?

[Piett]

I suppose ARC is. I learned in the order ARC, MIG, then TIG. Not that I can weld anymore since I don't practice.

ARC machine setup is the simplest and all of the control is the electric arc distance, angle and speed you move.

With MIG you still have that but since the wire is automatic feeding you have the set wire feed based on the the travel speed and the voltage (dependent on thickness).

TIG is more similar to ARC but these have foot for voltage and you have to be able to use your other hand to control the filler rod.

ARC machines are cheapest but are a hassle since you have to remove the slag. MIG is my preference due to convenience but cost is higher. IMO TIG is the trickiest but you can do stainless, aluminum, cromoly, etc. No matter what the best thing you can do is get practice.

I am sure there will be additional comments.
Geoff

[garrett]

i learned MIG before ARC and i thought MIG was much easier.... i suck at ARC

don't know anything about TIG

[waskillywabbit]

Real welders start by learning how to use a torch, then to stick, then to MIG, etc. :D

:guitar:

[garrett]

i must be going backwards cause i learned MIG, ARC, then torch haha

[bamachem]

honestly, i've done flux, MIG, & TIG and i would have to say without a doubt that flux is the easiest. it's literally a matter of setting amps, wire speed, then just point and shoot. from there, it's practice to get good at it. after that, then you work up to MIG and TIG.

[Robinhood4x4]

Mig is the easiest to learn since everything is automatic. Put the torch close to the work piece and pull the trigger. The tricky part is learning the settings like how much power to use, wire speed, and how fast to move the torch. But even the settings are mapped out for you in a table under the cover. Of course those are just ballpark estimates.

Stick is the next hardest because it takes skill to learn how to strike an arc and keep it going. You have to move the stick closer as it gets consumed and also move it along the seam you're trying to weld. Getting the arc going in the first place is the hardest part because the stick always gets stuck to the work piece and you gotta free it before the stick melts.

Tig is the hardest and most complicated of the three. Not only do you need skill to strike the arc but you also have to feed filler rod in with your other hand and control the power with a foot pedal. It's kinda like gas welding in that you form a puddle of metal and feed the filler rod into the puddle. In the mean time your foot isn't steady because you haven't gotten used to the feel and you end up melting through the metal or the arc goes out. Plus there's a tungsten tip in the torch that constantly needs sharpening with a grinding wheel because you keep accidentally dipping it in the puddle.

[slosurfer]

I am in the middle of a beginning welding class, I have to say that those that can TIG really well are amazing, especially look at some aluminum bike frames. We have mainly done stick and cutting but spent a day or two on MIG, TIG, and Flux core. So far, I really dig stick welding.

My question is: which would be the most practical to have in my garage for fabbing bumpers and building up my trailer? My concern with the MIG is whether or not the welds are strong enough for 1/4 plate. It seems like the instructors and textbooks cut it off at 5/16ths, but it seems like I see it being used all the time for builds. Thoughts?

[bamachem]

if you want 1/4" plate butt and fillet welds that look like stacked dimes, then you'll need a 240V MIG machine.

[Cheese]

In my course, we started with an Oxy/fuel torch, then added rod.

After that Stick, then MIG, then TIG.

If you put the MIG on the right settings or close, I can do all right. I still like the control of TIG and feel more comfortable with the puddle control.

With any of this, practice is the key.

[Robinhood4x4]

My question is: which would be the most practical to have in my garage for fabbing bumpers and building up my trailer? My concern with the MIG is whether or not the welds are strong enough for 1/4 plate. It seems like the instructors and textbooks cut it off at 5/16ths, but it seems like I see it being used all the time for builds. Thoughts?


Well what you do is bevel the edges so you get better penetration in thick material. Then make multiple passes if you really need to. But, multiple passes won't make up for 110V lack of penetration.

I'd go with 220 mig for an all around welder.

[MTL_4runner]

Andy, when you say "flux welding" are you talking about gas/torch welding or flux cored MIG?

[bamachem]

flux core, wire feed machine.

i have a Hobart 125 (110V) that i built my bumper with. i got it *lightly* used off of eBay for right at $300 shipped. i'll eventually add a MIG kit and go gas. with flux wire, i burned 3/16" butt and fillet no problems. you can't do *quite* as thick w/ MIG because the gas tends to cool the arc a little and you don't get as good of penetration.

TIG is fun, especially when you get to use a $8K Miller to play with on 316L stainless - for free! :D the cool thing is that we also have mini-TIG's that are 110V with tiny bottles that i can take home as well. i haven't done it yet, but i also haven't had the time to work on anything, either.

[MTL_4runner]

I have been looking at getting a Lincoln SP-175 (because I thought I needed the power of 220V), but I didn't think about the gas having a cooling effect on the arc (makes perfect sense though!). It would be nicer (and alot less expensive) to just get a 110V Lincoln 140 MIG or a Lincoln Pak 10 and then just use it with flux cored wire. I'm not likely to be working with anything more than 3/16" anyway, most of the tasks would just be house related projects or fixes on items.

I did hear that flux core wire "spits" alot more than if you're using gas. Is that true?

[ADH8796]

Real welders start by learning how to use a torch, then to stick, then to MIG, etc.

This is also how I started. I would have to say that if you can learn ARC before MIG that you will be much better at MIG at least this is how it normally works. Most welding classes will teach you ARC, MIG, GAS, and then TIG I really don't know that it matters. The only thing that makes you a better welder is how much time you spend welding and it probably helps to have a little natural tallent as well.

[ADH8796]

Oh yeah and Flux core has more spatter but isn't really any weaker just not as clean looking.

[MTL_4runner]

So I suppose as long as you had a grinder handy that wouldn't be an issue to clean the buggers off after you're done.

[waskillywabbit]

Jamie

If you are looking at getting a welder get the biggest one you can afford, as you've probably heard before. I just bought a MM 251 wire (MIG and flux) and I'll never have to buy another welder. I have a smaller 135 too for small intricate stuff but for welding on the truck...go big. :D

:guitar:

[bamachem]

the only thing w/ that is that I disagree somewhat for the general "hobby" welder.

i *could* afford a 251 if i wanted one, but for what i use it for and how often i use it wouldn't justify it, where with Brian, he almost *needs* a 251.

the difference? i can get by w/ flux and then follow up w/ my angle grinder using a HIGH-RPM backing plate and 80-grit sanding disc paper. i built my bumper w/ my 110 machine and it worked fine. it was slower than if i had a $1000 100% duty cycle machine since i had to take breaks to let the machine rest, but i also wasn't going to be building more than one bumper.

a 125 to 140 machine will be good for 99% of the people on this board. if you need bigger, and can justify the expense, then by all means go 220V and at least 200 amps. however, for the occasional build and all-around hobby welding, it's hard to beat a 110 machine for the ease of use, versatility, and the power that you get w/o having to run a dedicated 220V circuit to your garage.

[Piett]

power that you get w/o having to run a dedicated 220V circuit to your garage.


But you know that you need the 220v line for the air compressor anyway...

[bamachem]

lol... true! :D unless you're like me and aren't going to be in the house more than a couple years and didn't waste the time to run a 220V line for a new compressor and welder. i just stuck w/ 110 stuff for now. eventually, when i have my own detached shop for my toys, then i'll have 220V and probably will upgrade (because i will *need* to? no, just because by then, i can w/o worrying about the cost :D ).

[MTL_4runner]

the only thing w/ that is that I disagree somewhat for the general "hobby" welder.

i *could* afford a 251 if i wanted one, but for what i use it for and how often i use it wouldn't justify it, where with Brian, he almost *needs* a 251.

the difference? i can get by w/ flux and then follow up w/ my angle grinder using a HIGH-RPM backing plate and 80-grit sanding disc paper. i built my bumper w/ my 110 machine and it worked fine. it was slower than if i had a $1000 100% duty cycle machine since i had to take breaks to let the machine rest, but i also wasn't going to be building more than one bumper.

a 125 to 140 machine will be good for 99% of the people on this board. if you need bigger, and can justify the expense, then by all means go 220V and at least 200 amps. however, for the occasional build and all-around hobby welding, it's hard to beat a 110 machine for the ease of use, versatility, and the power that you get w/o having to run a dedicated 220V circuit to your garage.


I am in the exact same boat....I could afford one no problem, but how much power do I really need to get stuff done (I'm not going to be building offroad bumpers with this). Plus if I get a 220V then it pretty well guarantees it's not portable (physically yes, but few people have 220V at their house so if I want to bring my welder over to my father-in-law's house to fix something, I can't......he's got to bring it to my house or he's SOL). It would be nice to maybe have something I could use with a small gas generator to make a truely portable setup.

[bamachem]

that was my idea as well - portability - and it has paid off. not only that, but you can also take it w/ you on wheeling trip if you're staying at a campground so you can make some repairs if you absolutely had to using the campsite feed.

[Robinhood4x4]

220 doesn't have to be that big, some of the are easily portable. My brother has one that's about 10 inch wide, 20 inch long and 16 inch tall and it even has a carrying handle.

Is 220 scarce in your part of the country? Every house here has 220 for the dryer and that's what I've always used.

Ideally, you shouldn't have to grind off weld. Keeping those nice stacked dimes is stronger than if you grind them off. Of course, that takes a little bit of practice. But yeah, you need to chip away the slag with flux core.

[PhorunninDuke]

If you use flux you WILL need a grinder.

After learning to use a torch, everything else is pretty dang easy imo.

I have a lincoln sp-175. Putting 220 in the garage wasn't a big deal. Flux spatter got old quicker than I thought and gas is worth every penny.

Can't decide between a plasma cutter or TIG now... Can't justify either so it really makes the decision hard.

[Piett]

It would be nice to maybe have something I could use with a small gas generator to make a truely portable setup.


I think you'll need a larger generator than you think. 110V*20A = 2200W, 2200W*3(3 is the multiplier that I recall for startup surge)= 6600W. 6600W isn't a big generator but is isn't dinky either. In the past I was involved in the rental of generator to run a Miller 210. While it had much higher wattage than we needed the rental ended up being 35kW diesel generator. It was a darn cool generator though.

[bamachem]

we have a cool little machine at work. it's a miller generator/welder. bad little (actually big) buzzbox. :D

[MTL_4runner]

My parents actually just upgraded the backup generator (they stepped up to a 30KW hardwired diesel setup!!!) at their house so it looks like I've got a 13HP 8500W Honda generator coming my way the next time I go down. That should be enough to run a decent welder and I know it has 220V on it, but I'm not sure how big the breaker is on that. I might go for a Lincoln SP-175 if that generator has enough juice to power it. I have compact fluorescent bulbs everywhere in my house and I heard that using a welder will destroy those in short order so I'm looking for a setup I can run just off the generator alone if possible.

[cootees]

Jamie

If you are looking at getting a welder get the biggest one you can afford, as you've probably heard before. I just bought a MM 251 wire (MIG and flux) and I'll never have to buy another welder. I have a smaller 135 too for small intricate stuff but for welding on the truck...go big. :D

:guitar:


With that in mind and before I get in over my head. I'm also looking for a welder to learn on. Budget is gonna be around the $600 (give or take $100) mark and I can run it on 220. Is there any model mig welder that you would suggest to learn on in this price range(used or new) that would be capable to penetrate well enough to do a sas?

[ElkaholicTRD]

https://weldingsupply.securesites.com/cgi-bin/browsecatalogs.pl
Check this place out just to get an idea. Honestly for that price you are not gonna get a machine for too thick of metal, or with a very high duty cycle. Did you decide what you want, MIG or Stick? (Sorry I dont use the word Arc since mig, stick, flux and tig are all arc welding :tongueout:LOL)

[bamachem]

give HOBART a hard look. they're very good, made by MILLER, but don't carry the miller pricetag.

[MTL_4runner]

give HOBART a hard look. they're very good, made by MILLER, but don't carry the miller pricetag.


I knew Hobart was a good brand but I didn't know they were actually made by Miller.