Rear axle seal finally went bad...

[mastacox]

Well, went off-roading like a maniac on Sunday. Did some hill climbing, and some jumping and fast stuff to test the fit of the new tires (I'll need some trimming before I go on my trip at the end of August) and the rear-left axle seal finally gave up the ghost. I kind of expected it was on its way out for a little bit now, no more putting it off I guess. :shake:

Looks like I'll need to re-seal the 3rd member too, it's leaking just a little from the bottom of the diff now. All in a day's work :drink: I'm thinking about dropping the whole rear axle while I'm at it, cleaning up the rust from its previous life in NC, and paint it a nice Rustoleum flat black.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/mastacox/Bad%20Axle%20Seal/FenderWell1.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/mastacox/Bad%20Axle%20Seal/FenderWell2.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/mastacox/Bad%20Axle%20Seal/FenderWell3.jpg

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l70/mastacox/Bad%20Axle%20Seal/DiffSeal1.jpg

[Lee]

gloss black, while a little silly looking, actually seals.. so if you are gonna repaint, id do gloss black. if you dont like the gloss, just paint over the gloss with flat after it dries :)

[mastacox]

gloss black, while a little silly looking, actually seals.. so if you are gonna repaint, id do gloss black. if you dont like the gloss, just paint over the gloss with flat after it dries :)


Interesting, I'll keep that in mind. :thumbup:

[4x4mike]

If you're going to pull the third member I'd suggest doing the other side axle seal as well. I had one go out and I replaced it along with the pads as they were contaminated with gear oil. 2 weeks later the other side went out. Twice draining diff fluid and cleaning brakes. While you're under there pull the diff breather and soak it in simple green or the like. I sprayed mine clean with brake cleaner afterwards to make sure it was working well. 4runners.org has a good write up with helpful pictures.I bought the seal installer tool and it worked out pretty well.

I've driven and wheeled on mine now a bit and they appear to be holding well.

[mastacox]

If you're going to pull the third member I'd suggest doing the other side axle seal as well. I had one go out and I replaced it along with the pads as they were contaminated with gear oil. 2 weeks later the other side went out. Twice draining diff fluid and cleaning brakes. While you're under there pull the diff breather and soak it in simple green or the like. I sprayed mine clean with brake cleaner afterwards to make sure it was working well. 4runners.org has a good write up with helpful pictures.I bought the seal installer tool and it worked out pretty well.

I've driven and wheeled on mine now a bit and they appear to be holding well.


Thanks for the tips. I was planning on replacing both sides since it isn't much more work and like you said chances are the other side will go out at the worst possible time.

[4x4mike]

When I did mine I figured I'd leave it because it was most likely factory and why fix it if it aint broke, doh. Because you'll have everything apart it'll be easy and maybe add 10 minutes to your project.

[mastacox]

So, I've got the axle apart right now, and I'm having a tough time getting the old seals out... Any tips before I go wild trying to pry the damn things out of there?

... and now that I've got everything apart I'm thinking my driver-side bearing is bad or at least in the process of going bad. When I spin the brake drums around the axle shaft the bearing is a little noisy and feels a bit "rough" :( It also seems to have a lot more angular play than the other bearing. So how can I tell how much "play" is acceptable? When the bearings are brand-new are they tight in all directions, or can you move the brake drum slightly when the axle shaft is sitting vertically?

Since it's already apart I'd better take the shafts to a shop and get new bearings pressed on. Add more money to the list of crap I have to buy :shake:

[Seanz0rz]

haah i had the same problems. for the seal, just pry her out. try not to gouge anything though, esp. those machined surfaces. to get the new one in youre going to have to hit the crap out of it with a seal driver.

as for the bearing, are you sure its the bearing and not the brake contacting the brake drum?

i would go ahead and get the bearings replaced. i know ill have my axle apart again soon to regear, and ill do them then.

[habanero]

They were hard for me too. Was careful with where it goes but didn't worry too much about what the old seal itself looked like when it was done, not like I'd be reusing the darned thing.

[Seanz0rz]

yea i ended up prying against the cast surface on the inside of the axle, took alot of work to get out...

[Cheese]

Investing in a cheap set of seal pullers assures this happens right. I have never had a rear seal take more than 3 pops on the puller to get it out, should be no worries. Using the right tool means no other issues when done right.

[habanero]

Guess it were the right tool, wrong hands- or not enough experience for me.....I couldn't get it with either of my pullers. :(

[mastacox]

Investing in a cheap set of seal pullers assures this happens right. I have never had a rear seal take more than 3 pops on the puller to get it out, should be no worries. Using the right tool means no other issues when done right.


You're right, think I'll stop by Autozone or Pep-Boys and see what they have. Checker here in Santa Fe didn't have a seal puller, but I did get a seal installation kit for putting the new ones in.

[4x4mike]

I have the Lisle sharp hook puller. It punches a nice hole in the metal seal band that allows you to lean into it. Basically put some weight on it and it'll ovalize the seal and it'll come out once it looses it's shape. I used a similar tactic on the output shaft seal on my Chevy. When I got it out it didn't even look like a seal.

[04 Rocko Taco]

just FYI....

an empty campbells soup can is EXACTLY the right size to be a seal press when doing rear axle seals. :)

[4x4mike]

Good to know. I got the HF kit but the plates are plastic. They sell the US General one that has metal plates but they were out when I got mine. I suppose I could eat a can of soup and use the can as a re-enforcement.

[04 Rocko Taco]

:)

[mastacox]

So, the guy at the shop I took the shafts and bearings to said he'll need to order a few more parts that need to be replaced when the bearing gets pressed out. There a few spacers between the bearing and some components, and the ABS sensor ring needs to be replaced since they are "single use items." There is also an inner seal behind the bearing that should be replaced when it is.

Basically, when you're replacing the bearings on your shafts they are not the only parts you'll need; so look closely at the FSM before thinking you're ready to go and heading for the shop. Fortunately this shop can get the parts next-day and have the shafts ready for me hopefully tomorrow.

Still haven't found a damn seal puller yet, I've been to Napa, AutoZone, Checker, etc. Might have to just carefully do it with a screwdriver and some pliers...

[4x4mike]

Have you read Bob's write up?
http://4runners.org/writeups/rearseal/index.htm

Without the bearing replacement it's easy. I actually only used a handful of tools.
Got to HF or sears and ask for a seal puller. I have this one
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947645000P
but you can get one of these as well
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=91352

I keep meaning to email Bob about his write up. It's titled OUTER seal replacement when in fact it's the inner seal. The outer one is the one on the outer end of the axle shaft near the bearing (like you said). I didn't realize the ABS ring was a single use part. Do you have an idea on price?

[mastacox]

Have you read Bob's write up?
http://4runners.org/writeups/rearseal/index.htm


Yup, it's a good writeup. Replacing the seal is relatively easy; finding my bearing was bad too was what has made this whole endeavor more of an adventure since I need this thing driving by Thursday afternoon.



Without the bearing replacement it's easy. I actually only used a handful of tools.
Got to HF or sears and ask for a seal puller. I have this one
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00947645000P


Good call on going to Sears. Think I'll go look after work.



I keep meaning to email Bob about his write up. It's titled OUTER seal replacement when in fact it's the inner seal. The outer one is the one on the outer end of the axle shaft near the bearing (like you said).


Yup, the inner seal is apparently far easier to replace than the "outer" seal since the outer one is pressed under the bearing, some spacers, and the ABS ring.



I didn't realize the ABS ring was a single use part. Do you have an idea on price?


I was a bit surprised by this also, I need to confirm it because I'm worried it may be an expensive part... I'll have a price in a little bit hopefully.

[mastacox]

Damn, it looks like its going to be pretty expensive. According to the shop:

- The pressed-on spacers are about $20 ea and there are two per axle (one between the bearing and the ABS sensor, one after the ABS sensor).

- The ABS sensors are about $60 each (1 per side of course)

So that's $200 more right there, plus the seals which are cheap and some press time it will be around $300 :(

[habanero]

Ack! Guess I got lucky? Bought the parts through the dealership I've finagled an account through for user rather than list, asked if they do the work in house (they don't), used the place they use but for $75 bucks labor rather than the $150 labor it would have been had the dealership driven it over. Cheapskate? Yes!


Seems you're gonna have to do some serious eyelash batting!

[mastacox]

So I'm officially sick of spending money on my 4Runner now. The parts plus getting all of the new stuff pressed on to the shafts was $394. Add the price of the bearings ($65 ea.) and the inner seals, it's basically cost about $550 to get all of the outer axle new-ified.

All of this crap had better last another 130k miles :shake: I can look at it from the standpoint of I haven't done any other major work except get the supercharger rebuilt in 40k miles since I bought the rig, but it still stings a little, considering I was just planning on replacing the inner seals for $12...

[4runnerchevy]

Sell it and buy a jeep.

[mastacox]

Sell it and buy a jeep.


No, if this was a jeep I would have had to buy a whole new axle, transmission, transfer case, and engine. :flipoff:

[4x4mike]

I guess it was good that you saved all that money on the SC rebuild.

[Wingnut]

Did you take it to a dealer or independent shop? I ask because there is a 2mm tolerence to the inside retention collar location (the $20 part). That collar is what rides on the axle seal you're replacing. If the collar is pressed to a distance inside or outside of that dimension, you are guaranteed a leak again. I found out the hard way. The FSM clearly states what this dimension is, they measure from the hub face. Hopefully they took very precise measurements as to where everything was before pressing the parts off.

[mastacox]

Did you take it to a dealer or independent shop? I ask because there is a 2mm tolerence to the inside retention collar location (the $20 part). That collar is what rides on the axle seal you're replacing. If the collar is pressed to a distance inside or outside of that dimension, you are guaranteed a leak again. I found out the hard way. The FSM clearly states what this dimension is, they measure from the hub face. Hopefully they took very precise measurements as to where everything was before pressing the parts off.



It was an independent shop, the guy there had done several bearing replacements for 3rd gen 4Runners and seemed to know what he was talking about... I just put the axle back together last night, so I guess we'll know if it was done incorrectly in a few months :headscratch:

Taking the old inner seals out was pretty tough, even with the seal puller; putting the new ones in was a snap though. I also took the 3rd member out and re-sealed it since it was leaking very slightly at the flange, so the axle should be good for another hundred thousand miles now. Cleaning up after the gasket on the third member was a huge PITA because it was literally cooked onto the metal. I spent an hour with a knife and Dremel to get all the crap off. Re-sealed it with Permatex Black RTV, I much prefer that option to the paper gasket.