if your looking at lights you might want to wait a bit

[troyboy162]

ive youve ever looked at the vision-x led light bars, there are some new leds coming in julyish.
http://www.luminus.com/content1519

these will make for some sweet home made lights. id be scared to buy them premade though since the vision-x things are fetching $1500ish.

i cant find it but i think i read these require 12VDC input. that would be perfect for us as we'd only need to regulate the current. so start making friends with CNC machinists and start saving block aluminum and/or large heatsinks. some nice metal reflectors would be handy too.

[Good Times]

wow those specs are pretty crazy. I'd like to know how much that'll cost. Not that I'd ever be able to afford em!

[DHC6twinotter]

Here are some 7" round LED lights that were just released:

http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/GenericView?pageName=/new/PressReleases_en_US/12vLEDHeadlamp.html&storeId=10001&langId=-1

and here: http://www.truck-lite.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=64057&langId=-1

And here is some pictures of them installed on a Jeep:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/editorials/37-vehicles/93-truck-lite-led.html

And a thread over on expeditionportal about these lights:
http://www.expeditionportal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26305&page=3

[troyboy162]

nice! those look good. im in iraq right now(contractor) ill have to check out the mraps. they came out in 07 it sounds like so the leds may not be the brightest.

the cost shouldn't be too bad for the raw parts to make a light out of the cbm-360 led but premade will be a grand or more. id figure those leds will start at $150 a piece then move to $40-$50 as they become available. it should only take 1-2 to make a good light. 3 or more if you wanna show off lol
here is what a guy made with the current high output led's (900 lumins each):
http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=213704
thats pretty damn good for the $240 in materials with his first try on reflectors and led drivers.

[troyboy162]

update to this thread. The CBM-360 LED has not yet been adopted to offroad lights like I thought it would be. A new LED called the Cree XML has been widly accepted for lots of uses though so the price is very cheap. It looks like they are used in the newest Visionx products. In the mean time a few home brew projects have been made with the XML's
http://www.bigjimny.com/index.php?option=com_kunena&func=view&catid=7&id=24433&Itemid=75
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f9/led-offroad-light-bar-3000-lumens-1246091/

the light output on one XML is 900-1100 driven at ~3 amps. A three pack of these would need ~12.6v DC and ~38 watts to produce ~3000 lumins. Thats ~40 USD (not including the housing/heatsink). The issues now is no real good reflectors are made for them so distance is not up to par with what HIDS can achieve. Not to mention HIDS can be had cheap these days.

[troyboy162]

Anyone looking to try a project? I think I may try building a 6 LED light bar. Still there are no optics for HID style through so I dont think a prerunner would be very impressed with anything LED yet.

this forum has all the info needed:
http://forums.mtbr.com/lights-diy-do-yourself/

and this is the style that make the housing cheap enough to consider:
http://bikeled.org/

A modified version of the above housing integrating these heatsinks as the backplain?
http://www.heatsinkusa.com/10-080/

[Seanz0rz]

I am looking for a few good flood lights. that should eliminate the need for optics I would think.

I haven't looked at the specs and I'm on my phone. ill check it out more tonight.

[troyboy162]

heres some info that I have gathered

best driver for three XML's on a vehicles ranging 12V power $5 USD shipped-
http://club.dealextreme.com/forums/Forums.dx/Forum.57779~threadid.890954

modify the driver to only high mode like this:
http://www.hidplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?39191-Nice-automotive-voltage-range-3000mA-Regulator-at-Deal-Extreme/page2&s=961086ec2ab86de84d191f6cf8c997af

optics that fit in the 1" square tube are these ~$2.50 USD each:
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/1375399.pdf

and housing incorporating large heat sinks and this basic design $20-$30 USD:
http://bikeled.org/ConstructionSteps.html

[4x4mike]

Lot's of good info Troy. I've build quite a few LED lights and I think it's cool the high-high power stuff is available and priced well. Not only does it make it available to the little guy but it will also bring LED's mainstream.

Running those LED's at 3 amps is gonna make them HOT. I've had to re-work a project before because of heat. I had a CREE XR-e get to 120* in 30 seconds running at 1 amp.

[troyboy162]

The heat is a huge concern. Even the $1200 LED bars must thermal limit when your not moving since the thermal path of a "visionx prime" to the sink is not very impressive. I do however figure any reasonable heat sink solution I can come up with will require the vehicle moving at least at a crawl pace. Parking for a long time wont be possible, but my 80/100 bulbs already limit me from parking with the lights on.
The mtn bike guys are running minimal fins but also driving them much lower. I am hoping considerably more cooling fins and the higher average speeds of a truck will be enough...

[DHC6twinotter]

Back when I was at the Airventure Airshow in Oshkosh, WI a few years ago, I noticed a lot of the newer planes had LED landing lights. I wonder if some of these could be retrofitted for automotive use?

http://www.aircraftspruce.com/menus/el/ledlighting_landing.html

http://www.aeroleds.com/products/landing-lights/experimental.aspx

Kinda steep on the price though.

[Seanz0rz]

sooooo expensive!

im really going to look into these. i need some good, wide flood lights to use as area lights.

[troyboy162]

the price for home made is good. It will be ~$130 for what VisionX is asking MSRP: $711.25

[troyboy162]

new driver looks nice. drives 4 XML at ~3amps on auto voltages for $15.00
http://kaidomain.com/product/details.S020121

[paddlenbike]

Not bad. I would recommend throwing a capacitor inline before the regulator though. It is rated for 18V max and automotive electrical systems are notoriously spiky. A capacitor would help absorb those and make it last a little longer.

[troyboy162]

I agree. I'll have to break my books out to figure out the minimum value to be reasonabley assured. I'm sure the driver can handle some flucuations but probably not what a auto can spit at it. I am close to ordering the parts for the project. I think it has a pretty good chance of being very good, but the low point is still the optics avalible. Nothing can really mimic the throw of a good hid spot light with LED yet.

XML LED's on stars are going as low as 6 bucks these days. Drivers range $10-$30 for a 3x3 or 8x8 set up. Optics are $.50-$2.50 per LED. Heat sinks are still the wild card and the hinge point of the project.

[paddlenbike]

Are you still considering building a lightbar?

I love seeing new LED products hit the market, but so much of it uses low quality chinese LEDs with awful color. I'm a huge fan of Cree LEDs though and have them spread all over my belongings.

Some of the packaged 1 watt LEDs with simple Carlco optics are bright enough to meet FAA regulations for landing lights on newer aircraft.
http://www.swanairllc.com/resources/IMGP2672.jpg

[troyboy162]

Yeah it stinks. It seems like the chinease are the only ones trying to meet consumer demand and they use 10 year ols leds with marginal results. The 5k light bars have steped up to good leds but will not or can not produce them at reasonable prices. I see them as stobes/nav lights on aircraft now too. Why aviation is adopting them faster then auto is beyond me since componet price is no longer a deal breaker.

[CJM]

If you could build reliable lightbars for a good price Id buy one. My electrical fu isnt strong enough to make something like that myself.

[paddlenbike]

Why aviation is adopting them faster then auto is beyond me since componet price is no longer a deal breaker.


Component price is still a problem. Something like an incandescent domelight, for example, utilizing just two contacts and a $1.50 bulb, and you're done. LED costs $5 per 1W chip plus I'm paying $13 for the driver. (I listed retail prices for both, obviously bulb has a bigger savings, but the relative cost difference is still there.) It's the additional markup beyond retail prices on LED products that is ridiculous.

[slomatt]

I agree. I'll have to break my books out to figure out the minimum value to be reasonabley assured. I'm sure the driver can handle some flucuations but probably not what a auto can spit at it. I am close to ordering the parts for the project. I think it has a pretty good chance of being very good, but the low point is still the optics avalible. Nothing can really mimic the throw of a good hid spot light with LED yet.

XML LED's on stars are going as low as 6 bucks these days. Drivers range $10-$30 for a 3x3 or 8x8 set up. Optics are $.50-$2.50 per LED. Heat sinks are still the wild card and the hinge point of the project.


One source for cheap/free heatsinks is old computers. We just recycled about 30 machines at work and I scavenged a bunch of parts before we sent them out. How many LEDs are you going to to run per light? Do you have an estimate of how much heat sinking capacity you'll need?

- Matt

[troyboy162]

I have a box full of my old ones and they may be used for a experiment. Computer heat sinks would be ideal for 1 or 2 led pods. Ideally Id want at least 6 leds to make it worth my while, but a sacrificial experiment with 3 or less LED's using heat sinks I already have sounds fun and cheap too. It takes 3 XML's to be perceptibly brighter then the average headlight.

Each LED is consuming 10-12 watts so a pack of 3 roughly equals a pentium 4 CPU. Placement anywhere near the grill means airflow even while stopped. I havnt worked the numbers because no calculation can figure in air flow. Even rock crawling we have quite a bit of air movement on the average. Also a XML can work up to 150 C , but it just gives off 20% less light

[Seanz0rz]

I'm looking at either pods of 3 or 4 (which ever works out better for the driver) on my roof rack. idea is to have about 6 or 8 pods up there. i am planning for 0 airflow, so they are probably going to need some fat heatsinks. The good news is my roof rack is aluminum, so I may bond them to the rack with some arctic silver paste (not adhesive) and screw them directly to the rack to aid in heat dissipation.

[troyboy162]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1052847

The Chinese have landed. The issues with the lights is they are using glass covers and the LEDs are not the best, but the price makes these unbeatable. Trailworthyfab is selling them. The company is hunma and another is Aurora. The Aurora ones are a little more expensive and are having customs problems do to ridgids copyright claim. Edit: the auroras are nearly impossibly to find for good reason. They are Identical to ridgid and slightly brighter at a Chinese price. Ridgids copyright claim is completely legit.

http://youtu.be/IXw-8Ad1sm0

[troyboy162]

I keep plastering this post with info and no lights in hand lol. Found this today and if he can meet his price points they may be nice for the money.
http://budgetlightforum.com/node/11104

the details...
1.875?x7.875?x3? weights a little over 3.5lbs
different beam profiles
5100 lumens
"I am shooting for $300 for one $575 For two and $825 for three"

kinda gives you an idea of where these lights should be priced and what kind of performance you should expect from them with modern componets.

[paddlenbike]

I keep plastering this post with info and no lights in hand lol.


The mark-up on LED stuff is still very high. For example, I am building LED fixtures for the family boat. I am running two warm white Cree LEDs in each interior light and three Cree LEDs for exterior lighting. Even at low-volume full retail price, the LEDs cost me around $5 each. I pay around $14 each for the driver, so one completed assembly costs around $24 in parts and a new incandescent housing (the actual boat dome light itself) are $19.99 each. So $45 total per light, including the aluminum stock I use for heatsink, at full retail prices. However, the store-bought LED versions of these lights are between $200-$300 each. Why?
As much as I love LED stuff, I just can't bring myself to pay $300 for an automotive light.

[troyboy162]

I know its nuts. That last link I posted smokes anything you can buy in terms of performance because he's using high end parts. He's got small run printed circuit boards and machined heatsinks...two items that should skyrocket his price. Lumins per lumins he's half the price of ridgid in a package half the size with user replaceable beam pattterns. I'm gonna watch his post and possible try a group by with him since he's already stated discounted with volume. Just to put it out there the Chinese ridgid clone (can't be reliabley imported) was 1/3 the price and brighter. Does assembled in America mean 3 times the price?

I think I have given up on the home build ideas I had due to the chinease lights being so reasonably priced. On the high end side the above light bar is much nicer then I could build and time considered, its not a horrible price

[Seanz0rz]

I am still looking for an affordable LED flood light I can put up on my roof rack. At this point, I'm just waiting for the prices to drop a bit on materials while I save up some cash. I really wish i had access to a mill to make some sweet aluminum housings/heatsinks.

[troyboy162]

Sean there are alot of Chinese ones out there that should be good for the money. The two main players are:
http://www.hanma-auto.com/products/details/170/4/led-led-work-lights/led-work-light-16w

and these guys who are ridgid clones that are not really able to import into the usa

http://www.szaurora.com/1.aspx?id=130

[Seanz0rz]

im not opposed to making my own, but some purchased solutions would be handy. these would basically be area flood lights for camping, night wheeling, loading/unloading, etc.

troy, do you have a link to buy those? or is it just find on ebay and cross fingers?

[troyboy162]

its find on ebay other then the light bars that trailworthyfab.com is selling. the hanma ones are sold under different names and at different prices but the specs are always copy pasted. some of them have glass lenses so those would be best up high

this:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/18W-Car-Boat-Offroad-4x4-ATV-UTV-Truck-Driving-LED-Work-light-Flood-beam-lamp-/320934827341?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4ab934d54d&vxp=mtr#ht_2522wt_830

is almost certainly this:
http://www.hanma-auto.com/products/details/20/4/led-led-work-lights/led-work-light-18w

[paddlenbike]

Does assembled in America mean 3 times the price?



We live in such a litigious society that I am afraid the answer is "yes." People that file illegitimate lawsuits are causing exponential price increases for the rest of us.

[troyboy162]

Cant remember if I linked these on this forum yet but I think I'm in for two when they are done
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/1074455-prototype-billet-led-light-bar-4.html

http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/bigtoy302/003800x533-1.jpg

[Crinale]

I may get in on a couple of those... My truck sorely needs lighting, and those look awesome. How many are you interested in getting Troy?

[troyboy162]

Two at this point. They are too expensive to get any more though I would love to have three

[Good Times]

cool! want to get me one too? ;)

[4x4mike]

I've been waiting for that guy to finish these up. He must be real busy because he's taking his time, even knowing there are people wanting to buy his lights.

I'm still waiting for him to get back to me about the programming. I'd like these lights to be very versatile and that's where the chip comes into play.

[troyboy162]

Got them installed last night. They are all the brightness I expected but they have alot more throw then I figured from the pictures. I may buy two more flood optics ($3) and swap out two more of the spots.

http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/564809_4832740535148_1410471403_n.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

ohh i want so bad!

[troyboy162]

Not after you see the vatozone plastic switch I'm running them off lol. Momentary switches are not plentaful at auto part stores so I guess I'm ordering something more fitting.

[Seanz0rz]

I am not too crazy about a momentary switch for those lights, i much rather have a simple on/off.

[4x4mike]

Awesome. Can you get some close up pics of the housing and where the power cable comes out? I know he was figuring them out. Did you get them programmed or is it just on and off?

[troyboy162]

He has some pictures of all that in his for sale post on pirate. It looks well sealed although I'm not gonna bucket test them like he did. The power cable exits the bottom right hand side.

The momentary is weird but its the only way to let you cycle through the modes. Its based off a flashlight circuit. I got the stock programing and I think its ideal. Short press for hi, short press again for low and long press to turn off. It will also do disco with a long press when off.

Edit: jumped on his site to choose a correct fuse and he has an option so they just turn on with a relay as well. I assume that will kill all mode selection options, but its simple and trustworthy.

[Seanz0rz]

for me, they will be alley lights on the rack. left, right, and rear floods to bathe my surroundings in light, so a simple on/off is all i need. I will likely end up just building my own, but these are pretty nice!

[troyboy162]

I dont want to sound like a fan boy or stiffle a good project but these would make nice side lights at 1200 lumins and hopefully <$100. These are the next light he is making.
http://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o269/bigtoy302/003800x533-3.jpg

[Seanz0rz]

That's more of what I want/need, maybe two of those on each side and one rear. If the price is right, that's what I'll go for. Otherwise, I think I'll try to make my own this summer.

[Jaydee914]

Troy, these didn't replace any standard halogens, did they? I'm looking to possibly add some light up front and could take your old ones off your hands.

[troyboy162]

nope these are my first add on. Razedezert has some good deal ssometimes
http://www.race-dezert.com/classifieds/index.php

[Crinale]

Unfortunately my Motorcycle ate my budget for these :( new tires, and a few parts.. oh well

[troyboy162]

My friend bought some of these 10" bars. Very bright and I think he only paided 150ish eash, but hes friends with the guy. Either way these are on the cheap end of price and on the high end of output.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/lighting-electronics/1278497-led-light-bars-volt-led.html

[troyboy162]

I saw the pods he is selling this weekend and we took one apart to help him answer some customer questions. The pods are well made surprizinly. The circuit board was populated with a lot of extra parts so they are not skimping. It was also thoroughly coated with thermal paste and thats another step that is often skimped on but was not with these.

The light bars are different then normal ones. First off the lenses can be replaced with euro or spot patterns for each LED. They also use an external power supply so they are set up similar to a hid with a ballast. Pretty dang nice!

[troyboy162]

I picked up a 42" light bar this week for stupid cheap from volt led. these are being made dirt cheap these days. A quick google search shows the 42" 240W is a popular Chinese size right now and a value price point. several are on ebay in the $160 range shipped. Volt LED (Chris) sourced some with a poly lens (most cheap ones are glass) and Cree leds instead of the cheapo leds. I'll post pics after its mounted but we tested it last night and it has some really good light output. its about the same at the ~40 inch ridgid I saw once. Of course this is 1/10th the price lol.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/lighting-electronics/1278497-led-light-bars-volt-led.html

[troyboy162]

cheap bright and a huge pain in the ass to mount lol
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/long%20travel/IMG_20140323_143304042_HDR_zps0s2xqln4.jpg
http://i723.photobucket.com/albums/ww234/troyboy162/long%20travel/IMG_20140323_143323611_HDR_zpsyv2nffkw.jpg

[slomatt]

Troy, would you mind sharing roughly what you paid for that light bar? Nice brackets!

- Matt

[troyboy162]

The mounts are good from afar lol. I got a deal from him and I'm trying to find out the retail so I can post that. I'd guess 250ish since the cheap ones are 165 on eBay. His are the basic Chinese with a Cree upgrade, all spot (good for roof mount) and poly lenses. I have not seen that combination, but you may be able to find where he gets them.
Regardless the days of high mark ups are coming to a end finally.

[DHC6twinotter]

Looks awesome, Troy!

[troyboy162]

So i was off by quite a bit but i dont know crap about what the lights are inside. these are for his 3w cree double row bars. He also carries the 10w single row bars but they are usually more since they put out more light per inch.


Pods 109. The pods put out 3200 lumens...
8 inch $119
14 inch 169
32 inch 349
449 for the 41.5 bar. <-- this is the one I got
549 for the 50.

[4x4mike]

It's dark at my house and I'd guess it is at yours as well. We need night shots.

[troyboy162]

I gotta get it out of the garage first (needs shocks) and then figure out how to take a good picture in Manuel mode so it doesn't just adjust for the light
But I'll try

[troyboy162]

this is a epistar 41.5" bar so its a little dimmer, but this video also looks like crap since the camera compensates.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fn2FSgObf-w

[Seanz0rz]

Still haven't received your shocks yet?!

Looking forward to pics!

[troyboy162]

Nope. I called and they hope to have them to me next week since their lathe broke. Pretty much sucks.

[Kryptoroxx]

I bit the bullet on their pods and 7.5" bar over on Volt LED. Looks like good quality stuff or at least better than fleabay. I really learned a lot from this thread. Wish I had time to build them but I just don't have the equipment to really do such a project. Looks like fun.

[troyboy162]

I tried out the 41.5" tonight. Its stupid bright although I don't care for the mounting location. There is a slight glare on the windshield. there is some glare on the end of the hood but that seems to not be a problem.My eyes adjust in a half second but my bumper mounted lights require no such eye adjustment(although they are not as bright so that may be part of it). Its money well spent of course as its brighter then the $500 dollars worth of other lights I have.
If I did it over again I may make sure the roof line cuts the light off of the windshield. Its bright enough that I'd guess it would hurt your eyes a bit no matter what, but I'd bet it would be better.

how are the 7.5" doing?

[4x4mike]

When you say, "If I did it all over again." Do you mean mounting the light? Like if it were mounted further back you'd have the cutoff line in a different location? If not where else can you mount a 41.5" light bar?

[troyboy162]

I think up over the cab would be better. I mounted mine where I have seen others do it. It works, but I bet with a lot of test fitting you could go ovr he cab, have zero glare and 95% of the light down range.

[Seanz0rz]

Put a strip of cardboard on the bottom to block the spill onto the windshield. Figure how much you need then duplicate it with some 1/8 inch abs sheet.

[troyboy162]

thought about that. I'm not sure its worth bothering, but I figured I'd put it out there for forum sake. Its really just a half second to get used to it. I didnt think it would spill down since they are all spot. When i first fired it up i though "hey my windsheild is dirty. SWait, why am i noticing the windsheild" lol. Also it doesn't seem to whisle much up to 60 so far.

[Kryptoroxx]

I tried out the 41.5" tonight. Its stupid bright although I don't care for the mounting location. There is a slight glare on the windshield. there is some glare on the end of the hood but that seems to not be a problem.My eyes adjust in a half second but my bumper mounted lights require no such eye adjustment(although they are not as bright so that may be part of it). Its money well spent of course as its brighter then the $500 dollars worth of other lights I have.
If I did it over again I may make sure the roof line cuts the light off of the windshield. Its bright enough that I'd guess it would hurt your eyes a bit no matter what, but I'd bet it would be better.

how are the 7.5" doing?

I should have it hooked up here soon. I wore everything into my aux box and right now I am up to my elbows in paint. I do have a test rig though so I will see about hooking it up tonight for a test.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I727 using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

hey Sean this guy built exactly what you are talking about. I'm still not sure its annoying me enough to mess with but this would fix it 100%179

[Kryptoroxx]

That's a cool and simple solution to the problem. I like it.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G870A using Tapatalk

[troyboy162]

I went a little extreme on the visor but I really didnt want to do it twice. I know this will interfere with some of the output, but it was bothering me more and more everytime I went out. I'm just hoping for good results tonight and a whistle I can live with.
254

[4x4mike]

That doesn't look too extreme. It actually looks really good.

[Kryptoroxx]

I think it looks good too and not in the slightest extreme. I had completely forgotten you had asked about the 7.5" bar. I think the spot section is great honestly. I used it while I was in Colorado when I needed some extra light down the road. It did the trick. These are the results on the garage door.

http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/912/NCW4cs.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/pcNCW4csj)
http://imagizer.imageshack.us/v2/800x600q90/538/vDXzSb.jpg (https://imageshack.com/i/eyvDXzSbj)

It's not bad for such a short bar. With the roof rack I will add a much larger one when the pocketbook allows for it.

[troyboy162]

looking good! I saw your ditch lights in the other post too and those look great as well. I sure am glad the prices have come down on these things. I went for a test spin last night and its just crazy how much light you can get from them.

The visor works great. Its for sure blocking some of the lower rows light, but without the glare, the perceived light is 150% of what it used to be so its a win. Next time I'd just put it up over the cab. I think this locations popularity is from trophy trucks, but they dont have windshields to create the glare.

[Kryptoroxx]

I am very glad about the prices as well. When I build my roof rack I am going to sample some I found on amazon that go for 40 bucks a pair. Not sure if I will be pleased again or not but those will be mainly for area lighting.

[troyboy162]

now the Chinese copied the baja designs lights that use 10w LEDS. Its kinda sad how the american company's are making the market for them. The typical rigid bars look got diluted so baja offered the deep reflector style. Its got more throw then a typical LED bar, but they charged such a premium that they became a prime target to be undercut. It does not cost 6 times more to assemble this light in america. I wont pretend I have a full grasp on the economics of it all but its 2015... You cant call $100 (its less but thats a round number) bucks worth of parts $1200 without being undercut. Also there is no real R&D in this stuff. The circuits, LEDS, optics, and heat sinks are old technology that's widely understood.

For cost comparison, Rydel fab sold me 120w's of 10w LED stuck to a expensive billet heat sink for $550 about 3 years ago. He had a incredibly small run of circuit boards and housings made in america and still undercut Baja designs current offering watt for watt.

Chinese deep reflector bar
http://www.ebay.com/itm/351176325512

original
http://www.bajadesigns.com/ProductDetail?ItemNumber=463014