what would be a fair amount of $$ for replacing rear axle seals both sides.

[2ndGen]

while after pismo i have noticed some minor clunky noise from under, couldn't figure out where it was from, i thought it could be the ARB bumper, well, for the last couple days it went really bad. i had one of my co-workers rocking the vehicle side way today after work, i went undernees, found the source of the noise, it was the driver side rear brake covered by oil. check the diff. oil level, it was about 1/2" below where it's supposed to be.

i have come across few member's post regarding replacing the seals, but i have a 2100 miles winter cross country trip coming in less than 6 weeks, i'd prefer to have it done by a certified professional, for both sides, just for pace of mind.

what would be a fair price for that job? i'd like to have an idea before i call the mechanics tomorrow.

thanks.

[fustercluck]

I only know what I was charged to press off the old bearings/seals and press on the new ones (labor only) I paid 75.00 per axle and I even brought them the axles removed from my vehicle.

My sense is that you'll be replacing more than just seals. Worn seals leak, but they don't make clunky noises...

I just did a google search...it looks like several folks paid around 500.00 to have it done on their runners.

[slosurfer]

Rear seal will be really easy:
http://www.4runners.org/writeups/rearseal/

but like fuster said, I don't think a bad seal clunks. Could be your bearings or could possibly be just how it sounds when you are that low on fluid.

[4x4mike]

The bearings could be bad and that maybe the reason for the clunk. Worn seals won't clunk. The bearings need to pulled off and pressed back on so anyone doing the labor will charge you an arm and a leg. The job, other than the pulling and pressing is really straight forward and requires few tools. If it were me I'd do the work after doing a little research here. Go to the dealer and get your seals, bearings and brake shoes there. Pull everything apart and take your axles to a shop and have them replace the OUTER axle seal and bearing. When you get home put everything back where it was, replace your pads and bleed your brakes. One of my seals went and the job was one of the first repairs I did on my 4runner. Granted it was just an INNER seal and didn't require removal of the bearings. One side took me around 45 minutes and that included replacing the brake shoes. By the time I was done my wife was home to help me bleed the brakes.

I had a shop quote me close to $700 to replace the bearings and inner and outer seals. This quote did not include the fluids (brake and gear oil). If you have questions post up here as there have been several of us that have done this recently.

[2ndGen]

alright, sounds like this is not something DIY, as for the bearings, Autozone carries Timken ones $90 a pair, i heard it's top notch quality. seals i'd go with OEM for sure.

i'll see what my mechanic say tomorrow, update what i found out.

thanks, guys.

[fustercluck]

yup, let us know what you did and how it went...

[4x4mike]

Tell your mechanic you want to take a stab at it and ask him if he can help you out with the bearing work. Make sure you get a seal installation tool as well alothough you can use PVC or the like. It'll ensure the seal goes in straight and seals properly.

[2ndGen]

i got a quote of $250 labor and i bring the parts. sounds like a fair deal based on the info i gethered so far. i'll call my man Rafa@NTP to get prices on the parts. my local dealer (Longo Toyota) wants $79+tax for the bearing, EACH..... that's $30 more than the online OEM stores' price. i'll see what Rafa can do.

[4x4mike]

That price on labor seems good considering you need a brake job and you won't have to buy any tools. Check your wheel cylinders because if they need replacing or look bad now is the time to do it. My rear shoes were $90 from the dealer, way high but I was there and I needed them. Also get the ABS gear. I think it was Mastacox that said those had to be replaced once they're pulled. They come off when you replace the bearings.

[Seanz0rz]

the abs ring does indeed need to be replaced.

[2ndGen]

OH, BOY. gotta call carrie to add the abs rings, what else you guys have been not telling me? huh....

by the way, just another plug for NTP, if you're in SoCal and ordering parts, give them a try. i saved $60 on the bearing alone.

[Seanz0rz]

here is the fsm

[4x4mike]

Well it looks like from Shaun's pdf the bearing reatiner and snap ring need to be replaced but they might come in the kit. I'm not sure about the gasket that looks to be between the outer axle mounting surface and the inside of the drum. I don't think I even have one of those.
BTW it's the speed sensor rotor and not the sensor that needs to be replaced.

[fustercluck]

Just chuck the ABS stuff. ABS is for girlies anyway...



































...J/K :hillbill:

[2ndGen]

update:

dropped off my truck at the shop 8am sharp this morning, friend of mine gave me a ride back to work. got a phone call from the shop around high noon, the rear axles tore down and PARTS are NO SHOW!!!! i called NTP for the tracking #, then called Fedex, went back and forth few time. by 1:30pm, i found out when the box was dropped of at Fedex, it already missed the cut-off time. it won't delivered till monday.

with the truck on the lift not going anywhere, axles pulled, bearings ponded out, the shop owner was really pissed. small shops make their quick money on weekends, i don't know what they are gonna do tomorrow.....

next time, i'll make sure i got the parts on my hands first.

[slosurfer]

ah man, bummer Tony! :(

[MTL_4runner]

I think all this talk of axle seals jinxed me.....now I've got to do mine too.

[4Runner202020]

next time just don't get anything shipped fed ex lol (i work for ups)

sorry to hear that though... sometimes things dont work out as planned.

[MTL_4runner]

A question fo you guys that have done it....
Which axle seals (inner or outer?) are typically leaking when people are having to do them?

I saw Bob's writeup and it looked like it only addresses the inner seal. My bearings are not gone yet so if I can avoid doing those for now I will because parts up here are crazy expensive and after changing just about everything in the truck, my pocketbook has taken a beating lately.

[YotaFun]

I am a little late in the game here, but to replace both inner and outer seals plus the bearing was $700 alone... of course I also had to replace the rear pads and get the drums cleaned.

I need to do my seals again, cause of the new axle I have under there after my accident...

[fustercluck]

A question fo you guys that have done it....
Which axle seals (inner or outer?) are typically leaking when people are having to do them?

I saw Bob's writeup and it looked like it only addresses the inner seal. My bearings are not gone yet so if I can avoid doing those for now I will because parts up here are crazy expensive and after changing just about everything in the truck, my pocketbook has taken a beating lately.


If the third gen rear axle configuration is like the first and second gen, then just changing the outer seals is a piece of cake. Check my runner write-up toward the end, I think I have some pics of the rear seal and axle relationship. You should be able to see if the project is beyond your interest. Now that I've done it, I think I could repeat the proceedure in a few hours working at I usual ADHD riddled pace. :hillbill:

[AutoShop]

Just so some of you know.. There are some colleges out here that have automotive departments. Me and Jenn (JnJ) are both taking Extreme Off-Road Suspension. And we do work on outside vehicles. Its a 20 dollar flat fee and you supply all necessary parts.

[4x4mike]

A question fo you guys that have done it....
Which axle seals (inner or outer?) are typically leaking when people are having to do them?

I saw Bob's writeup and it looked like it only addresses the inner seal. My bearings are not gone yet so if I can avoid doing those for now I will because parts up here are crazy expensive and after changing just about everything in the truck, my pocketbook has taken a beating lately.


If the third gen rear axle configuration is like the first and second gen, then just changing the outer seals is a piece of cake. Check my runner write-up toward the end, I think I have some pics of the rear seal and axle relationship. You should be able to see if the project is beyond your interest. Now that I've done it, I think I could repeat the proceedure in a few hours working at I usual ADHD riddled pace. :hillbill:



Search here. The INNER seals are the easier ones to replace and are what is shown in Bob's write up.

[2ndGen]

good news, got the 4runner back this evening. everthing was fine except the brake needs to be re-bleed. i was in a hurry to catch my class so it's gonna be done later on.

next project: Stainless Steel skid plate.

[MTL_4runner]

I haven't looked at an exploded diagram of the rear axle assembly but I did go to the dealer today and talked with both the parts guy and a mechanic about the rear seals. The way they were explaining there was only one true axle seal (the one in Bob's writeup) and the "outer seal" was really nothing more than a dust boot (but it would require removal of the bearing to change). Does this sound right to those of you that have changed them on a 3rd gen? I'm sure this process will be cake, but I want to make sure I have all the parts before I start the job.

Just added an exploded view from the FSM.

[Seanz0rz]

jamie, that is correct. the one that leaks is the INNER (incorrect in bob's writeup, he had the right part, wrong name) seal.

heres what i needed for mine:
seal puller (one in bob's write up)
seal driver kit (one in bob's writeup)
inner axle seals (bought from napa, seem good)
brake parts cleaner.
brake fluid.
diff fluid

thats it! its alot simpler than i think it looks. dont let the shaft rest on the seal when putting it back in. other than that.. its fairly easy. you should have NO problem doing it, might need an extra hand.

[4x4mike]

Don't forget brake shoes if yours are full of gear oil.

[2ndGen]

i'm glad i didn't do it myself because changing the worn out wheel bearings is a whole different story. my mechanic had to sent the axle shafts to another shop to get the retainers and bearings out and new bearings in because his press wasn't tall enough.

[mastacox]

Yeah I had my own painful experience of replacing the axle bearings and associated stuff very recently. Getting all Toyota OEM parts (bearings, ABS rings, retainers, seals) and press time cost $550 (ouch). Adding in the new shoes and other random stuff I'm pretty sure I broke $600 total, way more than the $12 for new inner seals I was hoping for...

http://www.ultimateyota.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=5182.15

[benp]

damnn one of mine just went bad and i only have 77K miles... this sucks

what normally causes this to happen??(driving through mud if i'd have to guess)and im assuming i need to get this fixed ASAP, right??

[YotaFun]

damnn one of mine just went bad and i only have 77K miles... this sucks

what normally causes this to happen??(driving through mud if i'd have to guess)and im assuming i need to get this fixed ASAP, right??


did you extend the rear diff breather?
cause that is one cause, well at least that was my cause..
the breather got gummed up and blew the seals.
but normally its just wear and tear, though step dad has over 150K on his truck and the seals are still good.

well if you like to have what ever the rear drums can offer you and not wear out your fronts just as fast, i would suggest getting it fixed. mine is going into the shop today or tomorrow, it got to cold to quick for me to do any work myself on the truck...

[4x4mike]

It can be caused by a stuck diff vent. The sooner the better. The more you drive the more gear oil you'll lose. That might not be the end of the world but it dumps into your brake drum which might turn out to be the end of the world for you or others.

[4x4mike]

damnn one of mine just went bad and i only have 77K miles... this sucks

Might as well replace both INNER seals. I only did one side and by the end of the week the other side started leaking. I think the oil searches out the weakest link. Pull off you diff breather and clean it out to make sure it's owrking properly. If you suspect it's not get another one, they're about 9 bucks.

[benp]

did you extend the rear diff breather?
cause that is one cause, well at least that was my cause..
the breather got gummed up and blew the seals.


No, unfortunatly i haven't extended my rear diff breather yet. It was something i planned on doing at some point. In this case I'm guessing SOONER would have been better than later.

Being an inexperienced teenager, I have gone "mudding" before,although I have quickly learned the negative consequences of this... I don't mind mud puddles on a trail or small amounts but just running your truck through 3 or 4 ft of mud just isnt justifable in my opinion now.

This is bad timing :shake: as I was just on the verge of convincing my dad that we should put more money into my truck (i.e. lift, tires, or arb bumper). Now we're gonna have to spend it on this...

I'm gonna take it in either tomorrow or Friday. I just wonder how long it will take, its such an inconvenience without my truck. I guess I should be expecting to pay around 700$? :chair:




damnn one of mine just went bad and i only have 77K miles... this sucks

Might as well replace both INNER seals. I only did one side and by the end of the week the other side started leaking. I think the oil searches out the weakest link. Pull off you diff breather and clean it out to make sure it's owrking properly. If you suspect it's not get another one, they're about 9 bucks.


I will mostly likely just have both of them done. If I had one fixed and then other one blew like a month later, talk about being pissed.

How many miles did you have on your 4runner when yours blew?? And after i clean out the breather how can I be sure it's working properly?

[04 Rocko Taco]

And after i clean out the breather how can I be sure it's working properly?


once it is cleaned out, (clean it OFF very well also) and blow into the part that threads into the axle housing... if your air blows out of the breather, voila, it works.

[4x4mike]

I will mostly likely just have both of them done. If I had one fixed and then other one blew like a month later, talk about being pissed.

How many miles did you have on your 4runner when yours blew?? And after i clean out the breather how can I be sure it's working properly?

If you can you will want to determine if it's the inner or outer seals. If it's the inner it'll take you you about 2 or 3 hours including a brake job and brake bleed. My bearings were fine so I assumed it was just the inners so those were the ones I replaced. All in all I think it cost me less than $200 and I replaced the wheel cylinders (with Toyota OEM) and brake shoes (Toyota OEM). I already had the brake fluid and gear oil. Oh I did have to buy the seal installer like the one in Bob's write up. I think it was all of about $15.

I soaked my breather in brake cleaned and then blew it out with compressed air. At room temp off the diff the cap would go down if depressed. When you let go it would pop back up.

[MTL_4runner]

I've got right around 150K miles on my truck and one inner seal let go. I'm going do both sides and replace the rear drums and shoes (which were in need anyway). I'll confirm what the mechanic said about the outer seal being a dust boot when I get in there but from what he mentioned, it was nearly always the inner seals that leaked.

Here's my parts list at the moment (in CDN):
2 Inner seals (dealer, $10 ea)
3 Qts Synthetic 75W-90 (aftermarket, $20 ea)
2 Rear drums (aftermarket, $65 ea)
1 Spring kit (aftermarket, $14)
1 Brake shoes (aftermarket, $20)

Misc:
Brake cleaner
Brake fluid
MP grease
Lithium grease

[4x4mike]

When I went to the dealer to get the seal the first time I asked for the outer seal. I assumed outer seal because they are the outer most and keep in the oil in. That and I read Bob's write up. When he brought the outer seal out it didn't look right. I guess it did look like a seal but not one you'd need a puller for. When he brought the inner one out I saw it had the metal ring so I got it.

[MTL_4runner]

Well I just did my axle seals today and overall it wouldn't have been a bad job except for the rusted crap you have to deal with up here. First there was some question as to whether you need the inner or outer axle seals so let me answer that question first. If your seals are leaking then 100% of the time it will be the inner ones. The rear wheel bearings are the sealed type and should not be in contact with gear oil (this could have at least been a contributor to why my wheel bearing went south). The only time you would (or could) change the outer seals is if you were changing the wheel bearing too.

The passenger side seal was relatively easy to do and although the parking brake bellcrank was frozen, I was able to get it freed up and working well again.One side down, one to go.

The driver side was a totally different story (you can see from the pic showing the oil soaked brakes. After getting the axle out I also realized almost right away that the wheel bearing on that side was also toast. :shake: To make matters worse, when I pulled back the boot of the bellcrank, it was full of oxidized aluminum.....not a good sign. :( I decided to give it a try to rehabilitate it anyway. I then proceeded to break the aluminum portion of the parking brake bellcrank assembly trying to get the frozen pivot pin loose (note to self, don't use an air hammer on aluminum parts, especially in cold weather :laugh:). I know the dealer does sell the part I broke seperately, so I should be ok there. Now on the bad wheel bearing I can either go to the dealer and have a new outer dust seal, bearing and ABS ring pressed on or I can hit the junkyard and find a new axle (with who knows how many miles left on it) ready to install. It will depend on the price for the parts / labor to have it changed.

One trick I did learn is that a 2" ABS pipe coupler is exactly the right size to drive the axle seals into place (I thought I had a socket big enough to drive the seal but had to improvise at the last minute). Also I didn't need a seal puller, a set of pliers when twisted work equally as well. Enjoy the pics.

[MTL_4runner]

More pics.

[MTL_4runner]

Looks like I'll need this breakout now too if I want to swap bearings.

[4x4mike]

More pics.


My brakes looked the same way. I used a can of brake cleaner on each side.