rear axle questions

[Seanz0rz]

so today i set about doing the outer axle seals for the rear axle, both were leaking, one quite bad.

i ordered the wrong seals from toyota. they are axle seals but definitely not the ones i need.

first question: anyone know the napa or toyota part numbers for the seal? ill be leaving in the next 30 mins or so, hopefully someone can give that to me before i leave.

second. my axle shaft and drum are sitting upright on the ground. there is very noticeable play between the shaft and the backing plate. is this normal? or do i need new bearings? the play is not in and out, but back and forth.

hopefully you guys can help me out. i also might have a few other questions, but that does it for now. thank you!

[corax]

kinda like a wobble type play? not linear, like you are pushing the tire in toward the diff? A little bit of play is to be expected since the outer isn't a double taper bearing like the front. If in doubt, it would be better to replace it now - a bad bearing could also explain why the seal went bad . . . if the bearing is allowing the axle shaft to move radially, the seal can't do its job and will get damaged. Is there more play on the side that was leaking worse? that could also point to bearings damaging the seal

[Seanz0rz]

the play is not like pulling the tire in and out (away from and towards the vehicle) but more of a wobble type.

[corax]

push on the bearing (longitudinal and radial to the axle shaft) and feel for any "roughness" while turning it -- it's kinda hard to say how much is normal since that bearing would never get any radial "wobble" action with the inner shaft supported by the diff (not designed to be tight that way). if you can get a small pen light to shine the right way, you can also try to take a look at the inner/outer races for any marks

the links below have pics or what you might try to look for
Bearing wear and it's causes (http://www.vibanalysis.co.uk/technical/wear/wear.html)
Bearing failure and their causes (http://www.vibanalysis.co.uk/technical/contents.html#The types of damage may be classified as follows:)


did you hear any extra rear end noises coming down the twisties from Big Bear or highway driving lately?

[Seanz0rz]

i have so many squeaks, rattles, and hums i would never know.

thanks for the info. ill look into it. hopefully bruce will post in here, he seems pretty good with knowing stuff like this. as for the seal going bad, im pretty sure when i reassembled the axle from the elocker swap i ruined them, and that with having a plugged diff breather, finally caused them to start spewing.

[4x4mike]

The INNER seal part number is 90310-50006. This is the seal that Bob is replacing here (http://4runners.org/writeups/rearseal/index.htm)
You'd think it would be the outer seal but the outer seal is sandwiched between a pressed on bearing and, in my case, an ABS spur. I did not replace the OUTER seal as I do not have a press nor did I want to deal with it. I talked to the Toyota tech when I got the seal and he said the INNER seal replacement most likely will fix my problem. It did but I had to replace the INNER seal on the other side as well, 2 weeks later. My dealer has the seal on the shelf. Retail is $8.56. I just did this twice on my 4runner and helped a co worker work through his as well.
As far as your play, I had zero play in all directions. I checked because the tech told me to. My breather was a little mucked up so that's what I think did my seals in.

[Seanz0rz]

yea i figured that out when i went to napa today. i now have the correct seal for the job im doing.

bottom line on the bearings, i dont have the time or money to do them tomorrow. i would have to take them to my mechanic, and hes booked up solid till next week. i dont trust any other shop here(bad experiences). i think i will wait until i go to the aftermarket heavy duty shafts to replace the bearings (sometime this winter when i have more money.)

[4x4mike]

HD shafts? Concerned on breaking what you have? I know it can happen to anyone, with any setup any time but I thought that with reasonable tire size stock axles are adequate.

[Seanz0rz]

yea ive just come across some people breaking them at the wheel, causing the tire to fall off. not something i want to happen to me.

update, finally got the 3rd member out, cleaned, resealed, and re torqued. freezing the axle seals right now so i can get them in easier. plan on getting the axles back in soon.

on to my play issues, i would say its probably less than half a degree of play.

[Seanz0rz]

any suggestions for getting the seals in straight? tried freezing them but no luck.

[corax]

probably not really an option, but if could make it out to Valencia, I have a seal driver kit you can borrow. Harbor Freight sells one which should work for you and not cost much at all.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/95800-95899/95853.gif
http://search.harborfreight.com/cpisearch/web/search.do?keyword=seal+driver

[Seanz0rz]

oh i have the seal drivers, i just cant get the fricken things in straight and i dont want to deform them. should i just go for it?

im thinking of just throwing it in the back of my dads truck and having it done by my mechanic

[corax]

do they bottom out against a lip inside the axle tube? if so, just go for it with little taps at a time. if the seal starts to go sideways, just knock it straight on the high side. Don't forget to fill the seal lip with grease (might also want to fill the back side also to keep the little spring from popping out)

[Seanz0rz]

yea i greased her up and still having a hard time getting it in with the driver, i think tomorrow morning ill go at it more my style, a very flat, small block and drive it in little at a time, working around the seal.

in the mean time i am going to go reinstall the axle housing in the vehicle, make it a little easier to handle tomorrow morning. its hard tapping seals in when its on jackstands. hopefully the ultra copper RTV works on the 3rd member this time!

[corax]

hopefully the ultra copper RTV works on the 3rd member this time!


FWIW I've never had any problems with plain old black RTV on the third member, axles don't get that hot. for hot items I use red RTV - I've used red instead of gaskets for exhaust flanges with no problem what-so-ever

[04 Rocko Taco]

hopefully the ultra copper RTV works on the 3rd member this time!


FWIW I've never had any problems with plain old black RTV on the third member, axles don't get that hot. for hot items I use red RTV - I've used red instead of gaskets for exhaust flanges with no problem what-so-ever


I also use black RTV on my 3rds. No issues or leaks. *knock on wood*

[Seanz0rz]

i had grey on there and im not sure if i just didnt use enough or what, but hey, i hate doing it and hopefully this will be the last time.

[4runnerchevy]

I have used black, orange, and the blue (sensor safe) that comes with most master install kits. Never had a problem with any.