Lightforce HID upgraded 35 watt HID to 55 watt HID

[oly884]

As most of you know, I got some Lightforce 240's converted to HID from here:
http://off-roadlights.com/xcart/product.php?productid=16182&cat=257&page=1

Well, unfortunately I got one of the ballast wet when cleaning the engine bay and fried it. I contacted Dick (the owner of off-roadlights.com) and he was more than helpful and offered to replace the ballast for free.

I also came across this: http://www.retro-solutions.com/55WD2SKIT.html

I decided it was time to upgrade the lights. Dick was offering to replace the bulbs himself, however, he constructed the lights to a great detail and made changing the bulbs to a 30 second operation. So anyways, I decided to take some pictures....


Camera settings:

Nikon D300
5 second shutter speed
f/8.0
ISO 200

Click on picture for larger image

Here's the 35 watt HID spot pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_35wspotCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/35wspotCustom.jpg)

55 watt HID spot pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_55wspotCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/55wspotCustom.jpg)

Both 35 and 55 watt spot beam side by side
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_35wand55wspotCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/35wand55wspotCustom.jpg)

35 watt HID wide pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_35wwideCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/35wwideCustom.jpg)

55 watt HID wide pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_55wwideCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/55wwideCustom.jpg)

35 and 55 watt HID wide pattern side by side
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_35wand55wwideCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/35wand55wwideCustom.jpg)

Both 55 watt HID spot pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_55wand55wspotCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/55wand55wspotCustom.jpg)

Both 55 watt HID wide pattern
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_55wand55wwideCustom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/55wand55wwideCustom.jpg)

Here's a picture of the 55 watt HID bulb with a shutter speed of 1/8000 of a second with an f/stop of 8.0 (for those of you who don't know cameras, that lets in VERY little light)
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/th_bulb4Custom.jpg (http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y86/oly884/bulb4Custom.jpg)

All I can say is that these lights are the brightest thing I've ever seen. (With the sun coming in a close second)

[slosurfer]

Nice! I plan on upgrading mine to a 50/55watt HID soon. :thumbup:

Are those shots with the yellow filter on?

[oly884]

You will not be disappointed. It takes insanely bright lights, and makes them.... speechless.

[slosurfer]

I was already planning on throwing a 50watt HID kit in my 240 and then I was going to upgrade my 35watt HID 170's as well, since one of my ballasts is a replacement one and puts out a slightly different color than the other one. :(

I'm surprised that spraying off your engine fried a ballast. Must have already been defective. :headscratch:

[oly884]

I was already planning on throwing a 50watt HID kit in my 240 and then I was going to upgrade my 35watt HID 170's as well, since one of my ballasts is a replacement one and puts out a slightly different color than the other one. :(

I'm surprised that spraying off your engine fried a ballast. Must have already been defective. :headscratch:


It got through the 'waterproof' power plug (from the battery) and jumped the prongs on the ballast. This time, I'm going to just use some tape to seal it really well. Not disappointed though, it 'forced' me to upgrade :laugh:

[oly884]

I was able to do some driving around last night and WOW! Standing still pictures are impressive, but use those when you are driving around it is incredible! Next I'll get some pictures of the lights with the filters put on.

[Nick]

For those of you who are upgrading to 55W, you're upgrading the ballasts as well as the bulbs, correct?

I sold my 170s to slosurfer a while ago who put them to much better use then I ever did...I never even got to hooking them up even as my relocation plans went awry. Anyway, I moved from the city and now do quite a bit of night-time/early morning driving, both interstate and back roads. Driving home and back ( 7 hour drive each way; I mostly drive at night ) I see a TON of deer and plenty of very fresh roadkill. I assume the semis do it and keep on going.

I'm looking to avoid any potential deer encounters so I'll pick up a set of these converted lightforces (they're cheaper then an ARB, ha!) , I think 170s should do the trick pretty well. Oly, I assume that excluding the fried ballast ( waterproof, ha! ) you're pretty thrilled with the lights, huh?

[slosurfer]

Hey Nick, how's it going? Thanks for the deal on the 170's, I love them. Yes you have to upgrade the ballasts to 55watt. In fact, I believe that most of the bulbs are the same between the 35 and 55 watt kits, it is the ballast that makes the difference in wattage and in color (at least till you get into the extreme colors). There are a few specific 55watt bulbs, but they are uber expensive. (at least this is what I was finding when I was researching it awhile ago). Someone who knows better, feel free to correct me if I am off on that.

You will not be disappointed with either 35watt or 55 watt 170's. Really the two converted 35watt 170's with the combo filters were easily enough light for what you are looking for. I just got kind of hooked on getting more light and got offered the cheap 240, so I had to take it :hillbill:. You will get plenty of forward light and for the deer, that important side to side light, all with very little strain on your charging system.

I don't think I've seen the 170's with the 55watt kit yet. If someone wants to give me a 55watt kit, I'll throw them in my 170's for a comparison. :thumbup:

[oly884]

Nick, 55 watt ballasts and bulbs is correct, I replaced both.

As for the fried ballast, I'll clear it up a bit.

The lights I got were the 240's with 35 watt bulb/ballast HIDs. Upon cleaning my engine bay, water entered the connection from the battery to the ballast on one of them, so when I fired up my lights, only one worked as the other ballast shorted out.

The ballast itself did not cause the problem, only the power connection to the ballast let a bit of water in which allowed a short to occur. My fault 100%.

So, when this happend, Dick (owner of off-roadlights.com) was more than happy to replace the 35 watt ballast at no cost due to the warranty. I was just about to ship it when I came across the retro solutions 55 watt HID kit. A bit of searching turned up that they make a great light kit and that it is well worth it (to which I completely agree).

So, I decided instead of getting a new ballast, that I would upgrade my 240's with 55 watt HID's. As for being thrilled, definitely. They are, with out a doubt, the brightest off road lights, let alone any light I've ever seen. I think my brother has a big 10 million candle power spot light that I'm hoping to compare it to so that people can get a real idea of how insanely bright these lights really are.

If you are interested, you might want to shoot Dick an email: rlclemen@comcast.net

He's a great guy and I highly recommend him.

[oly884]

There are a few specific 55watt bulbs, but they are uber expensive. (at least this is what I was finding when I was researching it awhile ago). Someone who knows better, feel free to correct me if I am off on that.


The retro solutions kit has 55 watt bulbs, and really, for $190 for bulbs and ballasts shipped (very fast shipping BTW) it is not a bad deal at all!

I too did find it hard to find info on 55 watt bulbs, however, they do exist!

[Nick]

Those were some instantaneous replies there!

@ Chris: Absolutely! Most worry-free transaction I've ever had...cept for that bit when USPS decided to take the second package with all the important stuff on a more scenic route ;) You've done an incredible amount of work to those lights; I saw your conversion thread and decided that I don't any anywhere near the amount of skill to do it, so I figured I'd be better picking up a ready-made pair. I guess Dick has a bit of time on his hands for this mod!

I currently run Hella 550 fogs, which do OK for side to side vision ( better then the stock beams) , which I agree is really important. The critters don't usually appear smack dab in the middle of the road, they're usually off to the side contemplating life or the end of such as they know it...so it's good to see them and slow down before they make their choice. One can never have enough light, except, ah, was it you that had the thread where the local law decided to drive halfway across town to see who was lighting up the river?!

You mentioned the (yellow) combo filters; are you still using those? I think I'll be picking up another set of the same ones.

@ Oly:

What K are the bulbs that came with the kit rated at? Just curious! Also, in order to avoid your experience, I'm either going to use some electrical tape or silicone to better seal up the battery connection.

I think I'll be sticking with whatever the stock conversion comes with; at this point I have to decide whether I want the 240s or the 170s more then anything, the price difference between them is relatively small, more of an issue on whether they'll fit on my front bumper or not! (I have holes drilled) I'm sure both lights will be fine for the task, though - I realize they're illegal on public roads, but it's so flipping dark at night, and I'd turn them (and my high beams, although with these, I probably won't need highs anymore) off whenever I see another vehicle approaching from the other side.

I second the notion that Dick is a great guy, I've actually dealt with him in the past (customer-service wise) and he was prompt and very helpful.

They're pricey but I think the lights are a good investment, and being lightforce brand, they'll probably last forever.

[oly884]

I got the 4300K bulbs/ballasts. I like the color more than 5000K or higher. I'm going to seal my connections better as well when I get home tonight.

I too use these on the back roads at night. While yes, it might be considered illegal, they always get turned off when I see headlights coming around the corner.

[slosurfer]

Oly, just curious how you know that those are 55watt bulbs? I had already found those retro-solutions kits long ago and I had a hard time finding out if they were true 55 watt bulbs for all their kits.

Edit: I now seem to remember that the only true 50watt HID bulbs made were of the DS2 variety but the bulbs themselves were only made by one company and were very expensive. This was a few months ago (maybe longer, I'd have to look at my thread), and I had tried to become a member at HIDplanet but my registration wasn't going through. :shake: Anyways, just wodering how you confirmed that the bulbs are 55watt?

One reason I'm also skeptical is because of the "booster" type ballasts that are 35watt and then can boost to 50watt with a switch and they just have a 35watt bulb in them. :headscratch:

Just wondering because I may just try to find some 55watt HID ballasts to plug into mine till I can afford another kit.

[oly884]

Oly, just curious how you know that those are 55watt bulbs? I had already found those retro-solutions kits long ago and I had a hard time finding out if they were true 55 watt bulbs for all their kits.


Well, I guess I can take that back a bit.

I talked with the owner, Todd Strong. Here's the email:



Yes they have wattage rating, most bulbs are a standard 35w rating as all OEM is 35w HID. We carry 55w bulbs as well, although you don't want to use those on a standard ballast, for any improvement and proper operation they need 50w or 55w ballasts.

Todd Strong - Retro-Solutions, LLC

We strive very hard for 100% customer satisfaction before, during,and after sale. As much as we would like to know each customer's wants and needs personally we find it difficult to keep up with all of you! Please be kind and attach previous text for reference in email strings so that we better assist you.


David T. Olson wrote:
Quick question. D2S bulbs, do they have a wattage rating? I see some things saying yes they do, others saying no it's just the ballast. Thanks!

So, I'm really going off of his word on the matter. Philips did make a 50 watt bulb the DL50, but they don't make them anymore, so at least bulbs are/were made. I honestly don't know exactly what the criteria is for the wattage rating on a xenon arc discharge bulb is. However, Todd seems to have quite a bit of credibility.

It comes down to Todd's word in the end. I believe him, but even if they are only 35 watt bulbs, the light output is brighter.

[slosurfer]

Oly, thanks, that does help some. :thumbup: Seems legit, but it seems the HID world is full of half truths, exagerations, tricky marketing, and some outright lies. NOt saying that he's not telling the truth, just that it's hard to tell who is.

The DL50, that's the one that I couldn't think of.

I think I'll send an email to Steve (? I think that's his name) at Xenon Depot with some questions. I've been meaning to get ahold of him anyways.

Either way, you showed that there is a great improvement and that is what I'm after as long as it works and holds up.

Edit: From my post above, just in case it was missed.

One reason I'm also skeptical is because of the "booster" type ballasts that are 35watt and then can boost to 50watt with a switch and they just have a 35watt bulb in them. :headscratch:

[oly884]

Oly, thanks, that does help some. :thumbup: Seems legit, but it seems the HID world is full of half truths, exagerations, tricky marketing, and some outright lies. NOt saying that he's not telling the truth, just that it's hard to tell who is.

The DL50, that's the one that I couldn't think of.

I think I'll send an email to Steve (? I think that's his name) at Xenon Depot with some questions. I've been meaning to get ahold of him anyways.

Either way, you showed that there is a great improvement and that is what I'm after as long as it works and holds up.

Edit: From my post above, just in case it was missed.

One reason I'm also skeptical is because of the "booster" type ballasts that are 35watt and then can boost to 50watt with a switch and they just have a 35watt bulb in them. :headscratch:




Correct, there are those ballasts that do that. Retro has a ballast that does just that, 35-50 watts, not sure on the details or the bulb though.

The ballasts that came with the kit were nice looking, didn't peek inside, but at least they didn't look like crap!

[slosurfer]

When you get a chance, could you take a pic of one of the ballast? You've got me all wired to finally get mine done. Now if only work would start picking up. :hillbill:

Yeh, probably better to not open it up if you want it to stay waterproof. :laugh:



Nick, I generally use the clear combo filters and carry the yellows in the rig. Last surf n turf, it got really foggy one night and the only people who could use their aux lights were those with yellow filters on there lightforces. That was pre HID and they worked great in combo with my low beams. If I were to buy just one filter, it would be the yellow combo filter. The clear combos are nice to have though also.

If you get the 240's you may have to rig up your own light bar on your bumper to get them spaced out enough from your grill. Remember how you had to turn the bottom mount backwards to mount the 170's on your stock bumper? I don't think the 240's come with that low mount and have a longer arm, so you may run into that problem. If you are going to order them from Dick, maybe you can have him put the 240 lens on a 170arm/mount. The only difference between the 240 and 170 mount is the length of the arm. My 240 lens is on a 170 arm/mount for height issues and it works since it hangs in front of the bumper. Hopefully that somewhat understandable. :D

[oly884]

When you get a chance, could you take a pic of one of the ballast? You've got me all wired to finally get mine done. Now if only work would start picking up. :hillbill:


You got it! Retro has a pic: http://www.retro-solutions.com/DIGITALballast_files/DIGITALballast.jpg but it's a bit small. I'll get a better pic tonight for you.

[Nick]

If you get the 240's you may have to rig up your own light bar on your bumper to get them spaced out enough from your grill. Remember how you had to turn the bottom mount backwards to mount the 170's on your stock bumper? I don't think the 240's come with that low mount and have a longer arm, so you may run into that problem. If you are going to order them from Dick, maybe you can have him put the 240 lens on a 170arm/mount. The only difference between the 240 and 170 mount is the length of the arm. My 240 lens is on a 170 arm/mount for height issues and it works since it hangs in front of the bumper. Hopefully that somewhat understandable. :D


Thanks for the tip on the combo filters; I never used either, so I wasn't quite sure. I do know about the yellow though - excellent with fog! I do think the yellow filter diffuses (dims) the light a little, but given that the LF lights will be HIDs, I think it'll be way brighter then the halogens, yellow combos or not. I think I can only afford one set, and the yellows are what I'll be going with! Saved me some trouble there, thanks :)

As for the mount idea, yeah! I do get it actually, I did flip the mounts backwards so that the lights stuck out enough to fit. I didn't think of swapping out the 240 arm/mount for a 170, but that's really a great idea. I'm pretty sure Dick would be up for it. One thing though, your LF lights are mounted onto your lightbar, yeah? I can't really imagine how it would fit onto the stock bumper, or...would that be a non-issue if the 170s with the mount fit perfect...then the 240s using the same arm would fit too? ahhh, I've got to get some measurements off the site and see what I come up with. :drool:

[slosurfer]

One thing though, your LF lights are mounted onto your lightbar, yeah? I can't really imagine how it would fit onto the stock bumper, or...would that be a non-issue if the 170s with the mount fit perfect...then the 240s using the same arm would fit too? ahhh, I've got to get some measurements off the site and see what I come up with. :drool:


Nick, I originally had the 170's mounted on my stock bumper so you shouldn't have a problem with the 240's. The rear of them would be in the same spot and since they stick out slightly past the bumper, the height of the arm isn't an issue. The lense clears the bumper. I'll see if I can find some pics to illustrate and pm them to you.


Oly, I was looking around on retrosolutions website and found that they do just sell the 55watt ballasts.
http://www.retro-solutions.com/55WBAL.html

I found this interesting:

Quote from that link:
These work with any OEM or aftermarket 35 watt, 50 watt, and 55 watt bulbs.

So it appears that I can just get myself some ballasts and use my existing 35watt bulbs. Also, after searching last night, it seems that possibly the 35watt bulbs may not last quite as long with the 55watt ballasts, but that it wouldn't be shortened by much. This shouldn't make much of a difference since they are aux. lights and are not ran all the time. This may be my next purchase. :D

[oly884]

So, the real question is, do they provide actual 55 watt bulbs?

[slosurfer]

Retro's 55watt D2R/S Bulb (http://www.retro-solutions.com/55WD2SBULB.html)

Quote from above link:
For use with 50w, 55w, and adjustable output ballasts only. Use with 35w ballasts will result in damage to bulbs.

Retro's 55watt Conversion Bulbs (H1, H3, etc...) (http://www.retro-solutions.com/55WBULB.html)

Quote from above link:
Not for use with 35w ballast or damage will occur. For use with 50w, 55w or adjustable output ballasts only!

Retro's Adjustable 35watt-55watt HID kit (http://www.retro-solutions.com/ADJD2SKIT.html)

Quote from above link:
Adjustable ballasts are recommended for use on our 55 watt bulbs or Philips DL50 bulbs only. Although we have tested our adjustable ballasts to work on OEM and aftermarket 35 watt bulbs without incident, the user assumes all risks from use with 35 watt bulbs.

Kind of confusing, on one hand they say that their 55watt bulbs will not work with a 35watt ballast, but will work on 35watts as long as it is coming from an adjustable ballast. :headscratch: Then they say a 35watt bulb will work with adjustable ballast, but throw in a little disclaimer. The question, are their disclaimers because they think it won't work, or is it so that you will buy their more expensive bulbs? :headscratch:

I'm willing to bet that if any of them are true 50watt (not 55watt), your best bet would be their D2R/S bulbs like you purchased. It seems that they have a good rep as far as customer service and their kits working, so that's good. Either way, I think you got a good deal and I can't wait to upgrade mine to 55watt. :D

[oly884]

Bingo, either way, it seems to be a pretty solid product and I'm very happy with the increased light output.

[slosurfer]

Bingo, either way, it seems to be a pretty solid product and I'm very happy with the increased light output.


:thumbup: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure it was known that I wasn't putting down the retro kits. Just using the info on their site, since I've had a hard time finding that info anywhere, and the HID world is so confusing.

On another note, are your 240s mounted on your stock bumper?
Edit: nevermind, I just read your sig.

[oly884]

Bingo, either way, it seems to be a pretty solid product and I'm very happy with the increased light output.


:thumbup: Yeah, I just wanted to make sure it was known that I wasn't putting down the retro kits. Just using the info on their site, since I've had a hard time finding that info anywhere, and the HID world is so confusing.

On another note, are your 240s mounted on your stock bumper?
Edit: nevermind, I just read your sig.


Haha, yup, definitely mounted on my TJM. I don't think the 240's would really fit on a stock bumper! Heck, they barely fit on the TJM!

No worries on the retro kit, I was skeptical too, but at least I know, as well as provided you and anyone else, proof that their '55 watt HID' kit is much brighter than the 35 watt HID, regardless of how they go about it. Now we'll see how the bulb life is...

[BruceTS]

what's cool is they sell a short bulb H3 kit.... Now I'm thinking about doing my fog lights.......

[oly884]

Not a bad thought at all. With prices as cheap as they are now-a-days, it doesn't hurt!