Holy body roll!

[paddlenbike]

This is a Motorweek-like road test of the 1969 Chevrolet Impala--it had me laughing for a good five minutes. Watch this video and you'll see just how far automotive suspensions and brakes have come!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ePisYhvNmF4

If you liked that one, here's another one for the 1969 Ford LTD. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7z3TAy5etE)

If you're a car aficionado, you'll probably like these. :lol:

[fustercluck]

Well yeah, that was 1969....all roads were straight back then and in 1/4 mile segments. :hillbill:

[corax]

holy soft sidewall, it looked like it was riding on the edge of the rim through the one turn.

[slosurfer]

haha, that's just what I was going to post!!! At 4:54 front driverside tire looks like it folded under and it's driving on the rim. :laugh:

[paddlenbike]

All of those big heavy cars do that. That's why so many of them can't keep those white walls clean--because they're driving on them around corners!

[Tankota]

Hehe i like that.

[DHC6twinotter]

That's great! The commentator describing how "fast" the car accelerated was hilarious! :lol:

[paddlenbike]

The powertrain comments were hilarious. You'd think a 396 cubic inch V8 would do better than 13.9 seconds to 60 and almost 20 seconds in the quarter mile...a Honda Fit would beat that by several car lengths. And we're talking Chevy Impala car lengths, not Honda Fit ones...lol.

I would love to take a car like that for a few laps around the track. It looks like it's in slow motion, only the tires are rolled onto their sidewalls and smoking at 15 mph.

[Seanz0rz]

and to think in 1969 most euro sports cars had disk brakes and independent rear suspensions, something even the 2010 mustang lacks....

and we wonder why Americans aren't buying American cars anymore.

dont get me wrong. i absolutely LOVE American muscle, but people these days want stuff that will go around corners, and not end in ball of fire. hahaha.

[paddlenbike]

sean, what you said was funny and pretty much true!

My 1988 Toyota Supra had twin cams, 4 valves per cylinder, electronically adjustable independent rear suspension...something that most of today's American sports cars still don't have.

[CJM]

Sadly sean and paddlen are 100% right.. The only american sports car that comes close is the camaro/trans am FB or the corvette, the mustant in all its glory still had drums and was way behind GM imho and always was.

Its all about the suspension, if the car handles better then you can drive faster with no worries. I still think the cheapest, easiest car to mod would be a camaro/FB/TA but they really dont have much sophistication like a supra or even an integra has lol.

Still, a nice worked 383 stroker into a 1985 camaro with a good 2 speed powerglide or maybe a 5 or 6 speed would be nice. I know my friends 92 stang witht he 383 was sweet.

[made in canada]

i love old american cars, i would kill to have one and do it up for show, but if i was to make a cheep fast car it would be a little shitbox honda with a b18 tag motor swap, a good buddy of mine has that set-up and it is nuts. but then again, i drive a truck.

[CJM]

i love old american cars, i would kill to have one and do it up for show, but if i was to make a cheep fast car it would be a little shitbox honda with a b18 tag motor swap, a good buddy of mine has that set-up and it is nuts. but then again, i drive a truck.


Ah but the trick with the hondas is it needs to be RWD or the stupid cv shafts will bust with to much power.

I would love an old muscle car too, but I want to redo the suspension with front coilvers and antisway bars for the rear and such.

[Tankota]

Cheap, FAST, old (no smog), handles like a sports car..... My '73 Datsun 240Z does it all. Independent suspension all around, rear wheel drive, 2300lbs, 150HP 2.4L I6 (lots of potential)! :tongueout:

A friend of mine is building a 440HP turbo Z car right now. Talk about an M3 killer, actually would be hard to find anything on the road faster than that car!


I will always have a softspot for American Muscle sports cars though. I would love to have my Dad's first car some day too, it was a '67 GTO convertable with a 400CID big block. :drool:

[paddlenbike]

Ah but the trick with the hondas is it needs to be RWD or the stupid cv shafts will bust with to much power.

I would love an old muscle car too, but I want to redo the suspension with front coilvers and antisway bars for the rear and such.


And that's exactly why I think the Supras offer one of the biggest bangs for the buck. They already have the good stuff like alumimum IFS/IRS, ABS, 4 wheel disc brakes and an efficient high tech motor, but they have incredible drivetrain strength, crashworthiness and I proved you can make 430 hp on just over $1,000 worth of parts. They do weigh about 450 pounds more than the M3s, Vettes and 370Zs, but they are a fraction of the cost and they can be lightened significantly. Heck, the driver's seat weighs nearly 80 pounds because it has four electric motors for forward/back, recline, lumbar support and my favorite, the electric bolster adjustment. A set of Honda S2000 seats fixes that problem and retains some level of comfort.

[CJM]

WHat did ya do to make that power with the mods, turbo or super?

As for fast import cars, the 240 is an excellent platform as well. Knew someone that did the swap for the turbo whatever engine it is, he KILLED anything after he was done and made like 300hp to the wheels.

I always wanted the older less desirable supra (pre 93 is it?) to make into a fast, sleeper. One thing is for certain tho-no replacement for displacement like my vette.

[DHC6twinotter]

The supra is a great car, and has huge power potential. Even just basic mods on the 2jz motors can give a nice power increase. I also really like the '93+ MR2 Turbo. Buddy of mine up in VA has had 3 of them, and his latest was putting out about 380hp (IIRC) at the crank. He also did an SR20det and 5spd swap on his friends 240 convertible. Both were sweet cars.

[paddlenbike]

WHat did ya do to make that power with the mods, turbo or super?



The recipe is:
-rebuilt stock Toyota CT26 turbo with a Garrett 60-trim compressor wheel
-Mazda RX7 550 cc injectors, used, balanced and cleaned
-Walbro or twin turbo Supra fuel pump
-Boost controller of some sort (even an inexpensive one is fine)
-3" turboback exhaust.

These parts are the replacement for displacement. 430 hp and 470 ft lbs of torque, dyno tested.

[CJM]

NICE!!! I may have to do this!

[DHC6twinotter]

The recipe is:
-rebuilt stock Toyota CT26 turbo with a Garrett 60-trim compressor wheel
-Mazda RX7 550 cc injectors, used, balanced and cleaned
-Walbro or twin turbo Supra fuel pump
-Boost controller of some sort (even an inexpensive one is fine)
-3" turboback exhaust.

These parts are the replacement for displacement. 430 hp and 470 ft lbs of torque, dyno tested.



Paddlen, I'm assuming this is a 7mgte motor since you have the CT26 turbo? Any idea how a CT20b turbo would compare?

[paddlenbike]

The CT20(b) turbo was used on the 3s-gte 4 cylinder, so it would have a smaller wheel on the compressor side. I assume the exhaust turbine would be smaller too, but I'm not sure about that.

I remember there being something weird about the CT20b. Isn't the exhaust side of that turbo cast as one peice with the exhaust manifold?

EDIT: Found my dyno video. (898 kb) (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/Supra-vids/ken-dynovid.WMV)

And here is my build video. (7.7MB) (http://home.off-road.com/~kemanuel/Supra-vids/paddlenbike.wmv)

:thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

[corax]

Cheap, FAST, old (no smog), handles like a sports car..... My '73 Datsun 240Z does it all. Independent suspension all around, rear wheel drive, 2300lbs, 150HP 2.4L I6 (lots of potential)! :tongueout:


:drool: - I searched for a 240,260 or pre'78 280Z for almost 2 years when I lived in Virginia and couldn't find a single one without rotted floorboards/front stub frame . . . once I get into a place with a garage, I may start looking again though -- got pics of your Z?

[Tankota]

Cheap, FAST, old (no smog), handles like a sports car..... My '73 Datsun 240Z does it all. Independent suspension all around, rear wheel drive, 2300lbs, 150HP 2.4L I6 (lots of potential)! :tongueout:


:drool: - I searched for a 240,260 or pre'78 280Z for almost 2 years when I lived in Virginia and couldn't find a single one without rotted floorboards/front stub frame . . . once I get into a place with a garage, I may start looking again though -- got pics of your Z?


I dont really have any pics yet, but I gonna take some. I think I might even make an off topic build thread when I really start working on it. They're great little cars!

[paddlenbike]

An acquaintance of mine has a 240Z with a Toyota 2JZ-GTE. To use the line from the video that is the subject of this thread, it will "punch a hole through a wet napkin." :D

[Tankota]

Damn that would be a fast car. The later twin turbo models of that engine had something like 320hp.

[corax]

Damn that would be a fast car. The later twin turbo models of that engine had something like 320hp.


and if you've never seen, can be build upwards of 1000hp (I think I saw an article with a 2JZGTE stroked to 3.4L pushing 1,400 hp - My favorite YouTube Supra video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piEjJMOEDs))

[Whitey]

A friend of mine is building a 440HP turbo Z car right now. Talk about an M3 killer, actually would be hard to find anything on the road faster than that car!

Hate to be a party pooper, but since you live in SoCal., you could probably swing a 9 iron and hit a car that would crush a 440hp Z.
Are you familiar with Darius Khashabi's Z? It's changed quite a bit since this video (widebody, more power, etc...)
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Darius-240Z-Long-Version_53462.htm

[Tankota]

Damn that would be a fast car. The later twin turbo models of that engine had something like 320hp.


and if you've never seen, can be build upwards of 1000hp (I think I saw an article with a 2JZGTE stroked to 3.4L pushing 1,400 hp - My favorite YouTube Supra video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piEjJMOEDs))


That is awesome!!! I hadn't seen that before.

I found the video of this same shootout but from the supra's side.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RM1sGPwVSrU&feature=related

[Whitey]

Damn that would be a fast car. The later twin turbo models of that engine had something like 320hp.



and if you've never seen, can be build upwards of 1000hp (I think I saw an article with a 2JZGTE stroked to 3.4L pushing 1,400 hp - My favorite YouTube Supra video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-piEjJMOEDs))


Since we're on the topic, here is a Supra with a completely reasonable, almost stock turbo upgrade.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VAo4N_nt1mI
(Watch the third pull...)

[Tankota]

A friend of mine is building a 440HP turbo Z car right now. Talk about an M3 killer, actually would be hard to find anything on the road faster than that car!

Hate to be a party pooper, but since you live in SoCal., you could probably swing a 9 iron and hit a car that would crush a 440hp Z.
Are you familiar with Darius Khashabi's Z? It's changed quite a bit since this video (widebody, more power, etc...)
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Darius-240Z-Long-Version_53462.htm


440hp in a 2300lb car is hard to beat. Maybe if you live in Malibu or something. Not everyone in SoCal drives a Lambo. :tongueout:

Yea I've see some vids of that car before. Talk about awesome...

[CJM]

One thing is for certain, although I enjoy having mucho hp and tq under the hood of a very light fun, import. Its more fun to have a nice big block V8 chevy and the absolute power it puts out. Sure the car dont handle worth a poo and its heavy as hell, but man the V8 makes such sweet sounds.

A friend of mine had a 72 chevelle we played with back in HS, he slapped a worked 396 into it and we tuned her up with soem aftermarket suspension goods, fuel upgrades and changed the trans to a 4 speed.

I tell you what that tatta, tat, tatta sound cars like that make at idle is sweet. No one thinks you have much besides a stock car till you floor it..

[DHC6twinotter]

The CT20(b) turbo was used on the 3s-gte 4 cylinder, so it would have a smaller wheel on the compressor side. I assume the exhaust turbine would be smaller too, but I'm not sure about that.

Yeah, my friend that had a turbo MR2 removed his CT26 and replaced it with a CT20b. It was noticeably quicker, and seems to be a cheap upgrade for some good, cheap increase in power. I know his '93 MR2 with a CT20b, Spearco intercooler, manual boost controller at 17psi, and KO exhaust was able to pull away easily from slightly modified STis. His other MR2 with a similar setup and a 50 trim T3/T4 turbo at 16psi was even quicker. Even though he was putting out 380 at the crank, he said a better exhaust would have helped more.

I don’t know much about these turbos, so I called my buddy and asked about it. He said the CT26 used on the MR2s were actually a slightly different CT26 than is used on the 7mgte. Apparently the difference is in the exhaust side, in which case the 7mgte CT26 has a larger exhaust turbine. The CT20b has a bigger compressor side than the MR2 CT26. I forgot to ask about the exhaust side. But from what he was saying, because the 7mgte CT26 is different than the MR2’s CT26, a CT20b upgrade on a 7mgte would not be much of an upgrade, and probably not worth it. He had forgotten the specs for a 7mgte CT26, so I guess I’m still clueless and all of this probably didn’t help anything. Sounds like pretty much what your thoughts were. I dunno…this stuff is confusing…lol.



I remember there being something weird about the CT20b. Isn't the exhaust side of that turbo cast as one piece with the exhaust manifold?


I also asked him about the CT20b exhaust manifold. The difference is that both the CT26 and CT20b that came on the MR2 were twin entry turbos, and had a small divider separating the exhaust entry. This divider could be easily removed with a dremel, although he didn’t specify how this would be beneficial. The CT26 and CT20b were interchangeable on the MR2s and the CT20b was pretty much a bolt on upgrade.

This thread has gone so far off topic. :laugh:

Anyways, just my $.02 based on the little I know about turbos.

[DHC6twinotter]

but man the V8 makes such sweet sounds.

I tell you what that tatta, tat, tatta sound cars like that make at idle is sweet. No one thinks you have much besides a stock car till you floor it..


I'll agree with that. Nothing much comes close to the sounds of a big block with cam. I will say that Lances exhaustless 4.7 sounded really awesome though, and probably came close. The 2jz has a nice sound too.

[CJM]

Speaking of exhausts, my old 93 3.0 camry the motor mount went and it sheared the exhaust where it connects to this flex pipe. The increase in power was marginal but noticeable, driving it home was awesome tho, drivers kept looking at me like WTF???

[paddlenbike]

Domestic V8s don't impress me. Even late model Vettes have a disappointing top end, they feel too much like a truck motor to me. I like the feeling of a linear power increase all the way to a 7,000 or 8,000 RPM redline with no falloff, thanks to a lack of pushrods.

[Tankota]

One thing is for certain, although I enjoy having mucho hp and tq under the hood of a very light fun, import. Its more fun to have a nice big block V8 chevy and the absolute power it puts out. Sure the car dont handle worth a poo and its heavy as hell, but man the V8 makes such sweet sounds.


I know what you mean. Even with all the boost numbers and the high strung HP, nothing can touch the feeling of driving a big flush-toilet-fed V8 with a cam and headers. Thats where you really feel like you have a heard of wild horses under the hood. :clap:

[CJM]

I know what you mean. Even with all the boost numbers and the high strung HP, nothing can touch the feeling of driving a big flush-toilet-fed V8 with a cam and headers. Thats where you really feel like you have a heard of wild horses under the hood. :clap:


I think its the sound and the torque more than anything. Push the skinny pedal and get thrown back into your seat.

[Osiris]

I've got 4 Z's. I love all the Z's. My 9 year old son is helping me with one '87 300 turbo that he wants as his when he can drive. We are redoing the interior to all black with 350Z seats and put on some 350Z wheels. We are going to fix up the IC pipe routing and upgrade to 450cc DSM blue FIs and probably go bigger on turbo with the Holset. We should be able to make 300-350 hp reliably.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr341/LuZZifer/IMG_1502.jpg

Also, I have an '84 300ZX. It was the 8th one made off the assembly line. It is my race car and has a full Nascar style roll cage through out. I will build up that motor to 550+ hp and it shouldn't be too hard considering the VG motors could make 800-1000 in race form.

http://i498.photobucket.com/albums/rr341/LuZZifer/IMG_1503.jpg

Also, the VG motor is torquey like a V8. It can make just as much torque as HP, but all the torque comes up at lower RPMs and accelerates like a V8. It is a strong motor.

[Whitey]

I've owned 2 Z32's, a '90NA and a 91TT. What kind of racing do you do with your Z?
I don't know if you're talking about the VG from the z32 or z31, but saying they can do 800-1000hp is really stretching it. Anything can make big numbers in "race form", meaning they are constantly being torn down and rebuilt.

[Osiris]

I was speaking of the Z31 VG motor. Yes, 800-1000 is stretching it and that is what they were doing in the IMSA era with BSR, but that is with $50,000+ in the motor. That is why I said I was going to build it to 550+ and that should not be too far out because of what it could do under a full proper and unlimited build. I have an extra motor to have broken down and rebuilt while racing the other one.

I want to do HPDE and time trials in the NASA race series.

[Whitey]

The thing I hated about my TTZ is that it has the tightest engine bay I've ever seen. I assume the Z31 had the same problem.
550hp out of a 200hp(stock) engine sounds very expensive. Are you going with new pistons and rods?

[Osiris]

The stock parts can actually make up to 350 hp with turning up the boost to 12 psi on the turbo. You're maxing out there and have to tune it properly to make sure you don't blow it up. From there you can upgrade the fuel pump, MAF to Z32, Q45 or Ford Cobra, turbo, FMIC, Injectors & fuel rails, exhaust, Nistune programable ECU. The bottom end is extremely strong just like the VG30DETT. The Nistune is for the street car which will be in the 400+ range, but the race care is going to go megasquirt with a trigger wheel off the crank and just manage fuel and fire.

There will be more room in the engine bay. All the crap that is not needed is gone which is half of what is in there. Here is the best pic of the engine bay, but it has quite a bit of room.

http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh109/kurteslick/frloose.jpg