OK guys, it's time to lift the truck and I need some help

[oly884]

The front isn't the big deal, I'm most likely going to go with Sonoran Steel's front lift.

However, the rear suspension is going to be a bit trickier with me. I figure I have ~1000 lbs of gear with the camper loaded down. Right now, I have air bags, and they are pretty decent, but to get any lift I have to fill them at just about the maximum pressure, and even then, it's not more that an inch to 1.5 inches of lift.

So, that leaves me with a few options, either do a custom airbag/new spring lift, or go with just springs and have them custom made to handle the additional weight of the camper. If you guys could weigh in opinions and suggestions on this, I would really appreciate it. Also, any manufacturers that you think would do the trick would be great to know about.

Thanks in advance guys!

[Whitey]

Do you have the camper in all the time?

[Robinhood4x4]

How much lift are you going to need and do you want to do this cheap or spend a few bucks?

[Erich_870]

I don't know what your specific air bags look like, but could you add a lift in the form of new springs or longer shackles and just reposition your airbags for the new height? ie, move them down your frame rail with some sort of bracket? :headscratch:

Erich

[oly884]

Do you have the camper in all the time?


Most of the time, yes. Ideally I don't want it on all the time, but storing the camper is more of a PITA than leaving it on all the time.



How much lift are you going to need and do you want to do this cheap or spend a few bucks?


2" ideally, and I'm willing to spend a few bucks if it means it'll lift the truck properly.



I don't know what your specific air bags look like, but could you add a lift in the form of new springs or longer shackles and just reposition your airbags for the new height? ie, move them down your frame rail with some sort of bracket? :headscratch:

Erich


The only way to keep my air bags and lift the truck would be to get lift blocks, and I don't want those...

It is looking more and more like custom springs and just dealing with a very stiff ride (that's what she said) when the camper is off.

[Robinhood4x4]

It is looking more and more like custom springs and just dealing with a very stiff ride (that's what she said) when the camper is off.


Not necessarily. I think you can keep your air bags. Since you're willing to spend money, I'd say get new, taller springs, but a normal spring rate. That way you keep your ride comfort the same when you don't have your camper on. Re-use your air bags by using plastic blocks to lift them up 2 inches or put the blocks on the other end so the air bags have a platform to touch.

I agree with your thoughts about using leaf spring blocks, but blocks for the airbags shouldn't harm anything. They don't take any torque load like leaf springs do. I bet Roger at 4crawler could cut you some custom air bag pads or you could do it yourself.

[oly884]

http://chobao.smugmug.com/photos/119460075-M.jpg

this is close to what my air bags look like, not the exact setup, but very similar. As you can see, if I were to get different springs, the bags them selves would have to be longer.

[DHC6twinotter]

I think what Steve is suggesting is to buy taller springs and put a 2" block either between the airbag and the spring, or between the airbag and the frame.

Seems like a good idea to me, but I wonder if you would need to extend the bumpstops?

I'm not too familiar with the spring setups on the Tacoma, but are the springs directly under the frame rail, or offset to the side? You may be able to use these bags, http://www.airliftcompany.com/ride_control.html, and place the upper bracket where you want on your frame rail. If those bags are longer than yours, you may be able to even use your old bracketry.

I dunno...I'm not too familiar with airbags or the tacoma rear suspension, so maybe dumb idea. :headscratch:

[Robinhood4x4]

It looks do-able to me Dave. You just need to modify the brackets a little and put a block under there.

[oly884]

It looks do-able to me Dave. You just need to modify the brackets a little and put a block under there.


edit: see below....

[neliconcept]

not sure if this is a thought, i see you have a fabbed bracket for the bags

are airbags of longer lengths hard to get? im not sure, but you could end up making a longer bracket to compensate larger springs?

[oly884]

I may have found something that will work for spacing the air bags, but I'll have to verify to be sure.

I will say that if I can avoid spacing I'll go that option because I don't want to limit articulation if I don't have to.

[slosurfer]

I would say just buy a kit with longer airbags, rather than spacing it. I'm sure you could sell the ones that you have now to recoup some of that cost.

[oly884]

I would say just buy a kit with longer airbags, rather than spacing it. I'm sure you could sell the ones that you have now to recoup some of that cost.


The trick is finding the kit with longer air bags. Ideally I'd like to keep the mounting the same (I have drilled into my frame) and just get longer bags. Air lift has quite an extensive list of air bags, but the issue is finding the air bags that are like mine, but longer. I have an email into Air Lift asking for some help, but if I don't hear anything from them, I'll call them to find the appropriate product.

I did find that Air Lift makes spacers (you were right Steve) but spacing them just doesn't sit too comfortably with me because I would like to have full articulation if I need it. If I can find the right replacement air bag from Air Lift that has the same mounting, diameter, etc, but is simply 2+ inches longer I'll be set and I can get some Alcan or Deaver springs custom made that will still support the camper fairly well (perfect with the air bag addition) but still offer a decent ride with the camper off.

Thanks for the help guys! And if anyone knows how to decipher air lift's air bag list to find the one I'm looking for, I'd appreciate any help!

[oly884]

Got an email back from air lift, found the correct air bags that are 2" taller than mine right now. Done deal!

Also got an email into Alcan for springs, so now I just have to figure out how much I want on the air bags and how much I want on the springs.

[DHC6twinotter]

Well sweet! :thumbup:

[Erich_870]

That's great to hear Oly!

You'll have to share the part numbers so other guys can jump straight to your improved setup :thumbup:

Erich

[oly884]

Here's the email:

David,

The 50269 airbag is 2” taller, so should work for your application. Please let me know how this works for you.

Bob Troub
Customer Service
Air Lift Company
(800) 248-0892

Exact same mounting, simply a longer air bag. So I just have to remove my existing air bags, and put the new one's on with the new springs.

[DHC6twinotter]

David, just out of curiosity, are your current bags you have from Air Lift? Have they been pretty reliable? If I end up buying an older Tundra DC, I'd probably throw a set of their bags in the rear to help while towing.

[oly884]

David, just out of curiosity, are your current bags you have from Air Lift? Have they been pretty reliable? If I end up buying an older Tundra DC, I'd probably throw a set of their bags in the rear to help while towing.


Yes they have after I got a few bugs figured out. Following the installation *exactly* is key to having them be reliable. I had to go through 2 air bags due to my installation error. I can explain later when I dig up a picture for you, but after I fixed the problem, I have had zero problems, and that is through 2 montana winters and countless camping trips, washboard roads, etc.

[oly884]

Ordered and on the way:

Front lift from Sonoran Steel (thanks Steve!)

Rear lift from Alcan Springs, along with longer Air Lift bellows (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AIR-50269&N=700+400054+4294746561+115&autoview=sku) that are 2" longer.

[Erich_870]

Cool! :thumbup:

Looking farward to seeing pics of your new set up!

Erich

[oly884]

Cool! :thumbup:

Looking farward to seeing pics of your new set up!

Erich


Thanks! Should be around 2" taller and much more solid. Luckily I don't have to deal with new tires as I have tall tires on there right now. It will just be nice to not have rubbing going on. (the bad kind, not the good kind)

[Erich_870]

Thanks! Should be around 2" taller and much more solid. Luckily I don't have to deal with new tires as I have tall tires on there right now. It will just be nice to not have rubbing going on. (the bad kind, not the good kind)


Hehehe, your new springs will prevent bad rubbing in your wheel wells and promote good rubbing in your camper :hillbill:

Erich

[oly884]

Thanks! Should be around 2" taller and much more solid. Luckily I don't have to deal with new tires as I have tall tires on there right now. It will just be nice to not have rubbing going on. (the bad kind, not the good kind)



Hehehe, your new springs will prevent bad rubbing in your wheel wells and promote good rubbing in your camper :hillbill:

Erich


I can only hope!

[RobG]

Ordered and on the way:

Front lift from Sonoran Steel (thanks Steve!)

Rear lift from Alcan Springs, along with longer Air Lift bellows (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AIR-50269&N=700+400054+4294746561+115&autoview=sku) that are 2" longer.


Just a word of warning about my Alcan experience, My springs provided about 2" less lift than they were supposed to. It's a rather heavy 2nd gen 4runner that carry's gear but I discussed all of that with them. If I was ordering again I would order 7.5"-8" lift to get 5inches in the standard spring rate.

[oly884]

Ordered and on the way:

Front lift from Sonoran Steel (thanks Steve!)

Rear lift from Alcan Springs, along with longer Air Lift bellows (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=AIR-50269&N=700+400054+4294746561+115&autoview=sku) that are 2" longer.


Just a word of warning about my Alcan experience, My springs provided about 2" less lift than they were supposed to. It's a rather heavy 2nd gen 4runner that carry's gear but I discussed all of that with them. If I was ordering again I would order 7.5"-8" lift to get 5inches in the standard spring rate.


I'll be interested to see what happens, I had a similar thing happen with deaver...

I did make sure to get an increased spring rate, as well as 3" of lift. So, they "should" be fine, but we'll see what happens. I got 200# per inch on each side with 3" of lift on an empty tacoma bed. So, we'll see how they turn out!

[RobG]

200 is an increased spring rate for a taco? What is standard?

I believe mine are 220 which is the standard Marlin Spring Rate. I'm thinking of trying the allpro rear springs as they are 250lbs/in. 220 is a little harsh with no weight in the truck, with my standard 100-150lbs of tools/supplies in the back it smooths out nicely. With 500+ lbs it sags significantly.

Your truck with the camper has to be heavier than my 4runner. I assume you are aiming for a decent ride+height without the camper and then counting on the air bags to level things out. Thats what I was doing until I popped an airbag on my last trip. Made things slow going after that. It was my fault with the airbag install once again though.

Good luck, the Alcans are nice.

[oly884]

I was told it was 125#/inch...

Do you think that 250#/in would be a better choice?

[RobG]

I have no idea what would be good for your application, I'm a leaf spring hack. 220 seems pretty good for me with a light to moderate load. I would assume 250 would be very harsh without a large load. going with a lighter spring that works at most light to moderate loads and an air bag to help with the heavy loads seems like the best solution.