4x4mike
01-02-2009, 08:00 PM
Ok, I know some obvious reasons but let me paint a picture. I've got a '99 4runner and I replaced the rear brake linings, axle seals and bled the brakes last summer. The system has worked well and I have driven and wheeled on it since the repairs and had no problems, until today.
Here's my long winded story. I decided to go skiing as I had the day off. A storm was coming in but it was a warm one and it rained until I got around 6,000 ft in elevation, then there was snow and lots of it. I skied all day and before I left the resort I brushed off the nearly 1 foot on snow that had fallen. There was still day light so I decided to go for a little drive. In 4hi I pulled out of the parking lot and continued down the road. Everything was working fine (brakes, 4wd, etc). The road had a little snow on it but also had about an inch of ice. As the road started downhill I tapped on the brakes because I wanted to go a little slower than I was, 35 down to maybe 25 or so. As I did so I felt and heard the ABS working in the front but maybe it was form under the hood, the ass end also kicked out a bit. Weird and holy mother of sh!t at the same time. I've slid before but this was a little different. The road was a 2 laner but most people were traveling down the middle and here I was pulling a sideways poopie (also known as a Spinal Tap poopie http://www.cs.umd.edu/~dabe/Poopie.html). Anyways I'm headed downhill at and angle at about 15 mph and cars are coming uphill and I'm just waiting for some sheet metal to mate. I counter steer, which is weird while going so slow, and try to use the gas to gain some kind of control but nothing. I pull the e brake and start to slide to the guard rail where I come to a stop. The rail is covered with snow which is good because on the other side of the rail is a 200+ foot gradual fall to the South fork of the Yuba River. There are headlights behind me so I let them pass then I throw it in reverse, nothing. Forward, nothing. Then 4lo, nothing and then nothing. I get out and everything looks fine there isn't even snow under the vehicle to shovel out. After a couple more tries, while cars are just passing (maybe they thought I was looking at the river), an F150 pulls right behind me and a guy jumps out with a strap. I tell him to be careful because it's slipperyer than the barn floor after a long weekend. He says no problem (what?) and then gives me an uphill vehicle straightening pull. Sweet I tell him as a Prius drives by without any chains :argue: :chair: :shake:. I get back and an continue down the road even though I wanted to go back the direction I came but I was already a sideways ass so I figured I wouldn't "plug up" the road. I go about 5 feet and the ass end starts moving, balls! I try to straighten but nothing. I use the brakes and it doesn't help much so I'm looking for a cheap car to hit and a way out all at the same time. After about 30 feet of this I slide into a shoulder area, about 5 feet off the road so the rear is sticking into the lane. So there I was, a stuck sideways poopie (a green one at that), perpendicular to the road facing a burly fall, getting clipped by trucks from BigG@yTruckland, and on an icy slope :clap:.
F150 guy jumps out and he's all :confused: :screwy: :loser: and I was a little pissed and just scared sh!tty. He said my passenger side rear tire wasn't spinning. WTF!. I told him to take a look while I put in 2hi and try to peel out all while pushing against an oldassed snow covered guard rail. Driver side spins but no passenger side. He asks he how he can help and I told him I'd figure it out, which is probably best because as I look uphill I see an F150 burger, and bowl of chili, half a pizza and a twinkie all waiting to push this poopie down the hill into the river.
I put the 4runner in 4lo again and try forward and back again and saw the wheel back and forth. F150 guy said the brake my have frozen but why did it work leaving the resort, if only I had my mapp torch :love:. I busted out my jack and lifted up the rear, keeping in mind my rear was sticking out in traffic all while getting pounded with wind and snow. Once lifted I bear hugged the wheel and tried to turn it, guess what it didn't move :asshat:. I guess if driving down the road and burning out didn't do it I couldn't do it. Anyways, I used the lug wrench on the lugs to try to get it to spin, this always spins the tire if it's up in the air, nope. Yes the e brake was off and the tranny in neutral. After I went all mafia on my tire and brake drum with the lug wrench I decided to take the wheel off, of course this happened without a hitch. After it was off I tried the drum, nothing, tried prying with the lug wrench spike end, nothing, cussed and spit at it, nothing. As I stare at the thing I remembered the bolts I had in spare holes under the hood. I grab the 12mm and retrieve 2 bolts, threaded them into the drum and presto, got that mother off. I looked at the braking system and everything looked fine and attached, no broken shoes, fluid, ice, metal shavings, blood, squirrels, etc. I was getting tired of snow falling down my crack so I decided to put the thing back together, hell I was partially blocking a frozen portion of highway 40 so moving was in my best interest. I turned the pad adjuster back a turn or 2 and slid the drum back on and re-installed the wheel. When I went to lower the jack I noticed that it was at about 20 degrees from straight up, as in the 4Runner was m'fing falling off the sliding jack, damn it. Anyways I throw everything in the back and put it in 4lo. I look left, right and left again then reverse downhill a frozen slope with a vehicle that has questionable handing and braking. To my surprise the thing moved fine, made the 3 point turn well and I jetted back uphill where I came from. I pulled back into the resort parking lot to check the lugnuts for tightness, my pants for a surprise poopie and my phone for cell reception. I had reception but I decided to trudge on. I made it to the freeway and back home without a problem.
Now to my question. What happened?
F150 guy made it sound like you weren't supposed to set the parking brake in the winter or where it freezes. I've never heard this nor have I ever had this problem before. Maybe just maybe the pads had water in them from the downpour and when I stopped it froze? But why was I able to move out of my parking spot and continue down the highway?
Can the ABS lock up a wheel and keep it locked? Doesn't really make sense seeing as I was able to eventually drive away and use the brakes without it locking up.
One thing to note is that once I turned the pad adjuster and slowly moved the axle by the wheel studs the axle kept moving by it's self. You could stop it but it took some force but it was doable with one hand. Once you let go it would move again in a forward direction. I've never taken a wheel off with the vehicle running before so maybe this is par for the course. For the record I had the vehicle on because I had the heater going and I also wanted to make sure it would start (seeing my luck I could seeing it not start once I got it buttoned up). I had to turn the engine off to get the axle to stop spinning in order to get the wheel on. The truck was in neutral and 2wd when it was doing this.
Let me know what you all think. I didn't get pictures of the whole thing mostly because I was cold panicked and pissed. Thanks for reading.
Here's my long winded story. I decided to go skiing as I had the day off. A storm was coming in but it was a warm one and it rained until I got around 6,000 ft in elevation, then there was snow and lots of it. I skied all day and before I left the resort I brushed off the nearly 1 foot on snow that had fallen. There was still day light so I decided to go for a little drive. In 4hi I pulled out of the parking lot and continued down the road. Everything was working fine (brakes, 4wd, etc). The road had a little snow on it but also had about an inch of ice. As the road started downhill I tapped on the brakes because I wanted to go a little slower than I was, 35 down to maybe 25 or so. As I did so I felt and heard the ABS working in the front but maybe it was form under the hood, the ass end also kicked out a bit. Weird and holy mother of sh!t at the same time. I've slid before but this was a little different. The road was a 2 laner but most people were traveling down the middle and here I was pulling a sideways poopie (also known as a Spinal Tap poopie http://www.cs.umd.edu/~dabe/Poopie.html). Anyways I'm headed downhill at and angle at about 15 mph and cars are coming uphill and I'm just waiting for some sheet metal to mate. I counter steer, which is weird while going so slow, and try to use the gas to gain some kind of control but nothing. I pull the e brake and start to slide to the guard rail where I come to a stop. The rail is covered with snow which is good because on the other side of the rail is a 200+ foot gradual fall to the South fork of the Yuba River. There are headlights behind me so I let them pass then I throw it in reverse, nothing. Forward, nothing. Then 4lo, nothing and then nothing. I get out and everything looks fine there isn't even snow under the vehicle to shovel out. After a couple more tries, while cars are just passing (maybe they thought I was looking at the river), an F150 pulls right behind me and a guy jumps out with a strap. I tell him to be careful because it's slipperyer than the barn floor after a long weekend. He says no problem (what?) and then gives me an uphill vehicle straightening pull. Sweet I tell him as a Prius drives by without any chains :argue: :chair: :shake:. I get back and an continue down the road even though I wanted to go back the direction I came but I was already a sideways ass so I figured I wouldn't "plug up" the road. I go about 5 feet and the ass end starts moving, balls! I try to straighten but nothing. I use the brakes and it doesn't help much so I'm looking for a cheap car to hit and a way out all at the same time. After about 30 feet of this I slide into a shoulder area, about 5 feet off the road so the rear is sticking into the lane. So there I was, a stuck sideways poopie (a green one at that), perpendicular to the road facing a burly fall, getting clipped by trucks from BigG@yTruckland, and on an icy slope :clap:.
F150 guy jumps out and he's all :confused: :screwy: :loser: and I was a little pissed and just scared sh!tty. He said my passenger side rear tire wasn't spinning. WTF!. I told him to take a look while I put in 2hi and try to peel out all while pushing against an oldassed snow covered guard rail. Driver side spins but no passenger side. He asks he how he can help and I told him I'd figure it out, which is probably best because as I look uphill I see an F150 burger, and bowl of chili, half a pizza and a twinkie all waiting to push this poopie down the hill into the river.
I put the 4runner in 4lo again and try forward and back again and saw the wheel back and forth. F150 guy said the brake my have frozen but why did it work leaving the resort, if only I had my mapp torch :love:. I busted out my jack and lifted up the rear, keeping in mind my rear was sticking out in traffic all while getting pounded with wind and snow. Once lifted I bear hugged the wheel and tried to turn it, guess what it didn't move :asshat:. I guess if driving down the road and burning out didn't do it I couldn't do it. Anyways, I used the lug wrench on the lugs to try to get it to spin, this always spins the tire if it's up in the air, nope. Yes the e brake was off and the tranny in neutral. After I went all mafia on my tire and brake drum with the lug wrench I decided to take the wheel off, of course this happened without a hitch. After it was off I tried the drum, nothing, tried prying with the lug wrench spike end, nothing, cussed and spit at it, nothing. As I stare at the thing I remembered the bolts I had in spare holes under the hood. I grab the 12mm and retrieve 2 bolts, threaded them into the drum and presto, got that mother off. I looked at the braking system and everything looked fine and attached, no broken shoes, fluid, ice, metal shavings, blood, squirrels, etc. I was getting tired of snow falling down my crack so I decided to put the thing back together, hell I was partially blocking a frozen portion of highway 40 so moving was in my best interest. I turned the pad adjuster back a turn or 2 and slid the drum back on and re-installed the wheel. When I went to lower the jack I noticed that it was at about 20 degrees from straight up, as in the 4Runner was m'fing falling off the sliding jack, damn it. Anyways I throw everything in the back and put it in 4lo. I look left, right and left again then reverse downhill a frozen slope with a vehicle that has questionable handing and braking. To my surprise the thing moved fine, made the 3 point turn well and I jetted back uphill where I came from. I pulled back into the resort parking lot to check the lugnuts for tightness, my pants for a surprise poopie and my phone for cell reception. I had reception but I decided to trudge on. I made it to the freeway and back home without a problem.
Now to my question. What happened?
F150 guy made it sound like you weren't supposed to set the parking brake in the winter or where it freezes. I've never heard this nor have I ever had this problem before. Maybe just maybe the pads had water in them from the downpour and when I stopped it froze? But why was I able to move out of my parking spot and continue down the highway?
Can the ABS lock up a wheel and keep it locked? Doesn't really make sense seeing as I was able to eventually drive away and use the brakes without it locking up.
One thing to note is that once I turned the pad adjuster and slowly moved the axle by the wheel studs the axle kept moving by it's self. You could stop it but it took some force but it was doable with one hand. Once you let go it would move again in a forward direction. I've never taken a wheel off with the vehicle running before so maybe this is par for the course. For the record I had the vehicle on because I had the heater going and I also wanted to make sure it would start (seeing my luck I could seeing it not start once I got it buttoned up). I had to turn the engine off to get the axle to stop spinning in order to get the wheel on. The truck was in neutral and 2wd when it was doing this.
Let me know what you all think. I didn't get pictures of the whole thing mostly because I was cold panicked and pissed. Thanks for reading.