tips for buying a vehicle that doesn't run

[Seanz0rz]

so im looking at starting a new project vehicle, you will hear all about it when i get it. in the mean time i hope you could help me with some buying advise.

now ive only purchased running vehicles in my life, so i knew what to look for there. but what about vehicles that dont run? most of the project vehicles im looking at dont have a working battery/starter, bad fuel injection parts, etc. what should i look for in these cars to help me from getting a bad vehicle? i know i am going to have to put some money into the vehicle, but i would like to not buy one with an serious problem unknown to me.

so id like some input in these specific areas:

brakes
clutch
transmission (4spd manual)
engine (do i turn the fan to see if its seized?)

i obviously know about checking for common rust spots, etc. i plan on doing the bare minimum to get the vehicle road worthy and then slowly redoing systems like the brakes, fuel injection (or carbs), wiring, etc.

so what are your experiences buying a non operational vehicle? id like to keep this general enough for anyone buying any model vehicle. id also like to avoid being a "tire kicker".

[mastacox]

I'd probably look for leaks anywhere I could, check fluids in whatever was practical (like the engine oil, tranny fluid, etc.), feel if the clutch works, feel if the brake pedal has feel, inspect driveline components, and so on.

If the engine is shady, as in you're not 100% sure it can be fixed, I would budget for the price of a running used engine, and then if you end up being able to fix the engine it came with so much the better. In my experience, old cars that don't run (and especially ones that haven't run in a while) can go one of two ways; either you'll be able to spend $100 on it and it will drive, or you'll basically have to replace everything on it :roll:

[4runnerchevy]

Don't turn the fan, its probably clutch driven. Do a compression check, to see if your cyl's/ valves are in good shape. If there is a question about bad compression (wether its the valves or cylinder, do an oil check to eliminate the cylinders). Check for a manual (FSM or the like) in the truck, look at the greasy pages to find out what has been worked on.

[4x4mike]

Are you buying a beater? If it's a big old ugly car I'm going to be jealous.

I guess my only advice would be bring a trailer with a winch.

Without knowing what type of vehicle it's kind of hard to help. Do you know why it doesn't run? Does the PO know anything about it? What year is it?

I have no personal experience but things can be tough in CA. Does it need to be smogged? Does it have non-op tags? When was the last year it was registered? I have heard stories of people who buy cars and find out there is a bunch of back DMV bills, etc.

I thought you didn't have monies and were busy with school. Buying another project?

[Seanz0rz]

got a small infusion of cash to buy a new commuter. unfortunatly it was REALLY small. and its not a big old ugly car, its a small, cute, old car. hahaha.

car im buying is pre 75 so no smog. previous owner says "a problem with the fuel injection" its mechanical so... worst i do is swap to carbs. as for DMV fees, PO is looking into that but i believe its current or only 1 year of delinquency. im going to look at it friday. if i like it and it ends up being a reasonable price, ill drag it home and post up about it on here.

as for the ANOTHER PROJECT?! part, yeah, another project. ive been working my ass off, and while i love my 4runner, i kinda need something else to concentrate on for the time being. i need a DD (the 4runner is killing me on gas and such) and id like something i can keep running with bailing wire, duct tape and RTV.

[4runnerchevy]

i need a DD (the 4runner is killing me on gas and such) and id like something i can keep running with bailing wire, duct tape and RTV.


Yes ! :thumbup: Duct tape, RTV and bailing wire.

[tulsa_sr5]

Have the owner sit behind the wheel with you in the passenger seat. Have him make vroom vroom sounds to approximate how it sounded when it was running. Listen for any miss at idle or knocking sounds. Coughing and wheezing are bad too.

hth

[CJM]

I wouldnt buy a non running car honestly. If you must, check for obvious signs of leaks and such.

[4runnerchevy]

Ok ! Out with it! What are you buying ? If its 75 or earlier, I am interested.

[Seanz0rz]

lets just say ill have the better part of the axis powers sitting my driveway soon...

[4runnerchevy]

Ok its a cheap piece of crap, cause the better part of axis powers would be american. It sounds like a gem to me. Just post it up in the section "Not Toyota, Please Help" ! :flipoff:

Really, don't be ashamed, I post up non Toy stuff all the time.

[tulsa_sr5]

it's a bug isn't it? wait, you said EFI. I'm getting sucked in, what is it???

[fustercluck]

Axis powers were Germany, Italy, Japan...with efi means German if the vehicle is old... So you must have gotten a Porsche...

[Seanz0rz]

back on topic...

any other tips from people who have purchased non running vehicles?

[YotaFun]

Axis powers were Germany, Italy, Japan...with efi means German if the vehicle is old... So you must have gotten a Porsche...


LOL!
If he got a Porsche then my VW in the drive way is a Lambo

[slosurfer]

Have the owner sit behind the wheel with you in the passenger seat. Have him make vroom vroom sounds to approximate how it sounded when it was running. Listen for any miss at idle or knocking sounds. Coughing and wheezing are bad too.

hth


Best idea so far!!!! :flipoff:

I guess the best will be to get as much info about the vehicle as possible. Receipts, etc... can tell a lot about it.

[paddlenbike]

Look for all the things you would normally look for, but you have the huge disadvantage of not being able to test drive the car. You won't be able to tell by looking at the car if the clutch slips, brakes are weak/warped/pulls to one side, the suspension bushings could be shot, steering parts worn, etc. These things are difficult to reveal without the drive.

If you want a project, fair enough. If you're going to green sticker it with no insurance, now you're starting to get me excited. If you're trying to save money, I can't imagine how you would save anything at all here. Even the weakest 4 cylinder cars from the pre-74 era are not very fuel efficient. My guess is you'll spend FAR more on additional insurance, registration and REPAIRS that you will ever save in fuel.

The fact of the matter is you will still drive your 4Runner more than you think, and you need to figure that into your math when you calculate fuel savings.

[DHC6twinotter]

Can't wait to see this project get started! :king:



...id like something i can keep running with bailing wire, duct tape and RTV.


At one point or another, I've kept my 4Runner running with duct tape, RTV, and a stick. Never tried bailing wire though. :hillbill:

[Seanz0rz]

oh i am fully aware this thing will be a money pit, i just want something that is easy to drive around town, get me from point a to b, and isnt a corolla (nothing wrong with them, i actually love them, i just want something different than an econobox)

i will still drive my 4runner alot. that fact is the only reason im allowing myself to buy another vehicle. if i thought id never drive the 4runner again, id be dropping this money into a rear bumper or something!

[4runnerchevy]

For a devoted wheeler, a second vehicle is a must. It lets you do major rehabs, mods and changes to your Runner, and still get to work, or parts run..

[DHC6twinotter]

For a devoted wheeler, a second vehicle is a must. It lets you do major rehabs, mods and changes to your Runner, and still get to work, or parts run..


I agree. I don't even wheel my 4runner, but as many miles as it has, it sure would be nice to have a dd when I'm fixing stuff. :D

[04 Rocko Taco]

Sean, I agree with the few that have said if you are searching for a reliable cheap fuel efficient DD that this is not the place to look.

As far as a new project car, I am pysched. Check as many fluids as possible, as the condition of the fuids may give you a peek into the maintenance habits of the PO. As far as any specific car, try to find an enthusiast group online or locally, and then ask the what common problems there are with those cars, and check for those also, in addition to all the things mentioned above.

[Seanz0rz]

ok so i want your guy's advise on this, besides RUN!

so in my conversations with the seller, i have found out that as far as CA DMV is concerned, the previous owner still owns the car. the seller never registered it when he bought it 5 years ago. the title was lost before he bought it, and he had planned on getting it registered and title transferred over and whatnot. when he got it back on the road, which never happened. (i found all this out tonight) he gave me the name and phone number of the PO (which happens to be his life long friend)

so here is my plan, and here's where id like the advise: im going to call DMV tomorrow and explain my situation and see what they say. beyond that, im going to call the legal owner and explain the situation. basically i will be legally buying the vehicle from him, but paying the guy selling the vehicle to me. in talking with the current "owner", we have decided that drawing up a bill of sale with the current legal owner's name on it. i will be "buying" the vehicle from the legal owner, and he will have to sign the (new) title handing the vehicle over to me. does this sound good to you guys? any tips? etc?

obviously i can walk away at any time. i have no money invested in this. but, i really like the car, and i feel that its a really good deal, even with these DMV hurdles. obviously ill know more tomorrow on whether or not i need to run based on the legal owners response, etc. its not like the guy is trying to take me for $30,000. im paying less than 1k for the car.

thanks for the help.

[Seanz0rz]

as a response to the posts above:

yeah i know its not going to be as cheap as just driving the 4runner. i will have to put a bit of money into it to get it to be a reliable vehicle.

big reason for this is with a dedicated daily driver, i can wheel the 4runner more, and harder. i will no longer have to rely on it to get me to school or work come monday.

[RunnerUp]

if you can work out the DMV hurdles without paying an assload then i dont see any issues.

[slosurfer]

Sounds like you're doing the best thing and researching the DMV aspect. I would even go so far as to double check everything you hear from one person at DMV with another person at DMV. Also, make sure you get the name of whomever you speak to at DMV, that way later, if something comes up with another person at the same DMV, you can say exactly who gave you the info you were given.

One other tip, if the original owner is a female and the title is in her maiden name. Have her sign it using her maiden name. I had an asshole at DMV who wasn't going to let me register Vanna due to the lady signing her legal married name on the title when it was still in her maiden name. I had to go to a "manager" and she said it's just easier to have them sign it with there maiden name. :shake: That same asshole was trying to tell me that I would get a ticket for removing the seats in the van or if I had tools/materials in the van. I asked him about all the minivans in the home depot parking lot on the weekend with seats removed and husbands loading them up with tools/supplies. He said, "It's illegal, I guess the police just don't care to enforce it." :roll: This was like a 5 min conversation as well and he was balking at registering it due to me being a self employed contractor. :asshat:

Sean, sorry for the rant. Moral of the story, do your homework like you're doing. I actually have had good experiences at our local DMV, but if my number gets called again and I get that guy, I will try to make his experience with me a living hell. :flipoff:

[Seanz0rz]

should i call my local dmv? or the general number for the (i believe) state office?

[Seanz0rz]

ok so heres an update: basically the legal owner has to have a notarized signature on the form for requesting a new title.

i decided that i shouldnt have to do any of that work and put it back on the seller, telling him that once he gets his crap in order, ill look at buying the vehicle.

in the mean time, im going to look at another one tomorrow, one i think i actually like better. it needs a bit more work, and the body is kind of rough, but i think i can tackle it! ill keep you guys posted on the outcome. i also might post a wiki article on buying an old, non running car after all this is done!

[slosurfer]

Yeah, definately make the seller do the work. That way, if it isn't as sketchy as it sounds, he'll make it good.

I would call the general number, April has just taught me that it is important to get their name and even extension, anything that you can point to in case you call back and someone tells you otherwise. Same goes for if you go in and deal with one person and have to come back. Keep track of who you talked to. :)

[Seanz0rz]

so the saga continues:

i advise him on what he and his buddy need to do to sell me the car:



So heres the deal with the DMV. Neil will have to print (or pick up) this form: http://dmv.ca.gov/forms/reg/reg227.pdf fill it out, and have it notarized, instructions found here: http://dmv.ca.gov/vr/vr_info.htm#BM2522 Once that happens, and you have the signed title in hand, i can purchase the car from you. as far as dmv is concerned, neil is transfering the vehicle to me, but i will need a bill of sale from you, and one between you and neil (for a dollar or whatever, just to show that it wasnt a gift).

honestly, i dont have the time or energy to do the leg work on this one. i have another set of midterms coming up, and another set of projects, in addition to normal course and family work. Neil is your friend, and unless you want to cut a few hundred off the price of the car, im going to let you deal with this. So im thinking this weekend is out. let me know when you get that paperwork sorted out, and ill come take a look.

thanks,
Sean


he replies:



OK that will take some time though.
Here is what I will do. If you agree, I will accept $750 this weekend and I will start the process by printing and sending the form to Neal.
As soon as he gets me the title I will get it to you.
I would guess this whole thing will take 7-8 weeks. If that is fine with you, then come on out Saturday.

and my final reply:

I cannot take possession of a vehicle that I do not legally own. You are going to have to get this title problem straightened out for the buyer, whether that is me or not. Let me know when that happens. It is a very nice vehicle, and once this is straightened out you should have no problem selling it to me or anyone else. I feel terrible passing up what I think is a really killer deal (even at 1k, even with the DMV fees), but I just don't feel right about taking a vehicle that i don't own.

-Sean

so i hope i handled that well. i dont want to take delivery of a vehicle that i dont own, only to have them come by and say that i stole it from them, with no proof other than a bill of sale (probably written on the back of a napkin) that i purchased the vehicle legally. let me know your thoughts on the deal.

[4x4mike]

Dude, what kind of vehicle is it? It would have to be a KILLER deal or a really sweet ride for me to deal with all of this.

[slosurfer]

Haha, 7-8 weeks haha, yeah right!!!! He probably said that when he first bought it and never transfered the title.

Definately doesn't sound like the hassle unless they get their paperwork done.

[Seanz0rz]

yeah, basically if they have the paperwork, no problem. but im not waiting for a title in the mail thats never going to come. then what?

as for what it is, im going tomorrow to look at another, and as long as that guy doesnt have his head up his butt like the previous 2 (yes, twice now ive dealt with backed dmv fees and less than cooperative sellers, non-op your vehicles people!), then ill probably buy it. i know for the price and the age, im not going to get something in mint condition, but i also dont want a piece of swiss cheese passed off as a car. ill keep you posted!

i really hope i find one soon, im getting sick of dealing with these people!

[slosurfer]

It's a Karman Ghia isn't it? :thumbup:

[Seanz0rz]

nope!

[YotaFun]

I know what it is... but I am not going to tell.
Someone can try and bribe me, but I aint gonna tell.

All I can say is its gonna be a sweet ride.
And is def Sean's style.

[DHC6twinotter]

Yup! I'm looking forward to this. :D

[Nick]

It's a Karman Ghia isn't it? :thumbup:


He gave it away in another thread, it's an F....

[DHC6twinotter]

He gave it away in another thread, it's an F....


Sean's buying a Ford?

[slosurfer]

It's a Karman Ghia isn't it? :thumbup:


He gave it away in another thread, it's an F....


Hmmmm...... I have an idea and it ends in "at" :thumbup:




All I can say is its gonna be a sweet ride.
And is def Sean's style.


Well, if you put it this way, I'm guessing it could be this sweet ride. (http://flickr.com/photos/k0re/105397657/in/photostream/) :D

[DHC6twinotter]

Hmmmm...... I have an idea and it ends in "at" :thumbup:


Ford F150 Lariat?

[Seanz0rz]

rofl this is hilarious having people guess... hahahaha. chris, should i tell april that you have that picture on hand? i think she would like to know...

anyway, went to look at one today, hadnt been registered since '99. (wtf is wrong with you people?). the rockers were more holes than metal...the floor under the driver seat was falling through. pretty rough. no thanks, even for the killer price he was willing to take for it.

keep looking i guess... hahaha. going to call on some others tomorrow or monday.

[Nick]

J....

[DHC6twinotter]

J....


Well, if that was the case, that would be awesome. I always liked Jaguars. :thumbup:

[Seanz0rz]

wish i was buying a jag... e-type ftw!!!

[Whitey]

This is going to take as long as it took to design those antenna mounts isn't it...

[surf4runner]

dunno if you got all the DMV schenanigans squared away.
if the vehicle is not current in its reg(non-op qualifies), then the new owner is $$$ responsible for it, incl penalties.
i got screwed there. the PO took it out of non-op for 2 years, i was responsible for the fees (they did waive the peanlities) but i was still mad. the seller left the state too.
got it running in 2 days.
the DMV takes 7-8 weeks to process a title that is out of the system, replacement title should only take ~3 weeks.


i bought a non-running vehicle (from a member here) that sat for 10 yrs.

buy(pay) it for whats its worth, in case you have to unload it.
dont worry about the drive train, as its likely the cause of it sitting. plan on replacing it along with all rubber and hydraulic lines.
if it can be fixed & running cuz it had a clogged fuel filter, BONUS!

[Seanz0rz]

yeah i know ill be responsible for the dmv fees.

im not sure why it would take 7-8 weeks for them to get their crap together. ALL they have to do is get the paperwork notarized. that should only take a day! then i have to wait for the title (after i turn that paperwork into the dmv, as the new owner, sold with out a title from the legal owner)

i know im not going to find a perfect vehicle for this price range. i guess backed dmv fees come with the territory. im just wondering why no one (including the guy i talked to today) has their paperwork in order to sell a car. when i sold my honda, i had the title, bill of sale, everything required to make it go smoothly, same with my 4runner purchase, PO had everything in order. i guess i just dont understand. if you were motivated to sell it, wouldnt that be ready to go.

as for the brackets, if you want one, PM me. i thought all interest went out the door with the crap economy.

[Nick]

. im just wondering why no one (including the guy i talked to today) has their paperwork in order to sell a car. when i sold my honda, i had the title, bill of sale, everything required to make it go smoothly, same with my 4runner purchase, PO had everything in order. i guess i just dont understand. if you were motivated to sell it, wouldnt that be ready to go.


I'm with you on this one - I think since the vehicles aren't bound to sell for much, the people seem to think the paperwork isn't worth the trouble or something. I've looked at several beaters and people claim to have either lost the title or have it out in someone else's name. However, it seems like California has a LOT more registration related nonsense then NY does, and that therefore would complicate things quite a bit for you.

[Seanz0rz]

so tony finally guessed it, he gets a cookie or something next time i see him. now no spillin the beans until i post pictures!

going to look at another tomorrow, this guy actually has the title and its currently registered! so well see how that goes. might end up spending more than i wanted, but i think its a pretty solid vehicle from the pictures and info from the seller. ill have to investigate further tomorrow.

[Seanz0rz]

i swear... these people are morons.

one i was suppose to look at today neglected to mention in the ad or the 10 emails back and forth that the car is an automatic. usually something you mention in an ad, especially an ad for a car that 75% of the time is stick...

i assumed it was stick, but started having doubts when i saw a transmission dip stick poking out of the back of the engine compartment.

[strykersd]

He gave it away in another thread, it's an F....




Hmmmm...... I have an idea and it ends in "at" :thumbup:


Fiat?

[Whitey]

i swear... these people are morons.

one i was suppose to look at today neglected to mention in the ad or the 10 emails back and forth that the car is an automatic. usually something you mention in an ad, especially an ad for a car that 75% of the time is stick...

i assumed it was stick, but started having doubts when i saw a transmission dip stick poking out of the back of the engine compartment.

Explain to us why HE is the moron, when you didn't ask and incorrectly assumed something that wasn't true.

[Seanz0rz]

its not a fiat... lol.

he should have put that in the ad, as it is a desirable option because so few of the cars were made with it, and so few of them survive in decent condition today. every other ad where it is not specified has been a stick. kind of like, you would assume in an ad for a 1st gen 4runner that it is a non turbo, since thats something you would mention in an ad to bring more interest. i think youd be rather surprised to go look at a vehicle and find it sitting there.

my frustration was not entinly due to that particular seller. ive also come across a number of ads "car for sale. 909-555-5555." gee, thanks guys. just seems like no one tries anymore.

when i sold my honda, i put down everything you could possibly want to know about the vehicle in the poster on the window, and in the craigs ad. mainly because i didnt want to answer 100 emails asking about this or that.

[Whitey]

I agree with you about being a good seller, but I've come to expect nothing from sellers these days. The bait and swith is alive and well, with renewed vigor thanks to craigslist.

[Seanz0rz]

sadly, that wasnt from a craigslist add. ive really tried avoiding it at all cost with this purchase, as im finding some NASTY cars out there that wouldnt last 5 minutes in the classified section on the fan forum of this particular car.

so far, ive pretty much exhausted the current lot of FS cars. i still check the classfieds a couple times a day, but im in no hurry to burn my cash on a POS. if it doesnt feel right, im not buying it. sadly, the best one ive seen so far is the one the guy doesnt have the title for (and the one responsible for most of my posts in this thread). so if he calls, ill likely buy that one.