high output alternator for 5vz-fe?

[Seanz0rz]

so its time to upgrade from the stock alt in my 4runner. between the offroad lights, carPC, and banging stereo system, im pulling wayyy more than the little stock one can handle. and i will soon be adding a winch.

ive found this place: http://www.mralternator.com/alternators/toyota.html

but they completely lack any information about their products. any one have any experience?

theres also these guys: http://www.mean-green.com/products/alternator.html

here are the ones for the 4runner (http://www.thepartsbin.com/catalog/?N=9176+1314&Vi=1725%2011779%204294967268&mk=Toyota&md=4Runner&y=1998&Nr=OR(AND(make:Toyota,model:4Runner,year:1998),AND (universal:1)))

i was just hoping that someone has some experience in this area, and can direct me towards a quality product. im afraid that when i go to add more driving/fog lights and rock lights, im going to start killing the alt.

[CJM]

Mean green dude, buy it and dont look back.

[4x4mike]

When I had the Chevy I was always reading about people getting the high outputs and Mean Green's. For the most part they're good but they do die and sooner than a stock unit. The you've got an expensive paperweight. I think there is a guy in Auburn, CA that rewinds to your spec and then tests them. I've heard bad things about his shipping though. One th Chevy's guys just run dual batteries under the hood or the get the bracket from a diesel to run 2 large box alternators, I think they put out 180 amps each. I would suggest specing your lights accordingly. Maybe HID's and highout put LED's. In the end you maybe money ahead.

[CJM]

I hadnt heard any issues with the mean greens Mike, guess they arent all that great.

What I think you can also do is try and find an automotive electric shop, they will rebuild to your spec.

[Seanz0rz]

thanks on the advise. theres an auto electric place in town here, might give them a call and see what they can do for me, if anything.

i dont really want to shell out 400 dollars on an alternator. thats quite a bit of money...

[4runnerchevy]

If you go aftermarket or rewind then expect a somewhat shorter lifespan. The housing is somewhat a limiting factor. Heat is the worst enemy, and more power in a small package, means heat. Remember, you still got to fit the bridge and regulator in there. I say make a different bracket and go with a bigger high amp unit.

[YotaFun]

How much more amperage you looking for sean?

You know the 99+ put out 10 more amps the the 98-

It seems to be enough now and with a dual battery setup should hold well.

I mean I think the aftermarket is limited for us because people usually run daul bats, but that's just an observation.

[corax]

do you know what the stock output is? I'm not sure if it would work on your ride, but for the 22re a late model MR2 turbo alternator puts out 120A and bolts right in (same housing as my 7M, so there might be a bit of interchange).

[Seanz0rz]

stock is something like 70A at idle. woefully inadequate. its like a big muscly guy with 3".

[CJM]

I wonder what we could fit if we got a bigger unit. The belt iirc is separate so thats not a big deal either. Just have to make a bracket, nothing hard there if you got a small mapp gas or propane torch, a vise, possibly welder.. I do wonder if you could modify the stock bracket somehow as well.

Dont have my truck to look at it right now..argh..

[Seanz0rz]

thats what im wondering. or adding a second alt just for accessories.

[CJM]

I wonder if its possible to swap a tundra V8 alt, I would assume they deliver more power due to the larger engine.

I think adding a second battery would be a better idea than a second alt sean, that would be excessive lol..

Right now on my T100 im running 3 100w KC lights and some cheapo back ups. I can have the radio, stock lights with highbeams and all lights on and the little ampmeter on the dash barely budges. Joke is tho, if you have the headlights on and flick both window switches it moves..haha..alot.

[YotaFun]

See Marc, you are lucky cause you have a lot more room in that T100 engine bay then we do in our 3rd gen 4Runners.

And last time I checked, there wasn't much room by where the stock al is for us to be changing brackets to install something larger.

[CJM]

Probably Avy, I would assume I could fit a dual battery setup and or a large GM alternator if I wanted too.

[4x4mike]

I wonder what we could fit if we got a bigger unit.

:D

[04 Rocko Taco]

I know there is a GM alternator (cant remember the model) that puts out I think 140 amps, and is a direct bolt in for the Taco's with the 3.4, I would assume the same for the runners...... Sean, you have a PM regarding the info on this GM alt...

[4x4mike]

You could figure out how to get one of these under the hood.
http://www.offroad-tech.com/tech/gmbigalt/

Before the 4runner I was tossing around this idea.

[Cebby]

I had a Mr. Alt on my 4Runner. Worked great! Prices sure have gone up if they are $400 though. I got mine for $240ish PC'd yellow.

[4runnerchevy]

I know my alternator does 100 amps and is a stock unit. My alternator cost $65 off the shelf at NAPA, at my price. There are plenty of GM high amp alternators out there. If you can mod the bracket and get the pully right then your set. Wiring a three wire or 1 wire into a Toy is not a big deal.

[Seanz0rz]

I had a Mr. Alt on my 4Runner. Worked great! Prices sure have gone up if they are $400 though. I got mine for $240ish PC'd yellow.


the mr alts are not 400, thats the mean greens. the mr alts are about 250.

[CJM]

I wonder what we could fit if we got a bigger unit.

:D


You sir have a dirty mind lol..

[4x4mike]

I wonder what we could fit if we got a bigger unit.

:D


You sir have a dirty mind lol..


You started it.

[RunnerUp]

do you know what the stock output is? I'm not sure if it would work on your ride, but for the 22re a late model MR2 turbo alternator puts out 120A and bolts right in (same housing as my 7M, so there might be a bit of interchange).


i actually am currently running an MR2 spyder alt. it is actually rated to 130A and practically bolts right up (gotta shave a tad bit off the top part where it bolts in, its just a hair too wide (or get a BFH), ill search for my write up now

[RunnerUp]

here it is... not much of a writeup, but proves you can do it.

http://www.yotatech.com/f2/need-new-h-o-alt-suggestions-106544/

[Seanz0rz]

notice im post #2. never followed up on the thread though. thanks for the link.

[RunnerUp]

yeah i did notice that, and its okay, i forgot to finish the thread... oh well

[CJM]

Hmm, that might be the ticket RunnerUp. Which wires go where tho?

Does anyone know a surefire way to check which alt you have?

[Seanz0rz]

there must be a casting number.

im finding these spyder alts only put out 80-90 amps... what gives?

[RunnerUp]

you gotta get the one with the electric power steering from a 91

[RunnerUp]

and as far as what wires go where, i dont remember, ill have to check tomorrow

[Seanz0rz]

ohhh i was looking at the 2000+ spiders.

[CJM]

Please check, im highly interested in doing this. I do wonder if my T100 has a higher outpit, b/c running all my 100w lights, my backups, my stereo and other stuff it doesnt drop on the dash.

[Seanz0rz]

yea im not sure if mine dips, i just have an idiot light. im just concerned that as i add accessories in addition to the stereo, lights, computer, im going to start having problems

[corax]

you can buy a simple volt meter that plugs into the cigarette light to keep an eye on things - you don't smoke anyway. from the cigarette lighter will also be a bit more accurate as far as what is actually getting to your accessories, the battery will be the highest reading you get but voltage drops through connectors and wire length

cigar lighter LCD voltmeter (http://www.amazon.com/Vector-VEC008-Digital-Voltmeter-Volt/dp/B0002ISEQW)
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41FTzBuAz2L._SL500_AA280_.jpg

[CJM]

Well winch and super high power lights, and kickin systems will do it for sure. All I got are 3 100w KCs, 55w back ups, and a decent stereo with speakers.

FYI: Its very important to run the proper battery. I seen to many toyotas with V6's using a 26 or 35 group battery which only has about 600 cold cranking amps. V6 24/34 series with about 750 cold cranking amps. If you can figure out a way to fit a 65 series with 800 CCA your doing good too.

[97kurt]

Here is a little info on the GM alternator. EricB over on pirate got it working. But I should note that he is NOT using this alternator anymore because it would not fit with his york OBA setup.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8141279&postcount=171

[YotaFun]

I am curious.
I have mentioned in the past that I wanted to make Tess an expedition rig and base it off the ExpeditionWest Taco.

Well when looking over there build, I notice that everything on there engine was stock and they did have a dual battery setup, and thin of all the accesories that truck was running.

With that in mind do we really need a bigger alt or do we just need to run dual batteries and run the wiring propperly?

[4runnerchevy]

With that in mind do we really need a bigger alt or do we just need to run dual batteries and run the wiring propperly?


I would consider your battery as it is, a battery. Your battery should be for taking spikes, accessories that do not run constantly, and power when the key is off. I would find your current draw with all possible accessories on (that you need) and shoot for an alternator covers the current plus 15%. These accessories are the ones that you would be using, while on the trail. Lights, maybe stereo, GPS, CB & amp, etc.. I would not include a winch, welder or compressor in the mix, cause these are things a battery(or two) would cover. If your pulling 75 amps with all your lights and gizmos, and your alternator does 100 then your ok. If you have a winch, then add a second battery.

2 pennies.

[YotaFun]

I do see your point

But still curious, cause The ExpeditionWest Rig also had refrigerators, arb compressor for the front locker, all the lights and a ton of other bells and whistles that include the afor mentioned above.

I guess to my understanding, instead of runnign all the accessories straight of the alt or the one battery you would be running it off the second and only using the alt to charge both battery's.
I don't have much knowledge in the area but thats just how I see it happening.

Please enlighten me, cause I too was on the search for a bigger alt when my first one went out.

[CJM]

Issue is, what if the other battery goes bad or dies for an unknown reason Avy? I can relate that it would be simpler possibly and will afford more options, but a higher output alt will help keep the battery levels up as well as charge it quicker if it dies.

[YotaFun]

I figured that Marc.
But would you really want all those accessories running straight off the alt, or even one battery?

What happens if your one battery starts to die?
Then the alt has to do all the work, can an alt really handle that even if it was bigger?

[CJM]

It can handle it possibly, but in all honesty having both dual batteries and a high output alt imho is where to be. This way you have the high output and the 2nd batt to run it all.

I would seriously think of running 2 oddesy batteries b/c they are that much better.

[4runnerchevy]

But would you really want all those accessories running straight off the alt, or even one battery?

What happens if your one battery starts to die?
Then the alt has to do all the work, can an alt really handle that even if it was bigger?


Your confusing me now. Wether your accessories are hooked to the battery or alternator, it doesn't matter, cause its a common circuit. Most alternators run through a fusable link straight to the battery. So your entire truck is running off the alternator and the battery. Even with an isolator, where your accessories are on one battery and starting, vehicle electronics on another, your still running off the alternator+battery.

The best of both worlds would be, a starting and vehicle electronics battery. Then an isolator with 1 or 2 other batteries for compressor, winch, refrig, welder, and lights for the blind. When all these finally kill the battery then you can still start and charge them.

[Seanz0rz]

The best of both worlds would be, a starting and vehicle electronics battery. Then an isolator with 1 or 2 other batteries for compressor, winch, refrig, welder, and lights for the blind. When all these finally kill the battery then you can still start and charge them.


which is exactly what i plan on doing... but i would like the bigger alt to keep up with two batteries and all my accessories.

[YotaFun]

Sean can you share the GM stuff that chris set to you through PM for us?

[4runnerchevy]

:thumbup:

Sidenote:
Its always good to have three batteries on long trail runs, wether your running one and and a couple of other trucks, or packing 3. I bring jumpers, a ground clamp, a stinger, and some 1/8" welding rod for 36 volt DC welding.

[glenyoshida]

This is a little on the crude side of testing an alternators output but if you're like me and can't afford a Sweet ole Fluke I1010 Meter for $255 or a BK 269B for $215 then this is a pretty handy estimator. Good info from a practical view as well. The original post can be found Here (http://audioforum.termpro.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?/ubb/get_topic/f/22/t/003982.html)


Here was the question

"Dom
If you don't mind, I'd like to ask your explanation of why it is difficult to test alternators and how one can go about getting one properly tested? I know you're busy with work, but your contributions in the electrical arena could greatly help increase the knowledge base on this forum.

Thanks!"


No problem, I would love to answer this question..

Here are the main reasons for each party that tries to test an alternator.

Your hometown rebuilder.

1. They are just that, a rebuilder. They know very little about the design and function of an alternator. They just repair factory alternators by replacing parts. They also will tell you your crazy when you tell them an alternator can do 200 amps. They dont understand what they dont know.

2. When they do test an alternator,(on their bench), they almost always use small aligator clips to the battery post of the alternator. Probably 8 or 6 gage. Would you connect your 2000 watt amplifier to your battery with 8 gage? I dont think so....for obvious reasons.

3.On their bench test, they more than likely will never go over 3500 to 4000 rpm. Dont freak out, this is alternator rpm, not engine rpm. An alternator should spin atleast 3 times faster than your motor. The industry standard for max output is to be tested at 6000 rpm. Approximately 1500-2000 engine rpm. 3500-4000 is just above idle.

4.When a load is applied, it should be gradual. 75% of the test stations that are common to rebuild shops are either on.... or off when it comes to loading. (typically 300 amps) There is no way to ramp up the load presented to the alternator. When you load an alternator with an instantaneous 300 amps, the regulator does not have time to react and the reading will be substantially lower. It also depends on the type of regulator used. Some vehicles must have a time delay type regulator due to the car either being so new or aftermarket not available yet. When you load the alternator down, you keep going until the voltage level falls to that of the battery. Which is typically 13.0-13.5 This way all current being pulled is is being produced by the alternator, not the battery. You then take the current reading off the battery post of the alternator.


Your local "Autozone" or "Advanced"

I have taken my personal vehicle to both of these parts stores just to see why I get so many calls and emails stating "I had my alternator tested and it doesnt work or only does 20 amps". Both companies are improperly trained in how to test your alternator.

1.The first thing they do is roll out their tester and connect it wrong. They put the current clamp on the battery negative. Why they want to know how much current is going through your negative battery terminal is beyond me..... I personally like to know how much current is coming out the alternator OUTPUT terminal...which is the positive one.
While your sitting there at idle, before the test even begins, the tester is telling you how much current is going through the negative battery terminal. This is how much charging current your battery is pulling. They all confuse this with how much current your alternator is doing at idle. You need to first load the alternator down before you can determine how much current your alternator is capable of producing.
Just for example....I have 3-300 amp alternators on my Suburban. They told me I was doing 55 amps at idle and 168 amps max. He did admit tho after seeing under the hood, he didnt really know anything about setups like mine.

I would type more, but I gotta go. If anybody would like some explanation of other issues, let me know.
Hope this post helps.

Thanks, Dominick Iraggi

Post edited to add alternator testing procedure.

Ok, I guess I forgot to actually explain how to test an alternator.

I will explain it two different ways. One is how to test your own alternator and make sure its producing current and the other is how an alternator shop should test your alternator.


1. Put a voltmeter as close to the alternator as possible. (Positive and Negative both.) If you can put the meter leads directly on or in the wire coming off the alternator that would be optimum.

2. Now start the car and turn all accessories off and check the voltage level. It should be between 13.5 and 15.1 volts. (depends on your make and model of car) It is a good idea to write down all voltage readings your taking. The main thing your looking for is a drop in voltage. Once you hit around 12.5, your alternator is not going to produce any additional amperage.

3. Now turn on one accessory at a time. Write down that accessories fuse rating. Keep turning on accessories and adding fuse ratings until the voltage falls to 12.5. Now add 15 amps if your electric cooling fans are on and 10 amps per battery in your system. Your numbers may look like this.

2 batteries- 20 amps
Cooling fan- 15 amps
Headlights - 10 amps
A/C blower - 10 amps
Rear Dfrst - 15 amps
High Beams - 10 amps
Fuel Pump - 10 amps
---------------------
Total not including stereo system 90 amps.

If you can turn on all these accessories and your voltage does not fall below 12.8 your alternator is capable of producing more than 90 amps of current.
You can now turn on your system and start slow on the volume. Its hard to say how much current your system pulls unless you know how much power your amps are producing at a given volume level.

You will need to do all these measurments at idle and at 2000 rpm. This way you can test idle output and max.

NOTE:
When testing output at idle your numbers may appear a little low. It is probably because your alternator is making your motor bog down and when you spin an alternator slower it can not produce as much amperage.

[glenyoshida]

If I waited a day does that side step it from being an impulse buy? lol

This B&K 368B Current meter allows for D/C current draw readings without disconnecting the wire. I have no idea how they do it but that's pretty cool engineering. Measuring the EMF of an A/C wave makes sense in my book but D/C? Determining D/C current without touching a conductor? Neato! I have a feeling this is going to be one handy tool as we start adding on Rock Lights, Roof Lights, Electric Coolers, etc. This'll be good to know how much current a winch pulls, I've read as much as 650 amps, under different loads too. I'll post back up after I get it and take some readings. We might get some good info such as actual current draw at idle vs cruising speeds.

B&K 369B Meter (http://www.byramlabs.com/product_info.php/products_id/7544)
http://www.newark.com/productimages/nio/standard/3770482.jpg