Why Wranglers get a bad rap?

[Skrillah]

Hey guys,

So...I know we are all very Toyota biased being that this is a Toyota forum, and of course most of us own one...but lets talk Jeeps.

I want to know why Wranglers get such a bad rap among the Toyota fans? I mean...my fiancee owns a Wrangler, a 5 spd at that (shes an amazing woman I know! :D) and I must say I've been impressed with its reliability and performance over the last 50k miles shes had it. It has needed a new radiator and exhaust manifold but thats it. Everything else is just routine maintenance, and its driven mostly city miles. It has 94k miles on a 2000 4cyl engine.

Now, I must admit, the engine and overall integrity of the vehicle are not nearly as refined as my Toyota. It has its quarks and rattles, and is noisy (engine wise) but never the less continues to impress me with its continued reliablity and performance. Off-road it goes just about anywhere in stock form, and the 4wd system works nicely. The short wheelbase is probably a big factor in this department as it can fit in tight places easily. Not to mention...these things are a breeze to work on compared to my 4runner, and a blast to drive.

I love my 4runner as its been extremely reliable and is truly a better built rig. However, the fun to drive factor, ease of modification, and ability to work on easily has continued to have me second guessing my 4runner. Obviously, exchanging my 4runner for a Wrangler is my decision and I'm not looking for an answer to that.

I'm asking for your professional experiences with Wranglers and your overall opinion. I'm guessing all of you have had a lot of experience in the off-road community thus have had your share of toying with Wranglers.

I couldn't find a thread where this has been covered in a way that hasn't been flamed up...so again...an honest, professional review of your thoughts is appreciated.

And just for fun...here is some pics of her Jeep. She actually does take it off road. We put Good year silent armor tires on it...an excellent A/T tire by the way. The one where shes laughing she spit some mud up and hit her in the forehead (although hard to see)...lol...shes a weekend warrior and a princess during the week...hell of a mix I know. :drool:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/klepore/IMG_0945.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/klepore/IMG_0942.jpg

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s133/klepore/IMG_0698.jpg

[slosurfer]

That's a good question:

I think one reason would be reliability (sounds like she has a good one though), even hardcore jeep fans will joke about the problems with reliability.

I think the other is that there is a general attitude that is associated with it. By no means am I saying this about all Wrangler owners, but there seems to be an attitude of superiority that goes with the Wrangler. This is usually from newbies to the offroad scene, they think that they have the best thing out there because they bought a jeep w/ big tires. This attitude can be found with all vehicles but it seems to stand out in the Wrangler, H2, and I have been noticeing it is happening with the FJ Cruiser as well. Normally it is from newbs who think they are the s&it with what they have been told is the best 4wd out there and haven't the slightest idea of what makes a good wheeler. Especially the fact that the driver is what makes it a great wheeler.

You can even see it in the rental market. People rent a jeep and think they are god and can go anywhere (same with the hummers and fj cruisers). The fact that they are rented everywhere and have people driving them like idiots doesn't help the stereotype either. It really is too bad that it is starting to happen with the FJ Cruisers as well. :(

Hopefully that made sense, I had one in Kauai for a week and took it wheeling all over. It was a blast to drive and did well. I would still choose a Toyota even if it isn't "Trail Rated". :laugh:

***Just wanted to reiterate that I don't think this about all Wrangler owners. Generally it is the ones who don't even wheel it or build it that have these attitudes. :D


Edit: I've been known to :drool: over a couple built 4door Rubicons. They were very nice!

[Skrillah]

Chris,

Good point, I would definitely agree with the attitude thing. Like you said, so much of it is the driver. As we all know...not only in 4wheeling but there are a lot of bad drivers in general. It seems now a days, people don't even know where the dipstick is. Ugh...thats a whole other thread though.

Reliablity like you said is also a huge factor I'm sure. I know that its been proven that the grand cherokees are pretty crappy with the rare occasion of a good one. The old cherokees and wranglers have seemed to hold up pretty well, especially the 4.0L...

[traben27]

Attitude, Attitude and Attitude. It's exactly as Chris was saying. It's those guys that drive around with their 4" body lifts, big tinfoil tube bumpers, and stuffed tires that give the Wranglers such a bad rap.

For example, this kid I went to high school with just got a TJ (which his parents bought for him) with the typical Smittybuilt (??) bumpers and some after market wheels. Now everytime I see him driving it around he act like he's "all that" because he's got mud on his 29" street tires. He even gave me some crap about my truck, saying he could out wheel me.

There are some really friendly drivers though, and a lot of them give just as much respect to a Toyota as to a fellow Jeeper. Those are the guys that I like to talk and wheel with. My other friend from school has a TJ on 35s, armored, and locked. I'll admit he can go lots of places that I couldn't without breaking some stuff. He's still cool about it though and respects what mine can do in the form its in now.

Anyway, I did almost buy a Cherokee before I bought my 4runner, but I'm sort of glad I didn't as my friend who has a 92 has been having so much trouble with his. Overall though, I don't think the Wranglers should be getting the bad rap, as their drivers are the ones who are more deserving.

[gilby4runner]

I owned a wrangler for 7 years. It was a love / hate relationship. There seemed to be something wrong with it constantly. Granted, i didnt treat it very nice at times. I had a lot of issues with the 5 speed. In 4cyl. jeeps the trans was a piece of junk. Working on it was much easier than most vehicles i have owned but the practicality of wasnt there. What annoys me the most are the idiots that think they are the stuff just because they own one.

[YotaFun]

My Friend has a 96 with the 4cyl, 5speed.
I like that jeep a lot, he got 130K mile out of it without any major issue.
The idiot of course didn't do an oil change for 30K (got it with 100K) but the engine was great till then.
I did his tune up for him after the water pump and head gasket was changed, as well as seafoam and cleaned that poor TB and he was like "Dude, its new again"

But like Chris said, Attitude is a big part, and its starting to show up in the FJ crowd like he said.

Heck, I was going to go with a Wrangler myself.
But I needed a little room and I needed something more safer then a Wrangler.

I am actually going to go Test a new Wrangler next month for a friend, and sort of look forward to it, he wants to get into wheeling but wants to get something new, I told him though, if he got a jeep and acted like a Douche that he can go find some other friends, he got the picture that it take a while and a lot of learning to have a great win and be a great driver :-)

just my .02

[kmcc78240]

Have you been watching Xtreme 4x4, with the Hemi swap. Oh so nice.

[gilby4runner]

watched a little of it yesterday.. seems like they are catching onto what many on this board have done for years. Build a DD / Trail rig.

[AxleIke]

I have no issue with Jeeps. I have issues with drivers, just like everyone else. Plenty of jackoff toyota drivers. We have a lot of them here in CO.

Just wanted to point out something though. "I've been happy with it, its got 94K and running good", and "ran great for 130k".

Thats likely the reason these things get a bad rap. If I buy a car, I expect it to run forever, with minor maintenance, unless I crash it. I would not consider 130K a good milemarker. Come back at 330k. If your jeep has original equipment and standard maintenence, and is at 330k, then I'm impressed. 130k? Should be BARELY broken in.

[YotaFun]

130k? Should be BARELY broken in.


Read my post, he didn't do normal maint from 100K on
For no oil change, hell, barely any oil being in it, going 30K is pretty well I think...

[AxleIke]

130k? Should be BARELY broken in.


Read my post, he didn't do normal maint from 100K on
For no oil change, hell, barely any oil being in it, going 30K is pretty well I think...


Ah. That is pretty good. I was more referencing the 94k in the OP's post, but good point, I missed the no oil part.

[Skrillah]

130k? Should be BARELY broken in.


Read my post, he didn't do normal maint from 100K on
For no oil change, hell, barely any oil being in it, going 30K is pretty well I think...


Ah. That is pretty good. I was more referencing the 94k in the OP's post, but good point, I missed the no oil part.


Yeah I agree, 94k on a Toyota is nothing but on a Jeep thats a lot. I guess its just the shear notion that I thought Jeeps were total crap and I suppose they are compared to Toyotas but they aren't as crappy as I originally thought. The 4.0Ls have a good reputation for getting big miles though...well maybe not 300k but close to 200k.

[paddlenbike]

The biggest issue with Jeeps is their drivetrain strength, or lack thereof. The rear Dana 35 and to a lesser extent the front Dana 30 rear their ugly heads when you significantly increase tire size or wheel it on moderate trails. A stock Wrangler has very little ground clearance, so a lift and larger tires are mandatory, then you start uncovering the issues with the drivetrain. There are plenty of aftermarket parts to fix these issues, but they cost money. We are very fortunate to own vehicles that require very little in the form of modifications to run moderate to advanced trails.

[traben27]

The rear Dana 35 and to a lesser extent the front Dana 30 rear their ugly heads when you significantly increase tire size or wheel it on moderate trails.


Very good point, my friend with 35s decided to just put a 44 under the rear instead of dealing with the 35...Solves the problem but $$$